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Hi k2m,
Your messages do seem a bit waffly and mixed and I am sure there is more clarity in the Word than you are yet finding. You need to know that you are saved. That is why we are given the Spirit as evidence to us and a downpayment on the salvation we inherit in Christ. Seeing a vision is wonderful but it is not scriptural evidence of salvation.You must be born again of water and the Spirit and the apostles revealed the meaning of that verse by baptising in the name os Jesus Christ, and the laying on of hands in Acts.
If you read the opening verses of all the letters of the apostles you will see they are addressed to a specific audience. They are not addressed to men of the world but only to those baptised into the Body of Christ, sharers in all the promises including the greatest gift-the Holy Spirit.
And not everything said there applies to us either. The references to the OT Law applies only to the Jews…. and we are gentiles.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 27 2005,06:56) Hi MM,
I am learning.
What have you learned on this matter?
I speak to my Lord each day and commune with him. Is this prayer?
I bless the Father in his name and seek my daily needs.In your scriptural study have you found these things?
Should Yeshua be worshipped?
Should non christians worship him?
Should christians worship him?
Is all prayer the same?
Do we approach the throne of grace in the same way as we commune with the messiah?
Nick,
I believe the Bible teaches us to pray to God. Jesus is God. Therefore im not surprised that there are many passages that describe prayer to Jesus in the post ascention period. I am also not surprised that Jesus Himself tells us to pray to Him.
As for worship of Jesus, I believe IS118 addressed this issue nicely on pg 64 of this thread. He is worthy of worship, was worshipped (Matt 28:9) and will be worshipped (Phil 2:10).Hi MM,
'We are to pray to God. Jesus is God. Therefore pray to Jesus and worship him.' Is that what you say – plus a bit of speculation thrown in?You don't get it do you MM. That is a typical response based on ignorance-no offense.
Jesus said some men are gods so should we pray to them too? Just because Yeshua has divine nature and status does not been we should worship him. Is that your definition of a god-someone who deserves worship? There is a bit of a fine line here between communication with and submission to our master and idolatry.
Men showed him the respect he was due,[check the different words used] and every knee will bow in submission to his kingdom authority. But that is not the worship of our God and his God.
The vine worships the gardener but the branch cannot worship the vine-they are part of one another.Jesus is not the Father. Only the Father is to be worshipped as our God. Trinity worship and any other worship is idolatry.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 28 2005,07:51) Is that your definition of a god-someone who deserves worship?
No it isn't, why do you ask?This whole idea that there are many “gods” is actually a proof text. John 10:34 in its entirety reads: ” Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?” (KJV). I believe here the words “I said, Ye are gods?” Christ's argument, would be in the effect, that if your law calls judges gods, then why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying
that I am the Son of God? The judges of Israel abused their office and God is represented in Psalms 82: 6 as calling them “gods” because they were God's representatives.Albert Barnes' NT Commentary injects the following:
Ye are gods. This was said of magistrates on account of the dignity and honour of their office, and it shows that the word translated “god” in that place might be applied to man. Such a use of the word is, however, rare.
To use this verse and one or two others to say that there are many lesser gods (a status you apply to Jesus) or that men are deity is eroneous.
Do your homework Nick.
MM,
You are not telling me anything I do not know. I think my homework has been done. They were judges but because they acted in the divine role when judging they were called 'gods'
Jesus never claimed to be the God of Israel, but only the Son of God. The jews misunderstood him and wanted to stone him for blasphemy.
I have no problems with scriptures that say
“In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with GOD and the Word was God”
Or
“though he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with GOD a thing to be grasped but emptied himself taking the form of a bondservant ,and being made in the likeness of men”
Do you?Isaiah 44:6 Thus says God the King of Israel, and the God of hosts that delivered him; I am the First and I am the Last; beside Me there is no God.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as if dead. But He put His right hand on me, saying, “Do not fear; I am the First and the Last.
18 I am He who lives, and became dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Death and of Hades.
Jesus is the God of Israel
plus he was and ahould be prayed to Acts 7:59 1Cor 1:2Nick,
Once again, we are not talking the same language. I specifically used the word “deity” in my last post to avoid confusion, but you are focusing on the various uses of the word “god” instead. Understand this: there is not a single instance of a legitmate second deity being referenced in the OT. In other words, the idea that there are two deities in heaven is completely unscriptural. There isn't a single OT verse to support it – not one. If you actually study the OT, you will find many verses like this one:
Deuteronomy 4:39Therefore know this day, and consider it in your heart, that [Yahweh] Himself is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other.
I don't see any room in that verse for a begotten Son deity in heaven waiting around for his chance to come to earth. It states quite clearly: there is no other God in heaven or on earth. If you persist in the fallacy that the Father is God, Yeshua is God, and we are all gods – (which is what the Mormons believe) – then you are ignoring the most foundational truth in scripture:
Mark 12:32So the scribe said to Him, “Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. 33And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.”
Your quarrel is not with me. It is with scripture, not just any scripture, but with the kind of foundational scripture that Yeshua told a man who understood it that he was not far from the kingdom of God. If you read the NT, without understanding the foundational truths of the OT, then you will always fall into error.
Modem Mouth,
If you are waiting until you can respond to my analysis of your list of questions, don't bother. I already know that we disagree. Certainly, you can explain why you disagree with me for the benefit of others, but I am pretty sure that I already know how you understand those verses. You pretty much spelled it out in your questions. I am just waiting for you to answer the questions that I posed to you at the end of my response.
liljon,
Quote EXODUS CHAPTER 20 1 And the Lord spoke all these words, saying:
2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 You shall have NO other gods beside Me.
To say Jesus is your God and it not be true is in direct violation fo this command.For once, you and I agree, but I would ask to look at the following verse.
Isaiah 42:1 “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.”Yahweh is talking about His servant. It is clear from this verse that He is talking about someone other than Himself. Afterall, how can He be His own servant? Why would He need to put His Spirit on Himself? Why would He need to elect, (i.e. choose), Himself? Yeshua can not be Yahweh. Yeshua is the one in whom Yahweh's soul delights, and the one whom Yahweh has chosen to help bring forth justice!
I know that you disagree with me on this, but I came across this verse and thought that it might open your eyes a bit. Read it. Meditate on it. And see if it impresses anything upon your heart. I hope it does. If not, so be it.
To all,
If you are interested in the evidence that the Trinity doctrine is a manmade, developed doctrine, and not one taught directly in scriptures, check out the link below. Though I don't agree with the author's oneness theology, his documentation of the historical development of the Trinity doctrine is quite informative.
Hi WIT,
You never seem to grasp the fact that seeing the NT through the OT is looking through a veil. You trumpet your view but there are others I would like you to consider.
You also do not see that there are different perspectives. From the point of view of God there are no other gods in heaven. No other being, created or begotten, approaches His power and glory. No other being is to be worshipped. There is no argument here.
Yeshua said God is one and told us to worship Him alone but he also quoted scripture that some men are as gods. He is humble and did not compare his status with his Father but that mighty status as Son of God from the beginning is laid out in the OT and the NT.
But from the human perspective there are many greater beings than ordinary men. That is another use of the word. Archangels and angels and the Son of God are as gods, not to be worshipped but respected. As Jude says even Satan must be treated with great respect.
Of course when we are born into Yeshua we become higher than all but him and the Father and as gods too. I have never said all men are gods so please read my posts carefully.
THe Son of God was God and with God the Father, his God, in the beginning and the world and all creation was made through him.
Heb 1.8 f
” But of the Son He says
'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever and the righteous scepter is the scepter of his kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness.
Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your companions'
and
' You laid laid the foundations of the earth and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish but you will remain…”
Yeshua is not in competition with his Father. He did not try to seek equality with the Father but chose humility and obedience and became as one of us for a time.Hi liljon,
There are several scriptures about both the Father and the Son being 'the First and the Last'
That does not mean the Son is the Father or the Father is the Son.
Neither is there any conflict in scripture.
It is all a matter of context and perspective and to show different aspects of the kingdom.
It is easy to see how the Father is the first and last. no being or created thing precedes Him or will be after Him. He has no beginning or end. He is God of all and the source of everything. The Son and all creation will be subjected to Him at the end of time.Under the Father the Son is the first and the last. He is the only begotten Son. He is the firstborn Son through whom all things were made. He is the firstborn from the dead being the first to be resurrected by the Father. He sits at the right hand of God and every knee shall bow to him.
From God's point of view life is about calling and purifying a people through salvation and testing in suffering and fire. After the 1st resurrection and the millenial kingdom, the second resurrection, the battles at the end of time and the judgement then all men who remain will be in the bride of Christ.
They will be united with the Lord Jesus in a wedding complete with a feast and there will be complete unity in Yeshua. So there will only be God, Yeshua and the holy angels. Yeshua will be the last under God.
I hope this helps.Nick,
Once again, we are talking two different languages. I am talking about deities, (i.e. divine, uncreated beings), and you are talking about gods merely as persons in positions of authority. Let me repeat myself: there is no room in scripture for a second deity, and there is no scripture that will support it.
For the record, reread the verses I quoted. They are written from the perspectives of men, not from God, and they reaffirm the foundational scriptural truth that there is only one Deity – from both the OT and the NT. All other gods referenced in scripture are either false gods or men – no exceptions!
Quote Deuteronomy 4:39Therefore know this day, and consider it in your heart, that [Yahweh] Himself is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other. Mark 12:32So the scribe said to Him, “Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. 33And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.”
But, as long as you keep the veil over your heart concerning the OT, you will miss the foundational truths of the faith. Notice, I said that the veil is in your heart and not in the OT, as you seem to think.
2 Corinthians 3:15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
Think about this: What were Yeshua's two greatest teachings? Of course, they were to love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. Where did those teachings come from? That's right, the OT.
Deuteronomy 6:4″Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one! 5You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.”
Leviticus 19:18You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.
The people of Yeshua's time had missed these essential truths of the OT, and instead, preferred the legalism of the Pharisees. Yeshua came to teach them and demonstrate to them these essential truths. Skip over the OT, particularly the Law in the OT, and you are skipping over the very foundations of Yeshua's message while he was here on earth.
But, I will not press this issue any further, because I know you will not see the significance of this. We are talking two completely different languages.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 29 2005,11:43) Deuteronomy 4:39Therefore know this day, and consider it in your heart, that [Yahweh] Himself is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other. I don't see any room in that verse for a begotten Son deity in heaven waiting around for his chance to come to earth. It states quite clearly: there is no other God in heaven or on earth. If you persist in the fallacy that the Father is God, Yeshua is God, and we are all gods – (which is what the Mormons believe) – then you are ignoring the most foundational truth in scripture:
Hi WIT,Proverbs 30:4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!John 20:31
But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.You know I am amazed at the length that people go to to try and hide or change the truth that Jesus is the Son of God and the Messiah.
It's like our adversary would prefer us to believe that he didn't exist, that he is just a man, that he is even God himself. But don't believe that he is the Messiah or the son of God. I wonder why that is?
Matthew 16:16-18
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.If I am the last man standing in defending this truth then I would still stand for this truth. But thank God I am not the last man standing. There are many who defend this truth.
Hades will not overcome or become stronger than this truth.
Hi WIT,
You have summarised the OT Law which Yeshua reiterated in two parts to the Jews. That teaching was for the jews who were under the OT agreement with Him. It is not for the gentiles, including you and I, who are outside that covenant.
We have no such treaty with a God of terrible power. We are not Jews. It is time wasting uselessness to imagine we gain from the Law except in what we can learn from it about God and His ways.
The greater teaching he gave to the rich young man who persisted and got the answer he would have got if he asked the correct question in the first place instead of asking what he must 'do' to 'inherit 'the kingdom.
The law of Christ is different. It applies to those reborn into Yeshua.
” Love ONE ANOTHER as I have loved you”
Makes sense really for the eye or hand to look after the toe as it is hard to walk far if the foot is damaged.[See 1Cor 12]
Heb 12.12
” Therefore strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed”Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 29 2005,11:43) If you persist in the fallacy that the Father is God, Yeshua is God, and we are all gods – (which is what the Mormons believe) – then you are ignoring the most foundational truth in scripture:
Hi WIT,You do not appear to understand the context in which God is the only true God.
E.g. God is the true Father, the Father of our spirits. But there are also many fathers. Even you have one I am sure. But the fact remains that he is the original father.
Have you ever paid rent to a landlord, yet Jesus is the lord and every tongue will confess that. But there are other lords and that doesn't nullify the fact that Jesus is lord. If it does, you need to change your thinking.
It's not hard to understand, but God is the only true God because he is the original. All other gods are representives of him, prototypes or images of him, or false gods.
Theos {theh'-os} is by far the most common Greek word that we translate as God or god. Below are the possible meanings of the word 'theos'.
1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2) the Godhead
3) spoken of the only and true God
3a) refers to the things of God
3b) his counsels, interests, things due to him
4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
4a) God's representative or viceregent
4a1) of magistrates and judgesSo the Father is God because of his authority. However God the author also sends messengers with his authority, so when our Father anoints someone to speak His words, that person is given the title god whether he be an angel or a man. In addition, someone or something that takes takes the place of God is also called a god, a false god.
So looks look at some biblical verses that apply the word God (Theos) to denote different personalities. Please read the following New Testament scriptures with careful consideration.
Below we see a verse where the word 'theos' is used when referring to the Father.
Ephesians 1:3
Praise be to the God (theos) and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.Now you will see a verse where the Greek word 'theos' is used to describe Jesus.
John 20:28-29
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God! (theos)”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”The word 'theos' in the next verse is used to describe Satan as he is the author of this world/age.
2 Corinthians 4:4
The god (theos) of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God (theos).The word (theos) is also used to describe Man see below.
John 10:34
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods (theos)'The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and again we see that the word “God” can apply to our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, Angelic & Demonic powers, idols and mankind.
The NIV & NASB translate the following 3 words as God “el” “eloah” & “elohim”
Each is a generic term, meaning “God” or “mighty one”.
Normally when one of these words occur in the OT, it designates either the true God or something that the pagan nations viewed as a god. In only a few instances are these words used of angels or human beings.Below is a scripture that shows that the Father is God.
Malachi 2:10
Have we not all one Father ? Did not one God (El) create us?
Why do we profane the covenant of our fathers by breaking faith with one another?Next I will show you a verse where the Hebrew word “eloah” is used to describe Jesus.
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God (El), Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.Next we can see that the word god is used to denote idols.
Exodus 20:23
Do not make any gods (Elohim) to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods (Elohim) of silver or gods (Elohim) of gold.The word “Elohim” is the most common word that is translated God in the Old Testament.
Genesis 1:1 says:
In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth.“Elohim” is also used to describe Man. See next the verse.
Psalms 82:6
“I said, `You are “gods” (Elohim); you are all sons of the Most High.'Even angels are called gods in Psalm 97:7. This verse is actually quoted in the Hebrews 1:6 and it is referring to the Angels.
Psalm 97:7
All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols; worship him, all you gods (Elohim)!These scriptures show us that the word God is actually a term and is not always used to describe the Most High God, rather it is a term that can apply to many types of authority. I think that it is very important that we read each verse in its correct context e.g. The Most High God is completely different to the god of this age. In other words the type of God that is being referred to is determined by the adjective or context of the sentence. It is incorrect to read the word 'God' as the Most High God in every case. In fact the very term 'Most High God' leads us to conclude that there must be lesser gods.
To WIT,
Psalm 2:7
“I will declare the decree: YHWH hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”Therefore YHWH (God) is the Father of Jesus. Jesus is not YHWH. Jesus is the Son of YHWH, otherwise known as the Son of God.
Jesus is not YHWH (God) he is the son of that God, who is also the God of the righteous.
Mark 10:18
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good–except God alone.Luke 18:19
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good–except God alone.So even Jesus goodness comes from God, for who would deny that Jesus was good? In other words God is the original good and Jesus goodness comes from God.
Jesus taught us that he does nothing of himself but he does what he sees the Father doing and he says what the Father says. Scripture is very clear regarding this.
Jesus is the image of God, the firstborn of all creation. Jesus is the image, so that means that he is not the original. The original is the Father, who is the only true God.
Here O Israel, the Lord thy God is one God.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 24 2005,22:20) If the concept of God being a Trinity was so foundational to the faith, and it was revealed to the apostle's during their extraordinary mission, why don't we see phrases like “God the Son” or “three in one” in their writings? Why do they seem to be generally oblivious to a Trinity concept, especially in light of the fact that this would have been a major theological shift in understanding from what they had been taught about God their whole lives?
Hi WhatIsTrue,
Yes you can take it for granted that I disagree with you on all your points. Please don't take this as a put down, but I was expecting much better from you. Most of these reasonings have been used previously in this thread and were comprehensively refuted by Global and the like (especially Jn 1:1, Rev 1:8, Zech 14 and the triadic verses). I was hoping that you could supply me with some new insights. Thank you for taking the time though.I question the validity of the trinity doctrine as I question all doctines, but the questions I listed for you (and a few others) keep resurfacing in my mind. If i'm to take God at His word then I have to believe that Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is too.
Why isnt the three into one concept or God the Son written in scripture? Dunno, good point I suppose. Im sure I could trawl the trinitarian websites for some good answers, but I really can't be bothered. The way I look at it is that the trinity is the model in which the most jigsaw pieces fit into the puzzle. God may well be imperfectly understood using the trinity model, but I would expect a universe-creating supreme being to be very complex anyway. I have read that the arian argument is just an attempt to make God in man's image, I thought that was an interesting way of looking at it.
I can tell you with certainty that I have a flawed theology, but I also believe that this is the human condition (everyone has something wrong). What matters to me is that God has transformed me and uses me as an instrument of His will, despite my theological shortcomings.
Peace.
Hi mm,
I ask you to consider a few points. The trinity dogma is important. It is either right or wrong. If it is wrong it is important we know this as whom we worship is a serious matter to our God.
Did Yeshua come to earth to tell us to know and worship a different God or did He show us more about his Father, the God of the Jews? If so show me where.
Did he teach that God is different to how He was revealed in the OT and now reveals himself as of three equal parts for that is the trinity doctrine?
Where is the Holy Spirit shown as a separate being in Heaven?Likewise where does it say the Father Himself came to earth? Where does the NT or OT say we should worship the Holy Spirit? Surely the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God who is the power and ability of God in and amongst His Creation?Have a look at Romans 8 and see how many ways the Holy Spirit is described in that chapter alone?
Take time and ponder these things in your heart.It took me 20 years to see what is so simple. Nothing has changed and the word has not revealed this new teaching . It goes beyond the revelation of the Word of God. It insults the Father and distorts truth.[see2Jn 9]
Jn 4.21f
“Jesus said to her
'Woman believe me, an hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you WORSHIP THE FATHER. You worship what you do not know; WE WORSHIP WHAT WE KNOW, for salvation is from the Jews. But an hour is coming , and now is, when the true worshippers WILL WORSHIP THE FATHER in spirit and truth;for such people the Father seeks to be HIS WORSHIPPERS. God IS SPIRIT and those who WORSHIP HIM must worship in spirit and truth”If Yeshua came to tell us about a new trinity to worship now was his chance. Instead he told them more about the God of the Jews, his Father. He told them that they now need the Holy Spirit's help to worship God, not in a glass cathedral or other solemn place but in our hearts where the Spirit of God is meant to dwell and will dwell if invited.
Hi WIT,
I agree there are no other 'deities to be worshipped' in heaven or on earth than the Father.Quote (Guest @ Jan. 30 2005,04:12) The way I look at it is that the trinity is the model in which the most jigsaw pieces fit into the puzzle. God may well be imperfectly understood using the trinity model, but I would expect a universe-creating supreme being to be very complex anyway.
To Modem Mouth,If you think about it, you have explained why the Trinity doctrine is an idol. You see all idols are made by man to represent God or a god of some kind. Even statues of Mary are idols of Mary (icons or representations), not that she should be revered like God anyway.
The point is that all ways that men try to describe God using his own understanding or own hands are idols or icons.
When I see the diagram above I see an idol or representation of God in mans image. Imagine how God feels when he sees that diagram. Is he suppose to say well they are certainly clever, they figured me out?
We cannot possibly understand God with our own understanding MM, but only understand what God has revealed about himself. If we venture outside of what God has revealed then I can assure you that it is wrong. As it is written:
1 Corinthians 2:11
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.Who knows how many people have been branded heretics or even died because they refused to accept a theory that came hundreds of years later and came from the spirit of man. I have no part in this work of man and the murders that were committed to preserve that doctrine.
I stick to scripture and I would encourage all those who want to teach about God or know him, to stick to scripture as it reveals things about God that we couldn't figure out on our own.
This is your answer as to why the words Trinity, Triad, God the son and 3 in 1 do not appear in the bible.
These all came later and at the appointment of a Roman Emperor. But I am a follower of the Lord Jesus, not Constantine or Athanasius.
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Excellent posts T8,
Of course to go beyond scripture and to develop theories about God, such as trinity, shows other problems in our attitude towards the things of God.It shows we do not fear God as we should.
It shows we do not respect scripture as the source of Truth.
It shows that we believe our minds are greater than scripture.
It shows that we do not respect the Son of God who told us his Word is truth.
It shows we do not respect the Holy Spirit of God who wrote scripture through men.This is of Babylon. The Tower of Babel was man's attempt to reach the heavens.
“Come out of her my people.”
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