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Quote (david @ Mar. 11 2007,06:58) I wonder what I shall do with this new found power.
It's dangerous David, you'll have to be punctilious….Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 12 2007,01:39) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2007,06:30) Haven't you guys got better things to do with all the time you spend here accusing us and looking for weaknesses in our armour.
t8, can you show me where I have accused you of something that was unjustified?To my mind I ask you a lot of questions (that you summarily side step), but I don't recall railing accusations at you personally.
Your first accusation against me if I am remembering clearly, was that I was deceitful and a liar. You then also hold to the view that Nick and myself are preaching false doctrine.
But in truth Is 1:18, I don't mind your questions at all, they are useful in that it makes me look deeper into the subject and helps me to see how sea worthy the boat is when you come against us. But I am perplexed somewhat as to how you can justify to yourself your ignorance or explaining away of hundreds of scriptures that cannot be reconciled with the Trinity doctrine.
https://heavennet.net/writings/trinity-11.htmI mean from what I can see the above scriptures made your boat sink a long time ago.
So I mean it when I say that your opposition is actually useful in that people can come here and get info on both sides of the Trinity doctrine argument and they can exercise their will and make a clearer choice as a result. It also does sharpen myself as it makes me look deeper into things.
I remember a preacher preaching in the Christchurch Square and how was was heckled by some pretty colourful characters. But the fact was the hecklers were actually drawing the crowd and the preacher was giving them the gospel. So I am not actually opposed to hecklers per se.
But it is still weird to me that you could be so dedicated to opposing the mission here regarding testing all things to see if they are written. I don't see you as a person who tests all things, but a person who has his mind made up and not even scripture will change it. So when I say that you oppose me I am only speaking the truth. I am not saying that you should stop immediately, I actually respect your free will to continue.
So as useful as it is that you are putting in some time here to oppose us, it is still weird to me that you would be so dedicated to oppose a good thing.
Maybe you could interpret that as a concern for you.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2007,07:34) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 12 2007,01:39) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2007,06:30) Haven't you guys got better things to do with all the time you spend here accusing us and looking for weaknesses in our armour.
t8, can you show me where I have accused you of something that was unjustified?To my mind I ask you a lot of questions (that you summarily side step), but I don't recall railing accusations at you personally.
Your first accusation against me if I am remembering clearly, was that I was deceitful and a liar. You then also hold to the view that Nick and myself are preaching false doctrine.
Some quotes would be good t8. I just don't trust your self-proclaimed “famously bad” memory.Quote But in truth Is 1:18, I don't mind your questions at all, they are useful in that it makes me look deeper into the subject and helps me to see how sea worthy the boat is when you come against us.
Why won't you answer them?Quote But I am perplexed somewhat as to how you can justify to yourself your ignorance or explaining away of hundreds of scriptures that cannot be reconciled with the Trinity doctrine.
https://heavennet.net/writings/trinity-11.htmI mean from what I can see the above scriptures made your boat sink a long time ago.
Okay lets make a deal. You cite what you believe are the three foremost proof texts that refute the trinity. I'll address them and attempt to explain them for a trinitarian viewpoint. But then I will cite my top three proof texts which I think challenge the henotheistic model (yes t8, whether you care to acknowledge it or not, you are a henotheist), and it's your turn.It'll be fun. Keen?
Quote So I mean it when I say that your opposition is actually useful in that people can come here and get info on both sides of the Trinity doctrine argument and they can exercise their will and make a clearer choice as a result. It also does sharpen myself as it makes me look deeper into things.
I'm glad you approve of my being here.
Quote I remember a preacher preaching in the Christchurch Square and how was was heckled by some pretty colourful characters. But the fact was the hecklers were actually drawing the crowd and the preacher was giving them the gospel. So I am not actually opposed to hecklers per se.
If you're comparing me to someone who specialises in personal attacks then I think you need to re-think that. If you do see it this way then please front up with some quotes. I'm blunt but I don't make a habit of character assasination.Quote But it is still weird to me that you could be so dedicated to opposing the mission here regarding testing all things to see if they are written. I don't see you as a person who tests all things, but a person who has his mind made up and not even scripture will change it.
I have to be honest and say that at this point I believe that the henotheistic position is the least scriptural. Do you seriously expect me to believe:-That the pre-incarnate Yeshua was some biblically-undefined being of ontology intermediate to God and angels.
That He existed in the beginning, i.e. before the advent of time itself – but wasn't God.
That He was involved in creating “all things” including “heaven and Earth” (Col 1:16), even though scripture affirms that YHWH did it “alone” (Isa 44:24) – but wasn't God.
That there was an eternal generation of the Son (although no scripture attests to a begettal before the incarnation). And that God can beget offspring that is not God, but something less than God.
That all saved believers will get an ontological upgrade and actually become divine.
That there are not one uncreated God, but many of them and YHWH is the highest of them.
Bizarre.
You need to take stock of some of the truely strange elements of your own theology before you cast aspersions at others.
Quote So when I say that you oppose me I am only speaking the truth.
If it was truth you would have no trouble defending it. But you run and hide when the searching questions come. You don't think people notice this? I do.Quote I am not saying that you should stop immediately, I actually respect your free will to continue.
Why would I stop?Quote So as useful as it is that you are putting in some time here to oppose us, it is still weird to me that you would be so dedicated to oppose a good thing. Maybe you could interpret that as a concern for you.
Is polytheism a good thing?Not according to YHWH. Not according to Paul. He would oppose you too.
Anyone who preaches a false Yeshua should be opposed, and strongly.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 12 2007,03:43) Some quotes would be good t8. I just don't trust your self-proclaimed “famously bad” memory.
Can't you remember calling me a liar?Or is your memory bad too?
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 12 2007,03:43) Okay lets make a deal. You cite what you believe are the three foremost proof texts that refute the trinity. I'll address them and attempt to explain them for a trinitarian viewpoint. But then I will cite my top three proof texts which I think challenge the henotheistic model (yes t8, whether you care to acknowledge it or not, you are a henotheist), and it's your turn.
Sure why not.That sounds easier than answering all of your questions.
Can we make it 12 scriptures?
I like the number 12.
But one scripture each at a time.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 12 2007,04:05) t8, where is the quote? You shouldn't accuse people of anything without some proof.
Are you denying it?Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2007,09:07) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 12 2007,04:05) t8, where is the quote? You shouldn't accuse people of anything without some proof.
Are you denying it?
I don't remember it.Do you have a quote or not?
Show some class, either produce a quote or apologise for misreprenting me on a hunch.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2007,09:06) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 12 2007,03:43) Okay lets make a deal. You cite what you believe are the three foremost proof texts that refute the trinity. I'll address them and attempt to explain them for a trinitarian viewpoint. But then I will cite my top three proof texts which I think challenge the henotheistic model (yes t8, whether you care to acknowledge it or not, you are a henotheist), and it's your turn.
Sure why not.That sounds easier than answering all of your questions.
Can we make it 12 scriptures?
I like the number 12.
But one scripture each at a time.
Sure, 12 is fine. But t8 reassure me now that you are going to be just as enthusiastic when it's your turn to do some answering…..I'm skeptical.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2007,09:12) You don't remember it and there you were making fun at my bad memory.
Is that tantamount to calling you a liar?He he….
Sure I will be enthusiastic. My problem is not enthusiasm, it is time.
I work full-time, have a home business, and a young child. So I don't like to waste what little precious time I have on fruitless arguments and ontology.Maybe we could start a new discussion so that our dialogue doesn't get left behind in the Trinity discussion. That is one of the problems I have. When I visit, I am not able to read all the posts that were made since my last visit. But if we keep this to it's own discussion, then nothing gets left behind.
If you like the idea of a new discussion dedicated to 12 scriptures each, then we could call it “12 scriptures” or something like that.
t8, in the spirit of fairness and goodwill I'l let you go first. Feel free to unload on me the 12 best proof texts that you feel blow trinitarianism out of the water. If you could give me a week to finish my responses and assemble my best 12, that would be fair, I think.
Going to bed now. Look forward to seeing what you come up with….
Blessings
Is 1:18Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 12 2007,04:13) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2007,09:12) You don't remember it and there you were making fun at my bad memory.
Is that tantamount to calling you a liar?He he….
I have a bad memory, but somethings I can remember as if they were yesterday. No make that one hour ago. I can't always remember what I did yesterday.Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 12 2007,04:20) t8, in the spirit of fairness and goodwill I'l let you go first. Feel free to unload on me the 12 best proof texts that you feel blow trinitarianism out of the water. If you could give me a week to finish my responses and assemble my best 12, that would be fair, I think. Going to bed now. Look forward to seeing what you come up with….
Blessings
Is 1:18
Should I post 12 scriptures, or I give you one and you reply to it, then you give me one and I reply? We finish when we get to 12 scriptures each.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2007,09:19) Sure I will be enthusiastic. My problem is not enthusiasm, it is time.
I work full-time, have a home business, and a young child. So I don't like to waste what little precious time I have on fruitless arguments and ontology.
well I a busy job too (especially this time of year) have three boys under 6 so I have no advantage there….I've done this before on other MBs, you find the time. It won't be fruitless if you take it seriously and don't shirk the questions.Quote Maybe we could start a new discussion so that our dialogue doesn't get left behind in the Trinity discussion. That is one of the problems I have. When I visit, I am not able to read all the posts that were made since my last visit. But if we keep this to it's own discussion, then nothing gets left behind. If you like the idea of a new discussion dedicated to 12 scriptures each, then we could call it “12 scriptures” or something like that.
Good Idea.Actually 12 scriptures would be best. Otherwise it could drag on forever.
What about I post 12, then you post 12 straight after. Then we debate each others first scripture and move onto the second and so on.
That way your 12 aren't lost in the middle of the discussion.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 11 2007,09:22) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 12 2007,04:20) t8, in the spirit of fairness and goodwill I'l let you go first. Feel free to unload on me the 12 best proof texts that you feel blow trinitarianism out of the water. If you could give me a week to finish my responses and assemble my best 12, that would be fair, I think. Going to bed now. Look forward to seeing what you come up with….
Blessings
Is 1:18
Should I post 12 scriptures, or I give you one and you reply to it, then you give me one and I reply? We finish when we get to 12 scriptures each.
Just post you 12 best proof texts with your interpretation of them (obviously) and show how they are utterly incompatible with the trinity model (please be accurate here, no straw man attacks). I'll answer your objections systematically and give my interpretation (if it differs from yours) and try to show how the verses are not incompatible….You'll get the idea.
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