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Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 17 2007,12:39) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 17 2007,03:37) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Feb. 17 2007,03:17) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2007,22:54) Hi Music42: Enjoyed reading this post, and it should help those who teach the trinity and oneness doctrines to see plainly that their doctrines are in error so that they can come to the knowledge of the truth and prosper.
God Bless
Hi SDN,
Music4two holds that Yeshua did not pre-exist His incarnation, not as a sentient personage anyway. Do you agree?
Hi Isaiah 1:18:I do agree based on the following scripture: “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb withouth blemish and without spot: WHO VERILY WAS FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, BUT WAS MANIFEST IN THESE LAST TIMES FOR YOU”. (1 Peter 1:18-20)
God Bless
Hi,I too struggle with the concept of Jesus pre existing with God.
John 1:1 does not clearly tell me that at all. There are too many other ways to interpret that verse.However 1 Peter 1:18-19 could mean that even though Jesus pre existed with God before the foundations of the world, that it was still God's plan that he be manefested on earth in these last times. So that verse does not preclude a chance for the pre existence of Jesus, at least to me it doesn't.
John 17:5 is the only scripture in my mind that seems to confirm that Jesus was with God before the world began.
Jhn 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. “Tim
Hi Tim & M42:I believe that verse 17:24 will explain that Jesus was not saying that he existed before the world began but that His exalted position at the right hand of God was predestined from the beginning.
Jesus states in verse 24: “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world”.
I hope this helps and God Bless
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2007,21:45) Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 17 2007,12:39) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 17 2007,03:37) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Feb. 17 2007,03:17) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 16 2007,22:54) Hi Music42: Enjoyed reading this post, and it should help those who teach the trinity and oneness doctrines to see plainly that their doctrines are in error so that they can come to the knowledge of the truth and prosper.
God Bless
Hi SDN,
Music4two holds that Yeshua did not pre-exist His incarnation, not as a sentient personage anyway. Do you agree?
Hi Isaiah 1:18:I do agree based on the following scripture: “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb withouth blemish and without spot: WHO VERILY WAS FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, BUT WAS MANIFEST IN THESE LAST TIMES FOR YOU”. (1 Peter 1:18-20)
God Bless
Hi,I too struggle with the concept of Jesus pre existing with God.
John 1:1 does not clearly tell me that at all. There are too many other ways to interpret that verse.However 1 Peter 1:18-19 could mean that even though Jesus pre existed with God before the foundations of the world, that it was still God's plan that he be manefested on earth in these last times. So that verse does not preclude a chance for the pre existence of Jesus, at least to me it doesn't.
John 17:5 is the only scripture in my mind that seems to confirm that Jesus was with God before the world began.
Jhn 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. “Tim
Hi Tim & M42:I believe that verse 17:24 will explain that Jesus was not saying that he existed before the world began but that His exalted position at the right hand of God was predestined from the beginning.
Jesus states in verse 24: “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world”.
I hope this helps and God Bless
I think you are right —-Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2007,21:47) Hi m42,
Was Christ, the beloved Son, loved,
or loved in anticipation of his existence?
You just don't get it do you? I believe the basic cincepts you have of man and his relationship with God or His worth to God is wrong. This colors all your beliefs in such a way that I find it a waste of time to discuss these matters with you. It is not entertaining.Hi TimothyVI.
Welcome to these forums.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 18 2007,07:39) Hi, I too struggle with the concept of Jesus pre existing with God.
John 1:1 does not clearly tell me that at all. There are too many other ways to interpret that verse.
There are other (pre-existant) verses you may consider.Try this page:
https://heavennet.net/answers/answer31.htmQuote (t8 @ Feb. 18 2007,23:22) Hi TimothyVI. Welcome to these forums.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 18 2007,07:39) Hi, I too struggle with the concept of Jesus pre existing with God.
John 1:1 does not clearly tell me that at all. There are too many other ways to interpret that verse.
There are other (pre-existant) verses you may consider.Try this page:
https://heavennet.net/answers/answer31.htm
Your right. there are other preexistant scriptures, such as —
Psalms 139 David is exclaiming how Adonai knows everything about him and knew him before His birth. In verse 16 he writes…. Your eyes could see me as an embryo, but in your book all my days were already written; my days had been shaped before any of them existed….. So David was Pre-existent. In Jeremiah 1/4 and 5 Here is the word of Adonai that came to me (5) Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I separated you for myself……. So Jereimiah is preexistant
God also speaks of Cyrus, king of the Medo-Persian Empire, more than 150 years before the events described occurred. He is even referred to as God's anointed in the work that he was to accomplish on behalf of the captive Jews.(Is. 44/28- 45/1) Who says of Cyrus…… He is My shepherd, and he shall perform all My pleasure, even saying to Jerusalem, you shall be built, and to the temple, your foundation shall be laid. Thus says the Lord to His ANOINTED, TO CYRUS, WHOSE RIGHT HAND I HAVE HELD — to subdue nations before him and loose the armor of kings. To open before him the double doors, so that the gates will not be shut….. therefore Cyrus is preexistant.Must have ben pretty crowded in heaven.
Hi m42,
God loved His Son that He sent into the world.
The Son was real.
Luke 20:13
“The owner of the vineyard said, 'What shall I do? I will send my beloved son; perhaps they will respect him.'Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2007,00:49) Hi m42,
God loved His Son that He sent into the world.
The Son was real.
Luke 20:13
“The owner of the vineyard said, 'What shall I do? I will send my beloved son; perhaps they will respect him.'
Is this supposed to be some proof of preexistance?Hi m42,
God loved His Son.
“Pre existance” is an oxymoron.
One either exists or not.
Christ was before Abraham with God who is the Father..Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2007,01:04) Hi m42,
God loved His Son.
“Pre existance” is an oxymoron.
One either exists or not.
Christ was before Abraham with God who is the Father..
You do not consider the context of John 8. the teachers justified themselves by their heritage in Abraham. they even accused Jesus of having a demon and being a “Samaritan”. By doing so the teachers were telling Jesus he could not be of their father Abraham or he would be in agreement with them.
To understand Jesus' reply one thing must be understood. Jesus operated in prophecy. When Peter ask Christ to show him the Father, Jesus replied “Have I been so loing with you and you do not know me?” Jesus was not saying he was literally the Father. he was saying, I am the perfect representation and expression of the father. when you see me you see the Father. I speak first person from the Father as all prophets before me.
In john 8 the father spoke first person through His son and prophet Jesus christ and told the teachers that He was before Abraham and they should have justified themselves by Him and not Abraham. Because Jesus spoke with authority first person from the Father, the Jews picked up stones to kill him.As I have previously posted. Jesus must be the same as the rest of humanity Any other option invalidates God's plan and Christ as our example.
If you want to make Christ exist from eternity with God then the same must be true for the rest of mankind. There are some that believe man's souls are living in heaven prior to their birth.Anything you do that makes Jesus different then the rest of mankind and you cross the burning bridge with the trinitarians.
Hi m42,
Man as flesh is man.
That says nothing about the inner man, the vessel.
All men are vessels, but not all vessels are the same.
2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves;
2 Timothy 2:20
Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2007,02:11) Hi m42,
Man as flesh is man.
That says nothing about the inner man, the vessel.
All men are vessels, but not all vessels are the same.
2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves;
2 Timothy 2:20
Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor.
Oh !!!! You are a calvanist. that explains much. if you want to discuss the doctrines of predestination, perhaps you should start another thread.Hi t8:
One of the verses to which you refer Tim regarding the pre-existance of Jesus is 1 Co. 10:4. You quote from the NIV which states: “And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual that accompanied them: and that Rock was Christ.
The KJV states: “And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ”.
YLT states: “And all same spiritual drink did drink for they were drinking of a spiritual rock following them, and the rock was Christ;”.
I'm inclined to believe that the correct rendering of the verse would be the “spiritual rock that followed them” and not “accompanied them”. God taught the followers of Moses the Word of God through Moses. We know that Jesus fulfilled the Law through perfect obedience to God's Word without sin even unto death on the cross. Jesus is called the Christ and is also called the Word of God. And so, he is the anointed Word of God.
The Word or Spirit of the Son (the personality of the perfected Son) was with God in the beginning. As 1 Peter 1:20 Jesus was foreordained. He came down from heaven in that He was conceived of the Holy Ghost and the Word of God came down from heaven. Jesus' Spirit or personality was formed as he applied the Word of God in his daily life. (Hebrews 1:3, 5:8:9)
God Bless
Hi 94,
Perhaps a new thread should be started.
Remember YLT is only a literal translation of the same manuscripts the KJV is based on.Quote (music4two @ Feb. 18 2007,18:01) Allow me if you will to apologise to any I may have offended with my impatience. It is not really a matter of impatience with you personally, but rather an impatience with your choices to continually engage in fruitless debate of philosophy.
Not sure if this was directed at me or not, but for what it's worth I apologise for my lack of patience with you too. Someone told me I was being “antagonistic”. Antagonistic?!? – moi?
Quote On several occasions I have attempted to discuss the functionality of the doctrines being propogated on this thread. Unfortunately many are not interested in whether their teachings actually do anything or not. They are happiest when they can convince someone that their teaching is correct, regardless of whether that teaching does anything to move them closer to the plan of God. This endless debate of ideas and concepts that serve no purpose in the plan of God is nothing more then philosophy in it’s simplest terms.
I have responded to this before, but just to re-iterate the essence of my sentiment:-I think the core problem of the “functionality of the doctrines” idea is the sheer subjectivity of it. The doctrinal aspects that you see as aiding in the practicalities of your faith do not resonate with others in the same way (well not for me anyway). A case in point is the “Jesus is just a man” theory of yours. If Yeshua was nothing more than an annointed man, then, IMO, He is not worthy of my living for Him. This doctrine would be inherently disfunctional for me….as it would act to erode the biblical foundation of my faith. A person that existed “in the form of God” and “was God”, but “emptied Himself” and took on the “form of a bondservant” is someone I can put my faith. And that is also someone I can live (or die) for….
Do you see my point?
Blessings
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2007,03:21) The KJV states: “And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ”. YLT states: “And all same spiritual drink did drink for they were drinking of a spiritual rock following them, and the rock was Christ;”.
I'm inclined to believe that the correct rendering of the verse would be the “spiritual rock that followed them” and not “accompanied them”.
In fact, the word 'them' & its equivalent is NOT in the Greek text. It was added by the translators.So the KJV should actually reads: “And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed and that Rock was Christ”.
The Rock that Paul allegorically speaks of here;
did NOT follow/accompany them! NO! Simply …The Rock in the fulness of time, followed!
Just thought I should point out this fact concerning the word 'them'
Quote (Adam Pastor @ Feb. 19 2007,11:37) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2007,03:21) The KJV states: “And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ”. YLT states: “And all same spiritual drink did drink for they were drinking of a spiritual rock following them, and the rock was Christ;”.
I'm inclined to believe that the correct rendering of the verse would be the “spiritual rock that followed them” and not “accompanied them”.
In fact, the word 'them' & its equivalent is NOT in the Greek text. It was added by the translators.So the KJV should actually reads: “And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed and that Rock was Christ”.
The Rock that Paul allegorically speaks of here;
did NOT follow/accompany them! NO! Simply …The Rock in the fulness of time, followed!
Just thought I should point out this fact concerning the word 'them'
Hi Adam Pastor:Thanks for correcting me on that my computer skills are not what I would like them to be, and since I could not figure how to copy and paste the scripture, I was trying to read it out of the bible and type it. I added “them” in error. Just one little word can change the whole meaning of the scripture.
Thanks and God Bless
hello and thank you to all who recently discussed the pre-existence of Christ. i am trying to align my view of God with the scriptures, so i believe this trinity thread is still the appropriate place to post my questions regarding the nature of Christ. funny that i should ask men in an effort to avoid the doctrine of men…
*Why was Jesus conceived of the Holy Spirit? In other words, if Jesus were only fully man, then why did the Savior have to be conceived of the Divine? Why was he referred to as the “holy offspring” that shall be called “the Son of God”?
*If Jesus were only fully man, why be born of a virgin? What would be the purpose?
*If Jesus is conceived of Spirit and born of human what exactly does that make Him? No scripture reads, “…fully God & fully man…” though the best I can come up with is “Son of God” and “Son of Man.” In my simple mind, His conception actually makes Jesus “half God & half man” though I’ve found no scripture to say that either.
* If Jesus did have deity, does that make Him God or part of some Godhead? If so, how can God send Himself to earth? Or how can a part of a Godhead die on the cross?
*If Jesus does have deity and isn’t God or part of a Godhead, does that make Him another god?
*Did Jesus only receive the fullness of God upon receiving the Spirit of God at His baptism? If so, then how was He able to remain sinless and holy from birth to age 30? Did He only reveal the Father after His baptism?
*If Jesus was fully God & fully man while on this earth then how can He truly identify with us in our humanity? How is Jesus to be our example if He were not only fully man?
*No other human had ever been conceived of Divinity, so how can we grasp this concept? Why did it seem so easy for the apostles? They were looking for the Messiah and knew He would be the Son of God. What does that relationship mean?
*Why was Jesus ultimately crucified? What was His sin, His guilt? Was it blasphemy? If so, why does His admission of being the Christ, the Son of God amount to blasphemy? Were not the Jews looking for the Messiah to come also knowing as the disciples did that He would be the Son of God?
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Feb. 19 2007,07:03) Quote (music4two @ Feb. 18 2007,18:01) Allow me if you will to apologise to any I may have offended with my impatience. It is not really a matter of impatience with you personally, but rather an impatience with your choices to continually engage in fruitless debate of philosophy.
Not sure if this was directed at me or not, but for what it's worth I apologise for my lack of patience with you too. Someone told me I was being “antagonistic”. Antagonistic?!? – moi? Quote On several occasions I have attempted to discuss the functionality of the doctrines being propogated on this thread. Unfortunately many are not interested in whether their teachings actually do anything or not. They are happiest when they can convince someone that their teaching is correct, regardless of whether that teaching does anything to move them closer to the plan of God. This endless debate of ideas and concepts that serve no purpose in the plan of God is nothing more then philosophy in it’s simplest terms.
I have responded to this before, but just to re-iterate the essence of my sentiment:-I think the core problem of the “functionality of the doctrines” idea is the sheer subjectivity of it. The doctrinal aspects that you see as aiding in the practicalities of your faith do not resonate with others in the same way (well not for me anyway). A case in point is the “Jesus is just a man” theory of yours. If Yeshua was nothing more than an annointed man, then, IMO, He is not worthy of my living for Him. This doctrine would be inherently disfunctional for me….as it would act to erode the biblical foundation of my faith. A person that existed “in the form of God” and “was God”, but “emptied Himself” and took on the “form of a bondservant” is someone I can put my faith. And that is also someone I can live (or die) for….
Do you see my point?
Blessings
You state –
If Yeshua was nothing more than an annointed man, then, IMO, He is not worthy of my living for Him.This doctrine would be inherently disfunctional for me….as it would act to erode the biblical foundation of my faith.
response – Does the Bible “erode the biblical foundation of your faith?”
Perhaps that is part of the problem. It apears that you have a fundemental problem with God’s judgements and choices. Living for Christ is not dependent upon him being a God or a God that became a man.
Would you refuse honor to a man whom God honors?
Can you refuse to call a man Lord that God has made Lord?
Can you refuse glory to a man whom God has given glory?
Can you give respect to a man that judges with God?
Can you honor, love and respect a man that has shown you the way to live and get to heaven?
Can you respect, obey or honor a man in the position of high Priest of your faith?
Can you love and adore a man that of his own initiative gave his life for you?
Can you respect a man who was made Judge by God?He is made Lord and Christ by God.
Acts 2: 23 and 36 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ–this Jesus whom you crucified.”
Jesus was give glory by God.
John 8:54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';He is do respect as a judge because He does not judge alone.
John 8:16 “But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me.He is worthy of my respect and honor because he has shown the way
Heb 6:20 where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.He is do my love and adoration because He volunterily lay down his life for me.
John 10: 18 “No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again This commandment I received from My Father.”We worship God in the person of Jesus Christ
John 14: 10 10″Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
John 8:50 “But I do not seek My glory; there is One who seeks and judges.I respect him as my judge because Jesus’ authority to Judge came from God.
John 5 :27and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.I pray to Jesus because He is the human mediator between me and God.
1 Temothy 2 : 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,Jesus is worthy of praise because he was attested to by God –
Acts 2:22
“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know–Jesus is worthy of honor because He fullfilled God’s plan.
Acts 2:23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.None of these verses even suggest that the authority given Christ was because He used to be a God. That is an assumption predicated by traditional doctrine and not by scripture.
You state –
A person that existed “in the form of God” and “was God”, but “emptied Himself” and took on the “form of a bondservant” is someone I can put my faith. And that is also someone I can live (or die) for….
Response –
First and formost, you make a fundemental error in ascerting that God can somehow give up being God and become a man. The most basic attribute of the Judeo-Christian God is that He exists and does not change. There are no qualifications and no exceptions to this truth. If a person believes other then this then they have crossed line to believing in another God. Not the God of the bible.You are starting with these false assumptions and then filter and interpret scripture through them.
The portion of scripture from which you take these quotes is taken out of context based on a need to prove a peconcieved idea of doctrine.
Philippines 2
Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion,
2 make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.
3Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;
4do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of other
s.5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
The preceding verses are not about the Godhead, but rather about becoming like Christ.
The second Adam (Jesus) was being compared to the first Adam (Adam)
Jesus is again compared to Adam
Gen 3-4The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die!
5″For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Adam and Eve seeing the fruit was good to eat, set out to meet their own needs. They had freedom to choose and chose to be as God’s deciding for themselves what was right and wrong for them. They chose to make themselves equal with God! They partook of the knowledge of good and evil.
——– Jesus was in the form of God. Created in the image and likeness of God like all other men. He was a complete man in his makeup. Yet Jesus never partook of the knowledge of Good and Evil, therefore had the ability to have the fullness of God dwelling in him. He acted in complete agreement with His Father’s characteristics and therefore had a form of God.
This type of comparison is often used in scripture and is a standard in the way Hebrews thought and wrote.
Moses called the burning bush God and bowed down to worship it. Was the bush really God? Certainly not, but Moses saw a revealing of God and from his Eastern perspective treated it as God.In this portion of scripture Jesus Himself shows that God expects us all to be Gods in the way we deal with our brothers. We are all to be in the form of God in our lives and actions.
John 10
23And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30I and my Father are one.
31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (Notice Jesus is very specific as to who the deity is that dwells in him)
39Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
Psalm 82
1God takes His stand in His own congregation;
He judges in the midst of the rulers.
2How long will you judge unjustly
And show partiality to the wicked? Selah.
3Vindicate the weak and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and destitute.
4Rescue the weak and needy;
Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.
5They do not know nor do they understand;
They walk about in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High.
7″Nevertheless you will die like men
And fall like any one of the princes.”
8Arise, O God, judge the earth!
For it is You who possesses all the nations.— Remember that the Hebrews wrote and taught in concrete alegorical ways. In Psalm 82- Yahweh calls them sons (humanity) of the Most High God. In John 10 Jesus quotes this verse. Again rebuking the pharasees because they are not Gods in their fulfilling of His character toward their fellow men. They did not have a form of God as Jesus did, because they did not have the character of God toward their brethren. Jesus compares their character and their actions to those of God that are revealed in Himself.
Your quotes of Jesus emptying himself and being in the form of God are not proofs of preexistance or deity. If they are then the burning bush, the people of israel and the pharasees are also Gods.
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