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Why did Jesus say, “If you have seen me, you have seen the Father”?
Is this text from Isaiah speaking of Jesus?6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, [a] Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.As with all issues of contention, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the extremes. God is so obviously not three separate persons, but Jesus is so obviously the everlasting Father. Don't try and figure God out with your head, He is not discovered by inquiry and investigation, but rather known by inspiration and revelation.
Welcome to the site and thanks for the contribution.If you look at the “Who is Jesus ” forum you will see that Jesus is father to his children, as he addressed his followers many times, but he is not THE Father.
God is his Father and the Father.
Jesus is the firstborn Son of the Father.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 10 2004,19:26) Welcome to the site and thanks for the contribution.If you look at the “Who is Jesus ” forum you will see that Jesus is father to his children, as he addressed his followers many times, but he is not THE Father. God is his Father and the Father.
Jesus is the firstborn Son of the Father.
OK, so why is He not ashamed to call us His brethren?Are we His children or His Brethren?
Were we not created in Christ before the foundation of the worlds?
The is only One Spirit, One Baptism, One God and Father of All. The reason why this is so hard for people to fathom is because we tend to think in the context of a time/space continuum – linear thinkers. God sits outside time and says all at once.
He once told me that the easiest way to begin to comprehend how He is, is to look in the mirror, as He made us in His image and likeness; body, soul and spirit.
Perhaps the most profound image of God that has been uncovered is that of DNA. Just as the DNA of each cell contains the entire encoding of the whole and the unique application of the individual – so too all the fullness of the Godhead is in Christ, and Christ is in us.
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Hi ,
Can't find you in the other forum so I'm back.
Yes there is one Spirit , and one baptism one god and Father of all.
But God only becomes your Father and Christ only live in you and you share that one Spirit- only when you are born again of Water and the Spirit – after repentance… by your choice.. Until then you are outside these promises of God.Jesus was worshipped
Hebrews 1:6And when he again bringeth in the firstborn into the world he saith, And let all the angels of God worship himMatthew 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Matthew 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
Plus the Father called him God
1:8but of the Son he saith,Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever;
And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Yes Jesus was worshipped and was worthy of worship. He was worshipped by the Maji and many others but he never sought worship.He came to draw men to worship the Father just as he did.
Only the Father is greater than he is in authority,power and glory. As Hebrews 1 -2 tells us he was made for a little while lower than the angels [when on earth] but was raised again to sit at the right hand of the Father. Every knee shall bow to him on earth and in heaven but he will hand the kingdom back to the Father at the end of time[1 cor 15.24].
What a privelege to be able to be reborn into him.ps, Yes the Father called him 'God' and he had divine nature. Jesus quoted scripture in Jn 10 where men are called gods too.
Jesus claimed to be the Messiah and the Son of God but never claimed to be the Father. Jesus is not the “God” that is written of 3000 odd times in the Old testament alone. That is the Father, of whom Jesus said in Jn 20
” I ascend to my Father and your Father, my God and your God”And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:1-3).
But if not, let it be known to you, O king, that we do not serve your gods, nor will we worship the gold image which you have set up.” (Daniel 3:18).“But you shall destory their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God)…” (Exodus 34:13-14).
“Then Jesus said to him, ‘Away with you, Satan! For it is written, You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’” (Matthew 4:10).
Jesus is the God of the Old testamnet
“You alone are the LORD; You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and everything on it, the seas and all that is in them, and You preserve them all. The host of heaven worships You.” (Nehemiah 9:6).
To declare the name of the LORD in Zion, and His praise in Jerusalem…Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You will endure; Yes, they will all grow old like a garment; like a cloak You will change them, and they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will have no end.” (Psalm 102:21-27).
“And: 'You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain; and they will all grow old like a garment; like a cloak You will fold them up, and they will be changed. But You are the same, and Your years will not fail.” (Hebrews 1:10-12).John said: “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.” (1 John 5:20).
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.” (Colossians 1:16).
are commanded to worship the Son just as we worship the Father:“…that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.” (John 5:23).
I, even I, am the LORD, and besides Me there is no savior.” (Isaiah 43:11).
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.” (1 John 4:14)
“The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the LORD; make straight in the desert A highway for our God.
(Isaiah 40
'I am “The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Make straight the way of the LORD,” as the prophet Isaiah said.'” (John 1:22-23).
“The LORD of hosts, Him you shall hallow; Let Him be your fear, And let Him be your dread. He will be as a sanctuary, But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense To both the houses of Israel, As a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble; They shall fall and be broken, Be snared and taken.” (Isaiah 8:13-15).Yes liljon,
You love God and respect the Word.Do you believe there was no God in heaven when Jesus came to earth? To whom,then, did Jesus pray? Do you believe the God who created all things could leave heaven and be enshrouded in flesh? All the scriptures about the Father say that He lives in heaven.
Jesus,teaching us to pray in Mt 6 said
” Our Father who art in heaven..”
Jesus created everything as the agent of his Father. The Father uses many agents to do His work. He uses angels to communicate with men and used Satan to test Job. God will come to rescue His people in Zech 14 but it will be Jesus standing on the Mount of Olives-acting in the name of his Father.
Be patient and take your time on these matters as no one brought up in traditional churches can accept these things immediately ,but this is what the bible reveals about the relationship between God and His Son.You need to understand that Jesus came in His Father's name, did the work of the Father and revealed the Father to men, but He was the Son of God ,not the Father of the Son of God. Though being in him we are in the Father as he is in his Father.
Hi liljon.
I am sure you mean Jesus is God. Yes he is, but he is not his own Father is he? And he calls his Father His God. If he is the Father then he would not speak of having a father would he?So can he be Father and Son? God's Spirit is everywhere but God lives in heaven.Quote (liljon @ Dec. 29 2004,21:41) God can be in two (or more) places at once and my previous post proves he is god
Hi liljon,Angels are called gods in the Bible. Would you say that means that angels are God Almighty because of this?
Quote (liljon @ Dec. 29 2004,21:52) Where? Psalm 8:5 in LXX says Angels not elohim
This makes no difference as the Hebrew texts were translated into the Greek LXX and they are both the Bible. The Jewish scribes understood that angels were sometimes called gods, and therefore translated the word 'elohim' as 'angels'. Therefore, this shows that what I am saying is true. Here is another example:'I will praise you, O Lord, with all my heart before the gods (Psalm 138:1, NIV)
'In the presence of the angels I play to you' (Psalm 138:1, Jerusalem Bible)
Jesus is the highest Name in the kingdom of God under God Himself. He is God too but is not God Almighty who is his Father and his God.
There more than two. The other sons of God are called gods and Jesus said men also are called gods. Then there are false gods and idols. Some worship angels as gods and some worship wood and stone as gods.
But in another sense there is only One God for us to worship and that is the Father whom Jesus also worships.
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