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Quote David,
You didn't study scripture and arrive at the very same conclusions as the watchtower, then join them. You joined and then became indoctrinated. So your unity in belief is coerced and false. You just tow the party line. Try independant thought David.This began with you saying that if two people agree, one of them is not thinking.
Isaiah. I completely agree with you….
What do you think I meant when I said I studied with them? I think you have a warped idea of what that means. No one says: “I'm going to 'join' JW's and then figure out what they believe.”
The truth of the matter, bringing us back to that original question that I said you'd ignore or sidetrack, and which you've proven true, is that there is one group who is fullfilling the scripture at Mat 24:14.
Even if that group is not JW's, there is a group of organized people out there who have to be doing this, according to scripture. If they don't agree, then they are spreading different messages to all the nations. I think, that perhaps, just perhaps, God's holy spirit might help out with that great work, and that this help might be what keeps them united and preaching the same message in hundreds of different languages and hundreds of different lands.david
Quote (david @ Feb. 07 2007,09:01) Quote point proven. I was also studying with the Catholic church at the time.
Point unproven.
Hi David,
Your belief that the pre-incarnate Yeshua was Michael the Archangel, was that a conclusion that you arrived at yourself? or were you taught it?PS I knew you had a soft spot in you heart for me…
Quote The pharisees would not have run the risk of executing someone without very solid grounds. Had they stoned someone on a fabricated, trumped up charge they would have been in the gun themselves. They were smart men. They knew the consequences would be severe…. I'd like to challenge most everything you've said here. I'll do some research and find some scriptures. But even if the above was true, how does that in any way answer my question which is:
If Jesus told anyone or taught to anyone that he was God Almighty why did they not accuse him of this?
I'm going to bed, I'll leave our ironically-misnomered friend with this salient advice that Paul gave the church at Ephesus:
Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.
Quote (david @ Feb. 07 2007,09:10) If Jesus told anyone or taught to anyone that he was God Almighty why did they not accuse him of this?
Maybe He was deliberately vague because He did not want to be killed before the appointed time…Just a thought.
Quote Hi David,
Your belief that the pre-incarnate Yeshua was Michael the Archangel, was that a conclusion that you arrived at yourself? or were you taught it?Did you read the Bible and come up with the trinity concept yourself or did you hear the word trinity and the concept while you were reading the Bible?
Did you arrive at that concept yourself? Or were you taught it?Right now, I'm trying to “teach” you something, but you're not getting it. Of course, the beliefs of JW's were made known to me, by JW's.
Just like the beliefs of Isaiah 1:18 are being made known to me, even at this very moment.
Neither you, nor JW's ever sat down with me and said: “This is what I (we) believe, here's the list. So you'd better believe it.”Quote (Is 1:18 @ Feb. 07 2007,09:17) Quote (david @ Feb. 07 2007,09:10) If Jesus told anyone or taught to anyone that he was God Almighty why did they not accuse him of this?
Maybe He was deliberately vague because He did not want to be killed before the appointed time…Just a thought.
Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with *thine own self *with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Maybewe could look at the glorfy and glorfy again
Hi Charity,
NASB
“”Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. “
The Word was with God in glory in the beginning.ok
Psa 50:15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.
Well can we all can gloify???
Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Jhn 13:32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.
Isa 24:15 Wherefore glorify ye the LORD in the fires, [even] the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea.
Psa 86:9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
Now its our turn to be glorfied
Isa 60:7 All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.Jer 30:19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Feb. 08 2007,04:17) Quote (david @ Feb. 07 2007,09:10) If Jesus told anyone or taught to anyone that he was God Almighty why did they not accuse him of this?
Maybe He was deliberately vague because He did not want to be killed before the appointed time…Just a thought.
Vague enough to not have that charge against him when accusing him. In fact so vague it should make you wonder if he claimed to be God at all.The only reason people believe that he is God is not because they arrive at that conclusion from reading scripture, rather people are told what to believe first. They take a scripture here and there to make it look sound.
Once you accept the belief, then it is hard to change after a while because men tend to become hard and not flexible enough to change. After listening to men for so long it is hard to hear God's voice.
But his voice cannot be disguised. We can only ignore or accept what he is saying to us.
Quote (david @ Feb. 07 2007,08:51) Quote You didn't study scripture and arrive at the very same conclusions as the watchtower, then join them. You joined and then became indoctrinated. So your unity in belief is coerced and false. You just tow the party line. Try independant thought David.
I most absolutely certainly didn't “join them” “and then [become] indoctrinated.” So everything you say that follows is based on a false assumption.
I studied with them over years and years. I did not have to become a Witness. I was not born into a Witness family or anything like that. My dad and much of my family were and still are opposed to JW's.I now undertand why you find it so hard to believe that two people can agree.
Remember when Jesus said: You will know the truth….
Some, do know the truth. Those people do in fact agree. They don't disagree.
These men's “independent thoughts” are exactly what Satan told Eve to do…….Don't listen to their bullcrap.Independent thinking is why Satan came to be in the first place. He felt his thinking was more important than gods.
My suggestion is to believe the Bible in it's entirety, or don't bother. These jerkoffs focus on just enough scriptures to try and prove their “independent thinking”, and push it onto others. Make no mistake about it, god expects you to know how to think for yourself, but only with a bible trained conscious. These guys don't follow the “entire” bible, they pick and choose, just like any “independent thinker” would. Just like Satan tried to twist the scriptures when trying to trick Jesus.
There is only one group on earth that agree and are completely united in their beliefs (1 Corinth 1:10)
I wouldn't advise spending much time on these sites if you are not fully prepared to beat these pons of Satan at their own game.
After over 10 years of fighting against the “truth” I've finally decided to get back with the happiest people on earth. (something I haven't been in many years)
Seeing apostate material and how much these jerks twist information is what got me pissed off enough to get back on track, but this is not usually what happens when people start looking into their bullshit, so you'd probably be best to leave these blog sites alone. I'm going to be canceling soon if I can't get some of these “know it alls” to start proving themselves. (and I'm sure they won't)
Not to mention, It's a real waste of time (1 Tim 6:4)
I've been on this stupid computer for hours, and all I got to do was bicker with a couple of ignorant morons. What a waste of time!!I now understand why the witnesses keep going door to door….they're able to meet more people and share truth faster, than wasting time on stupid blog sites.
Anyway….I can tell already that most people on these sites have one purpose…..to keep others as ignorant as they are.
There's so much unchristian propaganda on the web, that anyone searching for truth is going to be bombarded by all sorts of “Differences of opinions”, you've already used your god given right to use “Intelligent reasoning” to figure out that no group on earth is as united as the Jehovah's Witnesses (regardless of any past human errors that have already been dealt with and corrected)
My father is an apostate, and hates the witnesses (because he knows they're right and it pisses him off, I was the same way for many years), so I understand what it's like to deal with opposition.
Use common sense, and don't pay much attention to anyone that can't back up what they believe, and why they believe it.
Get away from speaking with morons like these guys…It's a waste of time!
Don't try and throw perils in front of these swine….they've got nothing to lose wasting their time on here (2 Tim 2:14-19)(Heb 10:24-25)………..but you do!!!!
If you're studying, keep it up, but don't get baptized unless you're serious……because unlike all other religious beliefs on earth……….making a dedication to the “true” god Jehovah is not something to be taken lightly.
Quote (david @ Feb. 08 2007,03:13) I'd like you to name even one WORLDWIDE congregational based group on the (present) earth today (right now) that is actually united in their beliefs, speak in agreement regarding the bibles teachings (1 Corinthians 1:10), are no part of this world (John 17:16), don't fight in this worlds wars (John 18:36) and are spreading their non-Babylonian based teachings in all the inhabited earth (Matthew 24:14) ……..
Please!!!!!…….Name me just one…….. I NEED TO KNOW!!!!
This kind of thinking is carnal.Even evil can be united in belief and rebel against the world.
I know that racist skinheads in Germany are pretty united in their beliefs and the rest of the world disagrees with them strongly.As far as non-bablylonian teaching goes that may be true, but false prophecy and false teachings can disagree with babylon religion, but still be deceptive. Not all lies are called babylonian.
Satan can appear as an angel of light. But the true light is what we should be looking at. If we judge ourselves by the standards of others, we may look clean, but in truth we are all unclean. So making your organisation look good by pointing out the fault of others is silly. It's like looking at lovely white sheep on a sunny day and then coming back when it shows and seeing how unclean they really are.
david, if you think for 1 minute that anybody here is going to take your belief serious regarding the JWs being the only true organisation of God's people, then you better convert them before they fall for any of the other cults and denominations on offer. Because if they fall for the JWs message then they are vulnerable and could fall for any of the other gospels too.
As for anyone searching the truth, scripture doesn't say that we need to join any denomination or religious organisation, especially one that started recently. But scripture is clear that we be part of the Church which is the Body of Christ. The Church is approximately 2000 years old. Don't fall for all those charlatans who have started up groups after men since Jesus said “upon this rock I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH”.
Beware of them. They not only want your money, but they will gladly take your soul and your family too.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Feb. 08 2007,01:01) …and the Word was God.
…and the Word was YHWH?No.
Ye are gods and angels are gods. They are not YHWH either.
To quitarguingoverstupidstuff.
Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 08 2007,01:11) If you can tell me even one it would be great, because I've been looking for over 10 years, and have yet to find one other religious system that actually follows true biblical teachings, and has at least “tried” to separate themselves from Babylonian false teachings.
We shouldn't be looking for a religious system. Is that not the problem?We should be looking to the messiah. All who look to him are united in him. Uniting ourselves in a religious system of some kind is vanity and is not the true unity that can be found in the son who brings us to God.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Feb. 07 2007,09:14) I'm going to bed, I'll leave our ironically-misnomered friend with this salient advice that Paul gave the church at Ephesus: Ephesians 4:29
Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear.
I'm guessing this is directed towards me.I don't care…….
Maybe when I start caring I'll clean up my act.
Right now at this point in my life I'm only interested in “Truth” whether that be related to False Religion, Politics, or Business….the 3 most imperfect human creations to come out of Babylon the Great.
I'm having a great time learning stuff that probably none of you will ever learn, because you spend all your time bickering over unimportant issues.
Your right….I need to watch my mouth, and quit drinking so much, and control my anger.
I need to learn how to control myself. (this is why I couldn't make it as a Witness)
Regardless, You little punks with your “wishy washy” ways can revel in your “Independent Thinking”….I'm sure the fact that the God of the bible never condoned it, must be an oversight on Gods part, because you guys have definitely got it all figured out.
I was hoping to see some intelligence come out of your all seeing “independent” minds…..but all I see is a bunch of poo.
(Their…..I'm starting to work on my potty mouth….happy?)
Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 08 2007,04:57) There's so much unchristian propaganda on the web, that anyone searching for truth is going to be bombarded by all sorts of “Differences of opinions”, you've already used your god given right to use “Intelligent reasoning” to figure out that no group on earth is as united as the Jehovah's Witnesses (regardless of any past human errors that have already been dealt with and corrected)
First of we are all in the world and the world is full of deception.
Secondly, scripture doesn't instruct us to join a cult, denomination, or organisation.We are instructed to listen and follow the messiah of God, Yashua/Jesus.
He will unite us with God and one another. Any other way is a vain attempt.
We who belong to Christ are united in spirit. We are not united by building or denomination.
If you look for a religious institution for your answers, then a religious institution is what you will get.
Your strong words fail to convert me to any denomination. How can I when I my eyes have already seen through them. I know what they are.
Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 08 2007,05:19) I'm guessing this is directed towards me. I don't care…….
Maybe when I start caring I'll clean up my act.
Right now at this point in my life I'm only interested in “Truth” whether that be related to False Religion, Politics, or Business….the 3 most imperfect human creations to come out of Babylon the Great.
I'm having a great time learning stuff that probably none of you will ever learn, because you spend all your time bickering over unimportant issues.
Your right….I need to watch my mouth, and quit drinking so much, and control my anger.
I need to learn how to control myself. (this is why I couldn't make it as a Witness)
Regardless, You little punks with your “wishy washy” ways can revel in your “Independent Thinking”….I'm sure the fact that the God of the bible never condoned it, must be an oversight on Gods part, because you guys have definitely got it all figured out.
I was hoping to see some intelligence come out of your all seeing “independent” minds…..but all I see is a bunch of poo.
(Their…..I'm starting to work on my potty mouth….happy?)
You call yourself quitarguingoverstupidstuff and that is what you appear to be doing. So the name was aptly chosen.Some people here actually love seeking the truth together, but we have to put up with all kinds of weird people coming here sometimes.
Regardless of that, I have learned heaps and I thank YHWH for some of the people here.
Of course it is understandable that the enemy would try and disrupt things as much as possible. But the enemy cannot overcome light with darkness.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 07 2007,10:15) To quitarguingoverstupidstuff. Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 08 2007,01:11) If you can tell me even one it would be great, because I've been looking for over 10 years, and have yet to find one other religious system that actually follows true biblical teachings, and has at least “tried” to separate themselves from Babylonian false teachings.
We shouldn't be looking for a religious system. Is that not the problem?We should be looking to the messiah. All who look to him are united in him. Uniting ourselves in a religious system of some kind is vanity and is not the true unity that can be found in the son who brings us to God.
The early Cristian Congregations were put in the bible as an example for us to follow you confused little “Jesus Freak” puppet.They were a group of “multiple” Congregations that were all expected to speak in agreement with each other and strive to stay united. (as an example for modern Christians)
Why would their be so much biblical material provided in the bible regarding these congregations (after Jesus died mind you), if all we really had to do was….”Look to the Messiah” as you put it?
Apparently you only believe in the scriptures regarding Jesus life, and everything that happened after it was just something put in the Bible to make it look bigger. Must have been put in there by accident….huh?
Do you actually believe the stuff that comes out of your mouth?
If a person says that they are a Christian……they either believe in ALL of the bible….or they don't believe in the Bible…..
CASE CLOSED!!!
Why can't you see past your own ignorance?
Why am I wasting my time even trying to talk to you? You'll simply avoid my questions anyway.
I need to get away from this site, It's making my blood pressure high……I don't mix well with ignorant people.
I'm out of here!
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 07 2007,10:27) Quote (quitarguingoverstupidstuff @ Feb. 08 2007,05:19) I'm guessing this is directed towards me. I don't care…….
Maybe when I start caring I'll clean up my act.
Right now at this point in my life I'm only interested in “Truth” whether that be related to False Religion, Politics, or Business….the 3 most imperfect human creations to come out of Babylon the Great.
I'm having a great time learning stuff that probably none of you will ever learn, because you spend all your time bickering over unimportant issues.
Your right….I need to watch my mouth, and quit drinking so much, and control my anger.
I need to learn how to control myself. (this is why I couldn't make it as a Witness)
Regardless, You little punks with your “wishy washy” ways can revel in your “Independent Thinking”….I'm sure the fact that the God of the bible never condoned it, must be an oversight on Gods part, because you guys have definitely got it all figured out.
I was hoping to see some intelligence come out of your all seeing “independent” minds…..but all I see is a bunch of poo.
(Their…..I'm starting to work on my potty mouth….happy?)
You call yourself quitarguingoverstupidstuff and that is what you appear to be doing. So the name was aptly chosen.Some people here actually love seeking the truth together, but we have to put up with all kinds of weird people coming here sometimes.
Regardless of that, I have learned heaps and I thank YHWH for some of the people here.
Of course it is understandable that the enemy would try and disrupt things as much as possible. But the enemy cannot overcome light with darkness.
You said….
“Some people here actually love seeking the truth together, but we have to put up with all kinds of weird people coming here sometimes”.Your funny.
Nobody wants the real truth here, you guys attack anyone who even remotely questions your flimsy beliefs.
I've had enough of the idle chat that goes on in this site.
Keep trading “philosophy” while “reality” happens all around you.
Do a google search on “who controls the world” , and you'll see why I have no more time in my life to “play” around with idle chat.
I'm getting my life back on track, and I now know I'll never find any “real” answers on sites like these….I should know better.
I do apologize for offending anyone, but not once will anyone apologize for the way you guys bad mouth Jehovah's Witnesses, and their is normally never going to be any Witness in these blog areas, because they know it's futile, because even if one did show up, they'd be all kind and nice as you guys tore into them like wolves, with all your mindless nonfactual comments.
I'm not a witness anymore, but I don't appreciate the way you liars attack the witnesses. They're the most peaceful, united god fearing group in the entire world, and you guys are constantly cutting them down. I feel bad for you, all you guys will trade your “independent thoughts”, and never actually gain advanced knowledge. It's a shame.
I promise If I ever make any new comments on this site, that I'll try and be more courteous than in my past messages, but this is a biased site…..and I know it's not based in wanting to spread “truth”…….just “independent” opinions….
Have a good one.
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