The Trinity Doctrine

Participant

Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 07 2007,09:57)

Quote (david @ Feb. 07 2007,08:51)

Quote

You didn't study scripture and arrive at the very same conclusions as the watchtower, then join them. You joined and then became indoctrinated. So your unity in belief is coerced and false. You just tow the party line. Try independant thought David.

I most absolutely certainly didn't “join them” “and then [become] indoctrinated.” So everything you say that follows is based on a false assumption.
I studied with them over years and years. I did not have to become a Witness. I was not born into a Witness family or anything like that. My dad and much of my family were and still are opposed to JW's.

I now undertand why you find it so hard to believe that two people can agree.
Remember when Jesus said: You will know the truth….
Some, do know the truth. Those people do in fact agree. They don't disagree.

These men's “independent thoughts” are exactly what Satan told Eve to do…….Don't listen to their bullcrap.

Independent thinking is why Satan came to be in the first place. He felt his thinking was more important than gods.

My suggestion is to believe the Bible in it's entirety, or don't bother. These jerkoffs focus on just enough scriptures to try and prove their “independent thinking”, and push it onto others. Make no mistake about it, god expects you to know how to think for yourself, but only with a bible trained conscious. These guys don't follow the “entire” bible, they pick and choose, just like any “independent thinker” would. Just like Satan tried to twist the scriptures when trying to trick Jesus.

There is only one group on earth that agree and are completely united in their beliefs (1 Corinth 1:10)

I wouldn't advise spending much time on these sites if you are not fully prepared to beat these pons of Satan at their own game.

After over 10 years of fighting against the “truth” I've finally decided to get back with the happiest people on earth. (something I haven't been in many years)

Seeing apostate material and how much these jerks twist information is what got me pissed off enough to get back on track, but this is not usually what happens when people start looking into their bullshit, so you'd probably be best to leave these blog sites alone. I'm going to be canceling soon if I can't get some of these “know it alls” to start proving themselves. (and I'm sure they won't)

Not to mention, It's a real waste of time (1 Tim 6:4)
I've been on this stupid computer for hours, and all I got to do was bicker with a couple of ignorant morons. What a waste of time!!

I now understand why the witnesses keep going door to door….they're able to meet more people and share truth faster, than wasting time on stupid blog sites.

Anyway….I can tell already that most people on these sites have one purpose…..to keep others as ignorant as they are.

There's so much unchristian propaganda on the web, that anyone searching for truth is going to be bombarded by all sorts of “Differences of opinions”, you've already used your god given right to use “Intelligent reasoning” to figure out that no group on earth is as united as the Jehovah's Witnesses (regardless of any past human errors that have already been dealt with and corrected)

My father is an apostate, and hates the witnesses (because he knows they're right and it pisses him off, I was the same way for many years), so I understand what it's like to deal with opposition.

Use common sense, and don't pay much attention to anyone that can't back up what they believe, and why they believe it.

Get away from speaking with morons like these guys…It's a waste of time!

Don't try and throw perils in front of these swine….they've got nothing to lose wasting their time on here (2 Tim 2:14-19)(Heb 10:24-25)………..but you do!!!!

If you're studying, keep it up, but don't get baptized unless you're serious……because unlike all other religious beliefs on earth……….making a dedication to the “true” god Jehovah is not something to be taken lightly.

Hi qa,
Are you sure the JWs want you back before you've done a mouthwash and cleaned up your attitude?

February 7, 2007 at 11:57 pm#39451

Participant

Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 08 2007,05:36)

The early Cristian Congregations were put in the bible as an example for us to follow you confused little “Jesus Freak” puppet.

They were a group of “multiple” Congregations that were all expected to speak in agreement with each other and strive to stay united. (as an example for modern Christians)

Why would their be so much biblical material provided in the bible regarding these congregations (after Jesus died mind you), if all we really had to do was….”Look to the Messiah” as you put it?

To quitarguingoverstupidstuff.

These congregations were geographical locations and not denominations or cults.

To the Church in Thyatira
To the Church in Pricilla and Aquilla's house.
To the Church in Laodicea, etc…

So getting us to believe that all those united in Jesus survived for thousands of years, only to change their name to Jehovah Witnesses recently is a lot to ask.

I certainly do not believe this could have happened. If I did, then I might as well consider that the Mormons, Christadelphians, or any other cult and denomination is the correct one.

Rather the Church (those who are united in Christ) have always been since the time Christ said “upon this rock I will build my Church”.

I mean do you really believe that Christ who builds his Church decided to call it Jehovah Witnesses recently and then set up all these JW Congregation Halls.

If we do not understand what the Church is, then I guess the only alternative is to look to a religious institution.

February 8, 2007 at 12:06 am#39452

Participant

Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 08 2007,06:17)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 07 2007,08:36)

Hi qa,
Why are you so angry?
Are you this angry with everyone?
My faith is what the bible teaches so read the bible.
I have written 12,000 plus posts here so it is not too hard to find what I believe

I'm angry because you guys twist the scriptures and bash witnesses.

You guys make comment about early congregations, but then say you don't need them anymore. Where do you get these ideas?

you guys put your own thinking and opinions above gods.
(Prov 8:13)

To quitarguingoverstupidstuff.

I personally bash all denominations and cults. Long term members on these forums can confirm that. I myself and others are more interested in the truth than what religious system to follow. This discussion is about the Trinity which I believe to be a Babylonian doctrine.

I also believe that denominations and cults are the result of men following after other men. e.g., “Are you a follower of Paul, Apollos, Christ?”, “are you a follower of Russell, JWs, Athanasius (Catholics), Martin Luther, etc”. Are we not mere men when we say and argue such things?

Rather we should follow Christ who leads us to God.

If we are one in Christ then we have true unity.
Any other unity is what the world gives and is only skin deep.

We can congregate anywhere at anytime. It is not every Sunday and in a particular hall. The wind doesn't blow in the same direction every Sunday, so if we are led by the Spirit, then our congregations are not predictable, but we are like the wind as it is written.

If we have eyes to see, then we will see our brothers and sisters in Christ. We will see beyond the physical constraints imposed by men and the god of this age.

February 8, 2007 at 12:18 am#39453

Participant

To quitarguingoverstupidstuff.

Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 08 2007,05:59)

You said….
“Some people here actually love seeking the truth together, but we have to put up with all kinds of weird people coming here sometimes”.

Your funny.

Nobody wants the real truth here, you guys attack anyone who even remotely questions your flimsy beliefs.

You have judged incorrectly.

We judge the works of men for what they are.
A true teaching or message given with scriptural basis is gladly received. We rightly judge all those who come here for the sole purpose of promoting (or spamming) their denomination, organisation, party pills, and any other product of man.

If you came here with teachings that were scripturally based, then you would have been received.

But you came here like many do and basically said JWs are the way and the rest are crap compared to them. We also frown upon those who come here and say Catholics are the way, or Mormons are the way.
In the end we have all these so-called Christians saying their Church is the way and we have stepped back from such nonsense and prefer that people bring teachings that are from scripture and not denominational promotion.

Now this discussion is about the Trinity. If you have anything to say on that subject then go ahead.

Just keep denominational promotion to the advertising section of newspapers etc. These forums are not for free advertising of any product.

February 8, 2007 at 12:33 am#39455

Participant

Hi,
Jesus showed the true unity that he enjoyed with the Father.
Funny thing but he never mentioned true unity with the so called third member of God.
Perhaps he knew the Spirit of God was actually the Spirit of God?

No TRI-UNITY
but he did say
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me..”

February 8, 2007 at 2:00 am#39460

david

Participant

Quote

Now this discussion is about the Trinity. If you have anything to say on that subject then go ahead.

Good point. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones who are preaching the good news of the kingdom in all the nations (mat 24:14) and various other things. But this thread is about the trinity. There are very very few religious groups on the planet who do not abide to the trinity teaching, less then a handful, and they are small groups.
Since we're on the trinity thread, we can say this: Jehovah's Witnesses truthfully understand that the trinity belief is false. Unlike the great disunity on this site, over various beliefs about the trinity and different forms of trinity belief, ask any Jehovah's Witness in any country or any language and you will get the same answer. It's the same answer, the truth about the false trinity belief.

I had quoted that quote from qa where he speaks about JW's being the only united group that are no part of the world and that love one another and that are carrying out the work Jesus fortold.
T8, responded by saying that that thinking was “carnal.”

But, Jesus did fortell this:
“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (mt 24:14)

Now, you may say that the fact that JW's are the only ones who are carrying out a worldwide organized preaching work doesn't prove they are the ones who are fulfulling this prophecy. Yet, the question remains, if they aren't, who is?
The disunited argumentational un-agreeing people of this site, or the disunited unorganized people who are true Christians in the world, even though they aren't united in belief, or purpose?

I don't think that question or that thinking is carnal at all. Jesus told us what would be happening in the conclusion of this system of things. One of those things that would be happening was that global worldwide preaching of the kingdom. That is happening. The fact that JW's are the only ones who are doing it on that level does have meaning. I mean, if you could point to 20 other groups that are doing anywhere near what JW's are doing, your argument might have some merit. But that is not the case at all.

Anyway, back to the trinity. I think the question I asked Isaiah 1:18 has great merit.

Is 1:18 said that Jesus may have been acting vague so that he could stay alive long enough to carry out his purpose. But it hardly seems like Jesus to water down the truth for any purpose.

I mean, did Jesus tell anyone that he was God Almighty? Did he ever try to convey that idea to anyone, his disciples? Anyone? Or was he maybe vague to everyone? If find this 'Jesus being vague' thought week.

JOHN 10:34-36
“Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “YOU are gods”’? If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?”

I find this scripture interesting in that most often we are discussing what Jesus said and whether or not he was God Almighty. This scripture discusses the actions of some based on what Jesus said.

Going back one second, t8 has repeatedly, quite often stated similar remarks to this:

Quote

Beware of them. They not only want your money, but they will gladly take your soul and your family too.

T8, I know that some church must have taken money from your family, because you rightfully hate this, and tithing and such things. And for some unkown reason, you often list this in when you are trying to denounce JW's. But the two are not connected in any way at all. We have boxes in our halls that anyone at any time can donate money to, to help with the upkeep of the building or the international work, etc, but there is no pressure to contribute. Your name is never read or no one will ever watch you contribute or you will never ever be asked personally to give any money or anything at all like that. At the end of the month, the accounts report is read in the announcments portion of the Service Meeting, and the amount donated is read, with the expenses, but of course, no mention is ever made of who donated what or anything like that. Your righteous indignation for those who solicit funds from the congregation is felt by me too. The Catholic church beged my dying grandma for money and she gave it. JW's are completely different in this respect. So, even though I've told you this about 4 times before, (I realize you rightly find issue with it) it doesn't apply to JW's. Please stop trying to connect JW's with this idea.

February 8, 2007 at 6:42 am#39505

Participant

Quote (david @ Feb. 08 2007,21:00)

To dave.

First off the bat dave, I guess deep down we all know the reason you are here, and that is to promote the JWs. This post proves what your intentions are and have been all along.

Of course you are even able to do this in appropriate discussions, perhaps as you say, even this one. But I still have the right to frown on your works of division and promotion of the confusion where men yell “I am the way”, “I am the way”, “no come this way”.

I hope that I am saying things like “what is the truth”, “what is scripture saying”, and “be united in Christ, regardless of denomination, race, sex, age, and status”. Please note that I am neither saying “let all denominations unite” or “this denomination is the right one”.

As for JWs preaching the Good News, well their version of good news means joining the JWs and perhaps even parting with 10% of your income. But the fruit of the good news is that people are found in Christ who is the image of God and head of the true Church.

As for the disunity in this website, well of course you will find disunity, for what unity does truth have with lies? These forums are open to all and of course not all who come here are filled with God's Spirit. Also the disunity you speak of includes yourself as you are an equal member here too and I would like to add that your gospel rather than creating unity in truth, is exclusively JW and therefore you are guilty of not recognizing the true Body of Christ from among them and also promoting the endless division of denominations and cults that are designed to confuse and divide God's people.

The works done in the name of JWs, Mormons, Catholics, and other man-made organisations will all end up in the big celestial rubbish tip my friend.

It's a pity that you are not open to being led by God's Spirit and seeing the truth, that the Body of Christ is the Church and the Church is led by Christ Jesus and that this has been the case for 2000 or so years.

Serving an organisation that started up recently in the Church age is a rip off compared to serving Christ who's Church, God works through.

Now the point of this discussion is the Trinity Doctrine and those who seek truth would surely prefer that scriptures are given for or against, rather than using it as a springboard to sell a denomination, cult, cheap software, party pills, and the like.

February 8, 2007 at 8:31 pm#39521

Participant

Hi,
Since there is no trinity in the bible to discuss then this intellectual diversion does go on. The bible is the foundation for what we believe and there is nothing about any sort of trinity in there so discussion must be based on unwise human speculation.

February 8, 2007 at 8:42 pm#39522

Participant

understanding of three is needed to bear witness on earth of an everlasting gospal
God sent his son to earth that we may know of him before and his election
only to beleive a good report of the three that bear witness
three in heaven and three on earth

1Jo 5:6 ¶ This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1Jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

February 8, 2007 at 8:53 pm#39523

Participant

Hi charity,
1Jn 5.7 was added by a monk desperate to provide scriptural support for a trinity. It is not found in manuscripts older than 500 years ago. God is in heaven and works through His Spirit within creation.

February 8, 2007 at 9:22 pm#39526

Participant

Quote (music4two @ Feb. 07 2007,16:42)

Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 07 2007,11:17)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 07 2007,08:36)

Hi qa,
Why are you so angry?
Are you this angry with everyone?
My faith is what the bible teaches so read the bible.
I have written 12,000 plus posts here so it is not too hard to find what I believe

I'm angry because you guys twist the scriptures and bash witnesses.

You guys make comment about early congregations, but then say you don't need them anymore. Where do you get these ideas?

you guys put your own thinking and opinions above gods.
(Prov 8:13)

Hi m42,
Only greeks come here to be entertained by scripture.
If you do not wish to drink from the waters of life then please do not stand in it and muddy it for others.

February 8, 2007 at 9:55 pm#39532

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2007,20:53)

This info is two 2000 yrs old

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
This is the elected and chosen one SENT who by the Holy Ghost WAS implanted in a virgin on earth which is the word of God from the beginning that he shall create an Image of him and the Son

1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

This is the evidence on earth bearing record THAT THE ELECTED son SENT FROM HEAVEN was put to death because they did not know or believe who he was and bear no record to whom God had sent forth as the first born Son on earth

Jhn 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Christ record of his before election to his prepared body as an sacrifice where his blood is shed on earth
Jhn 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again* I leave the world, and
Father.

February 8, 2007 at 10:05 pm#39533

Participant

Hi charity,
The Spirit of God, as usual the means of God's work on earth, conceived the body of the sent Christ in Mary.

February 8, 2007 at 10:57 pm#39534

Participant

Jhn 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again* I leave the world, and
Father.

men Have been playing in between the three that bear witness on earth and the three that bear witness in heaven

To form a vain trinity to rise with him

A father was elected and chosen his seed planted him a Man child in Mary

A seed preserved from every Father to attend a resurrection to life in judgment days

The fist resurrection

Such unbelieving Men on earth that chose to connect David by blood line, and wish not ecept he is the resurrection of Life
Preformed by the Holy Ghost

To form a trinity to rise with him without not knowing the man from the east that God shall rise

Isa 41:1 ¶ Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew [their] strength: let them come near; then let them speak: let us come near together to judgment.
Isa 41:2 Who raised up the righteous [man] from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made [him] rule over kings? he gave [them] as the dust to his sword, [and] as driven stubble to his bow.
Isa 41:3 He pursued them, [and] passed safely; [even] by the way [that] he had not gone with his feet.
Isa 41:4 Who hath wrought and done [it], calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I [am] he.

February 8, 2007 at 11:14 pm#39535

quitarguingoverstupidstuff

Participant

Hi charity,
Father eternal and chosen by none greater.
God by His Spirit.

February 8, 2007 at 11:29 pm#39536

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 08 2007,06:42)

Quote (david @ Feb. 08 2007,21:00)

To dave.

First off the bat dave, I guess deep down we all know the reason you are here, and that is to promote the JWs. This post proves what your intentions are and have been all along.

The works done in the name of JWs, Mormons, Catholics, and other man-made organisations will all end up in the big celestial rubbish tip my friend.

Serving an organisation that started up recently in the Church age is a rip off compared to serving Christ who's Church, God works through.

First off I want to apologize to everyone for my raving madness in my previous messages. I made an ass of myself, and I am very sorry.

Second.

Go to ” Restored Worldwide Church of God” to learn about every truth that the bible teaches. This information is entirely free.

And they don't use Jehovah's name, just god, lord, GOD, or LORD……………. so that should make everyone happy.

The BIBLE agrees (notice how I didn't say I agree?) with about everything this cult teaches except a few “off-base” extremest views, as well as a quote from the author of the site that says to become a member, your have to pass “his” qualifications, as well as then being required to “Tithe” if you become a member.

It's been many years sense I've read the bible, but I believe Jesus said to “give freely”, not “this is what you have to give” (but maybe I'm a bit rusty…who knows?)

Either way, all you “free minded” independent thinkers might be able to learn a few things, and you never have to make a commitment…….so this information is right up your ally.

All I care about is the “truth” being spread by what ever means possible.

The fact that the guy that built this site is a puppet of Herbert W. Armstrong, doesn't change the fact that most of the information is factually backed by the Bible (of course there's some personal opinions thrown in here and there, but the bulk of the “meat” is still factual)

You all say you want to know for a fact what the Bible teaches, well…..here's your chance to find out for free and with no “label” being branded on you, no commitment required and especially without that nasty name “Jehovah” showing up everywhere!

No pressure………

You either want biblical truth, or you don't…..search and you will find it………………. sooner or later.

February 8, 2007 at 11:33 pm#39537