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Hi Malcolm,
Ps 68.18f quoted in Eph 4
“You have ascended on high,
You have led captive your captives;
You have received gifts among men.
Even among the rebellious also,
that the Lord God may dwell there”My sense of this verse;
Who are the captives?
We are.
We are useless except we be useful vessels to God.
We are now slaves and bondservants to the Lord and he leads us.
We are equipped soldiers on daily active service, lights in the kingdom of darkness.
We are among the rebellious and the Lord God is our Light dwelling here.
The Shepherd leads us in safe pastures and comforts us with his crook and staff.When did this begin?
When he ascended and sent the Spirit to lead us as gifts to men.Hi Malcolm,
Which dead? The ones in prison surely wait where they are, I would have thought, with everyone saved, for the sound of the archangels voice. What happened to those raised at the time of Jesus death? It does not say but they do not appear later in scripture as Lazarus did..So they are raised from death, those souls came from somewhere, they were raised in their bodies which had before this been separated from them because of death.
I my humble opinion the dead before Christ's resurrection were all captive, all held under the transgression of Adam by the enemy who had won them by default.
Satan is called the god of this world. He is also obviously the lord of the lower domains.Jesus in conquering death and the enemy brought for both the dead and the living freedom from the former oppression. I do not think you can relegate the first half of the resurrection to being only for the living.
Hi Malcolm,
Those in prison seems to relate only to those who were killed in flood does it not?
''who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the time of Noah”Well In the OT I see the children of Israel often in a situation of captivity. Yet God delivered them from their oppresors. They also were sometimes disobedient to God, but they were His firstborn the apple of His eye, He could no more forsake them than He could cut off His own hand.
So I don't see how that arguement has much weight.Hi Malcolm,
Yea all those things are true .
But
“during the construction of the ark”
also seems to specify a time period these men came from does it not?Yes there were two classes of people imprisoned clearly, even as there are those who are presently in the same prisonhouse of death, awaiting the judgements to come.
Some will find mercy I believe, at least to some extent.Hi Malcolm,
Surely the prison is a separate waiting place in sheol from hades and and the bosom of Abraham?
Those in hades in Lk 16 seemed to have no more hope of mercy, while those with Abraham seemed already to have their future secured?.Hi,
This is a question from mercy and a reply made by david in another thread:“If you are right that the JW is the church of God yet a believer dies before having anything to do with the origanization then is he still saved?”
“Does not the scripture say there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous?”
Putting aside the obvious false claim that only JW's are righteous[?],
and as they seek it by their works, and such salvation is only possible through the second resurrection I ask:Is the second resurrection called the resurrection of the unrighteous?
Because there are perhaps many sheep found among the goats too?Here's another twist on things. When I was born again I received new life, but I would not call that a resurrection.
Quite some years ago, about 26 I think, I experienced a death of my sould/identity, after which I experienced a resurrection. That was my first resurrection. I believe I will experience another resurrection when I physically die.
What are your thoughts?
Hi Nick, it happened like this. The Lord approached me one day and asked me if I would surrender my motorbike to Him. It was my prize possession. I said yed Lord. The next evening He approached me again and asked me if I would surrender to Him my family, which I did. This kept on until I had surrendered everything I possessed to Him. Then He approached me again and I just knew He wanted something else from me. I said to Him Lord, I have given you everything, what more do you want? He replied that there was one more thing He required of me. When I asked Him what it was He said it was my identity.
I knew that my identity was the part of me that He foreknew, and I said to Him, Lord, if I give you my identity I will cease to exist. He said yes. The thought of dying like this scared me far more than a physical death. Tearfully I said yes Lord. At that moment I felt myself die and I was no more. Hard to explain that bit, but it was a very real and frightening experience.
The next thing I knew was that I was alive again, but I was different. The Lord showed me a vision. In this vision I saw a fence, much like a farm boundary fence, stretch to the left of me and to the right of me as far as I could see. In front of me there was a crop that stood tall as far as I could see. The Lord said to me that this field before me was like my new relationship with Him, a whole new beginning yet to be explored.
I never did make much progress exploring that field until I asked Him to lead me through it and teach me. My life since then has been way different and my relationship with Him I treasure with every ounce of my being.
Hi Oxy,
Where did you meet him?
What did he look like?
What did he call himself
How did you know it was him?
What witnesses were with you?I was living in Hamilton at the time Nick. I didn't see Him and He didn't call Himself anything, I just knew it was Him. The Spirit bearing witness. The Holy Spirit was the only witness, but the change in my life speaks for itself.
He since took me into Scripture and taught me, showing me that this was what was meant by the Jordan Crossing into the Promised Land.
Well there' certainly a lot more to tell Nick. Was there anything in particular you wanted to know?
I've got a PowerPoint presentation describing it on my page http://www.all4god.net/beyond_pentecost.htm
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