The Trinity Doctrine

[Unisage]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 09 2007,12:05)

Amazing how the Unbelievers make these bold claims against the truth and yet do not have any truth to defend. No scriptures to support there belief. They just run around claiming that they have the truth yet show us no scripture to back it up. All they know how to do is accuse the brethren and we know what spirit that comes from.

Oh I can back it up.There is no doubt that I can..The Problem is you cant.With out hitting the Ejection button..I just did with the Holy Spirit.You say it is Seperate.. I just proved it was not.

I do believe it is a open and shut case here whos teaching is False!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Unisage @ May 09 2007,10:50)

If the Father is separate from the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a serperate person from them, then who is Jesus's father? Mt.1:18-20 reads, Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. Why is the Holy Spirit never Stated as sitting on or standing near the throne as are the Father and the Son? Acts 7:55,56; Col.3:1; and Rev.5:1-9; 7:10 I do not even see an empty throne for him. 1 Cor.11:3 gives a Rank in which women, men, and Christ each have a head with God.. As God the Father being the uppermost in authority. Where is the Holy Spirit? Eph.5:5 tells us the “kingdom” that believers shall inherit is of Christ and of God.. Why is the Kingdom not of the Holy Spirit as well? The Father and the Son talk with each other, but why don't they converse with the Holy Spirit? The truth is God is the Holy Spirit!

Of course you cant seperate “Them”, for they are One Spirit!

Question for the Arian followers, (those who do not have a Trinitarian view).

How do you reconcile the folowing scriptures from an Arian view?

Rom 8:
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 Cor 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

2 Cor 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to *drink into one Spirit*.

Eph 2:18
For through him we both have access *by one Spirit* unto the Father.

Eph 4:4
There is one body, and *ONE Spirit*, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2 Cor 3:17
Now the Lord(Kurios) is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord(Kurios) is, there is liberty.

2 Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus (Yeshua)Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Jn 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

As you can see these scriptures state there is the Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, the Spirit, Spirit of Him, His Spirit, Comforter all gloriously united together as One Spirit, which Paul calls the Spirit of God.

When someone accepts Jesus into their heart does the Spirit of Christ or God or the Comforter come to live in them?

How many Spirits do they recieve?

One Spirit, Three Persons, One God!

You say…

Quote

The Father and the Son talk with each other, but why don't they converse with the Holy Spirit?

John 15:
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine*, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*.

Looks like the Holy Spirit is listening to someone speaking to him and then he is showing and speaking to us the things that he hears.

Unless you want to say it is the Father being subservient to the Son in verse 15.

How do you explain this???  

[NickHassan]

Quote (Tim2 @ May 09 2007,17:49)

Hi Nick, Romans 10:9-13 say we must confess the Lord Jesus, that the same is Lord over all, and that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, the last one being a quotation of Joel 2:32, which says everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved.   It seems to me the only alternative to Jesus being YHWH is that Paul is saying we call on the name of a lord other than YHWH to be saved, which would be a contradiction of Joel 2:32. Tim

Hi Tim2,
Certainly the fruit of our salvation must come from our lips. From the mouth comes what the heart is full of and no man can say Jesus is Lord without the Spirit.
But surely you did not think that Romans 10 was the MEANS of our salvation? Surely you do not think it is the WAY of Jesus?
No quote marks in my bible and I think you will find it is one of those verses applied both to God and Jesus just as Heb 1.10 is. Of course this is nonsense to offer as any kind of evidence they are the same being.

[Unisage]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 10 2007,04:40)

Quote (Unisage @ May 09 2007,10:50) If the Father is separate from the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a serperate person from them, then who is Jesus's father? Mt.1:18-20 reads, Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. Why is the Holy Spirit never Stated as sitting on or standing near the throne as are the Father and the Son? Acts 7:55,56; Col.3:1; and Rev.5:1-9; 7:10 I do not even see an empty throne for him. 1 Cor.11:3 gives a Rank in which women, men, and Christ each have a head with God.. As God the Father being the uppermost in authority. Where is the Holy Spirit? Eph.5:5 tells us the “kingdom” that believers shall inherit is of Christ and of God.. Why is the Kingdom not of the Holy Spirit as well? The Father and the Son talk with each other, but why don't they converse with the Holy Spirit? The truth is God is the Holy Spirit! Of course you cant seperate “Them”, for they are One Spirit! Question for the Arian followers, (those who do not have a Trinitarian view). How do you reconcile the folowing scriptures from an Arian view? Rom 8: 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to *drink into one Spirit*. Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access *by one Spirit* unto the Father. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and *ONE Spirit*, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord(Kurios) is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord(Kurios) is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus (Yeshua)Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? Jn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. As you can see these scriptures state there is the Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, the Spirit, Spirit of Him, His Spirit, Comforter all gloriously united together as One Spirit, which Paul calls the Spirit of God. When someone accepts Jesus into their heart does the Spirit of Christ or God or the Comforter come to live in them? How many Spirits do they recieve? One Spirit, Three Persons, One God! You say… Quote The Father and the Son talk with each other, but why don't they converse with the Holy Spirit? John 15: 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine*, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*. Looks like the Holy Spirit is listening to someone speaking to him and then he is showing and speaking to us the things that he hears. Unless you want to say it is the Father being subservient to the Son in verse 15. How do you explain this???

How about the word Union and

Galatians 4:6
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts[/B], crying out, “Abba, Father!”

Lets see here God is Spirit.. God is the Holy Spirit and God the father sent the Spirit of “”””HIS SON”””” into our HEARTS!

[NickHassan]

Hi U,
Why do people wish to divide the Spirit of God?
The Spirit is One.
Not one by addition of three.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Unisage @ May 10 2007,16:33)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 10 2007,04:40) Quote (Unisage @ May 09 2007,10:50) If the Father is separate from the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a serperate person from them, then who is Jesus's father? Mt.1:18-20 reads, Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. Why is the Holy Spirit never Stated as sitting on or standing near the throne as are the Father and the Son? Acts 7:55,56; Col.3:1; and Rev.5:1-9; 7:10 I do not even see an empty throne for him. 1 Cor.11:3 gives a Rank in which women, men, and Christ each have a head with God.. As God the Father being the uppermost in authority. Where is the Holy Spirit? Eph.5:5 tells us the “kingdom” that believers shall inherit is of Christ and of God.. Why is the Kingdom not of the Holy Spirit as well? The Father and the Son talk with each other, but why don't they converse with the Holy Spirit? The truth is God is the Holy Spirit! Of course you cant seperate “Them”, for they are One Spirit! Question for the Arian followers, (those who do not have a Trinitarian view). How do you reconcile the folowing scriptures from an Arian view? Rom 8: 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to *drink into one Spirit*. Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access *by one Spirit* unto the Father. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and *ONE Spirit*, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord(Kurios) is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord(Kurios) is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus (Yeshua)Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? Jn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. As you can see these scriptures state there is the Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, the Spirit, Spirit of Him, His Spirit, Comforter all gloriously united together as One Spirit, which Paul calls the Spirit of God. When someone accepts Jesus into their heart does the Spirit of Christ or God or the Comforter come to live in them? How many Spirits do they recieve? One Spirit, Three Persons, One God! You say… Quote The Father and the Son talk with each other, but why don't they converse with the Holy Spirit? John 15: 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine*, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*. Looks like the Holy Spirit is listening to someone speaking to him and then he is showing and speaking to us the things that he hears. Unless you want to say it is the Father being subservient to the Son in verse 15. How do you explain this???   How about the word Union and Galatians 4:6   6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts[/B], crying out, “Abba, Father!” Lets see here God is Spirit.. God is the Holy Spirit and God the father sent the Spirit of “”””HIS SON”””” into our HEARTS!

Carefull!

You are making a Trinitarian argument.

God is Spirit! “The Father”
1 Cor 3:16, 2 Cor 6:16

There is the Spirit of the Son. “Yeshua”
Gal 4:6, Rom 8:9, 2 Cor 13:15

And as John 15:15 shows there is the Comforter! “Holy Spirit”
Jn 14:16, Jn 15:13-15, Jn 16:7

Yet by these scriptures they all live in us as one Spirit.

1 Cor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to *drink into one Spirit*.

Eph 4:4
There is one body, and *ONE Spirit*, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Spirit, Three Persons, One God.

This is the only way to harmonize these scriptures as well as many others.

This argument was settled Centurys ago. Yet the Arians still stumble over it.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 10 2007,16:50)

Hi U, Why do people wish to divide the Spirit of God? The Spirit is One. Not one by addition of three.

NH

There is no dividing the Spirit of God.

God is One Spirit.

How about you giving me your understanding of these scriptures.

Please break them down for me.

If you have no answer then why dont you just believe them?

[Is 1:18]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 10 2007,17:25)

Carefull! You are making a Trinitarian argument.

He he…quite true WJ. You walked right into that one Unisage…..

[Unisage]

Nick there is no dividing of us either.For the Body has many members but still one body.

[Unisage]

Oh I know I got tobe careful..I be back later..Im going to bed.I cant see staight as it is..But I will Hit on it if I have enough time later.It is now 200 Am here..

Good nite.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
So there are three in the One Holy Spirit?
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?
How can the Holy Spirit be a person then?

[Unisage]

Mt 12:32
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
See Mark 3:28-30 Luke 12:10 also….

Mark 3:28-30 – 28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
Luke 12:10 – 10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

If Jesus and His Father are one in the same, why is speaking against Jesus Son of man or the Son of God something for which one can be forgiven but speaking against the Holy Spirit “””God”””, since “God is a Spirit” – John 4:24 never forgivable?

Now this pose a problem since Alot of People believe Jesus is God!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Unisage @ May 11 2007,01:29)

Mt 12:32 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. See Mark 3:28-30 Luke 12:10 also…. Mark 3:28-30 – 28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. Luke 12:10 – 10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. If Jesus and His Father are one in the same, why is speaking against Jesus Son of man or the Son of God something for which one can be forgiven but speaking against the Holy Spirit “””God”””, since “God is a Spirit” – John 4:24 never forgivable? Now this pose a problem since Alot of People believe Jesus is God!

Simply Put!

Because it is the Spirit that brings us to Christ.

But this still does not address the scriptures in the post showing unambiguously that God is One Spirit, and that there are three persons dwelling in us.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 10 2007,20:00)

Hi W, So there are three in the One Holy Spirit? The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit? How can the Holy Spirit be a person then?

NH

Ask Yeshua. He said the Spirit was a “HE” that recieves from him and gives unto us.

Yet we know there is One selfsame Spirit that we have been made to drink into which is called in scriptures, “The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ and the Comfoter.”

This same Spirit is found in Revelation proceeding from the Throne…

Rev 22:10
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, *proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb*.

Is it so hard to see that the Spirit is a person and yet believe he is a river of life.

Yeshua said he was the Bread of Life, and the Blood that we eat and drink.

This is not a type, he literally is the bread of life and the blood that we drink.

Shall we be like the unbelievers and leave him because we dont understand or because these are hard sayings?

Jn 6:60
Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

Jn 6:
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, *that no man can come unto me*, except it were given unto him of my Father.
6:66 *From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him*.

It is written.

So either you hold on to your Arian view or you believe the scriptures and follow Jesus.

Which is it NH?

[Unisage]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 10 2007,17:25)

Quote (Unisage @ May 10 2007,16:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 10 2007,04:40) Quote (Unisage @ May 09 2007,10:50) If the Father is separate from the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a serperate person from them, then who is Jesus's father? Mt.1:18-20 reads, Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. Why is the Holy Spirit never Stated as sitting on or standing near the throne as are the Father and the Son? Acts 7:55,56; Col.3:1; and Rev.5:1-9; 7:10 I do not even see an empty throne for him. 1 Cor.11:3 gives a Rank in which women, men, and Christ each have a head with God.. As God the Father being the uppermost in authority. Where is the Holy Spirit? Eph.5:5 tells us the “kingdom” that believers shall inherit is of Christ and of God.. Why is the Kingdom not of the Holy Spirit as well? The Father and the Son talk with each other, but why don't they converse with the Holy Spirit? The truth is God is the Holy Spirit! Of course you cant seperate “Them”, for they are One Spirit! Question for the Arian followers, (those who do not have a Trinitarian view). How do you reconcile the folowing scriptures from an Arian view? Rom 8: 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to *drink into one Spirit*. Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access *by one Spirit* unto the Father. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and *ONE Spirit*, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord(Kurios) is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord(Kurios) is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus (Yeshua)Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? Jn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. As you can see these scriptures state there is the Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, the Spirit, Spirit of Him, His Spirit, Comforter all gloriously united together as One Spirit, which Paul calls the Spirit of God. When someone accepts Jesus into their heart does the Spirit of Christ or God or the Comforter come to live in them? How many Spirits do they recieve? One Spirit, Three Persons, One God! You say… Quote The Father and the Son talk with each other, but why don't they converse with the Holy Spirit? John 15: 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine*, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*. Looks like the Holy Spirit is listening to someone speaking to him and then he is showing and speaking to us the things that he hears. Unless you want to say it is the Father being subservient to the Son in verse 15. How do you explain this???   How about the word Union and Galatians 4:6   6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts[/B], crying out, “Abba, Father!” Lets see here God is Spirit.. God is the Holy Spirit and God the father sent the Spirit of “”””HIS SON”””” into our HEARTS! Carefull! You are making a Trinitarian argument. God is Spirit! “The Father” 1 Cor 3:16, 2 Cor 6:16 There is the Spirit of the Son. “Yeshua” Gal 4:6, Rom 8:9, 2 Cor 13:15 And as John 15:15 shows there is the Comforter! “Holy Spirit” Jn 14:16, Jn 15:13-15, Jn 16:7 Yet by these scriptures they all live in us as one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to *drink into one Spirit*. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and *ONE Spirit*, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Spirit, Three Persons, One God. This is the only way to harmonize these scriptures as well as many others. This argument was settled Centurys ago. Yet the Arians still stumble over it.

Wj

This should answer your other question on the other post as well…….

It is said by some people in this forum that the Holy Spirit has personal attributes and therefore is a person. Among a few of these attributes are that the Holy Spirit searches the deep things of God.It speaks, cries out, intercedes, gives Testimony,leads or directs us,commands us,can be lied to.. can be grieved.etc,etc…

1 Corinthians 2:10

10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Revelation 2:7
7He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Galatians 4:6
6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Romans 8:26
26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

John 15:26
26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Romans 8:14
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Acts 16:6-7
6Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,

7After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.

Acts 5:3
3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Ephesians 4:30
30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

BUT..The Holy Spirit also has attributes that cannot be applied to a person… it fills people, can be poured out, is upon people, people can drink it,it is a down payment, it is a seal,it is symbolic ink, etc,etc….

Acts 2:4
4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:17-18
17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Acts 19:6
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied

1 Corinthians 12:13
13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

2 Corinthians 1:22
22Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

2 Corinthians 3:3
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

WJ Now watch and see what Paul said.. Read. Romans.8:9-10..

Romans 8:9-10
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

The Spirit of Jesus Christ dwells in us, but verse 10 tells us it is Christ himself. The same holds true for God's Spirit. It is the mind, affections, and will of Almighty GOD. So the Holy Spirit's personal attributes are those of GOD the Father and Jesus dwelling within us. It is their personalities and dispositions. God the Father has given Jesus Christ the full measure of His Holy Spirit ..John 3:34 ..For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. AND..Colossians 1:19…Their spirits are united in one and are placed within believers.. John 15:26.And Romans 8:9-11.though not in its fullness. On the other hand, since the Spirit also has non personal attributes, we should attribute that to the fact that the Holy Spirit is God's power or influence.That the Holy Spirit is the power of God can be seen in the following verses..

Romans 8:11

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 Corinthians 6:14
14And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

Ephesians 1:19-20
19And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Those verses clearly show that the power of God is His Holy Spirit and by that Spirit He resurrected His Son.In Eph.3:20 it states..Now unto Him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, …What power works in us? The power known as the Holy Spirit.

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.Luke 1:35
Did a person or a spirit being mate with Mary or did God's miraculous power cause the conception?

And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.Luke24:49.

Now Wj what was that that from a Arian still stumble over it?
I dont belong to your so called divided Groups of Religion.

[Unisage]

Matter afact there is Only two Groups.One is the AntiChrist and the Other is not!

That is the Only two groups I know….

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

WJ Now watch and see what Paul said.. Read. Romans.8:9-10.. Romans 8:9-10 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 8:9-10
9 but ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

If Paul calls the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ as is shown in this verse and that Spirit dwells in us, and Christ dwells in us, and we know that we have been made to drink into “One Selfsame Spirit”, then that means the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ, which means that Christ is God.

For the Lord is that Spirit.

But how many Spirits do we have?

We have One Spirit.

How do you reconcile this with John 16:13-15 which shows that the Comforter is subservient to the Son.

Yet we also know that the Father who is Spirit dwells in us.

All the scriptures you mention joined together with what I have mentioned leaves only one conclusion without leaving some out or contradicting each other.

To harmonize “ALL” the scriptures the only conclusion is a Trinitarian view.

One Spirit, Three Persons, One God.

Hence Trinitarian.

I mention Arians because history shows the big debate was between Arius who didnt believe Christ was God, and Athanasius who did.

Just as Trinitarians are “accused” of following Athanasius and Constantine because of their Trinitarian beliefs, so it is with the non believers who follow Arius anti Trinitarian belief.

The debate still rages.

You are right, there are two camps, those who dont believe the Word/God came in the flesh which is anti Christ and those who believe that the Word/God came in the flesh.

Unfortunatly we have two Jesus,s being preached.

One side believes he is just a mere man like we are. The other believes Jesus is both God and man, the Monogenes “Unique” Son of God.

One dosnt believe it is possible for an infinantly powerfull God to come in the flesh, who said “all things are possible for him” and “nothing is to hard for him”.

The other believes it is possible and that as the Hebrew scriptures proclaim…

Is 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? *and there is no God else beside me*; a just *God and a Saviour; there is none beside me*.

Hsa 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and *thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me*.

Yet we have men running around calling Jesus Lord and Master and at the same time saying he is just a mere man, anointed prophet, like the prophets of old, or he is just an empty vessel or a funnel for God, or a puppet on a string with no will or power of his own, and all kinds of foolishness.

They even deny that he is the creator of “all things and that without him was not anything made that was made”.

Jesus said…

Matt 6:24
*No man can serve two masters*: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You ask
“How do you reconcile this with John 16:13-15 which shows that the Comforter is subservient to the Son.”
That is a problem of your own making because the Son is man and the Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God given to him.

[Unisage]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 11 2007,07:09)

Quote WJ Now watch and see what Paul said.. Read. Romans.8:9-10.. Romans 8:9-10 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Romans 8:9-10 9 but ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If Paul calls the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ as is shown in this verse and that Spirit dwells in us, and Christ dwells in us, and we know that we have been made to drink into “One Selfsame Spirit”, then that means the Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ, which means that Christ is God. For the Lord is that Spirit. But how many Spirits do we have? We have One Spirit. How do you reconcile this with John 16:13-15 which shows that the Comforter is subservient to the Son. Yet we also know that the Father who is Spirit dwells in us. All the scriptures you mention joined together with what I have mentioned leaves only one conclusion without leaving some out or contradicting each other. To harmonize “ALL” the scriptures the only conclusion is a Trinitarian view. One Spirit, Three Persons, One God. Hence Trinitarian. I mention Arians because history shows the big debate was between Arius who didnt believe Christ was God, and Athanasius who did. Just as Trinitarians are “accused” of following Athanasius and Constantine because of their Trinitarian beliefs, so it is with the non believers who follow Arius anti Trinitarian belief. The debate still rages. You are right, there are two camps, those who dont believe the Word/God came in the flesh which is anti Christ and those who believe that the Word/God came in the flesh. Unfortunatly we have two Jesus,s being preached. One side believes he is just a mere man like we are. The other believes Jesus is both God and man, the Monogenes “Unique” Son of God. One dosnt believe it is possible for an infinantly powerfull God to come in the flesh, who said “all things are possible for him” and “nothing is to hard for him”. The other believes it is possible and that as the Hebrew scriptures proclaim… Is 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? *and there is no God else beside me*; a just *God and a Saviour; there is none beside me*. Hsa 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and *thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me*. Yet we have men running around calling Jesus Lord and Master and at the same time saying he is just a mere man, anointed prophet, like the prophets of old, or he is just an empty vessel or a funnel for God, or a puppet on a string with no will or power of his own, and all kinds of foolishness. They even deny that he is the creator of “all things and that without him was not anything made that was made”. Jesus said… Matt 6:24 *No man can serve two masters*: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.

WJ

What you try to prove that the Holy Spirit is a Seperate person..

I just proved how he was not.

It is your own misunderstanding not mine..

Quote

You are right, there are two camps, those who dont believe the Word/God came in the flesh which is anti Christ and those who believe that the Word/God came in the flesh.

I hold the upper hand you dont..You dont have the ground to walk on.If John wanted us to believe it was God who came in the Flesh he would a written as Such.But he didnt. Now you have a Major problem.

1John 4:2
This is how you may recognize the spirit of God: Every spirit which acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in the flesh is from God, and every spirit which does not thus acknowledge Jesus is not from God.

2John 7

Many deceivers have gone into the world who do not accept that Jesus came as a human being. Here is the deceiver and the antichrist.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 11 2007,08:50)

Hi W, You ask “How do you reconcile this with John 16:13-15 which shows that the Comforter is subservient to the Son.” That is a problem of your own making because the Son is man and the Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God given to him.

NH

No it is not my problem.

I know what it means.

Apparantly you dont believe these scriptures do you?

Jn 16:
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *he shall not speak of himself*; but whatsoever he shall hear, *that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
14 *He shall glorify me*: for he shall receive of mine, *and shall shew it unto you*.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he (the Spirit) *shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*.

   

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