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Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 12 2007,05:20) t8, in the spirit of fairness and goodwill I'l let you go first. Feel free to unload on me the 12 best proof texts that you feel blow trinitarianism out of the water. If you could give me a week to finish my responses and assemble my best 12, that would be fair, I think. Going to bed now. Look forward to seeing what you come up with….
Blessings
Is 1:18
So it is no longer the spirit of fairness.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2007,09:57) Hi Is 1.18,
So attack and no need for defence?
This is a fair debate?
No. You misunderstand. I will be defending the trinitarian position for the verses t8 submits to me and challenging his henotheistic theology on the verses I submit.It's really not that difficult to understand…..
He avoids posting scriptures that teach the Trinity because there are none.
But do as you say Is 1:18.
Let the the truth be the winner.
Quote challenging his henotheistic theology on the verses I submit. T8, do you have a henotheistic theology?
on page 618, I wrote the following:
“Henotheism is similar but less exclusive than monolatry because a monolator worships only one god, while the henotheist may worship any within the pantheon, depending on circumstances.”–Wickipedia link from Is 1:18
Monolatry is “the worship of a single god [Jehovah] but without claiming that he is the only god [in the Bible, there are others where that term does rightfully fit].”–wordnet.princeton.edu
And while Jehovah may not be “the only god” he is the only true God in comparison to all others. The Israelite judges were gods (mighty ones) in reference to the others. Angels are gods in reference to humans. Satan is a god (mighty one) over this world. But none of these are worshiped.
Compared to everyone else, Jehovah is the only one who doesn't have a god (mighty one). We are often told that Jesus has a God. Never that Jehovah has one.
So, that word “henotheism” definitely doesn't apply to my beliefs. Of course, most people don't use words like this and if one said “monotheism” that would
monotheism: The belief that there is only one God
God: Object of worship…
Hence, monotheism fits pretty well too. I believe that there is only one object of worship, one we should worship. If you wanted to get extremely technical, “Monolatry” may be a better word.
Well if I repeat Paul's and Yeshua's words and he calls me henotheistic, monolectric, a pot smoking rasta, or whatever, then he is saying that about Yeshua and Paul.
Quote He avoids posting scriptures that teach the Trinity because there are none.
Umm. No, obviously he will post scriptures that he believes supports his beliefs. But he is extremely precise in his words. I imagine he already has his post ready, and has for some time.Quote Umm. No, obviously he will post scriptures that he believes supports his beliefs. But he is extremely precise in his words. I imagine he already has his post ready, and has for some time.
Yes probably. A cut from here and a paste from there and a sprinkling of big fancy words and compiled using a spell checker should blow me out of the water.Actually I don't mind being blown up with truth. But it has to be truth (scriptural). I am not interested in different philosophies or technical terms that are designed to take away the simplicity in Christ and the truth.
I want to be like a child in that respect.
Quote (david @ Mar. 19 2007,05:10) No, obviously he will post scriptures that he believes supports his beliefs.
I hope so. But it may just turn out to be a let's discredit T8 day by making me out to be a inclusive monotheist and a monarchial polytheist.Oh well if he slaps me on the left cheek he can have the right also.
I guess all I can do in this scenario is say “ouch”.
Question:
If one believes and is deceived that God is a Trinity. Is it that sin?
If one believes and is deceived that God is not a Trinity. Is that sin?
I don't believe God is a Trinity. But how does that stack up to salvation?
Sin is trangression of the law.
1Jo 3:4 Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
God is a Spirit and everyone must worship Him in Spirit and truth. BUt what if the truth you have is Not Truth. You believe it is true but it is not, to YOU it is truth.
If you worship in Spirit then you will know truth. The Spirit guides us to all truth.Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.
If you worship in Spirit then you will have truth, “IF” you listen to to what the Spirit says. Mat. 11:15, 13:9; Mar 11:9, 4:23, 7:16; luk 8:8, 14:35. Rev. 2:7,11,17,29; 3:6,13,22.
IHL,
Ken
Quote (kenrch @ Mar. 18 2007,15:51) If one believes and is deceived that God is not a Trinity. Is that sin? Sin is trangression of the law.
Hi Ken,If a person believes that God is not a trinity,is he breaking the commandment, “thou shall have no other God's before me”
and thus sinning, If that person worships Jesus?Tim
Hi,
Heb 3
13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; “
In the beginning of the walk with Christ there was no trinity theory.
Go back and find true roots.Quote (kenrch @ Mar. 19 2007,10:51) Question: If one believes and is deceived that God is a Trinity. Is it that sin?
If one believes and is deceived that God is not a Trinity. Is that sin?
I don't believe God is a Trinity. But how does that stack up to salvation?
Sin is trangression of the law.
1Jo 3:4 Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
God is a Spirit and everyone must worship Him in Spirit and truth. BUt what if the truth you have is Not Truth. You believe it is true but it is not, to YOU it is truth.
If you worship in Spirit then you will know truth. The Spirit guides us to all truth.Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.
If you worship in Spirit then you will have truth, “IF” you listen to to what the Spirit says. Mat. 11:15, 13:9; Mar 11:9, 4:23, 7:16; luk 8:8, 14:35. Rev. 2:7,11,17,29; 3:6,13,22.
IHL,
Ken
It may not be a salvation issue but when Christians falsely believe that belief in the Trinity is the true faith (which is actually Catholicism) they feel at liberty to condemn all who do not believe the Trinity doctrine.For an example of how prevalent this is, look at Is 1:18's signature at the bottom of his posts. It is not hard to see what he is inferring given his history here.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 19 2007,01:04) Quote (kenrch @ Mar. 19 2007,10:51) Question: If one believes and is deceived that God is a Trinity. Is it that sin?
If one believes and is deceived that God is not a Trinity. Is that sin?
I don't believe God is a Trinity. But how does that stack up to salvation?
Sin is trangression of the law.
1Jo 3:4 Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
God is a Spirit and everyone must worship Him in Spirit and truth. BUt what if the truth you have is Not Truth. You believe it is true but it is not, to YOU it is truth.
If you worship in Spirit then you will know truth. The Spirit guides us to all truth.Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.
If you worship in Spirit then you will have truth, “IF” you listen to to what the Spirit says. Mat. 11:15, 13:9; Mar 11:9, 4:23, 7:16; luk 8:8, 14:35. Rev. 2:7,11,17,29; 3:6,13,22.
IHL,
Ken
It may not be a salvation issue but when Christians falsely believe that belief in the Trinity is the true faith (which is actually Catholicism) they feel at liberty to condemn all who do not believe the Trinity doctrine.For an example of how prevalent this is, look at Is 1:18's signature at the bottom of his posts. It is not hard to see what he is inferring given his history here.
t8Are you serious! LOL.
There is more condemnation toward Trinitarians here than towards those who arnt. For one we are out numbered on this site by probably 5 to 1.
Constantly accusations are made to even get saved!
And you condemn all the time. You told me once that I was a servant of satan!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2007,09:55) Hi,
There should be rules against using words that do not appear in scripture[or are of more than 15 letters!]. They are the tools of the theologians and not the bereans who compare verse with verse.
NHThats funny!
Especially when you use the word “theologians” in the same sentence!
I think he's saying it's funny that you would include a word that doesn't appear in the Bible (theologians) in your plea to ban words that don't appear in the Bible. Obviously you just meant a ban on unbiblical terms when describing true doctrine, but his comment is humorous nonetheless.
This Arian doctrine promoted has really a lot in common with the Catholic trinity. The Catholic trinity is completely different to the trinity beliefs of the rest of Christianity.
The Catholic church teaches that in the beginning there was only god the father. They teach that the father “knew” himself” (that is copulated with himself) and the son came into existence. They teach that then out of the father and son came the holy ghost. (I don't like writing about this but unfortunately it is true and we need to know).
Looking at this Catholic model of “trinity” , there really is only god the father, because the others came into existence out of him.
Sounds familiar?
So the Arians and the Catholics are really spiritual relatives, because both their belief systems come from the “originally there was only god the father” belief. They both blaspheme the Bible Godhead by denying its very existence.
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
The Catholic church is the mother of abominations. Arianism is an abomination and is related to Catholic doctrine. It is blasphemy.
The Bible truth is that there is a Godhead with three divine eternal Persons, each fully God in His own right.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
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