The Trinity Doctrine

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.v.ii.html

Participant

One Spirit, Three Persons, One God!

The Father

2 Cor 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, *I will dwell in them, and walk in them;* and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and **we** will come unto him, and make our abode with him*.

This is the Father living in us.

In fact the above verse says both the Father and the Son will come and dwell within us!

The Son

Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the *Spirit of God dwell in you.* Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby *we cry, Abba, Father*.

2 Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that *Jesus Christ is in you*, except ye be reprobates?

Gal 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the *Spirit of his Son* into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

2 Cor 3:17
Now the *Lord is that Spirit*: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

And so we see that the Son, Yeshua Messiah, Jesus Christ,
lives in us!

The Holy Spirit

Jn 14:6
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you *another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;

Jn 16:6
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, *I will send him unto you*.

Jn 16
13 Howbeit when “he”, the Spirit of truth, is come, “he” will guide you into all truth: for “he” shall not speak of “himself”; but whatsoever “he” shall hear, that shall “he” speak: and “he” will shew you things to come.
14 “He” shall glorify me: for “he” shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Acts 2:4
And they were all *filled with the Holy Ghost*, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

And of course here we see the Comforter living in us and filling us!

So we have the Father, Son, And Holy Spirit living in us by these scriptures.

Can anyone show me how these scriptures say anything else?

Now, since we know that there is *One Spirit* we read…

1 Cor 12:13
For by *one Spirit* are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been *all made to drink into one Spirit.*

Eph 2:18
For through him we both have access by *one Spirit* unto the Father.

Ehp 4:4
There is one body, and *one Spirit*, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Then to stay in harmony with the scriptures we conclude that there is…… ONE SPIRIT, THREE PERSONS, and ONE GOD!

The above is confirmed by the following scriptures…

2 Cor 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Matt 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the *name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost*:

This is a good test for the Unbelievers the Unitarians and the Henotheist and the followers of Arian.

Acoording to the above scriptures, ask yourself…

Does the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit live in you?

Ignatious a desciple of the Beloved John wrote…

*For our God, Jesus Christ*, now that He is with [or in] the Father, is all the more revealed [in his glory]. Christianity is not a thing of silence only, but also of [manifest] greatness.

Some of them say that the Son is a mere man, and that *the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are but the same person*, and that the creation is the work of God, not by Christ, but by some other strange power.

Be on your guard, therefore, against such persons. And this will be the case with you if you are not puffed up, and continue in intimate union with *Jesus Christ our God*, and the bishop, and the enactments of the apostles.

Without the whiteout, you have, One Spirit, Three Persons, and One God!!!

May 6, 2007 at 1:18 am#51462

Participant

So tell me which God died on the cross?

May 6, 2007 at 2:43 am#51468

Participant

Quote (Tim2 @ May 05 2007,17:40)

Unisage,

John 15:26: “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who preceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me.”

If the Holy Spirit is the Father, then this verse would read, “When the Father comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Father who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me.”

That makes no sense! The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

Tim

is the Holy Spirit another God?

How many Gods do you know tim?

May 6, 2007 at 8:13 pm#51530

Tim2

Participant

Unisage,

Please read the ecumenical creeds: http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html

It sounds like you're rushing to judgment based on assumptions that I can sympathize with but that need to be reconsidered in light of the Bible's witness. Your assumption is that only the Father is God, probably because John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6, and Ephesians 4:6 state that the Father is the only God. But look at those verses again. They say the Father is the only God. They don't say that only the Father is God. There is a difference between “X is the only Y” and “Only X is Y,” but we it's not usual for us because we think in terms of matter, which does not have the ability to exist in more than one subsistence at one time. But we can't assume that God is subject to the same limitations as matter. It is possible that there is only one God, and that three different persons are this one God. That is what the Trinity is saying. That is what the Bible is saying. And John 15:26 is saying that the Holy Spirit is not the Father. That's explicit. If your assumptions don't allow you to believe John 15:26, then your assumptions need to change.

Tim

May 6, 2007 at 8:14 pm#51531

Participant

Hi Tim2,
Why stop at three gods?

May 7, 2007 at 2:37 am#51546

Participant

Tim

My bible tells me there is Only One God and there is no other “GODS” beside him.God is not a two persons or three.Nor is God Split into many gods…

The God of Israel is ONE GOD.

Deuteronomy 6:4
4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Isaiah 45:5

5I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Mark 12:29
29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one.

1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Galatians 3:20
Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

1 Corinthians 8:4

4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

Isaiah 46:9

9Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

2 Samuel 22:32

32 “For who is God, except the LORD?
And who is a rock, except our God?

So Tim I just proved to you that there is Only One God.. Why do you deny that the Holy Spirit is God ?You say the Holy Spirit is seperate and a “Person” But yet you claim it is God.. But not the Father. Where the Logic in this??You follow a Trinity that goes aganist the word of God.

May 7, 2007 at 4:15 am#51554

Participant

Hi,
The light shining from scripture exposes the trinity theory as an outlandish and outdated attempt by men, adding logic and inference to scripture to try and grasp the nature of God. It was imposed as an essential doctrine by the more educated clergy on the ignorant masses. They would be better never to have meddled with the truth 1800 years ago but no man now has any excuses since all have easy access to bibles and can check for themselves what is written and work from there. Sadly they now lean on tradition as the basis of what they believe as it is more popular and requires less work.

May 7, 2007 at 5:53 am#51569

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.v.ii.html

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 05 2007,18:07)

One Spirit, Three Persons, One God!

The Father

Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and **we** will come unto him, and make our abode with him*.

This is the Father living in us.

In fact the above verse says both the Father and the Son will come and dwell within us!

The Son

Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the *Spirit of God dwell in you.* Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby *we cry, Abba, Father*.

2 Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that *Jesus Christ is in you*, except ye be reprobates?

Gal 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the *Spirit of his Son* into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

2 Cor 3:17
Now the *Lord is that Spirit*: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

And so we see that the Son, Yeshua Messiah, Jesus Christ,
lives in us!

The Holy Spirit

Jn 14:6
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you *another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;

Jn 16:6
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, *I will send him unto you*.

Acts 2:4
And they were all *filled with the Holy Ghost*, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

And of course here we see the Comforter living in us and filling us!

So we have the Father, Son, And Holy Spirit living in us by these scriptures.

Can anyone show me how these scriptures say anything else?

Now, since we know that there is *One Spirit* we read…

1 Cor 12:13
For by *one Spirit* are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been *all made to drink into one Spirit.*

Eph 2:18
For through him we both have access by *one Spirit* unto the Father.

Ehp 4:4
There is one body, and *one Spirit*, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Then to stay in harmony with the scriptures we conclude that there is…… ONE SPIRIT, THREE PERSONS, and ONE GOD!

The above is confirmed by the following scriptures…

2 Cor 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Matt 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the *name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost*:

This is a good test for the Unbelievers the Unitarians and the Henotheist and the followers of Arian.

Acoording to the above scriptures, ask yourself…

Does the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit live in you?

Ignatious a desciple of the Beloved John wrote…

*For our God, Jesus Christ*, now that He is with [or in] the Father, is all the more revealed [in his glory]. Christianity is not a thing of silence only, but also of [manifest] greatness.

Without the whiteout, you have, One Spirit, Three Persons, and One God!!!

Hi.

The Eternal Spirit of Jesus the Word/God, did not die, nor could he!

Jesus went to Hades for three days and three nights.

His Body died!

The life of the flesh is in the blood. Jesus gave up the Ghost, the life that he laid down was the life of his flesh. But Yeshua also after he preached to the souls in hades raised his own body from the dead.

It was only the Body and blood of Jesus that had to die. He was and is the Resurrection and the Life, the Eternal life that was with the Father.

Eternal life can not die!

Matt 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, *but are not able to kill the soul*: but rather fear him *which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell*.

Could they kill the Soul/Spirit of Jesus? Did the Father kill his soul/Spirit?

Acts 2:31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

1 Peter 3:
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, *being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit*:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Those who have accepted Christ “Has Eternal Life”, that life of whom Christ is. 1 Jn 1:1,2.

If the Lord tarrys, we will die a physical death, but to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

The Eternal God the Word, did not die. He offered his body as a living sacrifice, as the Lamb of God and shed his life and blood for us.

Heb 10:
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, *Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.*
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offere
d by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and *without shedding of blood is no remission*.

Jesus said it is finished. He fulfilled his priestly duty in the offering of his body and the spilling of his blood.

So the straw that God died?

God gave his body and that was all that was required.

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed *the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

May 7, 2007 at 6:53 am#51571

Participant

pssst w,
The invisible, immortal God is a Spirit and has no flesh body.
You have mixed Him up with His Son again.

May 7, 2007 at 6:17 pm#51589

Tim2

Participant

Quote

Ok, Unisage, let's just put everything aside except the Bible, ok?

So first, we both agree the Bible says there is only one God, and that the Father is that God. I agree, you agree, right?
Second, we both agree that the Holy Spirit is the one and only God. Right?
Now, putting aside any assumptions you might make based on the fact that the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is the same God, look at the following verses from John 14 and 15:

John 14:16 -“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever.”
John 14:26 -“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things.”
John 15:26 -“When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me.”

Now Unisage, given that the Holy Spirit is God, we have only two choices when dealing with these verses. One is to say that the Holy Spirit is the Father, so that these verses read, “I will ask the Father, and He will give you the Father,” and “But the Helper, the Father, whom the Father will send in my name,” and, “When the Father comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Father who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me.”

The other choice is to recognize that Jesus is clearly talking about someone other than the Father when He mentions the Helper. This is the clear witness of Scripture. The only reason you would deny is if you believed that because the Father and the Holy Spirit are the same God, they must be the same person, but that is not stated anywhere in Scripture.

Please just look at those verses in John 14 and 15 and explain how it is possible that the Holy Spirit is the Father.

Thanks,
Tim

May 7, 2007 at 10:00 pm#51609

Participant

Hi Tim2,
If you find an apparent conundrum in scripture that does not give you permission to add inference and logic to resolve it. Scripture shows scripture.

May 7, 2007 at 10:55 pm#51621

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 08 2007,10:00)

Hi Tim2,
If you find an apparent conundrum in scripture that does not give you permission to add inference and logic to resolve it. Scripture shows scripture.

And you dont have permission not to believe the words of Jesus and be his follower do you?

May 7, 2007 at 11:01 pm#51622

Participant

Hi W,
Show me where what Tim 2 teaches about the Spirit being a person is written and we can go from there.
Otherwise it remains speculative.

May 7, 2007 at 11:51 pm#51629

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 08 2007,11:01)

Hi W,
Show me where what Tim 2 teaches about the Spirit being a person is written and we can go from there.
Otherwise it remains speculative.

He just did!

What does he mean.

Those are the words of Yeshua!

Using the white out again NH?

May 7, 2007 at 11:56 pm#51632

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 07 2007,18:53)

pssst w,
The invisible, immortal God is a Spirit and has no flesh body.
You have mixed Him up with His Son again.

PSST

How do you eat his flesh and drink his blood then?

May 8, 2007 at 1:22 am#51647

Participant

Hi W,
Daily and with joy.
You should love and abide in his teachings too and stop kicking against the goad

May 8, 2007 at 1:28 am#51650

Participant

Quote (Tim2 @ May 08 2007,06:17)

Quote

Ok, Unisage, let's just put everything aside except the Bible, ok?

Please just look at those verses in John 14 and 15 and explain how it is possible that the Holy Spirit is the Father.

Thanks,
Tim

Tim

You are missing the whole point…

Tim do you see three Suns from the Earth? Of course not it would be insane to say that.But why do you teach it? Now you are thinking>> Unisage has Just lost his Marbles.No.. Just bare with me hehehe..Tim why do you teach there are Three suns when I READ there is Only One?Why do you seperate the Sun? I know you are really thinking Unisage really lost his Marbles.Just bare with me..You see tim If there is only one Sun how can there be warmth and light from it?But still consider it to be One Sun? It is the same way with God and his Holy Spirit.There is Only one God but everything comes from this One God. Do you understand now how this can be so?

May 8, 2007 at 4:48 am#51671

Tim2

Participant

Unisage,

I don't think you've lost your marbles.

I agree that there is only one God, and everything comes from God.

Will you please explain to me how the Holy Spirit can be the Father in light of John 14 and 15?

Tim

May 8, 2007 at 5:16 am#51674

Participant

Tim

I just told you in a way so that you can understand.

Tim

You see that “”O”” that is One God.How do you get the Holy Spirit from that?

May 8, 2007 at 5:21 am#51676