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Hi Human,
I agree we have to live out the salvation that freely given to us to be fully received at his return.Phil 2.12.” So then my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not in my presence only, but now much more in my presence, WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure”
But it is still hard to be discharged from the service of the Lord, to lose the eternal gift of sonship.
1Cor 3 13f “… and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work…..If any man's work is burned up he will suffer loss;but he himself shall be saved yet as through fire”
2Tim 2.11f”…If we have died with him ,we shall also live with him;
If we endure we shall also reign with him;
If we deny Him he will also deny us .
If we are faithless he remains faithful;for he cannot deny himself”He is faithful.
ONE GOD MANIFESTED IN THE FATHER,SON,AND HOLY GHOST!GODHEAD.
1 John 4:9
In this was manifested the love of God toward us,because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world,that we might live through him.Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,being understood by the things that are made,even his eternal power,and Godhead,so that they are without excuse.Read In your Holy Bible Revelation 5,and see The Lamb (Jesus Christ) Takes the book from the right hand of Father God.
Revelation 21:22-23
And I saw no temple therein,for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it,for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
(Us,Our)
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us,
Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language,
Isaiah 6:8
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?
Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons,God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts,crying, Abba, Father.
Notice When Worshipping Lord God Almighty! Holy is spoken 3 times.
Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.
Isaiah 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts, the whole earth is full of his glory.
Revelation 4:8
And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him,and they were full of eyes within,and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Matthew 24:36
(JESUS SAID)But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Jesus Christ the Son didnt usher the answer from Father God in Heaven at that time,because its to be kept as a mystery(secret)
This merges with free will of the humans on Earth,because they must be Rapture ready at all times!The people of God do get a dimensional awareness from the Holy Ghost as the ushering Rapture opens up the divine supernatural door into heaven.
Revelation 4:1
After this I looked,and there before me was a door standing open in heaven.And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said,Come up here,and I will show you what must take place after this.
———————————————————–Jesus Christ is the Son of God,and Jesus Christ was created before the World!Son is the Lamb,Jesus Christ(Lambs book of life)
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
1 Peter 1:20
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.
John 17:24
Father,I will that they also,whom thou hast given me,be with me where I am,that they may behold my glory,which thou hast given me,for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4-5
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.
John 5:22
For the Father judgeth no man,but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.
Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her,Touch me not,for I am not yet ascended to my Father,but go to my brethren,and say unto them,I ascend unto my Father,and your Father,and to my God,and your God.
Thank You,Lord Jesus Christ.I Love You!
When Jesus Christ would go alone to pray,he wasnt talking to himself,Jesus Christ was talking to Father God,and when Jesus Christ was on the cross,he gave his spirit to Father God,he didnt say,I give my spirit to myself! When Jesus Christ was babtized,The Father talked to the son! Jesus Is Lord,and the Son of Father God.
Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh,the same shall be clothed in white raiment,and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father,and before his angels.
ONE GOD MANIFESTED IN THE FATHER,SON,AND HOLY GHOST!GODHEAD.
1 John 4:9
In this was manifested the love of God toward us,because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world,that we might live through him.Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,being understood by the things that are made,even his eternal power,and Godhead,so that they are without excuse.Read In your Holy Bible Revelation 5,and see The Lamb (Jesus Christ) Takes the book from the right hand of Father God.
Revelation 21:22-23
And I saw no temple therein,for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it,for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
(Us,Our)
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us,
Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language,
Isaiah 6:8
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?
Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons,God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts,crying, Abba, Father.
Notice When Worshipping Lord God Almighty! Holy is spoken 3 times.
Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.
Isaiah 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts, the whole earth is full of his glory.
Revelation 4:8
And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him,and they were full of eyes within,and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Matthew 24:36
(JESUS SAID)But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Jesus Christ the Son didnt usher the answer from Father God in Heaven at that time,because its to be kept as a mystery(secret)
This merges with free will of the humans on Earth,because they must be Rapture ready at all times!The people of God do get a dimensional awareness from the Holy Ghost as the ushering Rapture opens up the divine supernatural door into heaven.
Revelation 4:1
After this I looked,and there before me was a door standing open in heaven.And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said,Come up here,and I will show you what must take place after this.
——————————————————————————————
——-Jesus Christ is the Son of God,and Jesus Christ was created before the World!Son is the Lamb,Jesus Christ(Lambs book of life)
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.
1 Peter 1:20
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.
John 17:24
Father,I will that they also,whom thou hast given me,be with me where I am,that they may behold my glory,which thou hast given me,for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4-5
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.
John 5:22
For the Father judgeth no man,but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.
Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her,Touch me not,for I am not yet ascended to my Father,but go to my brethren,and say unto them,I ascend unto my Father,and your Father,and to my God,and your God.
Thank You,Lord Jesus Christ.I Love You!
When Jesus Christ would go alone to pray,he wasnt talking to himself,Jesus Christ was talking to Father God,and when Jesus Christ was on the cross,he gave his spirit to Father God,he didnt say,I give my spirit to myself! When Jesus Christ was babtized,The Father talked to the son! Jesus Is Lord,and the Son of Father God.
Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh,the same shall be clothed in white raiment,and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father,and before his angels.
——————————————————————————————
——-
What should we do while we wait for the Lord's return?Keep The Word of God in Your Heart,and Mind!At all Times.Read your Bible at all times!It's Living,and Multi Dimensional!Spirit's drink Living Water!
Walk in the Light, separate yourself from the world.Why worry about material things?Your spirit,and soul is who you really are!Spirit's Don't Sleep!
Please God by the way you Love,and Worship him!Every Day…Talk to Jesus Christ at all times!Usher a Deep personal Relationship with Jesus!
Witness to others, like Enoch who was raptured, tell people “the Lord is coming” Today is over!Did you lead anyone to Jesus Christ our Lord?
Persevere, look forward, don't turn back to the life you've left. After all Remember what happened to Lots Wife!Keep both hands on the Plow!
Be Humble!Cast away Pride,and Ego!Who cares what people think about you.Only care what Almighty God Thinks!Let Go,and Let God!
Be Holy,Righteous,and filled with the Love of God!Be careful who you Trust,and always Trust Almighty God!Love is a Fruit that smells Sweet!
Be Blameless, make every effort to stay blameless and pure.After all Earth Time is not Even Real Time! Eternity Is Real Time,and Jesus Christ is Worth Everything!
Be Watchful for the return of the Lord.Jesus Christ will return when you least Suspect,and Jesus Christ uses those you least Suspect as Divine Instruments!
Pray always!Praying only once every 7 days,makes one weak.Don't just Pray on Sunday!Almighty God is watching you at all times,not just on Sunday!
“Dear God in Heaven, please help me to live my life in such a way that it is pleasing to you. Please consider me worthy to escape the time that is coming to test this world. In the name of Jesus, my Lord, I pray. Amen.”
This Message Is from Jesus Rapture!
B.I.B.L.E. = Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.
To Human,
Quote (Human @ Feb. 08 2005,03:48) Please do not underestimate the value Christian gathering together. Matthew 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
I totally agree. But we shouldn't be building towers of babel and making a name for ourselves.Yeshua builds his own Church. We are the living stones that make up his church of which God's Spirit dwells. Did Yeshua build the Catholic Church or was it men? Did Yeshua build the JWs or was it men?
We don't have the right to start up our own churches for they are surely OTHER churches.
There is one body and one head. Christs' Church is divided by geography only (Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum etc). We gather in groups to fellowship. E.g. Priscilla and Aquila's house or whatever
1 Corinthians 16:19
The churches in the province of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Priscilla [ Greek Prisca, a variant of Priscilla] greet you warmly in the Lord, and so does the church that meets at their house.The Church that meets at her house.
The Church in Ephesus etc.Many churches or geographical representations of the one body. One faith, one body, one Spirit, one Lord (Yeshua), one faith, one baptism and one God of all who is the Father.
The JWs, Catholics etc are other churches. They are not geographical divisions of the one church. They are their own organisations who's systems are part of the world. They have their own foundations and doctrines.
I say to come out of her and build upon the true foundation, lest your works be burnt up.
Lets be in unity in Spirit and doctrine. Promoting a denomination doesn't lead to unity. It is the opposite.
Quote (Cubes @ Feb. 08 2005,09:59) I have not had a chance to read through everything on this thread yet but much that T8 had to say in his 2000 Thesis resonates with me. I was struck by the fact that we could read the bible and arrive at the same conclusions inspite of the mainstream views on God. My question to t8 and others of our view is, where do we fellowship? Do you know of any people or groups that believe as we do? Also, were there any non-biblical early christians that you know of?
Look forward to hearing from you and being a part of this board.
Hi Cubes,Welcome to this forum and thank you for the encouragement.
I fellowship usually in houses of friends, but sometimes I meet with others in a park or a beach or whatever. No particular day either. But I may be getting involved in a home group on Wednesdays with some good friends.
I think it is up to the Spirit of God to lead us. We should also be careful not to start up our own denomination, but instead we should call out of the wilderness God's children. Even if we start with one person at a time.
If you know a person with faith and he believes in the Apostacy of the Trinity, you can share with him the truth in gentleness. If he refuses to listen then you could give him something to read regarding the obviousness of scripture that God is one and that God is the Father and he has a son. If he refuses to listen to scripture then it is not your fault. Such a person is hard of heart and useless to God anyway. Just look for those who love the truth and allow themselves to be humbled by truth. Surround yourself with such people.
Remember that all great things had a beginning and God isn't a thing.
I hope to hear more from you in this forum. Take care.
Quote (Guest @ Feb. 09 2005,03:39) Nick,
I think I can trust the opinions of the experts in the language. Do you seriously expect me to believe that all ten versions have an error?? and you, with absolutely no background in greek construction, are in the right? Get real Nick. I would be careful how I treated the holy Word of God, if I were you.
To MM,Why did John write John 1:1? Was he teaching the Trinity?
Hear what John says himself:John 20:31.
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.This is the basis of true faith. The Trinity is not the true foundation that our faith rests on. It is the truth that John mentions.
To use John 1:1 as evidence for the Trinity is wrong. It is written so that we know that Jesus Christ is the son of God who God sent into this world.
The true foundation of the prophets is Christ himself for they taught Christ. Even Moses spoke of him. That which the prophets have laid was built so the people would accept Christ and realise their visitation.
For God sent the prophets and the people killed them. So God sent his son and what should God do if they killed him?
Now the people try and change the truth of God to a lie. What is God to do. Is it any wonder that he pours his wrath out on this world and judges Babylon the Mother of Harlots.
I say to come out of her lest you participate in her wrath to come.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 11 2005,22:47) Hi Cubes, Welcome to this forum and thank you for the encouragement.
I fellowship usually in houses of friends, but sometimes I meet with others in a park or a beach or whatever. No particular day either. But I may be getting involved in a home group on Wednesdays with some good friends.
I think it is up to the Spirit of god to lead us. We should also be careful not to start up our own denomination, but instead we should call out of the wilderness God's children. Even if we start with one person at a time.
If you know a person with faith and he believes in the Apostacy of the Trinity, you can share with him the truth in gentleness. If he refuses to listen then you could give him something to read regarding the obviousness of scripture that God is one and that God is the Father and he has a son. If he refuses to listen to scripture then it is not your fault. Such a person is hard of heart and useless to God anyway. Just look for those who love the truth and allow themselves to be humbled by truth. Surround yourself with such people.
Remember that all great things had a beginning and God isn't a thing.
I hope to hear more from you in this forum. Take care.
Hi t8:
I am encouraged to hear you have others with whom you fellowship and I hope in time, God provides people with whom we all can do the same in RL: to pray, worship, fellowship and break bread together, even have some ministry times together such as visiting the sick, etc. Nick Referred me to multiple scriptures and Acts 2:42 expresses what I am trying to say.
Jesus did send them out in numbers, two by two and so forth. And he did leave us with a job to do. I am totally in agreement with what you and Nick say about not starting a denomination etc but I do strongly feel that we should have opportunities for fellowship with one another from time to time. We don't even need a name etc. We needn't even meet monthly or anything like that; once or twice a year would be helpful until others can find fellowship in their own areas.
I think that the Lord kept us and taught us by his spirit himself, and that we are here for such a time as this. My aim is not to start another church but to fulfill all righteousness in Christ [even as he himself did when he chose to be baptised] by loving the brethren/one another. But how can we claim to love the one another if our fellowship is confined only to cyberspace?
Just something to think about, though I have no doubt that you already have.
Hi Cubes,
I fellowship with a group of people who once believed in the Trinity and we were all part of a denomination. At the time I never believed in promoting the denomination itself, my interest were the people there.
The denomination itself had a foundation that was a Trinitarian creed of some kind, yet I had true fellowship with many there. It was just up to me to turn a blind eye to such things and accept each person for who they were. I tried to see the true church in her midst.
In time this denomination tried to promote me to become a leader and this was confirmed by prophecies from visiting speakers etc. In fact the pastor of this fellowship had a strong prophetic gifting and spoke many good and true things to me. He encouraged me to write and to share what God had put on my heart. But I rejected a leadership position not in a bad way, but I said to the pastor that if I was to be a leader among these people they will recognise that in me and that I needed no official badge as such.
At around this time I had an experience with God that confirmed what God wanted me to do. No particular thing but a vision of leadership to his Body that quite frankly surprised me and I found hard to believe. Not willing to be deceived I asked God for confirmation of the vision (even though I hoped that the vision was true as it was very good). A few days later I went to a home group for fellowship. A person whom I had a lot of respect for looked at me as soon as I entered the house with an intense focus and said I believe God is saying something to me for you. He said
“What God showed you the other night was him and even though you doubt in your heart it was him, it was him”.
That was all he said but it was so fitting. These words were very specific and to the point. I had not told anyone of my encounter nor what was on my heart to prompt such words.
Not long after this I wrote the Trinity writing among others and put them on the Net. In a very short time I started receiving encouraging emails all over the world from Africa, Europe, America.
However once the Trinity writing found it's way into the hands of the leadership at the denomination I went to I was asked for a meeting to explain. The pastor himself was at first accepting of my reasons but his co-leaders were quite condemning. I wasn't worried about this as I held truth as more important than myself. I was prompted to step down as a leader even though I didn't accept a leadership position in the first place. After that I never felt very welcome at that denomination, but many of the people there were my friend and they were not aware of what happened anyway.
To this day many of these people come round to my house or I am invited to theirs. I have given the Trinity written to some and recently one guy in particular who I know is gifted and knowledgeable. He got back to me with great encouragement and told me that it was well written and researched and he was quite amazed that the faith once delivered to the saints was not the one being taught in the denominations.
He recently married and his wife was a very good friend of mine before I knew him. So we and other couples and people meet from time to time and we plan to meet more frequently. We have talked about it a lot and we want to fellowship together and share what God is putting on or in our hearts. We want to challenge all things to see if they are so and to be of one spirit.
I am very encouraged by this and I see that those whom I love and trust in the faith are more open that I would have believed. In fact I can see that many people I know (even those who are not aware of my Trinity writing or the full extent of what is inside my heart) are really disillusioned with the churches or more correctly speaking the denominations. They prefer to fellowship outside of that structure, but some feel compelled that they must belong to a denomination even though they really don't like it.
But all in God's time. He prepares his people. He leads them and he teaches truth. Who am I to do my own thing, rather I am trying to be aware of what God is doing and encouraging that.
When I look at the denominations I see a prison. A prison because you cannot often venture outside to the truth, but must remain in certain error. No lie is of God and these traditions and doctrines of men hold many down. It is only in/on truth that we can build everlasting works. I also understand that when God sends us his new wine, (Spirit) the old wine skins will burst. It is not God's will that we try to dismantle the works of men with our own hands, rather that we do the things of God and the old will just crumble anyway. Light shines through darkness as it is written.
However I will not lie about the opposition I receive. It is quite evident even in this Forum. People are constantly trying to find fault in myself and Nick too. But that is fine with me, it keeps me on my toes and makes me aware of what I teach. No room for complacency. If we are to be like Christ, we will always be challenged, particularly by the Pharisees. They will always try to block the way for us. For no truth comes easy in this world. Prophets, teachers and apostles have died and suffered great persecution to deliver the faith to you. Such people who lay their life down for the truth are worthy.
Cubes, I encourage you to fellowship. But if you are rejected do not let that make you feel bad. In such times it is good to be close to God and let him teach you all things. Even Paul did this for 3 years and after that he often said this is what God says, not me. God will shine the way for you to walk. Trust in him and you will be in his will. It's simple but it is what our faith is about.
Quote (Cubes @ Feb. 12 2005,21:27) But how can we claim to love the one another if our fellowship is confined only to cyberspace?
Cubes do you live in NZ?Quote (t8 @ Feb. 12 2005,21:56) Quote (Cubes @ Feb. 12 2005,21:27) But how can we claim to love the one another if our fellowship is confined only to cyberspace?
Cubes do you live in NZ?
t8:LOL
NZ wouldn't be a typo by any chance, would it–you didn't mean NJ, NY, AZ or NM, did you?You are on the other side of the world! No. I live in the US.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I think many of us are in Trinitarian settings. I worship with Trinitarians but do not share my view except with those I am in close relationship with, because my purpose is not to bring division.
Last November, I joined a forum which is primarily trinitarian and it was then I started publicly debating with others. It was also at this forum that I was told I couldn't answer “christian” to faith/belief. All those who do not espouse to the Trinity, are not allowed to call themselves christians. We are considered “other-church” and are restricted to post only in the Unorthodox Forum where everyone is thrown together: eg. Mormons, LDS, JW, and other faiths I had never heard of. I don't fit into any of those categories either because of doctrinal differences.
This made me unhappy, and it started me thinking that maybe it's time I started seeking out relationships and fellowships that reflect my faith in One God and his son, Christ Jesus, hence my question at the outset.
Your responses make sense (you and Nick's). I will remain where I am and worship in truth and in spirit the one true God until he directs a change. In the meantime, I am glad I found you all and you are a source of encouragement.
Hi cubes,
Think hard about your situation. If you are properly established in Jesus [Jn 3.3]then you need to fellowship with those who fellowship with Jesus and his Father in the Spirit of God. To break bread with non believers is to claim unity with them. If they are not in unity with Jesus then what are you taking part in? What are you witnessing to God? Whatever is not of faith is of sin.
“The things the gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God and I do not want you to become sharers in demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons;you cannot partake of the table of the lord and the table of demons. Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He are we?” 1Cor 10 20That is why I broke fellowship with catholicism 20 yrs ago and await his friends to be one with.
non believers??!
what is a believer then Nick?, some one who believes in 2 Gods (or one God and one lesser god, i.e. polytheism), like you do. If that is the case, then I guess I am a non-believer.
Hi mm,
I use the term in a biblical context where believers are those who were baptised into Christ and bravely witnessed their faith under persecution.Quote (Cubes @ Feb. 14 2005,18:54) t8: LOL NZ wouldn't be a typo by any chance, would it–you didn't mean NJ, NY, AZ or NM, did you?
You are on the other side of the world! No. I live in the US.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I think many of us are in Trinitarian settings. I worship with Trinitarians but do not share my view except with those I am in close relationship with, because my purpose is not to bring division.
Last November, I joined a forum which is primarily trinitarian and it was then I started publicly debating with others. It was also at this forum that I was told I couldn't answer “christian” to faith/belief. All those who do not espouse to the Trinity, are not allowed to call themselves christians. We are considered “other-church” and are restricted to post only in the Unorthodox Forum where everyone is thrown together: eg. Mormons, LDS, JW, and other faiths I had never heard of. I don't fit into any of those categories either because of doctrinal differences.
Hi Cubes,Yes I am in New Zealand the most isolated country on earth. But you are still welcome to fellowship here.
Nick is from here too, but he is on a different island to me. It would be good to catch up with him too.Interesting thing about NZ is that it is the furthest country from Jerusalem and Jesus said to his disciples the following:
Acts 1:8
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”I have heard many prophecies regarding NZ being the end of the earth and how God will cause revival here that will reverberate back to Jerusalem. It makes sense to me that God could do such a thing, but we will see. I hope however to see a revival based on truth. A revival that will never die.
BTW I think that is pretty bad of that Forum to make people wear a label. It is hard to see the heart of a person when we have to wear labels and we get judged unfairly. It's like they are saying all the Trinitarians here and all the weirdos over there. I think many will be surprised to learn that Trinitarians are also a cult. Perhaps the mother of cults. I guess this all happens when men cannot see in the spirit. They decern with their caranal natures.
A christian is a person who follows Christ. Yeshua/Jesus is the Christ and the son of God and I am not ashamed of that.
Also I may be in the USA about May/June. If I do get over there we could catch up.
Quote (Guest @ Feb. 14 2005,23:57) what is a believer then Nick?, some one who believes in 2 Gods (or one God and one lesser god, i.e. polytheism), like you do. If that is the case, then I guess I am a non-believer.
Argue with scripture not Nick.1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Scripture is what you do not agree with MM.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2005,05:43) Hi mm,
I use the term in a biblical context where believers are those who were baptised into Christ
Nick,
Can you please show me the verse that verifies that one becomes a 'believer' after baptism (I assume you mean water baptism).Also, consider this:
Quote Acts 10
44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”In this passage believers had received the Holy Spirit, but had not been baptized in water yet. These men were saved, they were speaking in tongues, a gift given to believers only (1 Cor. 14:1-5) and praising God (1 Cor. 2:14).
Spirit-filled, believers praising God and speaking in tongues before they were baptised, can you explain this Nick?
Quote (Cubes @ Feb. 14 2005,18:54) Thank you for sharing your experience. I think many of us are in Trinitarian settings. I worship with Trinitarians but do not share my view except with those I am in close relationship with, because my purpose is not to bring division.
Hi Cubes,Personally I think there are 2 kinds of Trinitarians.
1) Genuinly deceived about this doctrine, but they do not teach it. They speak the truth and have the Spirit of God. They believe that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. i.e. True believers that need to come out of her.
2) Those who are religious and lack God's Spirit. They promote this doctrine even against the truth of scripture when it is presented to them.I would expect that the first type would repent when the truth was presented to them. Although they may initially be in some state of shock which is normal. This may cause a retaliation, but the truth would win them over eventually.
I know that I was brought up a Trinitarian (from the day I had faith in God that is) and I know that God loved me and I had a true faith in him. God did many miracles and was with me then as I beleive that he is with me now. If I was to condemn all those who believe in the Trinity then I would be condeming myself in the past which I cannot do in good conscience when I see all the works that God did in my life. Even though I do not believe that doctrine anymore (which was due to being naive and ignorant), I know that God was with me then and he is with me now. After all it was God who moved me on from my religious ways. If I did not belong to him, he wouldn't have done that. I have however always believed that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God from the beginning of my faith in God. I also never felt the urge to preach the Trinity doctrine back then now that I think about it. It was jsut something that I thought I had to beleive in, but I wasn't that passionate about it.
I have learned many things on the way and I am sure that I have many things to learn.
I would suggest that we all make discerments about who has the Spirit of God and those who are just religious. God's children are trapped even in Babylon, so we cannot write them off of course. But we need discernment.
I pray that God would give you and me discerment to know the difference.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2005,06:23) Quote (Guest @ Feb. 14 2005,23:57) what is a believer then Nick?, some one who believes in 2 Gods (or one God and one lesser god, i.e. polytheism), like you do. If that is the case, then I guess I am a non-believer.
Argue with scripture not Nick.1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Scripture is what you do not agree with MM.
t8,
1 Cor. 8:5-6, NASB
For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him,”.NIV
“For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live,”Notice the word “so-called.” Paul is not teaching us that there are many gods, he is teaching us that there are many that are “called” gods. You can see this elsewhere when Paul says in Gal. 4:8, “Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.” The Bible teaches that there is only one God, although people will always believe in other gods. In reality these other gods do not exist.
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