The Trinity Doctrine

[music4two]

I have been accused of being a Greek!!! How very funny considering some of the outrageous Western thinking that permeates this forum. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

I will be the first to admit that I am still in the process of overcoming my western (Greek) cultural thinking.
Perhaps some others should consider where they are in that process.
Perhaps before someone accuse others of Greek policies they should consider how they line up with these. —–

Only Greeks would insist that everyone seek the same fullfillment from a forum as they do.
Why? Because they must defend their method of intelectual ear tickling debate.

Only Greeks debate doctrine without examining the functionality of those doctrines!
Why? Because they are more interested in intelectual data exchange then they are in actual functional teaching that changes people to become like Christ. They are more interested in proving themselves right then changing people’s lives.

Only Greeks debate scripture without coming to an agreement on a proper interpretive process!
Why? Their doctrine will not bear close examination and they cannot risk being proven wrong, because their security is in their doctrine instead of in God.

Only Greeks believe that having an intelectual understanding of teaching means they truly posses it.
Why? Because an intelectual understanding is very easy compared to having your hearts, motives and intentions lined up with a functional teaching from a functional God.

Only Greeks continually attempt to
understand scripture written in a Eastern Hebrew culture with a Western cultural mindset!
Why? Because most do not want to think from the heart and base doctrine on matters of the heart and not the head. Others are just too lazy to learn how Hebrews thought and wrote.

Only Greeks use philosiphical platitudes.
Why? Because they must prove their spirituality by virtue of their clever poetic speech. Secondly because they must respond with something.

Only Greeks and wackos constantly throw out the same scriptures over and over again without dealing with the actual meanings of those verses.
Why? Because they have camped and will not more beyond their present position.

Only Greeks accuse others of being in a cult.
Why? Because they are not interested in changing other's lives, only making accusations.

Only Greeks feel it necessary to be involved in every single thread on a forum.
Why? Again to prove their spirituality.

Only Greeks believe that intelectual data exchange on forums is an effective way to minister.
Why? Because some are not willing to be vulnerable to others in real life. Others have tried to engage in intelectual ministries only to realise that those they attempt to minister to demand a more functional doctrine.

[quitarguingoverstupidstuff]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 07 2007,23:47)

Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 07 2007,09:57) Quote (david @ Feb. 07 2007,08:51) Quote You didn't study scripture and arrive at the very same conclusions as the watchtower, then join them. You joined and then became indoctrinated. So your unity in belief is coerced and false. You just tow the party line. Try independant thought David. I most absolutely certainly didn't “join them” “and then [become] indoctrinated.” So everything you say that follows is based on a false assumption. I studied with them over years and years. I did not have to become a Witness. I was not born into a Witness family or anything like that. My dad and much of my family were and still are opposed to JW's. I now undertand why you find it so hard to believe that two people can agree. Remember when Jesus said: You will know the truth…. Some, do know the truth. Those people do in fact agree. They don't disagree. These men's “independent thoughts” are exactly what Satan told Eve to do…….Don't listen to their bullcrap. Independent thinking is why Satan came to be in the first place. He felt his thinking was more important than gods. My suggestion is to believe the Bible in it's entirety, or don't bother. These jerkoffs focus on just enough scriptures to try and prove their “independent thinking”, and push it onto others. Make no mistake about it, god expects you to know how to think for yourself, but only with a bible trained conscious. These guys don't follow the “entire” bible, they pick and choose, just like any “independent thinker” would. Just like Satan tried to twist the scriptures when trying to trick Jesus. There is only one group on earth that agree and are completely united in their beliefs (1 Corinth 1:10) I wouldn't advise spending much time on these sites if you are not fully prepared to beat these pons of Satan at their own game. After over 10 years of fighting against the “truth” I've finally decided to get back with the happiest people on earth. (something I haven't been in many years) Seeing apostate material and how much these jerks twist information is what got me pissed off enough to get back on track, but this is not usually what happens when people start looking into their bullshit, so you'd probably be best to leave these blog sites alone. I'm going to be canceling soon if I can't get some of these “know it alls” to start proving themselves. (and I'm sure they won't) Not to mention, It's a real waste of time (1 Tim 6:4) I've been on this stupid computer for hours, and all I got to do was bicker with a couple of ignorant morons. What a waste of time!! I now understand why the witnesses keep going door to door….they're able to meet more people and share truth faster, than wasting time on stupid blog sites. Anyway….I can tell already that most people on these sites have one purpose…..to keep others as ignorant as they are. There's so much unchristian propaganda on the web, that anyone searching for truth is going to be bombarded by all sorts of “Differences of opinions”, you've already used your god given right to use “Intelligent reasoning” to figure out that no group on earth is as united as the Jehovah's Witnesses (regardless of any past human errors that have already been dealt with and corrected) My father is an apostate, and hates the witnesses (because he knows they're right and it pisses him off, I was the same way for many years), so I understand what it's like to deal with opposition. Use common sense, and don't pay much attention to anyone that can't back up what they believe, and why they believe it. Get away from speaking with morons like these guys…It's a waste of time! Don't try and throw perils in front of these swine….they've got nothing to lose wasting their time on here (2 Tim 2:14-19)(Heb 10:24-25)………..but you do!!!! If you're studying, keep it up, but don't get baptized unless you're serious……because unlike all other religious beliefs on earth……….making a dedication to the “true” god Jehovah is not something to be taken lightly. Hi qa, Are you sure the JWs want you back before you've done a mouthwash and cleaned up your attitude?

You said…….

“Hi qa,
Are you sure the JWs want you back before you've done a mouthwash and cleaned up your attitude?”

My answer is probably not. I've got some serious humbling to do.

I walked away 10 years ago so as to follow the same “independent” thinking most of you guys prefer. The only difference is that I actually had real knowledge about the bible before I went out on my own. I've lived a relatively clean moral life, but of course always had my own “independent” views on certain subjects.

This “independent” thinking made it difficult for me to accept the bibles view on things.

If someone hit me, I'd prefer to return the favor 10 fold…..not exactly “turning the cheek”.

I inherited my pride from my father, who although a good man, absolutely hates being corrected for bad behavior, or for pushing his own opinions. He felt any mistakes he made were between him and god, and no one else.

This is not how early Christian congregations handled things at all. Their are examples of certain men being “disassociated” from early congregations because of trying to push their own prideful views, and not that of the written word.

I'm coming to grips with how my pride made me walk away many years ago, but my knowledge on the bible has never faded. There is no going back once a person truly understands what the bible teaches.

I can fight it all I want, but coming here (to this site and several others), and seeing the “many” false doctrines and beliefs that people take as real (including “independent” thinking), is absolutely amazing to me.

My previous knowledge has made me see what the bible meant by it being worse for the man who learns such knowledge to then go back to his old ways of “independent” thinking, and back to his own vomit.

I'm sorry for my bad behavior in past messages, I was quite embarrassed and ashamed to say the least when I callmed down and read them later.

I've got anger issues that I personally have got to come to grips with, before the witnesses will ever allow me to become a publisher, and go door to door.

Otherwise I'll end up on the news as “The Jehovah's Witness that beat a man half to death after the householder shoved the witness down while he was out in the ministry” (lol) (and that certainly wouldn't be a praiseworthy gift to Jehovah, by any means)

Whether what I said was true or not in past messages, it doesn't excuse my methods. I've always been an avid seeker of knowledge and personally despise people who choose ignorance over fact.

I despise ignorance with a passion, which is probably why I have so much anger towards this world…..because it is filled with people that prefer to blind themselves to what is really happening in the world today. (on many different subjects)

Again I apologize, for my bad behavior, and any new conversations will be much more civil. (or I simply will control my self to not answer at all)

You seem like an intelligent guy, so you might find the information below very interesting. (they have nothing to do with pushing any religious belief…….simply education with historical knowledge)

(obviously not everything we see on the internet is true, so do research on wikopedia, as a guide…..some stuff I'm sure is just opinion, but most information can be backed by historical fact……..which is quite sobering to say the least)

If you get a chance go to Google Video and search these 2 movies:

“Monopoly Men” and “Who Controls The World”

[NickHassan]

Hi m42,
Functionality?
We are not talking soul engineering here.

Being called is of grace.
Repentance is by grace.
Change is by grace.
Knowledge is by grace.
Wisdom is by grace
Learning is by grace.
Salvation is by grace.
Restoration is by grace.

Not by might nor by power but by My Spirit.

Grace.

So what did you say men could offer God?

[NickHassan]

Hi qa,

We are all ignorant to some degree so there is no point in getting angry at others for having the same problem.
We are not independant thinkers but servant of a Lord who rightly demands we who have been reborn into him must abide in his teachings. We teach that men must obey Jesus if they call him their Lord. Orthodox belief has wandered far from truth as revealed but men have chosen to follow human leaders rather than check their own path.
When men face judgement it will be one to one with Jesus and no doctrine of man will justify anything before him. That being the case then we should seek now to be aligned with him so that he welcomes us as faithful servants and serves us at his wedding feast.
Does anything else matter?

[NickHassan]

Hi m42,
It was the greeks in Athens who sought to be amused by the word of God. They adapted the teachings of Jesus to their empty philosophies and corrupted truth with their myths and legends.
You have contributed well here in the past and been very positive so I would encourage you to continue in that vein.

[quitarguingoverstupidstuff]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 08 2007,00:06)

Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 08 2007,06:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 07 2007,08:36) Hi qa, Why are you so angry? Are you this angry with everyone? My faith is what the bible teaches so read the bible. I have written 12,000 plus posts here so it is not too hard to find what I believe I'm angry because you guys twist the scriptures and bash witnesses. You guys make comment about early congregations, but then say you don't need them anymore. Where do you get these ideas? I don't even care anymore, because you all want to believe what YOU want to believe, and trying to use common sense doesn't seem to work here. You guys have seriously weirded me out, with how you make comments, and then don't even remotely try to back them up. you guys put your own thinking and opinions above gods. (Prov 8:13) To quitarguingoverstupidstuff. I personally bash all denominations and cults. Long term members on these forums can confirm that. I myself and others are more interested in the truth than what religious system to follow. This discussion is about the Trinity which I believe to be a Babylonian doctrine. I also believe that denominations and cults are the result of men following after other men. e.g., “Are you a follower of Paul, Apollos, Christ?”, “are you a follower of Russell, JWs, Athanasius (Catholics), Martin Luther, etc”. Are we not mere men when we say and argue such things? Rather we should follow Christ who leads us to God. If we are one in Christ then we have true unity. Any other unity is what the world gives and is only skin deep. We can congregate anywhere at anytime. It is not every Sunday and in a particular hall. The wind doesn't blow in the same direction every Sunday, so if we are led by the Spirit, then our congregations are not predictable, but we are like the wind as it is written. If we have eyes to see, then we will see our brothers and sisters in Christ. We will see beyond the physical constraints imposed by men and the god of this age.

Go to “Restored Worldwide Church of God” ( http://www.thercg.org ) to learn about every truth that the bible teaches. This information is entirely free.

And they don't use Jehovah's name, just god, lord, GOD, or LORD……………. so that should make everyone happy.

The BIBLE agrees (notice how I didn't say I agree?) with about everything this site teaches except a few “off-base” extremist views, as well as a quote from the author of the site that says to become a member, your have to pass “his” qualifications, as well as then being required to “Tithe” if you become a member. (This just doesn’t mix well with me)

It's been many years sense I've read the bible, but I believe Jesus said to “give freely”, not “this is what you have to give” (but maybe I'm a bit rusty…who knows?)

Either way, all you “free minded” independent thinkers might be able to learn a few things, and you never have to make a commitment…….so this information is right up your ally.

All I care about is the “truth” being spread by what ever means possible.

The fact that the guy that built this site is a puppet of Herbert W. Armstrong, doesn't change the fact that most of the information is factually backed by the Bible (of course there's some personal opinions thrown in here and there, but the bulk of the “meat” is still factual)

You all say you want to know for a fact what the Bible teaches, well…..here's your chance to find out for free and with no “label” being branded on you, no commitment required and especially without that nasty name “Jehovah” showing up everywhere!

No pressure………

You either want biblical truth, or you don't…..search and you will find it……………….

[music4two]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2007,01:03)

Hi m42, Functionality? We are not talking soul engineering here. Being called is of grace. Repentance is by grace. Change is by grace. Knowledge is by grace. Wisdom is by grace Learning is by grace. Salvation is by grace. Restoration is by grace. Not by might nor by power but by My Spirit. Grace. So what did you say men could offer God?

Those are nice platitudes. Are you saying that we have nothing to do but wait for God to do evrything in us?
It's easy to throw out statements like “knowledge is by grace”. So is God just going to give you knowledge? If so, why are you on this site? You, yourself have said you are on here to learn. That means you are exercising your free will and taking an active role in aquiring knowledge.

We have an active role in working with God to become “mature” sons or daughters. We have free will. We do not sit and wait for God to do it in us. “The bride has made herself ready”.
It is not soul engeneering to actively seek God. It is not soul engeneering to consistantly open your heart to God's healing touch. It is not soul engeneering to seek ever deepening relationship with the lover of your soul. It is not soul engeneering to seek teachings that actually work to help you become like Christ and to reject those teachings that do nothing toward that goal.

When I speak of functionality of a doctrine, I am speaking of how that doctrine works to enable me to become like Christ.

I know you are not a Trinitarian. Neither am I. I did not first reject the Trinity on the basis of scriptural proof texts as most Greek thinkers do. I first rejected the Trinity because believing Christ is God takes him out of the realms of being human and therefore he could never be an example for me. If a God overcame temptation, how does that inspire or motivate me? If a God is raised from the dead, how is that a hope that I will be raised from the dead? If Christ has a dual nature, how is that a help to me with a single nature?

Do you see what I mean by functionality? The doctrine of the Trinity does not function in reality. It does nothing to help me become like Christ. In fact it hinders that process. The doctrine of the Trinity is a philosophical theory whose primary use is to sidetrack Christians from becoming like Christ.

What can we offer God? What he created in us to do. Love from a free will. Does it seem functional that God would accept robots programed to love Him, outside of their free will. Would that be real love? Does that really function ion the real world?

[quitarguingoverstupidstuff]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2007,01:13)

Hi qa, We are all ignorant to some degree so there is no point in getting angry at others for having the same problem. We are not independant thinkers but servant of a Lord who rightly demands we who have been reborn into him must abide in his teachings. We teach that men must obey Jesus if they call him their Lord. Orthodox belief has wandered far from truth as revealed but men have chosen to follow human leaders rather than check their own path. When men face judgement it will be one to one with Jesus and no doctrine of man will justify anything before him. That being the case then we should seek now to be aligned with him so that he welcomes us as faithful servants and serves us at his wedding feast. Does anything else matter?

I'm sorry but all of your responses seem so “fluffy”, that I have a heard time grasping your point.

[music4two]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2007,01:22)

Hi m42, It was the greeks in Athens who sought to be amused by the word of God. They adapted the teachings of Jesus to their empty philosophies and corrupted truth with their myths and legends. You have contributed well here in the past and been very positive so I would encourage you to continue in that vein.

I never said that scripture was entertaining. I said the process of forum debate is entertaining. What other purpose it has is a matter of opinion. It is your opinon that there is much more spiritual results here then mere intelectual data exchange. My opinion differs.

[quitarguingoverstupidstuff]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 08 2007,00:18)

To quitarguingoverstupidstuff. Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 08 2007,05:59) You said…. “Some people here actually love seeking the truth together, but we have to put up with all kinds of weird people coming here sometimes”. Your funny. Nobody wants the real truth here, you guys attack anyone who even remotely questions your flimsy beliefs. You have judged incorrectly. We judge the works of men for what they are. A true teaching or message given with scriptural basis is gladly received. We rightly judge all those who come here for the sole purpose of promoting (or spamming) their denomination, organisation, party pills, and any other product of man. If you came here with teachings that were scripturally based, then you would have been received. But you came here like many do and basically said JWs are the way and the rest are crap compared to them. We also frown upon those who come here and say Catholics are the way, or Mormons are the way. In the end we have all these so-called Christians saying their Church is the way and we have stepped back from such nonsense and prefer that people bring teachings that are from scripture and not denominational promotion. Now this discussion is about the Trinity. If you have anything to say on that subject then go ahead. Just keep denominational promotion to the advertising section of newspapers etc. These forums are not for free advertising of any product.

Want to learn detailed facts about the Trinity?

Go to “Restored Worldwide Church of God” ( http://www.thercg.org ) to learn about EVERY truth that the bible teaches.

This information is entirely free.

And they don't use Jehovah's name, just god, lord, GOD, or LORD……………. so that should make everyone happy.

The BIBLE agrees (notice how I didn't say I agree?) with about everything this site teaches except a few “off-base” extremist views, as well as a quote from the author of the site that says to become a member, your have to pass “his” qualifications, as well as then being required to “Tithe” if you become a member. (This just doesn’t mix well with me)

It's been many years sense I've read the bible, but I believe Jesus said to “give freely”, not “this is what you have to give” (but maybe I'm a bit rusty…who knows?)

Either way, all you “free minded” independent thinkers might be able to learn a few things, and you never have to make a commitment…….so this information is right up your ally.

All I care about is the “truth” being spread by what ever means possible.

The fact that the guy that built this site is a puppet of Herbert W. Armstrong, doesn't change the fact that most of the information is factually backed by the Bible (of course there's some personal opinions thrown in here and there, but the bulk of the “meat” is still factual)

You all say you want to know for a fact what the Bible teaches, well…..here's your chance to find out for free and with no “label” being branded on you, no commitment required and especially without that nasty name “Jehovah” showing up everywhere!

No pressure………

You either want biblical truth, or you don't…..search and you will find it……………….

[NickHassan]

Hi qa,
Acts 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

[NickHassan]

Hi m42,
Vessels are functionally useful in any house.
We are earthenware vessels in the house of God.
We are vessels made clean to serve the king and submission to grace is the key.

Matthew 8:8
The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

The Spirit is the key.
Lk 11
52Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered

Prayer is the key
Lk 11
“9And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

10For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. “

Grace is the Key
2Peter 1
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ”

I agree trinity is an intellectual diversion and a stumbling block that denies Christ as the Son of God causing men to stumble over the stone.

[music4two]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2007,02:16)

Hi m42, Vessels are functionally useful in any house. We are earthenware vessels in the house of God. We are vessels made clean to serve the king and submission to grace is the key. Matthew 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. The Spirit is the key. Lk 11 52Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered Prayer is the key Lk 11 “9And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. “ Grace is the Key 2Peter 1 1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ” I agree trinity is an intellectual diversion and a stumbling block that denies Christ as the Son of God causing men to stumble over the stone.

Not talking about vessels. I am speaking of doctrines/teachings.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (music4two @ Feb. 09 2007,01:55)

Those are nice platitudes. Are you saying that we have nothing to do but wait for God to do evrything in us? It's easy to throw out statements like “knowledge is by grace”. So is God just going to give you knowledge? If so, why are you on this site? You, yourself have said you are on here to learn. That means you are exercising your free will and taking an active role in aquiring knowledge. We have an active role in working with God to become “mature” sons or daughters. We have free will. We do not sit and wait for God to do it in us. “The bride has made herself ready”.

Good points, well made. I agree that the onus is on us to actively acquire knowledge, having the Holy Spirit does not mean we abducate our responsibility to engage our mind and actually work hard at learning.

Quote

When I speak of functionality of a doctrine, I am speaking of how that doctrine works to enable me to become like Christ. I know you are not a Trinitarian. Neither am I. I did not first reject the Trinity on the basis of scriptural proof texts as most Greek thinkers do. I first rejected the Trinity because believing Christ is God takes him out of the realms of being human and therefore he could never be an example for me. If a God overcame temptation, how does that inspire or motivate me? If a God is raised from the dead, how is that a hope that I will be raised from the dead? If Christ has a dual nature, how is that a help to me with a single nature? Do you see what I mean by functionality? The doctrine of the Trinity does not function in reality. It does nothing to help me become like Christ. In fact it hinders that process. The doctrine of the Trinity is a philosophical theory whose primary use is to sidetrack Christians from becoming like Christ.

I look at this differently. If Yahshua was just a man annointed by YHWH, then, to me, he would not be worthy of my adulation to the point where I would live for him. It makes all the difference that He did pre-exist His eartly entrance and in fact “was God” (John 1:1c). Someone Who:

“…existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross” (Philippians 2:6-8)

certainly engenders my deepest respect, and is someone I can live for. So the functionality of doctrine can work both ways….

Do you see my point?

[quitarguingoverstupidstuff]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2007,02:07)

Hi qa, Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

What point are you shooting for here?

Why can't you speak with “straight talk”, but instead with just throwing scriptures out with no explanation as to what point you are trying to make?

You are very confusing to conversate with.

Let's practice a normal conversation…..shall we?

Ok….I'm going to ask you a question, and than I would like it if you could simply answer YES…….or…………NO.

Ready? Let's practice………………

Do you celebrate Christmas?

(please answer with a simple YES or NO, and not one of your usual incoherent answers)

[Is 1:18]

Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 07 2007,10:19)

Your right….I need to watch my mouth, and quit drinking so much, and control my anger. I need to learn how to control myself. (this is why I couldn't make it as a Witness) Regardless, You little punks with your “wishy washy” ways can revel in your “Independent Thinking”….I'm sure the fact that the God of the bible never condoned it, must be an oversight on Gods part, because you guys have definitely got it all figured out. I was hoping to see some intelligence come out of your all seeing “independent” minds…..but all I see is a bunch of poo. (Their…..I'm starting to work on my potty mouth….happy?)

Hello quitarguingoverstupidstuff,
Good to see some genuine humility from you. Kudos. A question for you though, if the watchtower allowed you back, would you automatically embrace every one of their teachings without ever questioning its veracity?

[NickHassan]

Hi m42,
You say
'Not talking about vessels. I am speaking of doctrines/teachings. “

Peter soaked up all the wisdom Jesus revealed from God.
Jn 6

68Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

69And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Jesus was excited that Peter had been taught of God's Spirit.

Matt 16
“16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.”

A vessel cleansed and educated by the word and the Spirit and able to be used of God.

[quitarguingoverstupidstuff]

Quote (music4two @ Feb. 09 2007,02:05)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2007,01:22) Hi m42, It was the greeks in Athens who sought to be amused by the word of God. They adapted the teachings of Jesus to their empty philosophies and corrupted truth with their myths and legends. You have contributed well here in the past and been very positive so I would encourage you to continue in that vein. I never said that scripture was entertaining. I said the process of forum debate is entertaining. What other purpose it has is a matter of opinion. It is your opinon that there is much more spiritual results here then mere intelectual data exchange. My opinion differs.

I find it funny that most people on this site say that all “religions” are wrong because they are simply “mans” opinion, when in all honesty…….this entire site is the exact same thing. (independent opinions)

here's something all of you can try……………… Don't worry….the information provided on this site is not my opinion, but the bibles. Once you understand the bible well, you will be able to tell what “opinions” come from man, and which ones come from the bible.

You can gain great knowledge from this informational site, but it will not change who you are as a person, it will simply raise your intelligence of what the bible teaches.

Once you accurately understand what the bible teaches, you can than come to an accurate knowledge of what the bible says GOD expects from his servants. (and yes….we are all his servants, regardless of how smart we think we are)

Enjoy………………….

Go to “Restored Worldwide Church of God” ( http://www.thercg.org ) to learn about every truth that the bible teaches. This information is entirely free.

And they don't use Jehovah's name, just god, lord, GOD, or LORD……………. so that should make everyone happy.

The BIBLE agrees (notice how I didn't say I agree?) with about everything this site teaches except a few “off-base” extremist views, as well as a quote from the author of the site that says to become a member, your have to pass “his” qualifications, as well as then being required to “Tithe” if you become a member. (This just doesn’t mix well with me)

It's been many years sense I've read the bible, but I believe Jesus said to “give freely”, not “this is what you have to give” (but maybe I'm a bit rusty…who knows?)

Either way, all you “free minded” independent thinkers might be able to learn a few things, and you never have to make a commitment…….so this information is right up your ally.

All I care about is the “truth” being spread by what ever means possible.

The fact that the guy that built this site is a puppet of Herbert W. Armstrong, doesn't change the fact that most of the information is factually backed by the Bible (of course there's some personal opinions thrown in here and there, no different than in here), but the bulk of the “meat” is still factual)

You all say you want to know for a fact what the Bible teaches, well…..here's your chance to find out for free and with no “label” being branded on you, no commitment required and especially without that nasty name “Jehovah” showing up everywhere!

No pressure………

You either want biblical truth, or you don't…..search and you will find it……………….

[NickHassan]

Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 09 2007,03:51)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 09 2007,02:07) Hi qa, Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: What point are you shooting for here? Why can't you speak with “straight talk”, but instead with just throwing scriptures out with no explanation as to what point you are trying to make? You are very confusing to conversate with. Let's practice a normal conversation…..shall we? Ok….I'm going to ask you a question, and than I would like it if you could simply answer YES…….or…………NO. Ready? Let's practice……………… Do you celebrate Christmas? (please answer with a simple YES or NO, and not one of your usual incoherent answers)

Hi qa,
What do you mean?
Do I go to midnight mass? no
Do I enjoy the holiday with my family? Yes.
No point in going to work as no one else is there and we love each other and any excuse is good enough for a celebratory reunion.

[quitarguingoverstupidstuff]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Feb. 09 2007,03:52)

Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 07 2007,10:19) Your right….I need to watch my mouth, and quit drinking so much, and control my anger. I need to learn how to control myself. (this is why I couldn't make it as a Witness) Regardless, You little punks with your “wishy washy” ways can revel in your “Independent Thinking”….I'm sure the fact that the God of the bible never condoned it, must be an oversight on Gods part, because you guys have definitely got it all figured out. I was hoping to see some intelligence come out of your all seeing “independent” minds…..but all I see is a bunch of poo. (Their…..I'm starting to work on my potty mouth….happy?) Hello quitarguingoverstupidstuff, Good to see some genuine humility from you. Kudos. A question for you though, if the watchtower allowed you back, would you automatically embrace every one of their teachings without ever questioning its veracity?

Nope……….I know too much not to………..

But I will say this……..I'm not bigger or better than the god of the Israelites, and as a people they weren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but they were still backed by the true god of the bible. My guess is the true god of the bible will make every “mystery” come to light for his chosen ones on earth that “strive” to follow his word as he meant it to be followed.

I've spent over 10 years on my own, and I've researched more information than is probably healthy for a normal human to research, and through all of it…………..I still find my self back at understanding that there is only one group of individuals that are meeting ALL of the requirements required from the bible (not me) as the example Jesus gave as to how to understand the times of the end, as well as what would separate his people from the rest of the world.

There are many groups of religions and independents in todays world. None of these facts change what the bible says GOD expects from his “true” followers. They'd spread his world through all the inhabited earth, they'd sanctify his fathers name, they'd be united in this mission, and they'd all speak in agreement.

The Israelites were Gods chosen people in early Bible books, and they were by no means perfect (far from it), but they were still the group of individuals that he showed favor to, reguardless of their faults. If outsiders wanted in….the Israelites let them in.

Pharaoh didn't believe in their GOD named (fill in the blank), and in fact he said “Who is this god named (fill in the blank), I know not of this god named (fill in the blank)”, shortly before he got his prideful butt handed to him.

The bible shows today's world what GOD expected from his chosen people. He makes it very obvious in the scriptures in how you would be able to recognize them from their fruits.

I've examined every fruit on every tree, including the “born again” tree. Born again Christians have the most faith of any type of “belief” (besides Pentecostals) that I've ever seen, but they fail to recognize that they are still very much a part of the world in the fact that most of them follow the “traditions of the world” (holidays that stem from Babylon) that have been passed on to them. Many also decide on their own that it's ok to fight in this world's wars. I've also found “unity” to be something extremely lacking in each “born again” Christians belief structure.
Every single one of them has their own belief…..it makes for great “intellectual” discussions over tea and crumpets, but still doesn't change the facts.

Your smart, read (Danial 12:4) (Matthew 24: 3-14) and (Matthew 10: 11-23)

There's a bunch of other scriptures as well to “Completely” understand what is going on in todays world, but I don't need to bombard you.

I've got “ENDURE” tattooed down the right side of my chest. I doubt this is what Jesus meant by “enduring till the end” (but heck, when your drunk, and confused about life, you end up doing and thinking lots of weird things)

I've experienced more in my life than you may ever understand. Over time I've came to understand much, but the more I live life and the more I start to think I'm pretty smart, the more I find out that I'm not that smart after all. (especially on my own)

I've gained “INTENSE” knowledge of the political history of our country. Combined with my intense understanding of the book of revelation…….this triggered me to start researching how to align myself with biblical teachings.

Because there are some serious things coming our way, and no one is supposed to be able to say “I didn't know”. This would mean that God's Name would have to be spread worldwide by his “UNITED” people that speak in agreement, before the time would occur. Do you know God's name? Who did you here about it from?

I've come across multiple “beliefs” that come close to meeting “ALL” of the requirements described in god's word the bible, but there has always been some belief that they “currently” still believe or preach that is not in accordance with the bible.

Now I emphasize “currently” because there are several “groups” that claim to be god's only people (like the Israelites), but can be deciphered as not GOD's people by how they prove themselves lacking by their “fruits”.

You'd have to understand the bible at a level you currently do not possess to be able to decipher these differences, and seeing as to how your teacher is the same guy that looks back at you every morning when you brush your teeth…..you may never reach this point.

The Israelites were God's chosen people regardless of their imperfections. They had Jesus killed when he came as their savior which opened up the opportunity we all have as Christians………but………we need to be able to recognize his people by their fruits.

Jesus asked for his fathers name to be sanctified in his example of the lords prayer.

Ask yourself……what's the name of the father of Jesus?

Then ask yourself…….who's actually sanctifying that name around the whole world for a witness to all the nations?

I've fought the facts for enough time to realize that I'm not as powerful as gods earthly organization that has proved themselves from their “united” fruits.

You have the right to make your own decisions and have your own opinion…..this site proves this fact beyond a shadow of a doubt.

No one knows the exact date when the crap is going to hit the fan (so to speak), but I happen to know and understand what the bible teaches very, very well, and I also happen to know about many political lies that most people except as “truth”, and because of this knowledge I've been able to figure out exactly where we all stand in the test of time…………

I'm willing to bet my life that I understand more about world conditions and biblical facts than you do……..but that knowledge didn't change my heart condition. (which has gotten very hard over the years).

It's because of this reason I have now been forced to set my EGO to the side, and swallow my pride…..and humble myself……and use my bible knowledge to make my choice.

I'm a bad ass, but I'm certainly not tougher than “reality”…..and that's exactly what is coming our
way.

[Author]

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