The Trinity Doctrine

[Anonymous]

t8,
It really annoys me that you have chosen to take 'pot shots' at me and have not addressed my scriptures specifically*, especially given I took almost two days off work to write it for Cubes. Perhaps this is your method, you can't refute the exegesis so you fall back on your “brainwashed” form letter posts. Why don't you address each of my points in my first post to Cubes individually and concisely, to disprove them with scripture? I will call in from time to time to see if you have been able to do this.

BTW, the word divine is an adjective not a noun, so could not possibly fill the gap. It is connotative of Jesus' being (or identity) because, t8, the connotation is that He is 'godly'. A God kind being godly – go figure!

NH has, at least, tried to do this (to his credit), however I'm sure if he studies the Daniel 7 chapter thoroughly, he might reach some different conclusions (NH, I am not a modalist).

[Anonymous]

t8,
It really annoys me that you have chosen to take 'pot shots' at me and have not addressed my scriptures specifically*, especially given I took almost two days off work to write it for Cubes. Perhaps this is your method, you can't refute the exegesis so you fall back on your “brainwashed” form letter posts. Why don't you address each of my points in my first post to Cubes individually and concisely, to disprove them with scripture? I will call in from time to time to see if you have been able to do this.

BTW, the word divine is an adjective not a noun, so could not possibly fill the gap. It is connotative of Jesus' being (or identity) because, t8, the connotation is that He is 'godly'. A God kind being godly – go figure!

*NH has, at least, tried to do this (to his credit), however I'm sure if he studies the Daniel 7 chapter thoroughly, he might reach some different conclusions (NH, I am not a modalist).

[forgot the asterix]

[Cubes]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 03 2005,05:33)

I believe there is One (echad) God. However, this word ‘echad’ does allow for compound unity. Compared the venerated Deut 6:4 with Genesis 2:24: Quote Deuteronomy 6 4 Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one [echad]! cf. Quote Genesis 2 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one [echad] flesh.

Hi Isaiah:

I overlooked the significance in your statement earlier regarding these scriptures you cited above:

I accept that Echad as defined in Genesis 2:24 is what Jesus meant when he said that “I and my Father are one.” It is a unity that Christ invites us into (John 17).

And yet, do the scriptures say:

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Along with many others.

It is also interesting to note that Eve came from Adam, just as Christ came from God and we who are being saved, come through Christ. Is that not what these scriptures indicate? No rush.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ May 04 2005,01:21)

t8, It really annoys me that you have chosen to take 'pot shots' at me and have not addressed my scriptures specifically*, especially given I took almost two days off work to write it for Cubes. Perhaps this is your method, you can't refute the exegesis so you fall back on your “brainwashed” form letter posts. Why don't you address each of my points in my first post to Cubes individually and concisely, to disprove them with scripture? I will call in from time to time to see if you have been able to do this. BTW, the word divine is an adjective not a noun, so could not possibly fill the gap. It is connotative of Jesus' being (or identity) because, t8, the connotation is that He is 'godly'. A God kind being godly – go figure! *NH has, at least, tried to do this (to his credit), however I'm sure if he studies the Daniel 7 chapter thoroughly, he might reach some different conclusions (NH, I am not a modalist). [forgot the asterix]

Hi Is,
I will certainly review Daniel 7 when you are able to refute all the points made and explain how your stated position does not make you a modalist.

Whay do you try to climb in the window when the front door is open. Why constantly search for the implied or possible and ignore the blatantly obvious?

What is wrong with a simple understanding of these scriptures?

[NickHassan]

Honestly Is 1.18,
To say because the “saints of the Most High” are also called the saints of Jesus proves absolutely nothing. Jesus does not take glory from the Father or compete with the Father but glorifies the Father in everything he does.

Your “logic” would not gain much credence in greek or any other circles.
It proves:

Nil.
Zilch.
Zippo.
 
I am a servant of my Lord and a servant of my God and so are you.

To take some strange implication out of these statements that it proves Jesus is the God of the old testament or is God in flesh is frankly ludicrous and I plead with you to please stick to simply what is revealed. These derived ideas are a fruit of folly like the derived doctrine of trinity.

But I care for you as a brother in Christ and do not wish you to take this personally.

Others say that because scripture says that
Jesus is the Saviour and
God is the Saviour
[both scriptures together in Titus]
Jesus must be Father God.

Why can you not just accept what Jesus said about Himself
-that he is the Son of God?

Do you know better than Peter or Paul or Jesus??

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Guest @ May 04 2005,20:19)

t8, It really annoys me that you have chosen to take 'pot shots' at me and have not addressed my scriptures specifically*, especially given I took almost two days off work to write it for Cubes. Perhaps this is your method, you can't refute the exegesis so you fall back on your “brainwashed” form letter posts. Why don't you address each of my points in my first post to Cubes individually and concisely, to disprove them with scripture? I will call in from time to time to see if you have been able to do this.

Actually I never mentioned your name, but if you recognised yourself in my post, then what does that say? I was actually making a generalisation about some who come here. I have been here for 3 1/2 years and have seen this kind of behaviour throughout that time.

I haven't read your post yet BTW.

I stand behind what I have said because that is an observation that I have made. It seems that not all who profess to be of Christ, actually love the truth. I think that it just goes to show that a carnal man simply cannot fathom the things of the Spirit and that many in the last days shall give way to doctrines of demons.

[liljon]

t8 I find it astonishing that some just won't take god's word as truth as accept jesus deity as yhwh god.

[Oxy]

K.. so I've been reading your posts. Ambassador of Christ makes this statement “Those who believe that scripture is truly God's word must also believe that there are no contradictions in scripture. Any such contradiction would prove error in God's word, thus error in God.”

Here's the challenge. Can you show me where in Scripture the Bible is called God's word? The Scriptures contain God's words (plural). There is only one Word (or word) of God. The One we call Jesus.

This may sound picky, but if faith is based on the Word of God, then we had better know the difference!

[NickHassan]

Hi oxy,
Perhaps we should move to a more appropriate forum.
Where is the bible called the bible in the bible?

[stroshow]

This is out of the blue but it speaks for it self

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the
glorious appearing of the great “God and our Savior
Jesus Christ”

[NickHassan]

Hi Strowshow,
Yes there is that scripture and two or three others that God has allowed to test us. Some immediately cast aside all the teachings of the New and Old testaments on the basis of these words and either feel they have proved ;
Yeshua is Yahweh
or that
because Jesus is God
there is a basis for a trinity theory.

I do not know how prone you are to do such rash things but I would just suggest you tuck this little gem of truth in with the others in your bag and don't throw the rest away. If you keep walking along it will become plain that Jesus is an amazing divine being but God is still his Father and his God.

[NickHassan]

Hi oxy,
I see from your teachings on your site that you say the Father ,the Son and the Holy Spirit are all part of the one God.

Do you believe then the Son of God has life in himself?
If Jesus is part of God is there no mediator then between God and man?
Do you believe he was sent by his Father and came in the flesh?
Have you been baptised into the Son and are you then part of God too?

[stroshow]

Nick How am i being tested?

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the
glorious appearing of the great “God and our Savior
Jesus Christ”

“himself” Notice not themselves,
HIMSELF, in this instance God and Saviour is referring
to ONE person, Jesus

for us to deliver us from all lawlessness and to
cleanse for “himself” [Notice Nick not themselves,
HIMSELF, in this instance God and Saviour is referring
to ONE person, Jesus]a people as his own, eager to do
what is good.

[NickHassan]

Hi, SS,
Is this verse new to you?
My footnotes tell me
“Or ' the great God and our saviour Jesus Christ'”

[NickHassan]

Hi ss,
The footnote makes more sense to me because the Son is not possessive and he brings us all to the Father so we can be the sons of the Father.

[stroshow]

Im going to repeat what i just said

13 as we await the blessed hope, the appearance of the
glory of the great God and of our savior Jesus Christ,
who gave “himself” [Notice Nick not themselves,
HIMSELF, in this instance God and Saviour is referring
to ONE person, Jesus]

for us to deliver us from all lawlessness and to
cleanse for “himself” [Notice Nick not themselves,
HIMSELF, in this instance God and Saviour is referring
to ONE person, Jesus]a people as his own, eager to do
what is good.

So are you saying Paul is calling Jesus God and our saviour or is he referring to Two “persons”?

[NickHassan]

Hi ss,
Tit 2.13
” ..looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of THE GLORY OF OUR GREAT GOD and our Saviour Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for himself a people for his own possesion, zealous for good deeds”

So who returns? Jesus Christ and the Glory of God.
Who gave himself to redeem us ? Jesus Christ.
Whom do we belong to? Jesus Christ and the Father.

[Oxy]

Hi Nick, thanks for your posts. Well done!! lol. K.. Jesus called it Scripture and I'm happy to live with that. I have it in the back of my mind that the name Bible came from a Greek word Biblos meaning truth, but not too sure on that one.

As for your other remark, I am a son of God through my faith in Jesus. The Word became flesh, son of God, born of a woman. He has returned to Heaven as mediator. It's all in the Bib.. umm Scriptures as you well know.

[NickHassan]

Sure oxy,
If I hire a lawyer I can expect him to wholly look after my interests. He must be totally independant with no conflicts of interest. I would be alarmed if he was also representing my opponent, or even more so if he was my opponent by another name.

Jesus is my advocate.[1Jn 2.1]

If the  judge sent me and my opponent to a mediator, again I would be alarmed if, when I got there, I found the mediator was that opponent. How fair would that be? What chance would I have of getting justice?

Jesus is my Mediator [1Tim 2.5]

If the Father and Son are part of the same God then these things are not true

The Son of God was not begotten of God-He still is that God.
The Son of God does not have life in himself-he shares the Father's life.
The Father does not live in the Son-He is that Son.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ May 04 2005,01:19)

t8, It really annoys me that you have chosen to take 'pot shots' at me and have not addressed my scriptures specifically*, especially given I took almost two days off work to write it for Cubes. Perhaps this is your method, you can't refute the exegesis so you fall back on your “brainwashed” form letter posts. Why don't you address each of my points in my first post to Cubes individually and concisely, to disprove them with scripture? I will call in from time to time to see if you have been able to do this. BTW, the word divine is an adjective not a noun, so could not possibly fill the gap. It is connotative of Jesus' being (or identity) because, t8, the connotation is that He is 'godly'. A God kind being godly – go figure! NH has, at least, tried to do this (to his credit), however I'm sure if he studies the Daniel 7 chapter thoroughly, he might reach some different conclusions (NH, I am not a modalist).

Hi Is 1.18,
You have made some true statements
God is one
Yeshua is the Son of God

But beyond that you have only produced intellectual and theological confusion. I believe if a word is too long and complicated then and I can't spell it correctly then probably I do not need to use it. You can guarantee it is not in the bible. It is better to use the words that are in the bible in my humble opinion.

I do not think you know what you believe beyond the two statements above

You seem to try to prove Jesus is not only godly but the God but then deny that you are a modalist. You do not seem to see the conflict between this statement and the one above where you say Jesus is the Son of God.

You deny you are defending any doctrinal base yet you will use any scripture to try to prove an equal trinity proving that this is a foundation stone of your faith. Should it be as it is not directly revealed in the Word?

You have the Spirit of truth. Why not let him rule your mind through simplicity? Why not trust the Spirit to be your teacher?

[Author]

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