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@kerwin
I used the NASB.
The phrase “who is in the bosom of the Father” seems to indicate a position of intimacy but I am not sure.It is very interesting to me to see how John 1:18 is so alarming to those who admit that Jesus is called theos as the Word in John 1:1. The early church fathers testified to the Word being called ‘God’ and that the Word was God the Son who became flesh from John 1 and was ‘wisdom’ that was begotten before things were formed on the earth from Prov 8.
It has also been interesting to me that people push the ‘the trinitarians wanted to change the word from son to God’ button. We had a couple of staunch trinitarians on here that relentlessly argued against an ‘only begotten God’ reading of John 1:18 because they wanted the begetting to only be in Mary. I have even seen some of the contemporary trinitarians argue that the word which is translated as ‘only begotten’ means ‘unique’. They don’t have problems with the word being the unique ‘God’ but they have problems with the word being the ‘only begotten’ God. Lol. So, all that to say, it is not a trinitarian ‘bias’ but the bias on all fronts comes out on this verse. One group wants the verse to say ‘only begotten Son’ and one group wants the verse to say ‘only unique God’ and on and on.
The fact is, the word was either ‘God’ or ‘Son.’ It wasn’t both in that particular verse. I believe that the Son is, nevertheless, both the only begotten God and the only begotten Son. He is certainly called ‘theos’ in scripture and Jesus and/or the apostles identified Jesus with the LORD’s descriptions from the OT many times. The Jews identified the ‘Word of God’ with the LORD also as seen in the Targums when they substituted the name LORD where the Hebrew spoke of the ‘Word of the LORD’ many times. He is certainly called ‘son’ in scriptures as well.
Furthermore, plenty of times in the writings of the early church fathers’, you can find them distinguishing between the Father and the Son with the terms ‘unbegotten’ for the Father and ‘begotten’ for the Son.
Still trying to identify the SON OF GOD?
How long, before HE will be found?
Or do you love to play in the pool of water, that is not flowing water?
It has gone stagnant, it is dead water.wakeup.
Yes; Wikipedia will reveal The father and the son to you; not the scriptures.
Happy seeking; keep it up, have faith in wiki.
The scribes shall make you free. The Holy Spirit is of old, not to be cosidered.wakeup.
I used the NASB.
The phrase “who is in the bosom of the Father” seems to indicate a position of intimacy but I am not sure.I agree. Some take it to mean literally inside of God’s bosom.
The NASB is based on the Alexandria text type and that has a connection to Egypt. Egypt itself has the culture I spoke of.
Spock,
You do not have the knowledge you think you do. Abraham
Genesis 11:31Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
31 And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son’s son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram’s wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.
Wikipedia entry on Code of Ur-Nammu
The Code of Ur-Nammu is the oldest known law code surviving today. It is from Mesopotamia and is written on tablets, in the Sumerian language c. 2100–2050 BC.
Wikipedia entry on Abraham
The Bible’s internal chronology places Abraham around 2000 BCE.
The Code of Ur-Nammu has some similarities with the code of Moses that would come centuries later.Is
Is it coincidences that Abraham was placed next to an earlier code or is there a connection?
I have to disagree with one or two of you here.
The ancient texts including the Dead Sea Scrolls show us that our Bibles are pretty accurate. With such a wealth of texts, it is not that hard to spot additions, mistakes, and translational errors. No other books have such a wealth of manuscripts and texts to draw upon.
When these books are copied by scribes and then families of these texts become isolated from each other and copied and copied, you only have to take the latest copies from different families of texts and make comparisons. It is highly unlikely that the same mistakes were made and where there are differences, you usually go back to the earlier copies to see what the truth was.
Bible translators have such a wealth of texts that no other books can compare.
But yes I know that there are doubters. God gave you free will. You can choose to doubt the prophets and the apostles. You are free to listen to YHWH, the serpent, your own ideals, or your anyone else of your choosing. You are free to believe what you want. But be aware that the result of your belief may not work out as you think.
* The Dead Sea scrolls were produced after the OT books were written or rewritten and redacted in Babylon. They just verify what was already written and became the scripture when the Israelites returned to Babylon.
* The Hebrew alphabet dates to about 900 BC, long after Moses would have lived. Moses could well have had writers writing in another form, in fact I’m sure he did, it’s just that he wasn’t writing in Hebrew.
* I loosely believe elements of the OT story, myths are often grounded in truth.
Spock, again you divert the topic away from its subject.
Feel free to post this information and proof in a relevant topic in Skeptic Area.
Wakeup,
I used Wikipedia to show the a belief similar to that of the Trinitarians that already existed in the land of Egypt. A land where many manuscripts are found as well as the city after which the Alexander text type was named.
&t8,
I tend to believe the bible is fairly accurate as I was pointed out the dating and location used for Abraham links him to a earlier but similar code that was existent in Mesopotamian.
When an emerging monotheism (the oneness of unified deity among diverse divine personalities) it is difficult for the plural elements of a triune deity to compete as a concept among so many legitimately false God concepts of the surrounding tribes. Hence the Lord God (I AM) becomes one even though he is plural in manifestation.
It was frankly after Jesus returned to heaven that disciples began to contemplate the consequences to the conceptualization of deity in light of the revelation of his Son to mankind on earth.
Opponents of the eternal personage and office of the Son of God, encounter inconsistency when the result of their disbelief installs a temporary man-God in the place of the creator Son (an existential personification of the Father) who is the way, who has always been the way.
Many religions root back to Babylon and teach trinities. This is one telltale sign of Babylonian origin.
A trick used by some map makers is to place a false name in their maps to see if their work is being illegally copied by other map-makers. The fact that many religions promote some kind of a Trinity, from Egypt, to Babylon, to Roman Catholicism is like that false place name that is being copied. It seems you are also under that spell too Spock.
To whomever may be concerned,
Semiramis is a real person. She was a queen of Assyria who served as regent from 811–806 BC according to Wikipedia.
There is reputed to be Babylonian queen of the same name and is supposed to have married Nimrod. I find no actual evidence this is anything but a modern made up story. It sounds like someone combined the stories of Nimrod and Semiramis and then fictionalized them both to run a con.
Most of what the Babylonians or the Greeks believed were probably not true, although based on something that could have been true. No one is saying it was true.
The religion of Babylon is said to have spread out to the rest of the world. Mystery Babylon, the mother of all harlots. A harlot is often depicted as an opposite to a bride. So following other gods is likened to being a harlot, as opposed to following the one true God.
Many believe that the harlot that rides the Beast is the same harlot religion that originated in Babylon but changed in with each succeeding head/mountain/kingdom of the Beast due to change in language, customs, and time. Some argue that many religions today and even flavours of Christianity contain elements of that Babylonian religion.
If you research Babylon in scripture, you will find that God judged her because of her false gods and idols.
“Therefore, behold, the days are coming
when I will punish the images of Babylon;
her whole land shall be put to shame,
and all her slain shall fall in the midst of her.
48 Then the heavens and the earth,
and all that is in them,
shall sing for joy over Babylon,
for the destroyers shall come against them out of the north,
declares the Lord.
49 Babylon must fall for the slain of Israel,
just as for Babylon have fallen the slain of all the earth.Christianity itself drains many an ancient Pagan swamp in its formation, the atonement doctrine, blood drinking, flesh eating, rituals, saints, relics, incantations etc.
You can believe what you want about the Bible, but the prophecies have and will happen and we will all be judged by God at the end of our lives whether we like it or not.
You can believe what you want about the Bible, but the prophecies have and will happen and we will all be judged by God at the end of our lives whether we like it or not.
I agree with that, God knows what’s in my heart right now, I do not fear being judged by God in the way that you desire him to judge me. Many of the Bible books don’t cite authors and make no claims of inerrancy, that teaching came form the church, it is the foundation of their brutal authority over the ages and is the foundation of believers today who attempt to control others.
This forum has 5 or 6 regular posters and yet they sincerely disagree on what the bible actually says in fundamental ways. Therefore I will be “judged” no differently than you. I am completely ready to stand before my creator in defense of why I do NOT believe the exaggerated history of the people of killed Jesus nor the portrayal of God therein as an inconsistent, sadistic monster God who led the Hebrew people into barbaric atrocities! That God concept bears no resemblance to the God revealed in the life of Jesus.
Spock,
That stuff about Nimrod and them is pure nonsense. It was not a pagan religion in Mesopotamia. The Mesopotamian moon deity is a god not a goddess.
There is similarities between Native American religions and the true faith. After all Jesus took a vision quest into the desert after he was immersed in water by John.
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