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There is nothing the Father does that the Son doesn't do.
AND
No one can do everything that God does except God.
***************************************************Tim,
Tell me what the difference is between these two sentences?God cannot be part subordinate created god.
**********Exactly! That's why the trinity is not true!
God cannot be part subordinate……………remember “fully God and fully Man” – this is an example of God needing to be “part” subordinate in Jesus, am I wrong?
Well, the Father is God. We agree on that. Everything the Father does, the Son also does. That's explicit in John 5:19-20. So, given that no one can do everything that God does, except God, this would mean that the Son is God.
Tim
Hi Not3in1,
I understand how you would think that. That is why the Definition of Chalcedon and Athanasian Creed were written, to clear up the confusion. Jesus is both God and man. But His Godhead doesn't mix or confuse with His manhood. Each nature retains its own properties and does not fuse with the other nature. The natures are united only by reason of unity of person. So there are two natures, and one person.
So God does not have parts. All of God is present in Jesus, united with his manhood by being in the same person. But the manhood is not a part of God.
The temptation is to respond to this by calling it nonsensical, philosophical reasoning. But the only other explanations are (1) Jesus is not God, (2) Jesus is not man, or (3) Jesus has an altogether new nature, Godhead mixed with manhood. This last one is apparently what you believe. I urge you to reconsider and see that the natures are not mixed.
Tim
Hi Tim2,
If only God can raise the dead you are going to have to expand the trinity to include Peter and Paul and more.But the reason the Son does what the Father does is because the Father shows him what he is doing. Right?
And because God *gives* authority to the Son, he can carry out the Father's commands.It all sounds like a very healthy Father-Son relationship to me?
Quote And, how are we then one with the Father and the Son? Hi 94.
“that they [his followers] may be one, even as we [Jesus and his Father] are one:”
Jesus followers are one in the same sense that Jesus and his Father are.
Since no one holds that this scripture about Jesus followers being one in any way demonstrates anything like the trinity, I find it incredibly hard to see how trinitarians can take the “one” with Jesus and his Father to mean that.
They are one, “even as” the Father and Son are one.Quote Nevertheless, for all the denominations and differences over countless points of doctrine, the doctrine of the Trinity is unchallenged in every denomination. Quote And who are the rest of the anti-trinitarians? Thousands of stubborn individuals I agree that there are extremely few groups who disbelieve the trinity. I'm not completely certain the mormons are one of those groups.
Anyway, here is what wikipedia says:Nontrinitarian Christian groups
* American Unitarian Conference
* Arian Catholicism
* Arianism
* Bible Students
* Christadelphians
* Christian Conventions a non-denominational group which publishes no dogmatic positions, but which a majority of observers classify as non-Trinitarian
* Church of Christ, Scientist
* Church of God General Conference (Abrahamic Faith)
* Church of the Blessed Hope (Church of God of the Abrahamic Faith; not part of General Conference, see below)
* Creation Seventh Day Adventism
* Doukhobors
* Higher Ground Online
* Jehovah's Witnesses
* Living Church of God
* Living Hope International Ministries
* Molokan
* Monarchianism
* New Church
* Oneness Pentecostals
* Polish Brethren
* Socinianism
* The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church; see also Mormon)
* The Way International
* Unification Church
* Unitarian Christians
* Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship** Independent affiliates of the Unitarian Universalist Association
[edit] Other nontrinitarian groups
* Iglesia ni Cristo
* True Jesus Church[edit] Nontrinitarian people
* Natalius [2], ~200
* Sabellius, ~220
* Paul of Samosata, 269
* Arius, 336
* Eusebius of Nicomedia, 341, baptized Constantine
* Constantius II, Byzantine Emperor, 361
* Antipope Felix II, 365
* Aëtius, 367
* Ulfilas, Apostle to the Goths, 383
* Priscillian, 385, considered first Christian to be executed for heresy
* Muhammad, 632, see also Isa
* Ludwig Haetzer, 1529
* Juan de Valdés, 1541
* Michael Servetus, 1553, burned at the stake in Geneva under John Calvin
* Sebastian Castellio, 1563
* Ferenc Dávid, 1579
* Fausto Paolo Sozzini, 1604
* John Biddle, 1662
* Thomas Aikenhead, 1697, last person to be hanged for blasphemy in Britain
* John Locke, 1704
* Isaac Newton, 1727
* William Whiston, 1752, expelled from University of Cambridge in 1710
* Jonathan Mayhew, 1766
* Emanuel Swedenborg, 1772
* Benjamin Franklin, 1790
* Joseph Priestley, 1804
* Joseph Smith, 1805
* Thomas Paine, 1809
* Thomas Jefferson, 1826
* James Madison, 1836
* William Ellery Channing, 1842
* Robert Hibbert, 1849
* John Thomas (Christadelphian), 1871
* Ralph Waldo Emerson, 1882
* Benjamin Wilson, 18??
* James Martineau, 1900
* Charles Taze Russell, 1916
* Neville Chamberlain, 1940
* William Branham, 1965
* Herbert W. Armstrong, 1986Quote Just admit you were wrong and join the church. I guess this isn't really a trinity thought, but I was looking at a magazine in an office today and the cover talked about more and more people having intolerance towards religion, saying that religion is the root cause of all evil. By and large, this is true. I personally believe the nations will come to this conclusion and for the sake of peace and security, they will ban all religion in an attempt for world peace. This will be the beginning of the end.
Martian
Quote Nick
At least on this point you and I agree. Trinitarians must rely on suggestion, revealings and abstract concepts because reason and scripture will not suffice to explain the trinity.
Says who?1. Jehovah the Father.
2. Christ is Jehovah.
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Jehovah) OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.3. Jehovah the Holy Spirit.
II Cor 3:17
Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom. (NWT) (Even the Arian's own bible cannot hide the truth)Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not
There are Three separate Holy Righteous Eternal Beings, each God and equal with one another. Though they hold different offices, they are nevertherless each God.
Three Divine beings within the Godhead with three different offices they choose to perform,
H2O can exist in three different realities, yet remain H20
•Ice
•Liquid
•or SteamEach Person of the Godhead can choose a different office, yet remain God.
A favorite passage of mine on this topic would have to be Isaiah 6:3 where it says,
Isaiah 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
” Did you catch that? That's one “holy” for each person of the Godhead!
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
All praise to God the Father… God the Son Jesus Christ… and God the Holy Spirit! ALL Three merit perfect praise. Holy, Holy, Holy! If there is only one Person, they would not have repeated the worshipful praise three times.
Holy! Holy! Holy!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2007,04:20) Quote (kenrch @ April 27 2007,01:20) Oh Yeah! The Harlot has done a wonderful job… of separating the body of Christ! Why are there sooooo many denominations? The reason there is so much confusion is the false doctrines of the whore.
The true church KEEP the Commandments of God NOT “CHANGE” the Commandments of God! Dan. 7:25
Rev 12:17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.
Tim2 you say we should NOT be led of the Spirit but of men. Your church has lied to you God is not three persons.
You have the Father, Son, and the NO Name Third Person Who your church says is the Holy Spirit. A person with no name, TIM! Come On! Does God expect you to know a person that has not a name? If you new the Holy Spirit you would know that the Holy Spirit is Jehovah. That is the Holy Spirit's name Jehovah! Not Blank!
You asked me to “spell out the resurrection day” I have done so and have given you the time that you asked for to reserch the Truth. But I have not heard from you. You are evading the Truth because the truth shows the lies of the Harlot your church and her false doctrines.
There are SO many Protestants that agree! “Many are they that find that wide path that leds to destruction”.
THE CROWD:
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You go along with “the crowd” that is going off a cliff instead of going against those who teach false doctrines. Which is harder? The Apostles were curcified for the truth what side was the “crowd “on? The Harlot slaughted saints because of the truth. Again what side was “the crowd”?
When your church crucified Jesus what side was the crowd on? That's right your church. The Roman Universal Church.
The LAST message:
Come out of her!
IHN&L
Ken
KYou say…
Quote
Oh Yeah! The Harlot has done a wonderful job… of separating the body of Christ! Why are there sooooo many denominations?
So are you saying the denominations are “The Body Of Christ” divided.I thought you said the are daughters of the whore and they are all going to hell unsless they repent follow your commands.
You just don't get it do you? In a way I'm glad, however I must try to have you understand.Come out of her MY people. What does MY PEOPLE mean WJ?
Come out of her, THE HARLOT. MY PEOPLE, those who seek God but are deceived.
The apostles asked Jesus what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the world.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?What was the very FIRST thing Jesus said?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.BE not deceived! Many will come “in my name” 'saying Jesus is the Christ but will misslead many'.
If you believe that many come and claim to BE Jesus Christ then what is your definition of many? I could count false christ on one hand.
**The first sign of the end is that MANY will come in the name of Jesus saying that Jesus IS the Christ and will Misslead MANY.**
Has that happened WJ?
IHN&L,
Ken
Quote (Tim2 @ April 27 2007,08:31) Martian said: Quote If Jesus is equal with God why does he say he can do nothing of his qwn accord? Why does He need the help or permission of God? Ok, can we please read John 5:19? My interlinear reads:
“Answered therefore Jesus and was saying to them, truly, truly, I say to you, is not able the Son to do from Himself anything except what He sees the Father doing. For what things That One is doing these things also the Son likewise is doing. 5:20 For the Father is fond of the Son and all things He shows to Him which He does, and greater than these will He show Him works, that you may marvel.”
For what things That One is doing these things likewise the Son is doing. This is complete equality. Jesus does everything that the Father does.
Again you take this out of context. The word “for” in “For what things That One is doing these things likewise the Son is doing”
This ties the verse to the previous context. In otherwords “for” could be translated “for this reason” what things That One is doing these things likewise the Son is doing.
The question then becomes for what reason?
You say it is because of equality. the scripture does not say that. In fact it says the opposite. Jesus can do nothing of humself. Of his own anititiave or on his own accord. The reason Jesus only does what the father shows him is because he is unable to do anything the father does not show him. This is not equality, but is submission.Quote (Tim2 @ April 27 2007,05:23) Denominations are a great evil in the church. The ecumenical church should all be one. But there are differences that various groups have felt were important enough to split off from the church. Obviously the biggest differences are over baptism and the Lord's Supper, which if the church doesn't agree on, it's hard to stay one church. Nevertheless, for all the denominations and differences over countless points of doctrine, the doctrine of the Trinity is unchallenged in every denomination. Who are those who challenge the Trinity? The biggest groups are the mormons and jw's. I know the mormons made no attempt at reconciliation with the church. They didn't try, like all the other denominations, to come to terms with the church and suggest areas for change. They simply claimed that their leader received a stupid book from an angel, and they just left and led thousands, now I guess millions, astray. I don't know how the jw's got started, but I doubt it was a group that broke off from the church.
And who are the rest of the anti-trinitarians? Thousands of stubborn individuals who think that only they know the truth and refuse to join in the brotherhood and fellowship that has existed for 2000 years in the church. One says of Jesus, “He is a god,” and another, “He was God,” and another, “He was God's seed.” Give it up already. Your personal impression from the Bible is wrong. You made a mistake. It's not the end of the world. Just admit you were wrong and join the church.
Tim
Denominations are essential if scripture is to be fulfilled. Without “other denominations” the Harlot would have no daughters
Tim says
The Son does everything the Father does. No one can do everything that God does except God.Response –
This is an assumption that is not based on facts. In fact, anyone can do what God does if God gives them the authority to do it. Jesus was given all authority in heaven and Earth. This means there was some moment in time when Christ did not have all authority. This is not equality. It also shows that one of greater authority has deligated the authority over heaven and Earth to one of lesser authority. This is not equality.
One must ask the question, Why does scripture say Christ was given all authority if he already had equal authority. If you say that the human was given authority, I will agree. However that would show that Christ not need be a God . In fact that would make him like us, which is exactly my point. Greater works then these shall “we”do? Heirs and joint heirs with christ? Any of this ring a bell?
Made like his brethren in EVERY WAY. Not in everyway except his nature.From a speculative position – Even though Christ was given all authority in heaven and Earth does not necessarily mean He has all the authority of God. What authority does God have? There may be realms far beyond what we percieve as heaven and Earth. Jesus was given all authority within the perameters of heaven and Earth.
Tim says –
“Son” means that He is begotten of the Father, not at His birth to Mary, but, as the Nicene Creed says, “before all worlds.” It means the Son is from the Father, out of the Father. What don't you understand?Response –
So your proof comes from creeds?
How unfortunate that you have fallen prey to the horrible Nicene creed.
Refutal of this council has been done so many times I will borrow some text from my friend.Constantine emperor of Rome had a problem. His kingdom was in turmoil because of strife between different religious factions. He had christians, gnostics, pagans, druids and many more. Constantine solved this problem by merging all these various factions together and forming The Holy Roman Catholic Church.
Following the example of his father and earlier 3rd-century emperors, Constantine throughout His life was a solar henotheist, believing that the Roman sun god, Sol, was the visible “manifestation” of an invisible “Highest God” {a plural God?} (summus deus), who was the principle behind the universe. Does this sound familiar? This god was thought to be the companion of the Roman emperor.
Constantine's adherence to this faith is evident from his claim of having had a vision of the sun god in 310 while in a grove of Apollo in Gaul.
In 325 AD – Constantine convenes the Council of Nicaea in order to develop a statement of faith that can unify the Catholic Church and therefore his empire. The Nicene Creed is written, declaring that “the Father and the Son are of the same substance” (homoousios). Let me point out that the substance of God is spirit therefor if Jesus is of the same substance then he was spirit and did not live in the flesh and therefor did not really die or be physically raised from the dead.
Emperor Constantine who was also the high priest of the pagan religion of the Unconquered Sun presided over this council.
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica:
“Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions and personally proposed the crucial formula expressing the relationship of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, `of one substance with the Father'.”The American Academic Encyclopedia states: “Although this was not Constantine's first attempt to reconcile factions in Christianity, it was the first time he had used the imperial office to IMPOSE a settlement.” It is known that many of His former beliefs followed Him into Christianity and that those beliefs strongly influenced the Nicaea council. It is also clear that part of his motives for forming the Holy Roman Catholic Church were to unify his kingdom. It is therefor clear that the council of Nicaea had been called in part to find a way to unify the Roman Empire under a statement of Faith. This council is known for it's Nicaean Creed detailing the doctrine of the Trinity which is the first time God is officially described, in any church document or biblical manuscript, as separated into three, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. It was there at Nicaea that the doctrine of the Trinity was rammed through in a Council that was overseen by the Emperor Constantine who, ironically enough, thought of himself as God-incarnate. (Constantine the Sun Worshiper only made an official conversion to “Christianity” on his death bed).”
Documents dated from that time state that Constantine stationed his soldiers outside the chamber doors and anyone not falling in line with his “substance” theory was banished or even killed.
From this point we see the beginnings of the attrocities placed on mankind by the Catholic church. The Trinity doctrine did not achieve acceptance by way of reason or scriptural interpretation or even appinion of Godly men. It was forced on the Church by a pagan sun worshiper and strictly enforced by a political/imperial church. the Nicene Creed is the result of this system. And this you quote as one of your proofs and hold up as truth?Further councils redefined what the Nicene Creed stated –
The Nestorianism group denied that Mary could be called the mother of God. They believed that Mary was only the mother of the human part of Jesus. The resulting belief dictated that there exists two Christ's, one divine and one human. In response to this the council of Effuses (431 U.S.) decreed That the two natures of Jesus are one and cannot be separated.Tim says –
You and Jesus are alike in the sense that everything you have, that makes you human, your nature, Jesus has. And everything that makes Jesus human, you have. But Jesus also has the nature of being God, which we don't have.Response –
So by what nature does Jesus do the miracles? If you say his human nature then man has power to do miracles without God. If you say devine then man cannot use Jesus as an example.At least you admit that Jesus is different then the rest of Humanity. You have added a nature to Christ that the remainder of humanity does not posses. The nature of an individual pertains to that persons character, will, soul and primary make up. Your statement is not rational and cannot be resolved by way of reason. you ask what is so hard to understand? If I make the statement “Black is white”, it is not rational. Two opposites cannot be equal.
One of the God’s primary characteristics is his inability to be tempted, yet christ can be. Secondly Christ can fail and God cannot. To say that Christ is failable and not failable, temptable and not temptable is the height of mysticism. It cannot be stated in a meaningfull way. As my friend says it is dysfunctional. If the nature of Christ is a mystery, then we have no way to duplicate his nature in ourselves.Tim says –
But Jesus also has the nature of being God, which we don't have.response –
Therefoe according to you, Christ has something we do not have and therefore he is different then us. By making that statement you have denied the possibility for us to becopme like him because we will never have this devine nature as you described it. The end resut of your doctrine is that Christ has two natures and we have one. This makes Christ non-human. He is outside the relms of normal humanity and therefore cannot fairly be used as an example for us. To quote my friend again, “To whatever degree you augment Christ’s humanity, to that same degree we cannot be like him. To whatever degree you attribute Christ’s accomplishments to a devine nature, to that same degreee we cannot duplicate those accomplishments.” Since all of the plan of God can be encompassed in humanity becoming like Christ, you
have scrapped all of Christianity and the plan of God. This two nature doctrine makes the plan of God impossible and therefore cannot be true.Tim says that Jesus and God are of the same substance. Though the identical substance doctrine has it’s roots in pagan men, the subject of the substance of God is biblical.
The following verse talks of Jesus being the exact representation of His (Gods) nature. The word “nature” in this passage means substance. Jesus is the exact representation of God’s substance. Not He is of the same substance but represents the substance of God. A representative does not necessarily equal that which he represents. If I represent the President of the United States, I may carry his authority and even speak for him, but I am not him.
Hebrews 1:3
And He (Jesus) is the radiance of His (God’s) glory and the exact representation of His (God’s) nature, and upholds all things by the word of His (God’s) power.
II Peter 1:4
4For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.In this verse we again see God’s plan described. Nature in this verse is from the Greek word, PHUO which means to bring forth or produce. …. so that by them you may become partakers of the divine produce or production,
Being partakers of the devine nature in essence means to be that which God intended to produce. Jesus was that produce. He is the first fruits and the first to accomplish what God intended for all men. He is th second Adam. Adam failed but Jesus did not. Adam ws fully human with a single human nature. To compare Jesus with Adam (as scripture does) Jesus must also have a single human nature.
Quote (kenrch @ April 28 2007,01:49) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 27 2007,04:20) Quote (kenrch @ April 27 2007,01:20) Oh Yeah! The Harlot has done a wonderful job… of separating the body of Christ! Why are there sooooo many denominations? The reason there is so much confusion is the false doctrines of the whore.
The true church KEEP the Commandments of God NOT “CHANGE” the Commandments of God! Dan. 7:25
Rev 12:17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.
Tim2 you say we should NOT be led of the Spirit but of men. Your church has lied to you God is not three persons.
You have the Father, Son, and the NO Name Third Person Who your church says is the Holy Spirit. A person with no name, TIM! Come On! Does God expect you to know a person that has not a name? If you new the Holy Spirit you would know that the Holy Spirit is Jehovah. That is the Holy Spirit's name Jehovah! Not Blank!
You asked me to “spell out the resurrection day” I have done so and have given you the time that you asked for to reserch the Truth. But I have not heard from you. You are evading the Truth because the truth shows the lies of the Harlot your church and her false doctrines.
There are SO many Protestants that agree! “Many are they that find that wide path that leds to destruction”.
THE CROWD:
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You go along with “the crowd” that is going off a cliff instead of going against those who teach false doctrines. Which is harder? The Apostles were curcified for the truth what side was the “crowd “on? The Harlot slaughted saints because of the truth. Again what side was “the crowd”?
When your church crucified Jesus what side was the crowd on? That's right your church. The Roman Universal Church.
The LAST message:
Come out of her!
IHN&L
Ken
KYou say…
Quote
Oh Yeah! The Harlot has done a wonderful job… of separating the body of Christ! Why are there sooooo many denominations?
So are you saying the denominations are “The Body Of Christ” divided.I thought you said the are daughters of the whore and they are all going to hell unsless they repent follow your commands.
You just don't get it do you? In a way I'm glad, however I must try to have you understand.Come out of her MY people. What does MY PEOPLE mean WJ?
Come out of her, THE HARLOT. MY PEOPLE, those who seek God but are deceived.
The apostles asked Jesus what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the world.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?What was the very FIRST thing Jesus said?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.BE not deceived! Many will come “in my name” 'saying Jesus is the Christ but will misslead many'.
If you believe that many come and claim to BE Jesus Christ then what is your definition of many? I could count false christ on one hand.
**The first sign of the end is that MANY will come in the name of Jesus saying that Jesus IS the Christ and will Misslead MANY.**
Has that happened WJ?
IHN&L,
Ken
KJn 10:
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and *the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out*
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and *the sheep follow him: for they know his voice*
5 and a stranger will they not follow but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 *My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me*
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, *neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand*
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and *no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand*
30 I and my Father are one.I don’t think you share the same sentiment about the Lords people as Jesus.
You can rant and rave all you like about people coming out of her, and it will not change the truth of God that he knows his own and they know him and follow him.
He left the 99 to save the one. That means that none will be lost.
You say…
Quote
You just don't get it do you? *In a way I'm glad*, however I must try to have you understand.
This statement is proof that you are not of the same Spirit as Jesus. In a way you are glad what?
That I don’t know the truth, or I am going to hell?All I hear you do on this forum is preach condemnation to everyone that doesn’t agre
e with your truth, as if you are a prophet or something.*Come out of her.*
What, come out from what we believe to follow your brand of truth and your spirit of condemnation and judgment to every believer who disagrees with you.?
I don’t think so. Who made you a prophet over us?
Rom 14:13
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.Jesus knows his own and they follow him and they hear his voice.
You would do well not to continue spewing your poison out against them lest you find your self putting your finger in the apple of God’s eye.
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