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Mike,
You believe that Jesus was telling his students to feel his flesh and bones and not telling them to touch him to prove he was physical and not non-physical.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 25 2012,02:44) Mike, You believe that Jesus was telling his students to feel his flesh and bones and not telling them to touch him to prove he was physical and not non-physical.
Ksins the body of Christ seems to be the one he died with ,
what about the holes of the spear and the nails ,would those wounds not leak blood or would they all be healed
if yes ;why then would Jesus say to thomas put his hand and fingers in to the wounds
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 25 2012,03:20) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 25 2012,02:44) Mike, You believe that Jesus was telling his students to feel his flesh and bones and not telling them to touch him to prove he was physical and not non-physical.
Ksins the body of Christ seems to the he died with ,
what about the holes of the spear and the nails ,would those wounds not leak blood or would they all be healed
if yes ;why then would Jesus say to Thomas put his hand and fingers in to the wounds
T,Some translators claim the holes were still there but that may be their interpretation.
Since some of the Ancient Greek is not as explicit as the English it is translated into, I do know that by a certain line of translation Thomas on felt with his finger the mark of the nails in Jesus' hands and put his finger on Jesus' side.
Knowing this I am not sure that those injuries had not become scars. Also, I have not looked into the matter that thoroughly.
There is nothing that states his body leaked or lacked blood.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 19 2012,23:02) There was two lines at time and one was Cain's and Eve explicitly called him “a man”, Genesis 4:1 and Scripture starts his bloodline with him, Genesis 4:17. The second line is Seth's which begins with God creating mankind, who he called Adam, Genesis '5:1.
God created adam, male and female.“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 19 2012,23:02) I disagree with concluding that the descriptive title “sons of God” means angels when mentioned in the Pentateuch because it is used so in the book of Job. Elsewhere in the Pentateuch the children of Israel are called the children of the Most High.
Son(s) of God is not an exclusive title. It is usually given to direct creations of God such as Adam, even Jesus who came as a man but was fathered by YHWH. Redeemed man is a direct creation of God also because he is born again of the spirit, born of incorruptible seed.Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you.
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
That which is “born of the flesh is flesh”. God is spirit, and that which is “born of the Spirit is spirit”. Angels are spirits and it is said that we (sons of God) will be like them, (sons of God).
Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.T8,
I believe that those whom either have Jehovah's Spirit or are credited with having it are called the children of God.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 25 2012,05:26) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 19 2012,23:02) There was two lines at time and one was Cain's and Eve explicitly called him “a man”, Genesis 4:1 and Scripture starts his bloodline with him, Genesis 4:17. The second line is Seth's which begins with God creating mankind, who he called Adam, Genesis '5:1.
God created adam, male and female.“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.”
T8,So humans both male and female were created in the image of God. I did not see that before though I believed it.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 24 2012,14:44) Mike, You believe that Jesus was telling his students to feel his flesh and bones and not telling them to touch him to prove he was physical and not non-physical.
I believe just what it says, Kerwin. Jesus told them to touch him and see that he had flesh and bones, things that spirits don't have.Perhaps spirits can be touched but they feel like stone, or bubblewrap, or axel grease.
Either way, I'm not going to read into it what is not there – as it seems you are doing.
Jesus was proving that he was not a spirit. He was not proving that spirits cannot be touched by human hands. Nor was he proving that spirits cannot eat or drink.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 28 2012,04:47) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 24 2012,14:44) Mike, You believe that Jesus was telling his students to feel his flesh and bones and not telling them to touch him to prove he was physical and not non-physical.
I believe just what it says, Kerwin. Jesus told them to touch him and see that he had flesh and bones, things that spirits don't have.Perhaps spirits can be touched but they feel like stone, or bubblewrap, or axel grease.
Either way, I'm not going to read into it what is not there – as it seems you are doing.
Jesus was proving that he was not a spirit. He was not proving that spirits cannot be touched by human hands. Nor was he proving that spirits cannot eat or drink.
Mike,I know the spirit in this case is a ghost and ghosts do not have bodies, though they do have form. I know this because Jesus was proving to them that he was alive and that a ghost is a naked soul and not one that is clothed.
They are not clothed with FLESH AND BONES, Kerwin. Beyond that, you are just speculating.
Paul said that God would not leave the elect naked, even as resurrected spirit beings. He would clothe us, not with flesh and bone, but with a spiritual tent.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 25 2012,05:07) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 25 2012,03:20) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 25 2012,02:44) Mike, You believe that Jesus was telling his students to feel his flesh and bones and not telling them to touch him to prove he was physical and not non-physical.
Ksins the body of Christ seems to the he died with ,
what about the holes of the spear and the nails ,would those wounds not leak blood or would they all be healed
if yes ;why then would Jesus say to Thomas put his hand and fingers in to the wounds
T,Some translators claim the holes were still there but that may be their interpretation.
Since some of the Ancient Greek is not as explicit as the English it is translated into, I do know that by a certain line of translation Thomas on felt with his finger the mark of the nails in Jesus' hands and put his finger on Jesus' side.
Knowing this I am not sure that those injuries had not become scars. Also, I have not looked into the matter that thoroughly.
There is nothing that states his body leaked or lacked blood.
KDoes it not say in scriptures by Thomas that he put his finger IN Christ wounds ???Meaning inside of them
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 28 2012,08:36) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 25 2012,05:07) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 25 2012,03:20) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 25 2012,02:44) Mike, You believe that Jesus was telling his students to feel his flesh and bones and not telling them to touch him to prove he was physical and not non-physical.
Ksins the body of Christ seems to the he died with ,
what about the holes of the spear and the nails ,would those wounds not leak blood or would they all be healed
if yes ;why then would Jesus say to Thomas put his hand and fingers in to the wounds
T,Some translators claim the holes were still there but that may be their interpretation.
Since some of the Ancient Greek is not as explicit as the English it is translated into, I do know that by a certain line of translation Thomas on felt with his finger the mark of the nails in Jesus' hands and put his finger on Jesus' side.
Knowing this I am not sure that those injuries had not become scars. Also, I have not looked into the matter that thoroughly.
There is nothing that states his body leaked or lacked blood.
KDoes it not say in scriptures by Thomas that he put his finger IN Christ wounds ???Meaning inside of them
T,That is how certain translators choose to translate it. The ancient Greek allows for both into/onto or the like. The KJV goes as far as using the word “thrust” where elsewhere it uses “cast”. When a translator has a choice their bias leads them to choose words that are closer to their teachings.
Here is a man that explains the situation. The question he is asked is also well thought out.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 28 2012,07:52) They are not clothed with FLESH AND BONES, Kerwin. Beyond that, you are just speculating. Paul said that God would not leave the elect naked, even as resurrected spirit beings. He would clothe us, not with flesh and bone, but with a spiritual tent.
Mike,There are no resurrected spirit beings but instead there are human beings who have been clothed with Spiritual bodies. I capitalize the s on purpose but Ancient has no capitals. We are taught of soulish man and Spiritual man but even then it is clear neither is a spirit being. The only spirit beings I know of are ghosts and perhaps certain demons.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 28 2012,01:49) There are no resurrected spirit beings but instead there are human beings who have been clothed with Spiritual bodies.
Hmmmm…………Wouldn't a being who is no longer flesh, but clothed with a spiritual body, be a “spirit being”?
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