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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 11 2007,06:23) Hi Matt,
Unity with God is through unity in truth, not syncretism.
what “truth” are you and your band of brothers actually in union on. (just the ones you happen to agree on at any given time?)Hey nick,
I have enjoyed debates with you and others, but to tell you the truth, since quit started ranting on here it has degraded to something I do not wish to continue. Honestly, if I had any thoughts of becoming a JW, his rantings would have turned me in the opposite direction. As the Lord said. “Know them by their fruits”.Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 11 2007,10:28) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 11 2007,06:23) Hi Matt,
Unity with God is through unity in truth, not syncretism.
what “truth” are you and your band of brothers actually in union on. (just the ones you happen to agree on at any given time?)
Hi qa,
You are so tormented my friend and really struggling to remain in control, and what your heart knows it needs is freedom. Christ can give you that freedom. He makes us free indeed. Free from anxiety and worry, frustration and guilt, hurt and failure and free to serve our God each day.
Seek the will of God.
Matthew 12:50
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.Hi m42,
Down here there is no light except for a glimmer that was provided by the weak thoughts of men.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2007,18:50) Hi m42,
Down here there is no light except for a glimmer that was provided by the weak thoughts of men.
What are you talking about?Hi m42,
Trinity is not of the light of scripture.
Any discussion is only in the realms of human deductive wisdom for what that is worth.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2007,21:58) Hi m42,
Trinity is not of the light of scripture.
Any discussion is only in the realms of human deductive wisdom for what that is worth.
Well at least with WJ and others it was entertaining and sometimes interesting.Absolutely m42 and those who enjoy entertainment will be dismayed at his departure but trying to get men to stay on the path of revealed truth is a serious challenge when orthodoxy has chosen to wander off into the mists and quicksand of deception.
hi nick and music. hello to t8. btw, where did ramblinrose go? i have been busy, busy, busy reading, reading, reading… trying to catch up on almost 5 years worth of posts in the last couple of evenings – so, of course i have not read every post to date. i skipped through a lot of material (usually when i found repeat questions, mean spirited people, or divergence from the original topic of trinity.) i have never posted in a forum of any sort before so please bear with me and i hope you will be willing to show me the ropes.
i have recently been researching, from scripture and men, the doctrine of God, namely the trinity. John 16:13, “when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.”
from what i understand of this, the Holy Spirit is able to teach the disciples of Jesus all truth. that being said, something within me (my own reason, or humility – maybe the voice of truth) says i have a lot to learn from others as well, through the filter of the Spirit of truth, which will not, of course, contradict the written word of God.
i am in a bit of a different place than previous post-ers. (i guess i will have to learn the lingo as i go.
) my deepest desire is to know truth b/c i have a precious little girl who is absorbing every word that i speak to her at the tender age of 3. (i also have a 1 year old daughter who is not far behind her big sister!) we are reading through the book of John as a family (i read to the girls in the morning and my husband reads to all of us at night.) (please read through all of this before you ready the response of your mind and miss the heart behind what i am saying.)
the other morning i was reading my girls the end of chapter 8. after i finished reading vs 58-59, “Jesus said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.' Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple going through the midst of them, and so passed by,” i asked my daughter with great enthusiasm – do you know what that means? and she responded with equal enthusiasm… NO! (i love the honesty and openess of a child – if only i had such a blank slate!) well, i proceeded to tell her that when Jesus said, “I AM” he was saying that He was God and that's why the Jews wanted to throw stones at Him. And she said, no, Jesus isn't God, He's the Son of God. i told her, yes, Jesus is the Son of God, but that also makes Him God and to this she responded with tears! i was completely surprised by her emotional (and emphatic) response. to which i proceeded (while hugging her of course), baby, if Jesus wasn't God then He couldn't have died for our sins. we had to have the perfect Lamb of God shed His blood for us. yes, Jesus is the Son of God, which also makes Him God. no, mama, He's not God, He's the Son of God. and i dutifully replied, sweetheart, sometimes there are things that you cannot understand b/c you are young. you need to trust mama and daddy when we teach you things from the word of God.
and while i do believe the above statement is true, i was so convicted that my husband and i need to make sure we are teaching our girls truth or not teach at all!! i talked to him later that night and we decided to tell her that it was similar to, though not exactly the same, as daddy being papa's son and they both share the same last name because they are family and have the same blood. so Jesus has a heavenly Father and they are of the same family of God. she was still skeptical and my husband and i have been in deep discussions since then. i decided for now to let the word of God speak for itself and absorb into her mind and that i wouldn't interject all my “wisdom” for now.
so, that is how i somehow ended up here. again, i am new to this sort of forum. i'm sorry this is such a long post. (the musings of a mom are endless so be thankful i cut it off here!
) i hope that you can see by the way i presented my story and did not ask any specific questions that my heart is so open to the truth. it would do my heart great good to see by anyone who responds that they understand this and we have a friendly discourse. although in the future i will probably ask a thousand questions (i am very analytical by nature), i by no means ever want to come across as antagonistic and i will not wish to continue if any discussion turns toward hostility.
let's please don't forget that we do share the belief that Jesus is the Son of God, our Savior, which makes us fellow travelers, and we are commanded by Him to love one another. one last thought – “By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” Jesus in John 13:35.
thank you for considering a response and opening up the dialogue of the trinity again. please forgive me if i do not respond with much quickness… i hear my girls calling my name… “MAMA!!” i am so blessed!!
sincerely, teacher(ps – what does track this post mean?)
Hi and welcome tt,
out of the mouth of babes!” And she said, no, Jesus isn't God, He's the Son of God”
” no, mama, He's not God, He's the Son of God. “
Truth” i told her, yes, Jesus is the Son of God, but that also makes Him God “
Not so“if Jesus wasn't God then He couldn't have died for our sins. '
Not so“sometimes there are things that you cannot understand b/c you are young”
Not so.
Added by men to cover their manmade mysteriesYou must listen to your child.
God reaches them by simplicity.ps
“'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.' “
Indeed Christ was before Abraham.Micah 5
” 2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. “He was begotten of God in the beginning.
That does not make him our God.Quote (toteachachild @ Feb. 14 2007,23:35) hi nick and music. hello to t8. btw, where did ramblinrose go? i have been busy, busy, busy reading, reading, reading… trying to catch up on almost 5 years worth of posts in the last couple of evenings – so, of course i have not read every post to date. i skipped through a lot of material (usually when i found repeat questions, mean spirited people, or divergence from the original topic of trinity.) i have never posted in a forum of any sort before so please bear with me and i hope you will be willing to show me the ropes. i have recently been researching, from scripture and men, the doctrine of God, namely the trinity. John 16:13, “when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.”
from what i understand of this, the Holy Spirit is able to teach the disciples of Jesus all truth. that being said, something within me (my own reason, or humility – maybe the voice of truth) says i have a lot to learn from others as well, through the filter of the Spirit of truth, which will not, of course, contradict the written word of God.
i am in a bit of a different place than previous post-ers. (i guess i will have to learn the lingo as i go.
) my deepest desire is to know truth b/c i have a precious little girl who is absorbing every word that i speak to her at the tender age of 3. (i also have a 1 year old daughter who is not far behind her big sister!) we are reading through the book of John as a family (i read to the girls in the morning and my husband reads to all of us at night.) (please read through all of this before you ready the response of your mind and miss the heart behind what i am saying.)
the other morning i was reading my girls the end of chapter 8. after i finished reading vs 58-59, “Jesus said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.' Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple going through the midst of them, and so passed by,” i asked my daughter with great enthusiasm – do you know what that means? and she responded with equal enthusiasm… NO! (i love the honesty and openess of a child – if only i had such a blank slate!) well, i proceeded to tell her that when Jesus said, “I AM” he was saying that He was God and that's why the Jews wanted to throw stones at Him. And she said, no, Jesus isn't God, He's the Son of God. i told her, yes, Jesus is the Son of God, but that also makes Him God and to this she responded with tears! i was completely surprised by her emotional (and emphatic) response. to which i proceeded (while hugging her of course), baby, if Jesus wasn't God then He couldn't have died for our sins. we had to have the perfect Lamb of God shed His blood for us. yes, Jesus is the Son of God, which also makes Him God. no, mama, He's not God, He's the Son of God. and i dutifully replied, sweetheart, sometimes there are things that you cannot understand b/c you are young. you need to trust mama and daddy when we teach you things from the word of God.
and while i do believe the above statement is true, i was so convicted that my husband and i need to make sure we are teaching our girls truth or not teach at all!! i talked to him later that night and we decided to tell her that it was similar to, though not exactly the same, as daddy being papa's son and they both share the same last name because they are family and have the same blood. so Jesus has a heavenly Father and they are of the same family of God. she was still skeptical and my husband and i have been in deep discussions since then. i decided for now to let the word of God speak for itself and absorb into her mind and that i wouldn't interject all my “wisdom” for now.
so, that is how i somehow ended up here. again, i am new to this sort of forum. i'm sorry this is such a long post. (the musings of a mom are endless so be thankful i cut it off here!
) i hope that you can see by the way i presented my story and did not ask any specific questions that my heart is so open to the truth. it would do my heart great good to see by anyone who responds that they understand this and we have a friendly discourse. although in the future i will probably ask a thousand questions (i am very analytical by nature), i by no means ever want to come across as antagonistic and i will not wish to continue if any discussion turns toward hostility.
let's please don't forget that we do share the belief that Jesus is the Son of God, our Savior, which makes us fellow travelers, and we are commanded by Him to love one another. one last thought – “By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.” Jesus in John 13:35.
thank you for considering a response and opening up the dialogue of the trinity again. please forgive me if i do not respond with much quickness… i hear my girls calling my name… “MAMA!!” i am so blessed!!
sincerely, teacher(ps – what does track this post mean?)
Hi toteachachild, nice you meet you.
I don't think you should down play your own intuitive understanding of the verse, it's interesting how many people seem to understand exactly what Yeshua is claiming even without a working background knowledge of the Greek in the verse. My opinion is that with respect to Yeshua, the titles God and the Son of God are not antithetical, in the same sense that 'man' and the 'Son of man' are not. I have come to understand that His sonship is essentially a function of His earthly existence (Luke 1:35, Acts 13:33, Romans 1:4, Hebrews 1:5). The Logos was made flesh and He became a son.You wrote that you were “very analytical by nature”, here is an exposition of John 8:58 that is very much of that bent:
Let me know what you think….
In Him
Is 1:18
toteachachild,
Welcome, within this forum there is truth and a number of opinions. All believe their position to be the correct one (otherwise they would change it) but truth can be found and as one who turned to the Lord 26 years ago when my first child was born and the responsibility of raising a child hit me I understand your position.It is the love for the sake of another which drives you to not want to take any risk. Unfortunately while truth can be found it seems to take a lifetime to do so. I found the best you can do for yourself and your children is to instill a desire for truth, teaching them to keep an open mind but containing it within the scriptures. Don't be afraid to admit you don't know all things but make sure they know the One who does (and remember it for yourself also). Remember truth is absolute and can only be found through seeking, listen to all sides and that which harmonizes with all of scripture will most likely be true.
I have found that the Holy Spirit does indeed bring things to remembrance and reveals truth, and at least for me it is during those quite times alone with God. It is important that you test all things, deception will come mostly from the religious (those who look Godly).
Someone recently posted a definition for love as being the value one puts on another's soul which I thought was the best definition I've ever heard for it. Love is the only pure motive.
May the Lord bless your search for truth -Wm
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Toteach,
What a wonderfull post. Your daughter is completely right. She has not had time for the orthodoxy to indoctrinate her with foolishness that makes no sense.
I might suggest that you check out my thread on the dual nature of Christ. It has some info that will help you. I also posted on this thread, a few days ago, a rather long one on who Jesus is.
God bless you in your search for truth.Hi tt,
God is not a mystic.
He does not hide important truth but makes it plain so that children can find it.
Many times was “I am” spoken in scripture without it having any mystical meaning.
If you have any doubts then read the pasted theological teaching from Is 1.18 to your child and she will soon tell you.hello and thank you all for your thoughtful responses. i was able to read all that you have written, but alas naptime has ended all too soon!
i should have more time tonight to respond more thoughtfully. thank you for your kindness and for your patience. bless the Lord.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2007,18:09) If you have any doubts then read the pasted theological teaching from Is 1.18 to your child and she will soon tell you.
This type of comment is unnecessary….Attack the argument, not the person. A moderator should be aware of this.
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