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No FYI,
Yeshua is not YHWH.
He is who he said he is-the Son of God.
Why argue with him-does he not know who he is?
Do you know better than him?Nick,
You do miss the point. If you want to go through those scriptures one by one, we can, (though I think that you already have my opinion on them), but let's start with the ones that I posted. Explain how the phrases “by Myself” and “all alone” can be taken non-literally.
DVD,
You miss the point as well. Yeshua is not YHWH. There are an abundance of verses that show that the two are – well, two.
John 5:
Quote 31″If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true. 32There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. … 37… the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me.” But since you are a Trinitarian, I am interested to know what your belief is about what happened at the cross. (See my previous post.) Who was ransomed on the cross? Yeshua only or YHWH? How do you answer?
FYI,
You have been very actively posting other people's opinions on this site but you have yet to voice your own. Is your faith on those websites, or is it in your own heart and mind? A good place to start would be with the question that I have posed about the cross, the central point of all of our faiths. Who do you claim was ransomed for your soul? Yeshua only, or YHWH?
Hi WIT,
The point that you miss is that I agree it is the power of God that achieves all the purposes of God however and by whomever they are performed.
Look at the context of Is 44.26 and you will see this
Is 44.24
” I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by myself and spreading out the earth all alone, causing the omens of boasters to fail, and making fools out of diviners, causing wise men to draw back and turning their knowledge into foolishness, confirming the word of His servant and performing the purpose of His messengers”Even the words and works of the Servant Jesus and the works of all the messengers of God are the work of God. That is all God is making a statement about.
Jn.8:14
“Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.”Jn 8.18
“I am He who bears witness of myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness of Me”Quote (Guest @ May 28 2005,01:02) Jn 8.18
“I am He who bears witness of myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness of Me”
Hi DVD,
In context.
Jn 8.12
” Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying
'I am the light of the world; he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but he will have the light of life'
So the Pharisees said to him
'You are testifying about yourself;Your testimony is not true'
Jesus answered and said to them
'Even if I testify about myself, my testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I came from or where I am going. You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone. But if I do judge ,my judgement is true;for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent me. Even in your law it has been written that the testimony of two men is true. I am he who testifies about myslf, and the Father who sent me testifies about me'
So they were saying to him
'Where is your father?'
Jesus answered
'You know neither me nor my Father;if you knew me you would know my Father also”So the Pharises challenged Jesus's witness as if he was giving evidence in a court of Law. He replied that he was actually giving evidence as an emissary would-about a place only he knew-heaven. He said that he, who was separate from the Father, was sent by the Father from heaven to earth. He knew where he came from and where he was going.
He knew he was sent as the light of the world, the source of the Spirit, from heaven. He was the only human who could give this information. If they wanted to have more evidence then he also had the evidence of the Father who was in him by the Spirit.
They proved they did not know the Father by their questions which also showed they did not recognise the Messiah either because if they had they would have known the Father that way too.
True,
Jn 5.30
” I can do nothing on my own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and my judgement is just, because I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me. If I alone testify about myself, my testimony is not true. There is another whoi testifes of me, and I know that the testimony which he gives about me is true. You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. But the testimony which I receive is not from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. He was the lamp that was burning and was shining, and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light. But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given me to accomplish-the very works that I do-testify about me, that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me, He has testified of me. You have neither heard His voice nor seen His form. You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe him who He sent. You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life;it is these that testify about me;and you are unwilling to come to me so that you may have life”So Jesus said the Father had given a huge amount of testimony about Jesus through the word and the prophets, including John. Jesus was daily fulfilling those prophecies thus proving he was the Son of God and the Messiah.
He does nothing 'alone' and separate from the Father as he has immersed himself in the Father's will. So he is never separate from the Father. So his testimony about anything, including himself can never be wrong.
Perhaps the Pharisees had heard this discourse and thought to trap Jesus in his own words when he spoke in John 8?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2005,03:09) So Jesus said the Father had given a huge amount of testimony about Jesus through the word and the prophets, including John. Jesus was daily fulfilling those prophecies thus proving he was the Son of God and the Messiah.
Nick,
So you say that the YaHWeH specifically sent the prophets?Quote (liljon @ May 27 2005,16:04) YESHUAH IS YHWH INCARNATE.
Isaiah 40:3 with mark 1
Zechariah 14
also John 20:28 among any oher verses. Yhwh being solely responsible is true but jesus is Yhwh thats why ALL hings were creaed through him
1 cor 8:6 Hebrews 1 John 1 ephesians 3:9 Col 1
liljon,It was Jesus/Yeshua who came in the flesh liljon. Not God. Your words are clearly of the antichrist spirit.
1 John 4:2
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.If God created all things through his son, then it was still God alone who created all things.
- God created.
- Yeshua was the way/path.
- We are creation.
Yeshua is not the creator and didn't create creation. The Father did it alone, but through him.
If I ask someone to build me a house and I explain that I want it this way or that, then it is true to say that I didn't build the house. I gave preference to what I wanted the builder to do that is all. God created all things for Christ.
Hebrews 3:4
For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything.Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.So who made the universe according to Hebrews 1:1. It was the one referred to as 'he' which is God according to verse 1.
John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.So did Christ create anything according to John 1:3? It just says that it was made through him. Not created by Christ himself.
Let's look at it this way. Did your parents create you? No they were the agents that God created you through. It was still God alone who created you. He formed us in the womb. But God creates 'through' and he delgates too.
It seems to me that a lot of people cannot come to terms with God using others. Many seem to mix up God with that whom he uses. If God lives inside you, are you God?
Quote (Guest @ May 28 2005,03:56) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2005,03:09) So Jesus said the Father had given a huge amount of testimony about Jesus through the word and the prophets, including John. Jesus was daily fulfilling those prophecies thus proving he was the Son of God and the Messiah.
Nick,
So you say that the YaHWeH specifically sent the prophets?
Hi DVD,
Sure. God sent them. Look up your concordance and see how many times God calls them “My prophets”, “My servants the prophets”. The prophets, blessed with the Spirit, are dear to the Lord.
2 Chr 24.19
” Yet He sent prophets to them to bring them back to the Lord;though they testified against them they would not listen”
Jer 25.4
“And the Lord has sent to you all His servants the prophets again and again, but you have not listened nor inclined your ear to hear.”
Lk 11.49 [showing that it is ongoing]
” For this reason the wisdom of God said
'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world may be charged against this generation' “Mt 23.37
” Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her…”Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.Yes DVD,
Did you know Jesus was a prophet? He was filled with the Spirit of God and one of the gifts of the Spirit, you will know from 1Cor 12-13, is the Spirit of prophecy. A large part of his ministry was in this area as he prophesied the changes to expect in the endtimes.The scripture You quote from Matt 23 has it's parallel verses shown in my last post in Luke 11.49. The Luke version of the same speech shows it is from the “wisdom of God” so by comparison with Matt 23 we can know it is the Spirit of the Father speaking through Jesus as prophet.
A similar thing occurs in Jn 2.19 when the Father's Spirit says through Jesus that he will raise this temple again in three days. So you need to discern whether it is Jesus own words or the Father speaking through him.
Rev19.10
” I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus;worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy”Nick,
Who is the “Wisdom of God”? (1 Cor. 1:24).Hi DVD,
What are you trying to prove? That Jesus is his own Father?1Cor 1.20f
” Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For, since in the wisdom of God the world through it's wisdom did not come to know God, God was well pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ, the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men and the weakness of God is stronger than men”The plan is God's .The message is God's. The power is God's . The wisdom is God's. 'Christ crucified' is that message of God's.
So is Christ the only power of God ? Or is he the primary vessel of that Power?
Likewise Christ is a magnificent vessel filled with the Wisdom of God.
The power and the wisdom are “of God”. It is simple commonsense.
WhatIsTrue,
Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.Nick,
My point is (you obviously missed it); The New Testament categorically states that Jesus sends the prophets, and it doesnt matter whether you apply Matthew's or Luke's account of the discourse. The Old Testament categorically states that it is YaHWeY sends them. Can you explain this please?Hi DVD
A footnote on Acts 20.28 says'Some manuscripts have
“the sacrificial death of His Son” for “his own death”So since God is Spirit and cannot bleed or die it seems likely to me the alternative translation is more accurate.
You know someones grasping at straws when they start quoting footnotes. There is another, more legitimate, answer;
Jesus is God.
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