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Paul says “as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”.
Other lords and gods are also mention in scripture.
The LORD said to my lord.
Angels are called gods.But Paul tells us that for us, there is one God the Father.
But you say that there is one God the Father, Son, Spirit.I have been straight with you.
Someone who believes in the trinity:
I wonder what would possess the religious leaders who lived in jesus time and wanted him dead to not accuse him of claiming to be God Almighty?
Why would they keep this fact back?
Was it their ace in the hole that they were going to drag out at the end?
No, that can't be, because they seemed pretty desparate, creating false witnesses, breaking laws, doing this under the cover of darkness.
hmmm. I remember when I got pulled over that time for speeding and when the officer found the dead body in my trunk, suddenly he didn't care as much about me speeding. hmmm. In fact, now that I think about it, I didn't get a speeding ticket at all, only 10 years in jail.
hmmmm.
Why wouldn't the pharisees have looked at the much bigger claim, the body in the trunk so to speak? Why would they gloss over that?It just doesn't make sense. I'm starting to question this whole trinity doctrine.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 08 2007,09:41) Paul says “as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”. Other lords and gods are also mention in scripture.
The LORD said to my lord.
Angels are called gods.But Paul tells us that for us, there is one God the Father.
But you say that there is one God the Father, Son, Spirit.I have been straight with you.
t8. you are equivocating.Tell me straight – are the “lords and gods” that Paul writes about in 1 Cor 8:5 uncreated or created?
There are two options here. Which one do you hold to?
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 08 2007,09:01) Tell me straight t8 – are the “lords and gods” that Paul writes about in 1 Cor 8:5 uncreated or created?
Hi Is 1.18,
Scripture calls them all gods wheher or not they are created.
Only you discriminate artificially so as to state that all uncreated gods are GOD, and in fact GOD HIMSELF, but all created gods are not GOD.
By whose authority do you make such divisions if not scripture?Quote (david @ Mar. 08 2007,10:47) I'm starting to question this whole trinity doctrine.
Now that's funny, I don't care who you are.Tim
Hi Is 1.18,
Is your god only moderately almighty since he was powerless for a time, or at least a third aspect of him was, and died?
Our God is Almighty and cannot die.1Tim 6
” 13I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate,14that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15which He will bring about at the proper time–He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
Follow Jesus and worship Him.
HI
Quote Quote (david @ Mar. 08 2007,10:47)
I'm starting to question this whole trinity doctrine.Now that's funny, I don't care who you are.
Tim
I agree.
Hugs
PhoenixHi P,
I am sure God is far from amused that puny men, under the influence of the god of this world, dare to teach about Him from outside of His revelation about Himself. He is so patient but will not be forever.hi david,
i can't figure this out… “Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, 'Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?' The Jews answered Him, saying, 'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.” John 10:31-33… why did the Jews consider it blasphemy for Jesus to say, “I am the Son of God”?
then Jesus made a reference to Psalm 82 – why did He do that? was He establishing that God has children?
i used to think the religious leaders hated Jesus b/c He claimed to be God, which was blasphemy. but now as i am reading the scriptures, i haven't read where Jesus actually said those words, (though some believed He implied being God.) so, i don't understand why saying He is the Son of God is blasphemy?
i now understand that the religious leaders hated Jesus and wanted Him dead – b/c after that incident they said, “'If we let Him alone like this, everyone will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and nation.' And one of them, Caiaphas, being high priest that year, said to them, 'You know nothing at all, nor do you consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and not that the whole nation should perish.' Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the childeren of God who were scattered abroad. Then, from that day on, they plotted to put Him to death.” John 11:48-52
so, it would accomplish 2 things to continue hating Him and seek His death: 1) the Jews wouldn't believe in Jesus and the Romans would leave their nation alone, and 2) it was expedient for the nation for one man to die for the nation.
any help or insight would be appreciated. thanks.
Hi tt,
Good question. What did they have to work with about God's son?
Ps 2, Prov 30, Ps 8, Ps 102, Ps 110, Ps 45, 2Sam 7.7f?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 08 2007,22:25) Hi P,
I am sure God is far from amused that puny men, under the influence of the god of this world, dare to teach about Him from outside of His revelation about Himself. He is so patient but will not be forever.
Hi Nick,You missed the humor.
David, a Jehovah Witness said “I am starting to question this whole trinity doctrine.”
Don't you see the irony in that?Lighten up some. God has a sense of humor.
Tim
For our exhortation [was] not of deceit, minding how we are co inheritors with Christ in receiving Gods spirit and not for our own exhortation
Mindful that some may feel that the Name of Jesus is pulled low if he can not be God himself, but also God is brought low if Christ is not exalted as the Son of God, and all men are in Christ and should only put on garments as elect of God according to the eternal gospal preachedEdit add; Mindful that anything you say against Jesus shall be forgiven, but that which you say against the holyspirit shall not forgiven;
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
1Th 2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
1Th 2:3 For our exhortation [was] not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:
1Th 2:4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 08 2007,19:04) Hi Is 1.18,
Scripture calls them all gods wheher or not they are created.
Only you discriminate artificially so as to state that all uncreated gods are GOD, and in fact GOD HIMSELF, but all created gods are not GOD.
By whose authority do you make such divisions if not scripture?
NH,
Yes I definately descriminate between those that are, for whatever reason, called “god” in scripture but are “by nature no gods”, and that which is the true “God”. To my mind the former is part of creation (created) and the later is the Creator (uncreated). And I don't think I need anyone's permission to make this determination, it's just simple common sense.Just tell me plainly, in your opinion are there any beings ascribed the title “God” in the Bible, besides Yeshua and His Father, that are uncreated?
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 09 2007,13:16) t8. you are equivocating. Tell me straight – are the “lords and gods” that Paul writes about in 1 Cor 8:5 uncreated or created?
There are two options here. Which one do you hold to?
Quote t8. you are equivocating.
No. I am quoting Paul, so he must be the equivocator.Quote Tell me straight – are the “lords and gods” that Paul writes about in 1 Cor 8:5 uncreated or created?
Paul didn't say.Quote There are two options here. Which one do you hold to?
My guess is both, after all God is a god (The Most High God) and he is/was uncreated and angels who are referred to as gods were created. So both is my guess.Does this help?
Hi Is 1.18,
God is.
His unique monogenes son was begotten in the beginning and through him came all of creation.
He was loved by God and God sent his firstborn son into the world in the likeness of sinful flesh.
He has spoken for God, acted for God, lived and died for God.Heb 1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Rom 8
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:1Jn 4
9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2007,02:52) My guess is both, after all God is a god (The Most High God) and he is/was uncreated and angels who are referred to as gods were created. So both is my guess. Does this help?
Okay, just so I understand you correctly….you hold that there is only one uncreated God.Is-this-true?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 09 2007,03:10) Hi Is 1.18,
God is.
His unique monogenes son was begotten in the beginning and through him came all of creation.
He was loved by God and God sent his firstborn son into the world in the likeness of sinful flesh.
He has spoken for God, acted for God, lived and died for God.Heb 1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Rom 8
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:1Jn 4
9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Why do you never give me a direct answer to my questions?Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2007,02:52) No. I am quoting Paul, so he must be the equivocator.
Paul wasn't being equivocal, in 1 Cor 8:4-6 he was contrasting Yeshua and the Father with the “lords and gods” that the pagans believed in. That is why he designated them “so-called” gods. You see Corinth was saturated in paganism in those days t8, it was quite an issue for the church there. In Chapter 10 he goes on to say that the gentiles were in fact sacrificing to demons! (read 1 Cor 8:4 followed by 10:20)
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