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Ramblinrose
Yahweh, is the Hebrew word for God.
God has more than one name. Some of his names are Jehovah, I AM THAT I AM and God of Abraham, God of Isaac and God of Jacob.
Jesus is the son of David, according to the flesh.
Quote Romans 1:3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; Love,
Archieve
T8 You are absolutely right on your view regarding the
Trinity and the nature of God, and I am NOT a mormon
or Jehovah’s Witness. These are false doctrines. I
just believe the truth and it certainly isn’t the Trinity.Thanx for the encouragement.
Many of us a taught to believe that the Trinity is the correct doctrine and all the others are cults. But the weird thing is that the trinity and the denominations built on this foundation are actually the biggest cult of all. All the smaller cults were either created on this foundation or were created as a reaction of this foundation.
In the end we just need to lead by God’s Spirit and love the truth, in order to escape all the deception.
When we as believers understand the true meaning of Church and realise who our brothers and sisters are without judging from the outward appearance or what denomination they belong to, then we have taken a step toward unity of the Body of Christ.
Most believers today are trapped in the Christian System which is a system built by human hands. We all need to look to the city built by God himself, not Christian City.
Denominations have creeds as their foundation, but they will all crumble as the foundation is not true. When we see that the real Church is made up of living stones and we are fitted together under the Head (Christ), then we will realise that it is Jesus who builds his Church and men who try to build in their own names only serve to bring division and deception, which is all based on the pride of man.
Christian City is just another Tower of Babel, where men try build towers to heaven and make names for themselves (Catholic, Baptist etc). The result is divided language. Denominations and their creeds are the languages of Christianity. God has let this division perpetuate, so that men will not do this work of iniquity in unity.
If enough believers will lay their lives down for the truth, then the light of God will not only shine through the darkness, but it will overcome it.
It is the Truth that sets us free.
Hi T8
I use to go to a Baptist Church but I left this Church because I was looked upon as a heretic because I stated that the Trinity is wrong. They wanted me to either accept their belief or keep quite. The Pharisees said that it was through the Beelzebub that Christ cast out devils. Christ went on to say that if they say this to him what will they not say of his household. I’ve been through a similar experience in the Baptist Church. It is quite clear that Trinitarian churches are not of the same spirit as true believers. If we compromise, with truth it is no longer truth.
You said that the the biggest cult is the Trinity. This is true. I don’t consider such individuals true believers. They don’t really accept a non-Trinitarian as a true believer.
This is my point. The apostle John says, "You are anointed with truth and not with a lie". Matthew 10:20 says "It is not you who will be speaking but the Spirit of your Father". True believers worship the Father as the Most High God. Trinitarian cults include in their worship a lie, i.e. a third person which is no person at all. They are anointed with a lie. And without the true anointing which leads a believer to know the truth one cannot receive eternal life. John also says "Those who are not of God do not listen to us", as I have experienced. John then goes on to say "liars do not have eternal life in them". Because there are not three persons Trinitarans are serving a false God.
Paul also says we will only be saved if we believe exactly what we were taught in 1 Corinthians chapter 15.
The bottom line is this, if we speak the truth openly in Trinitarians churches, it becomes quite clear that they do not have the spirit of truth, but the spirit of those who appose the truth.
I forgot to mention something. In the New Testament Greek language there is no specific word for "he", "she", or "it". The context of any passage, is therefore, used to determine which word should be used. The text in John 16 is often used by Trinitarians to try to show that the Holy Spirit is a person. Some people point to the word "He" but this is deception. Christ makes it quite clear that the Holy Spirit is his Father’s spirit and in John chapter 16:25 that he is speaking in metaphors.
Welcome to nolieintruth
Following is a message I had sent to t8 just before you began posting. I, like you, believe that the Holy Spirit is God’s (the Father’s) Spirit and I thought it appropriate to now post the following. *****
Whilst reading the bible I have noticed that they refer to the Holy Spirit as ‘the Holy Spirit’. Whilst this is suitable in some cases, I feel it would be better to say ‘his Holy Spirit’. I have checked strongs as to what ‘the’ comes from but have found that ‘the’ is not numbered by itself but is tied to Holy. eg.
being sanctified <37> (5772) by <1722> the Holy <40> Spirit<4151>.
I have also quoted below some other verses where his Holy Spirit is used and this is shown as follows with strongs on.
Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled <04784> (8804), and vexed <06087> (8765) his holy <06944> Spirit <07307>: therefore he was turned <02015> (8735) to be their enemy <0341> (8802), and he fought <03898> (8738) against them.
Notice once again that ‘his’ is not numbered separately.
Does that then mean that the word ‘the’ has been added to make gramatical sense and that the word ‘his’ could replace ‘the’.
Here, as an example, are a few verses that I believe read better to one who believes that the Holy Spirt is God’s own Spirit (not God the Holy Spirit). I have used brackets for the change.
Romans 15:13
May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the (his) Holy Spirit.Romans 15:15
I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the (his) Holy Spirit.Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the (his) Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Sometimes ‘the’ is appropriate as in the following example:
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
The following verses have not been altered and they read correctly.
Psalms 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
Isaiah 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
1 Thessalonians 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
My understanding is that the bible is translated by trinitarians who would therefore write to make the Holy Spirit appear as a separate person, so ‘the or he would be more suitable to them.
God Bless
Thanks for the welcome Ramblinrose,
In Luke 11:13 and Romans 15:13 the word "the" seems to have been added. There is no doubt that Trinitarian translators have an obvious bias and would like to give the impression that the holy spirit is another person. In reality, the Bible does not teach that there is a third person. You see Christ said the Father was with him, and of course this is true because his Father’s spirit was in him. If Christ was truely the Most High God, he would not need God to give him his spirit because he would already be the Most High God himself. But in truth the Bible teaches that Christ needed his God and Father to teach him and tell him what to do.
May God our Father be with all who truely know him
Archieve
The names of God.
YAHWEH is used more than 6800 times beginning in Genesis. He tell us that this is his name.
This is how I see it.
God Bless
Elohim – means Almighty God – it is a title.
Adonai – means Lord or Master – it is a title.
El Shaddai – means God Almighty (but more nurturing than Elohim)
My name may be Sarah. My titles may be Mother, Teacher, Helper, etc. etc. but my NAME is Sarah, the others are only titles.
God tells us himself that YHWH is his NAME.
This is how I understand it to be.
God Bless
The following verses prove that Jesus Christ is God:
1 Tim. 1:17
1 Tim. 3:16 KJV, Youngs’s Literal Translation, NKJV
Heb. 1:8
Jn. 1:18
Jn. 20:28
Lk. 7:16
Rom. 9:5
Rev. 4:11In Christ Jesus,
Harry Bethel
http://www.bethelministries.com
[email protected]The following post was originally made by Harry Bethel
The following verses prove that Jesus Christ is God:
1 Tim. 1:17
1 Tim. 3:16 KJV, Youngs's Literal Translation, NKJV
Heb. 1:8
Jn. 1:18
Jn. 20:28
Lk. 7:16
Rom. 9:5
Rev. 4:11In Christ Jesus,
Harry Bethel
http://www.bethelministries.com
[email protected]here is a question- why does thomas in the book of john say to jesus "my Lord and my God" if he is a strict monotheistic jew? jesus does not tell him to not say that he is not God. also if there can only be one God by nature as Galations 4:8 states: FORMERLY WHEN YOU DID NOT KNOW GOD, YOU WERE SLAVE BY THOSE WHO BY NATURE ARE NOT GODS. BUT NOW THAT YOU KNOW GOD-OR RATHER ARE KNOWN BY GOD-HOW IS IT THAT YOU ARE TURNING BACK TO THOSEWEAK AND MISERABLE PRINCIPLES. What is the nature of God? simple, He is all powerful, all Knowing and, all present. only God can hold these attrributes but scripture show that Jesus and the Holy spirit hold them also. so this would make scripture point to polytheism. God says in Isaiah,"…who wil you make me equal to.." basically i know Jesus to be my God and savior and i would love to talk about this some more so email me if you would like and i’ll back it up with scripture but since it is such an indepth topic and i hate to type i’ll wait for a response.
I will deal with, Thomas's words in the book of john which say “my Lord and
my God” in another post as I am slowly compiling a reply to the post above.
That question is raised there also. This question has also been talked about
in other posts, but it may be hard to find them given the size of this forum.As far as Jesus knowing all things like the Father, please read the following:
Jesus knows what he knows because the Father chooses to show him, not because
he is inherently an all knowing God.
See John 5:30 (English-NIV)
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just,
for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.John 8:28
So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know
that I am and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has
taught me.So if Jesus were the all knowing Most High God, then why does he need the Father
to show him all things.
Below is a scripture with a clear admission that Jesus is not all knowing.Matthew 24:36
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor
the Son, but only the Father.The Most High God is sovereign and does what he wills, yet the following scriptures
show us that Jesus cannot do his will, rather the will of his Father only.Luke 22 42
“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but
yours be done.”Matthew 20:23
And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with
the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my
left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared
of my Father.Jesus says on a number of occassions that his Father is greater than himself,
which is contradictory to the trinity doctrine.John 17:3 (English-NIV)
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and
Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.John 13:16
I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.Mark 10:17-18 (English-NIV)
17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees
before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good, except God alone.
The next scripture clearly shows us that God and Jesus are different.1 Corinthians 15:27
For he “has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that “everything”
has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself,
who put everything under Christ.John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus
Christ, whom you have sent.Dear Ambassador,
I am a newcomer to the Heaven Net Forum and appreciate yours and other views regarding the deity of Christ. When all us believers begin honestly searching out and expressing our views of scripture to each other, it has to be in accord with II Tim. 3:16. I hope you will not take offense when I differ from some of your conclusions but will be benefited by some observations gener-ally overlooked.
Please let me begin by saying my understanding has come about in much the same way as the administrator (t8) expresses in his account, originally accepting the trinity dogma as true. At the urging of a pastor friend about five years ago, I took note of some of his arguments and began checking things out for myself. When encountering opposition to what I advance, I am not sur-prised, as certainly this must be an ultra-minority view, and it takes a lot of research, study and thought for us to be brought out from our preconceptions. But, oh, how much more meaningful Christ has become since coming to appreciate what he declared in John 17:3! There is no way I can express all that needs to be understood in this letter, but I will give you a barebones outline of my conclusions. Should you want a more in-depth look, please access my website at http://theHighwayToHeaven.com and click on “One God, Two Names,” which, when you reach the end of that short article, you may click to access a sub-web that examines this issue from dif-ferent perspectives and adds much overlooked scripture that sheds light on this issue. Let me su-mmarize this now and conclude with some comments on your comments.
In a nutshell, what we miss is that the God of the Bible is really a union of Deity and humanity, a Father/Son team. That is a relationship that can’t be separated. Each needs the other and each is united in will and purpose. As John 1:1 reveals, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” We need to note that the Word (Greek Logos) is used in scripture in a multiplicity of ways. Strong’s dictionary shows it primarily means a thought or idea and/or the expression of it. If so, may it not point to the thought or plan of God in the begin-ning of how He would reveal Himself and bring about our redemption. Need it necessarily be limited to just the advent of Christ but to the total plan of God for creation—from an initially perfect world to the advent of sin, confusion, His people Israel, the Law, the Cross, the resurrec-tion, the rapture, tribulation, millennium and the eventual Day of God? Certainly, when the word of the Lord came to His prophets, it prophesied in many different ways of His intended purpose. I hope you will study the way the phrase “Word of God” is used.
What was amazing to us is the way God has given so many subtle hints by means of the Hebrew precise words He uses. They are not likely to be seen by the unobservant or biased reader. For instance, consider the phrase “Lord God” in our Bibles, In the KJV or any literal translation, you will note a difference in capitalization—Lord GOD and LORD God. The reason for this is that the Hebrew words that are coupled together, though different, translate the same way in English, i.e., Lord God. Please check this out for yourself. Each of these word couplings appears in the O.T. nearly 300 times. What is astonishing is that one, Adonai Jehovah (Lord GOD) always re-fers to God the Father, while Jehovah Elohim (LORD God) invariably points to the Son.
Let’s look at key words used to refer to God. In Genesis 1:1 we find “In the beginning Elo-him…” It appears again verse 26, where we read “Let us make many in our image,” The plural usage is striking and thought provoking. Even so, the word “elohim” is basically a generic word that can refer to either the Supreme God or to lesser gods such as men (See Strong’s dictionary). Though Genesis 1:1 reveals God’s wonderful power, wisdom and creativity, if nothing more were revealed we would be at a loss to understand His relationship to us.
This is where I find it so significant that when God reveals himself regarding mankind, He iden-tifies Himself in Genesis 2:4 as LORD God. Then in Exodus 3:14,15, God reveals Himself to be “I AM WHO I AM” and instructs Moses to tell Israel that the “I AM” has sent Him, the God of the fathers of Israel, “This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations” [that is, the way I am to be remembered]. It is clear, I believe, that God has assigned two names for Himself. If He had limited Himself to just the first, Lord GOD, how could we know Him? He had to express Himself by a name with which we would be able to identify, the LORD God. This was the God of Israel; it is the God of the Church today, our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus. Though I stand in awe of the eternal power and majesty of the one true God, He is infinitely be-yond my understanding. It is by His Spirit that testifies to His Son that I have come to know His love and mercy to me. As a man, like myself, He could do nothing of himself but trusted in the sufficiency of His Father and mine. Surely he became identified with us so we can identify with him. In contrast to us, He, born without sin, was God’s Anointed, the firstborn, where we, his brethren, derive our life through him.
Notice again the Hebrew words of these couplings. Adonai Jehovah (Lord GOD), both words always used of God. For instance, in the KJV the word Adonai is used 419 times, always of God, never of Christ. Jehovah is listed over 5,000 times, always of God. One might say these two ex-clusive words for His name constitute a kind of double billing or emphasis of His sole deity and testimony as the one, true God.
Now, note Jehovah Elohim (LORD God) used of the Son. The word “elohim” as noted can refer to a man, one lesser than God (though here certainly Mighty) and his name is linked to Jehovah, his Father. Does this not point to what Christ declared repeatedly in John, e.g., 4:10, “I am in my Father and my Father is in me.” Christ, like his Father, is also at times mentioned only as “Lord.” In contrast to Adonai used of the Father, the word Adown is used 287 times in the context of humanity, some 40 times being used exclusively of Christ. To give just one example of how sig-nificant such a word can be, notice Psalm 110:1 used by Trinitarians so often to prove their case—“ The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand.” Because of its capitalization, the word Lord is inferred to be Adonai (Sadly, no one bothered to find that it is “Adown,” never used of the Father but only of the Son). Another verse is Isaiah 61:1. “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me, Because the LORD [Jehovah, God] has anointed Me [the Son] to preach good tidings to the poor…”. Here are the very words Christ used in Luke 4:18, 19. Finally, to see a striking contrast between Lord GOD and LORD God, look at Isaiah 48: 16, 17 “And now the Lord GOD [the Father] and His Spirit Have sent Me." . . .Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God [the Son]. . .” (Incidentally, the word cou-plings may sometimes be separated by a possessive pronoun).
Okay, I’ve stated the case, and you have a lot to chew on. Let me address the verses you quote in the Forum. In your first point regarding Hebrews 1:10, you point to verse 8 and Genesis 1:1 to prove that Christ was God. But look at verse 9: “Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” David’s words, “Therefore God, your God” surely show the distinction between the supreme God and the lesser one (Admittedly, it is hard to ever think of Christ as lesser but it is true only in regard to his Father). Let me add a note of explanation about the union God and His Son regarding how He shares or credits Christ with so many of His attributes and works. I think the question is best answered with another question. Is there any way God could be
conceived as the perfect image of God apart from being so cred-ited? Let’s remember that, apart from when he bore our sins on the Cross, the Son was never apart from his Father; the two cannot be separated, even though they are of different natures.
Regarding your second point Exodus 34:14, regarding God’s jealousy, the union of Father/Son must be borne in mind. The two simply cannot be separated. To worship the Son is to worship the Father. The incarnate God who indwelled Christ constitutes the Deity of Christ. This robs not Christ of anything but more accurately defines why he can be worshipped. There are many scrip-tures that confirm this. I do have a question regarding your Satan’s worship of Christ. I’m not aware of anything inferring this. Where do you find this?
Your final point concerning II John 1:7 and I John 4:2, 3 makes an unwarranted assumption. The words, “Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God” show that rather than being God, Christ has come in the flesh FROM God, which is in accord with what I affirm.
The Father/Son relationship answers many questions otherwise unsolvable, such as how God can declare in Isaiah 43:11 that beside Him is no savior and I John 4:14 where Christ is affirmed to have been sent by God as savior. There is so much more that could be mentioned, and I hope you will explore what we have found at our website.
Every believer knows that the word of God is pure. The problems arise when we, as victims of our culture, interpret them differently because of our preconceptions. I trust that by His Spirit that works and wills within us, we will attain to a greater mutual understanding. Even if we don’t see eye to eye on every detail, may Colossians be true of us.Hi guys!
First of all I’d like to say that my name isn’t Shania, nor am I a fan of Shania Twain, but the name means, "She’s on her way", which describes me right now. Also, I’ve read all of the posts(which took me a while).
OK, I’m kinda in a situation here– I’ve grown up believing in the trinity- In fact I just thought it was part of being a christian- I never even thought to question it. When I first heard of Christians not believing it,(which was last year), I was shocked b/c I thought it was just part of the faith. I had never heard of such a thing. Anyway, the subject came up over and over again, and then, (through someone close to me, long story), it hit me really hard. It was about a month later that I decided to really research it. When I first started discussing it with this person, my parents and everyone around me were wondering why I was even looking into it- as if researching it was pointless and/or wrong. I didn’t share this opinion b/c I think it’s important to know why you beieve what you believe– to not accept something with blind faith.
My research has led me to believe that the trinity is bogus– I agree with what t8 has said. However, there are a few verses that are tripping me up, and I know that God’s word cannot contradict itself. OK— here are the verses:Jude 1:4- "…Jesus Christ, our only sovereign and Lord"
~Correct me if I’m wrong, but "sovereign" means "most high; highest authority..ect…" Other verses clearly say that God (Yahweh) is the highest authority. I’m confused.I Cor 2:15- the spiritual man isn’t subjest to any man’s judgement
~ Other verses say that Christ is the judge– If he wasn’t God ( which I’m quite sure of), he was man– God’s son. Am I missing anything?Gal. 3:20– "A mediator does not represent just one party, but God is one"
~three parties, one God? — that’s certainly how it appears here. Understanding, please!John 8:58–"…Before Abraham was, I am."
~ I know this has been addressed, but this one is different that all the other "I am statements", ( btw– I think it’s ridiculous to say that Jesus was claiming to be God with these statements- we all say "I am"), because he is saying "before Abraham was, I am", not, "I am such and such." See the difference? It’s like he’s claiming eternality. I know that he was in the beginning, but he’s not eternal b/c he had a beginning. It would make sense for him to say "I was"–or "I was before Abraham" I’ve heard people say that b/c of the Greek language, it could be I am (he), but that clearly doesn’t make sense either. Help!!!!
Anyway, thank you for having this post, t8, it helps a lot. Ramblin’ Rose— I love ya, sister-friend!!! I really identify with you and your "lonely journey" I need some help dealing with that too, but I’ll talk about later.
to anyone who answers my questions, I send a BIG THANK YOU in advance.
God bless!
ps- I previewed this, and I don’t know why the little blue smiley face comes up after "I am" Wierd stuff.
Hi Shania,
I personally do believe in the trinity. Why? When examining the scriptures you sited, among others, ALONG WITH the scriptures that appear to contradict them, for me, the only way I can resolve the apparent contradiction is to understand and accept the trinity.
I have no problem believing that God is multi-faceted, which is how I define the trinity. Afterall, are not humans multi-faceted?
In the end, as 1 Corinthians states, each person is standing by their own faith. You have to search your own heart for understanding. Other people can give their opinions, just as I have, but ultimately, you have to decide.
I honestly believe, that either way, as long as you love God, He will love you in return. The fact that you are even searching for the answer, in my opinion, tells me that you do love Him.
God Bless.
one more thing: I think it is unfair to say that trinitarians think that anyone who does not believe in the trinity goes to hell ; or is not a real Christian. When I believed in it, those thoughts never crossed my mind– I just thought it was a difference in denomination or doctrine. I'm not a baptist either, and I don't think that they go to hell. I know that creeds say this and I know that there are some who believe it, but definitely not all. Trinitarians are our brothers and sisters in Christ as well. Just a thought.
Love ya all!
Hi Shania,
I was once confused of a trinitarian belief soI tried to look for the real truth and I’m glad hearing you doing the same thing also. For your further research, you can visit these websites http://www.thegodhead.com or http://www.apostolic.net . Goodluck for your search.
Here is my stand for this issue:
Jesus is God but I don’t believe in Trinity doctrine. Jesus Christ is man at the same time God. As man he is the offspring of david, as God He is the root.
Rev. 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star",
Isa. 35:4 “Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you. “
God (Father) did not send anyone but He Himself came to this earth took a flesh, bone, and blood in the womb of Mary born in Betlehem called the Son of God (Jesus Christ). These flesh, bone and blood became a covering of the Glory of the Father so that man will not die while He was on this earth, and the same that suffered and died in the cross to pay for our sins.
Think of this, why is it the Bible speaks about Jesus Christ as the Son of God and not God the Son. God the Son refers to another God and this will contradict the Bible while the Son of God refers to the Human nature of God (flesh, bone and blood of God). God sent His Son (flesh, bone and blood) to the cross, for without His blood to be shed our sins will not be forgiven.
Heb. 9:12 “Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”
Heb. 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb. 9:22 “And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. “
I Tim. 3:16 “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. “
Col. 2:9 “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. “
Rev. 1:8 ”I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”
I John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. “
John 5:43 “I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.”
There is only one God and His name is Jesus
To Harry Bethel & hugho9
Q why does Thomas in the book of john say to Jesus “my Lord and my God” if he is a strict monotheistic Jew? Jesus does not tell him to not say that he is not God.
A When Thomas says my Lord and my God, he is saying My Lord and my 'theos'. As has already been pointed out, the word 'theos' means many things. Theos means any of the following: a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities, spoken of the only and true God, refers to the things of God, his counsels, interests, things due to him, whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way; God's representative or viceregent, of magistrates and judges.
Now the following has already been mentioned in this forum: theos has been applied to the Father, Men, Angels, Idols and Satan. So we have many possible meanings given the context.
a) Thomas could have been referring to Jesus as his Lord and knowing this without any doubt he then could have looked up to Heaven and said my God (meaning 'Most High Theos'). Remember that the Gospels are historical accounts of what happened, to show us the certainty of the things that we have been taught. We can build doctrine from the gospels (recorded events), if they agree with the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles, but we must be very careful in doing so, as we are never really sure of the exact events in a visual sense.
b) My Lord and My God could have meant My Lord and my mighty one as this is a possible translation of theos (God, god, mighty one, object of worship). Remember that Jesus pointed out that those to whom the Word of God came were called “gods.” (The original early manuscripts were written with all capitals. Hence, translators decide whether to capitalize or not.)
c) Sometimes when we see something really amazing we often say My God. It is very common to say this even today, but it doesn't mean that we are saying that the amazing event is God himself. I remember saying 'My God' when I saw the events of September 11 on TV for the first time.
d) Thomas could of referred to Jesus as God, but he didn't say the most High God. There are many gods after all, and you can say that anyone in authority to you is god or a god. But the God of all is the Father. I could call Jesus my God, but Jesus himself has a God and he is the Father.
Revelation 3:12
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.Note: That this scripture doesn't say 'My Lord and my Yahweh' or 'my Lord and the Most High God'. It simply says 'My Lord and Theos'. This also in total agreement with
1 Cor 11:3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
e) If we say that Jesus is God because Thomas said my Lord and my God, then maybe we should call Paul God too. See Acts 28:6
The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead, but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happen to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god.”
So I think so far that we have to admit from a biblical stand point at least, that there are many gods (theos), but for us believers we can only ever accept one true God, or to put it another way, 'Most High God' who is the Father. Further we can prove from scripture that Jesus is theos, but we can also prove that Man and even Satan is theos. So if we were to say that Jesus is the Most High God because he is theos, then you have no excuse for not saying that Man and Satan is also the Most High God. Nowhere in scripture does it say that Jesus is Yahweh, yet in order to prove that Jesus is the One True God you have to prove that he is indeed Yahweh. You cannot prove that Jesus is the Most High God with the word theos alone. You need to read what kind of theos is being referred to eg: The Most High Theos, the Theos of this world etc.
In addition we cannot sensibly say that Jesus is the Most High God based on a historical account that could be viewed in any number of ways against doctrinal teaching/scripture that says otherwise. Look at what Paul teaches us in 1 Corinthians 8:5
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.1 Corinthians11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.What are you going to believe. Clear scriptural teaching or a certain interpretation of a historical account that in all fairness can be viewed in many ways given the uncertainty of what happened visually and the many possible meanings of the word 'theos'.
Remember that there can be no contradictions in truth and I would have to say that in this discussion so far that those who do not believe in the trinity doctrine have explained clearly, nearly all of the scriptures that are used in defense of the trinity doctrine, yet those in defense of the trinity doctrine have not explained the meaning of the scriptures that show that The Father is truly the Most High God and that Jesus has always been in subjection to him. I think it is because these verses do not fit their theology, so they just ignore them.
I leave you with Acts 7:55
But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
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