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Quote Jn 3
” 31He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.NH
Jesus is making a big distinction between himself who is from heaven and the earthly!
This didnt happen at the Jordan. His greatness is from his pre-existance with his Father. He was/is the Word/God made flesh and dwelt among us.
Jesus the Word was the Word from his natural birth not the Jordan.
He is the Lord from heaven!
The Word was/is still the Word that was tabernacled among us!
I Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.There is no scripture that Jesus was born again at the Jordan!
Why go outside of scripture?
Quote Hi W,
The Word was with God and made flesh. He was above all under God, but made for a time like to men and less than the angels, till raised and taken up and glorified. What are you trying to say?NH
Why do you only quote part of the scripture?
Does it hurt to say the whole thing?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 14 2007,22:20) Quote Jn 3
” 31He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.NH
Jesus is making a big distinction between himself who is from heaven and the earthly!
This didnt happen at the Jordan. His greatness is from his pre-existance with his Father. He was/is the Word/God made flesh and dwelt among us.
Jesus the Word was the Word from his natural birth not the Jordan.
He is the Lord from heaven!
The Word was/is still the Word that was tabernacled among us!
I Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.There is no scripture that Jesus was born again at the Jordan!
Why go outside of scripture?
Hi W,
The problem is that Jesus is only said to be filled with the Spirit after the baptism by the Spirit in the Jordan [Lk 4.1]and he began the works of power which derive from the Spirit of God within him at that time.
But if you believe in the trinity you must say God came in flesh I suppose.Hi W,
The Word was with God and made flesh. He was above all under God, but made for a time like to men and less than the angels, till raised and taken up and glorified. What are you trying to say?Conclusive Evidence that the The Holy Spirit is JEHOVAH (God)
Compare
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD(JEHOVAH) I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD (JEHOVAH): for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH) : for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.With
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.Rev 22:9 worship God.
Compare
Psa 95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
Psa 95:8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Psa 95:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Psa 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.With
Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)Compare
Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Isa 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.With
Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.2Sa 23:1 Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,
2Sa 23:2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.2Sa 23:3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted,
Conclusive Evidence that the The Holy Spirit is JEHOVAH (God)
Compare
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD(JEHOVAH) I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD (JEHOVAH): for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH) : for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.With
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.Rev 22:9 worship God.
Compare
Psa 95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
Psa 95:8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Psa 95:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Psa 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.With
Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)Compare
Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Isa 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.With
Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.2Sa 23:1 Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,
2Sa 23:2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.2Sa 23:3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted,
NH
Quote Hi charity,
Christ is the root of David too.
Before Abraham and David he is, with God.Jesus / Jehovah. Seed of David
Joh 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.Hi Cb,
And indeed our Lord will reign on earth in unity with God.
God will return in the Son to stand on earth and the kingdom of God will be seen.
Zech 14
“1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. “
Psalm 2
1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
Hi Cb,
You lace all your posts with propounded condemnation for others and yet expect to find followers for your bizarre brand of false doctrine. Why?Quote Hi W,
The Word was with God and made flesh. He was above all under God, but made for a time like to men and less than the angels, till raised and taken up and glorified. What are you trying to say?
NHThe word was with God and was God and tabernacled among us.
Jesus the Word did not empty himself of his nature/deity.
This is ontologically impossible, he would not still be the Word manifest in the flesh!
Hi W,
Ontology is not what guides limits us in our understanding of God. That is an artificial human measure.
He was made less than the angels and that seems to say he was not God in flesh but one of us. That makes sense because he was taken from us to be the sacrificial lamb, the first fruits and firstborn. We are not naturally godly. Of course it also removes any confusion as to where his supernatural powers came from. They were not his own of course but were those of God in him as he said. He gave all the glory for any such works he did to the Father as he was a submitted vessel.Quote Hi W,
Ontology is not what guides limits us in our understanding of God. That is an artificial human measure.
He was made less than the angels and that seems to say he was not God in flesh but one of us. That makes sense because he was taken from us to be the sacrificial lamb, the first fruits and firstborn. We are not naturally godly. Of course it also removes any confusion as to where his supernatural powers came from. They were not his own of course but were those of God in him as he said. He gave all the glory for any such works he did to the Father as he was a submitted vessel.NH
Since you dont like the word ontology, let me say it another way!
The word was with God and was God and tabernacled among us.
Jesus the Word did not empty himself of his nature/deity.
This is naturally impossible, he would not still be the Word manifest in the flesh!
Hi W,
To be the Word is a statement about origins not necessarily present nature and abilities. He is always the Word. He emptied himself and partook of flesh to be just like us and none of us are born with divine abilities.people people listen and learn
jonn chapter 1 verse 1 says in the beginning was the word and the word was God and you all know the rest …………..the word here is not in referance to JesusChrist my good friends but it is in referance to the Holy Spirit. o.k i know i lost 99.99%of you all by now but the {word } is the Holy Spirit John is talking about …….hey this is 1st grade stuff boys its time to gradute. you all or should i say most of you are brain washeddddddddddddddddddddddddddHi C,
If the Holy Spirit was with God, then God would be with Himself. Mind you those who believe God is a trinity say that anyway. No I disagree. God begat a Son as an image who was with Him.Quote Hi C,
If the Holy Spirit was with God, then God would be with Himself. Mind you those who believe God is a trinity say that anyway. No I disagree. God begat a Son as an image who was with Him.NH
Funny you should say this.
Is the Holy Spirit God?
If you answer is no.
Then you are the one that says God would be with himself!
Quote (chicano4571 @ Jan. 16 2007,02:42) people people listen and learn jonn chapter 1 verse 1 says in the beginning was the word and the word was God and you all know the rest …………..the word here is not in referance to JesusChrist my good friends but it is in referance to the Holy Spirit. o.k i know i lost 99.99%of you all by now but the {word } is the Holy Spirit John is talking about …….hey this is 1st grade stuff boys its time to gradute. you all or should i say most of you are brain washedddddddddddddddddddddddddd
wrongNH
Quote Hi W,
To be the Word is a statement about origins not necessarily present nature and abilities.That's not what my Bible says.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
the Word was God, the Word was God, the Word was God, the Word was God, the Word was God, the Word was God, the Word was God, the Word was God, the Word was God, the Word was God,
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
Quote Hi W,
To be the Word is a statement about origins not necessarily present nature and abilities. He is always the Word. He emptied himself and partook of flesh to be just like us and none of us are born with divine abilities.NH
Is there a scripture for this?
Its not wise to go outside of scripture!
Though I have not posted in a while, I still read the posts from time to time. I am astounded at the dishonesty among those on this board that claim Christianity. Even though the term “word” Logos (Gr) has been explained time and again there are those that refuse the truth.
Well over 200 times the term Logos is used in the New Testament and yet in a few scriptures in John and a couple in Revelation, there are those that come up with a definition of the term different then all the rest of scripture. How honest is that?
Many on this board have proven that they are not interested in Bible truth, but rather are only interested in proving their preconcieved ideas of doctrine. Their scholarship is a Joke!Joke 1 – They start study already having a preconcieved idea of the findings and look for proof of their concepts rather then the truth.
Joke 2 – They read an English translation of the verses in question and see supposed support for their doctrine and stop right there. They do not go farther because they are not interested in truth, but only doctrinal proof.
Joke 3 – When they find supposed proof in a few scriptures they ignor the rest of scripture and concentrate only on those they can use.
Joke 4 – They ignor the fact that the writers of scripture were Hebrew and had a different mindset in the way they think and write. Instead they filter scripture through a western thinking frame of mind.
Joke 5 – They ignor clear deffinitions of words and instead choose made up meanings that support their doctrine.
Joke 6 – They see the term “Word” capitalised and assume this signifies it is Jesus. Not taking into account that the original Greek text was written in all capital letters and the punctuation in our English versions is a illusion.From the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
The commonest term in the Old Testament for “word” is dabhar (also “matter” “thing”); in the New Testament logos (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); but also frequently rhema. Rhema is a “word” in itself considered; logos is a spoken word, with reference generally to that which is in the speaker's mind.
In the Greek –
of speech
a.a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
b.what someone has said
1.a word
2.the sayings of God
3.decree, mandate or order
4.of the moral precepts given by God
5.Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
6.what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
c.discourse
1.the act of speaking, speech
2.the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
3.a kind or style of speaking
4.a continuous speaking discourse – instruction
d.doctrine, teaching
e.anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
f.matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
g.the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed
2.its use as respect to the MIND alone
a.reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
b.account, i.e. regard, consideration
c.account, i.e. reckoning, score
d.account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
e.relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation
1.reason would
f.reason, cause, ground
3.In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.
— Notice a clear switch in part 3 from the literal definition of Logos of a statement or plan to a person of the Godhead. Even the Trinitarian teachers have to be dishonest to accomodate their doctrine. They point out that “In John” it means the second person of the Trinity, discounting the rest of scriptural use of the word. They ignor the correct historical usage of the term because it sheds a different light then the made up meanings they prefer. —
For the last time – The name Jesus cannot honestly be substituted for the term Logos (word)
Is Jesus literally the Logos? No!
The Logos is the blueprint. Jesus is the building.
He is the fullfillment of God’s plan and purpose.
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