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Quote response – So are you then saying that sin is a product of the human body? Does temptation effect only our bodies? What about our human wills or souls? Do you believe that Jesus had a Human will, spirit and soul? Do you believe Jesus ws an empty physical body that housed the spirit of God?
If Jesus is in any way different then the rest of humanity then He cannot fullfill the position of High Priest since that position is a human calling and requires failability like all other men.
Hebrews 5EVERY HIGH PRIEST IS A MAN chosen to represent other people in their dealings with God. He presents their gifts to God and offers sacrifices for their sins. 2 And he is able to deal gently with ignorant and wayward people because HE HIMSELF IS SUBJECT TO THE SAME WEAKNESSES. 3 THAT IS WHY HE MUST OFFER SACRIFICES FOR HIS OWN SINS AS WELL AS THEIRS.
(“is a man” who represents other people. Here is a direct comparison with other humans)4 And no one can become a high priest simply because he wants such an honor. He must be called by God for this work, just as Aaron was. 5 That is why Christ did not honor himself by assuming he could become High Priest. No, he was chosen by God, who said to him,
(Jesus was a high preies not because He was a God but because He was a man apointed by God)“You are my Son.
Today I have become your Father.”
( Was God not his father previous to this?)6 And in another passage God said to him,
“You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”
(again compared to humanity)7 While Jesus was here on earth, he offered prayers and pleadings, with a loud cry and tears, to the one who could rescue him from death. And God heard his prayers because of his deep reverence for God. 8 Even though Jesus was God’s Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. 9 In this way, God qualified him as a perfect High Priest, and he became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey him. 10 And God designated him to be a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.
(He was qualified not because He was a God, but because of what He suffered.)I await your explanations of these things.
m42
Can you understand the difference between Soul and Spirit?
The bible says that only the Word of God can descern between soul and spirit.
In the natural joints and marrow is an unexplainable thing. Science cannot determine when marrow becomes bone or bone becomes marrow.
So it is with us and Jesus.
Jesus has a soul by union of his Eternal Spirit to the body that the Father gave him.
The soul supposedly the seat of emotions and will and intellect. There are no absolutes here.
We know this, Jesus pre-existed his natural birth being with the Father, and he grew in this body that had brain, he grew in wisdom and stature and in favour with God and man.
I believe that Jesus as he was growing up, little by little from a very early age Jesus knew who he was and where he had come from.
We know at 12 Jesus referred to God as his Father.
As far as temptation Jesus was a man also and he was hungry and he did feel pain and he was tempted in all points as we are.
It seems to me that what you are saying is that Jesus may have had evil thoughts, or anger.
Jesus said….
Jn 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.Jesus was perfect there was nothing in him to respond to satan. His temtations were attacks from without not from within.
We have the same Spirit that Jesus had to overcome the enemy!
Heb 10:
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;Tell you what since you think maybe Jesus was tempted by lust or imperfection in him like we have, show me an example in scripture.
For I dont believe that “temted in all points like as we are” is to mean that he was imperfect like us.
We have his Spirit in us, which overcomes the world!
1 Jn 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.This is what our new creation man is for!
Quote “You are my Son.
Today I have become your Father.”
( Was God not his father previous to this?)m42
It was prophesied of the coming of Jesus the messiah, the Son of God before he was born.
But he was not the Son of God, nor the Messiah untill he took on his body and was born.
Lk 2:11
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.Matt 18:23-25
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.WJ
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?Response
This verse does nothing to indicate a person of God called the Holy Spirit. The fact that we cannot understand everything about ho God’s spirit works does not indicate a seperate person. The word “wind” is pneuma, but that still does nothing to prove it is a second person of the trinity.You say –
We know in part. We can not begin to fully undertsand the nature of the Almighty God simply by taking a peek at his Glory found in 66 books of the Bible.Response
That is a curious statement considering that both of us are so very adamant about our concept of the nature of God.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 04 2007,18:34) Quote Response –
I have never said that the breath of God is not God. In fact as I remember I have stated that the breath of God is His very presence as seen and manifested in our natural realm.m42
Then how can he not have personality?
The difference is that you are making his personality as seen in His manifestation on earht a seperate second person of God. I do not!WJ,
Too much to deal with right now. You win my friend. you konw everything. You should get on TV and really spred this stuff around. Claim your victory. Throw your party.
Actually it is a shame you ae on this website, since you will have no real effect on anyone a all. All you are doing is debating philosophy and metal exercise.Since I got on here for intertainment and now it is becoming frustrating. I will leave you to your worthless venture.
Quote WJ,
Too much to deal with right now. You win my friend. you konw everything. You should get on TV and really spred this stuff around. Claim your victory. Throw your party.
Actually it is a shame you ae on this website, since you will have no real effect on anyone a all. All you are doing is debating philosophy and metal exercise.
Since I got on here for intertainment and now it is becoming frustrating. I will leave you to your worthless venture.M42
No my friend I dont know everything, but I am confident in what God has shown me as I hope you are too.
Any way Lord richly bless you. Hope you have a blessed life!
Nice chatting with you.
I will only say this in parting.
In all of my postings, you have completely mised my point. So bent are you on proving your doctrine and following the scripture that you miss the entire point of God’s creation and His heart toward man.
Like the pharasees you strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.
From a standpoint of reality, the trinity does not work. Oh, you can say it does and site multitudes of scripture from a mental perspective, but the fact still remains that the comcept does not follow reason. It does not function for the purposes of making us like Christ.
If you change Jesus in any way from pure and normal humanity, you then deny us the posibility of becoming like Him.
The Pharasees caught the woman in adultry. They had proof. they had the law which stated that she must be stoned. Jesus came along and and saw a different picture. His heart was to restore her and heal her. So Jesus broke the law? From the pharasees standpoint yes he did. From a scriptural standpoint yes he did!
From the standpoint of the heart of God no He did not. He looked at her and how she could be helped, not at what could be proved by mentally probing and disecting the law.
As a christian that wants to really be like Jesus (and not mentally project myself there) I have to ask myself how do I do it?
Jesus taught many ways in which to act and those are good, but that does nothing to change my character and heart to become like His. It’s not about following the rules and looking the part. It is about really being like him in character.
How does a man change his character to be like Jesus.
Step one would be to believe it is possible . Without that you are lost from the beginning. If one starts with a goal that is not possible the rest is just rhetoric.
I am a man. I cannot change the essence of who I am and become a God. I have a single human nature. That nature is completely human.
Now we come to Chriatianity. It teaches that Jesus is my example and I am to become like him.
Much of christianity teaches that Jesus (in some manner) is a God. He either is an empty shell that housed God, a God that became a man and yet remained God or dual natured both God and Man.. With this teaching can I become like him?
1. It is not possible for me to become an empty shell to house God
2. I am not a God that became a man and yet remaind a God.
3. I am not dual natured both God and man.Based on any of these three concepts it is impossible for me to become like him. The only way to justify this belief is to deny our commandment/ability to actually become like Christ.You can throw around scripture all night and still will not resolve this basic truth.
The world around us hears preachers yammer on about becoming like Christ and in the next breath proclaim him to be a God. And then we wonder why it is so hard to convince people that Christianity is not just another metaphisical myth?
We ask peopole to believe in an all pwerfull, all knowing, all loving, unchanging spirit being we call God. Five minutes latre we speak of Christ and tell them That He is a God that changed from God to man and yet remained God. Then we wonder why people do not take christianity seriously?
We tell people to read their bible and they read many places that the judeo christian concept of one God is written very plainly in the text. Then we tell them that one does not mean one it means three. And we wonder why they laugh.
We read translations made at least 1600 years after the originals and accept their words over the originals in the original languages. We do this of course because the translations words support some preconcieved doctrine we wish to maintain.
We read scriptures written by people of a completely different culture and deny or ignor the impact that culture has on the meaning of those scriptures.
While doing all of these things we develope teachings to guide us and those that are foolish enough to follow.For those who will not follow we conjure up a pseudo-caring and empathy. We make statements like it is so sad that you just can’t see it.
We tell them they just do not understand the spirtual nature of God. We tell them that their reasoning abilities are of a lower natural realm and by doing so insult them. And we wonder why they do not listen.And finally we get on web sites and debate non stop over details of doctrine and never look to see the reasonability of it. We never look to see if believing that doctrine really really enables us to become like christ.
We do not see the difference between believing something in our head and actually aquiring that truth or lie contained within. We think that because we can convince ourselves in our brain that something is right that it must be right. We never try to make the truth functional. We never put it in practice in our hearts to see if it really works. We never look at the reasonability of it, but pride ourselves in being able to prove it. We perform day after day on these forums and actually believe that we are accomplishing some ministry.Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Isaiah 6:3 says, “And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
” Did you catch that? That's one “holy” for each person of the Godhead!
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
All praise to God the Father… God the Son Jesus Christ… and God the Holy Spirit! ALL Three merit perfect praise. Holy, Holy, Holy! If there is only one God they would not have repeated the worshipful praise three times.
Holy! Holy! Holy!
seekingtruth
Quote Can any supporter of the trinity provide scripture(s) that shows the Son (or the Holy Spirit) being equal to the Father? Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.The Holy Spirit is God:
Most, even those who deny the personality of the Holy Spirit, will admit that He is God in some way.
.He is clearly referred to as God: Acts 5:3, 4.
b.Compare 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17 with 6:19 and also 2 Corinthians 6:16.
Compare 1 Corinthians 12:11 with 12:28.c.The Holy Spirit is Yahweh: Compare Jeremiah 31:33, 34 with Hebrews 10:15-17.
“ Psalm 95:7-11 with Hebrews 3:7-11.
“ Isaiah 6:9, 10 with Acts 28:25-28.
“ 2 Samuel 23:2 with 2 Samuel 23:3.d. The Holy Spirit is Eternal: Hebrews 9:14.
It does make sense to say that the Holy Spirit is just the spiritual presence of the Father or the Son or of both. At the baptism of Jesus the Three were manifested there. The Father spoke from heaven, Jesus was in the water being baptized, and the Holy Spirit came down upon Jesus like a dove. The Father and Jesus needed no spiritual presence of any third party.
Remember too the baptismal formula Jesus gave at Matthew 28:19 –
“baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
It is easy to see that there are Three Persons in the Heavenly Trio.
We have come out of Babylon, Cult Buster, so it is pointless trying to call us back into idols and false doctrines.
The LORD GOD is one God.
He is not a triune God as you promote.
Repent.
Quote Sounds like a person to me! Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:Of course it sounds like a person. Every use of personification sounds like a person. That's what personification is.
BUT THERE ARE MANY SCRIPTURES WHICH MAKE THE HOLY SPIRIT SOUND NOT LIKE A PERSON, AND SPEAK OF IT IN A WAY THAT DON'T ALLOW IT TO BE A PERSON.Since in the scripture you speak of it sounds like a person, that implies that:
a: It is a person
b: It's the use of personification.Since we have all those other scriptures that speak of it in a very impersonal way, it's clear that option B is the obvious right choice.
You can't just choose to look at all the examples of personification and close your eyes to the scriptures that speak of the holy spirit in a very impersonal way. This is not an honourable method of study.
david
Quote Isaiah 6:3 says, “And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. ” Did you catch that? That's one “holy” for each person of the Godhead!
CB,
This is pretty much the most ridiculous argument I've heard, and it is magnified by the fact that you have repeated it about 25 times.So, you claim that the fact that the expression: “holy holy holy” appears, that this really says: “God is three.”
SO WHAT OF THE OTHER 950 TIMES OR SO THAT IT ONLY SAYS: “HOLY” ONCE.
I GUESS IF THREE HOLIES PROVES A TRINTY, ONE HOLY PROVES YOU WRONG: 950 TIMES!David and t8,
What do you two think of this possibility? I would really like a non-trinitarians point of view on this. Sorry, I have posted this a couple times, but I can't stop thinking about it and I would really like some input. I consider this a fairly important part of the Trinity discussion.
What are all your opinions on the view that:
The Father is El
The Son is YHWHThe Church View: There is one being, creator, unseen, all wise, all-powerful.
The Bible View: The God of the Bible is a family of supreme spiritual beings named the Elohiym, which is headed by the omnipotent and Supreme Being in the universe named El and called the Father in the Bible. All power, love, and substance in the universe is created and controlled by this family and all the power possessed by that family originates with El. The God, who created life on this planet, and known as the God of Israel, is named Yhovah. He is the most powerful and senior family member of the Elohiym under El, and became the man called Jesus.
El gave his son, YHWH, Israel:
Deuteronomy 32:8-9
When the Most High [El Elyon] gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. For the LORD's [Yahweh's] portion is his people, Jacob his allotted inheritance.The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint prove that in the original Hebrew of Deuteronomy 32:8-9, Yahweh was portrayed as a member of the divine council under El. Therefore, those who subsequently tampered with the Hebrew text were probably Yahweh-only editors who wanted to erase the original distinction between El and Yahweh and to depict Yahweh as the one and only God.
Professor Mark Smith of Yale University states, “The original god of Israel was El. . . . El was the original chief god of the group named Israel. . . . Similarly, Deuteronomy 32:8-9 casts Yahweh in the role of one of the sons of El.” [Mark S. Smith, The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel (San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1990), 7, emphasis added.] Margaret Barker, of Oakbrook School in England, and member of the Society for Old Testament Study, explains:
1. Yahweh was one of the Sons of El Elyon, God Most High. In other words, he [Jesus] was described as a heavenly being. Thus the annunciation narrative has the term “Son of the Most High” (Luke 1:32) and the demoniac recognized his exorcist as “Son of the Most High God” (Mark 5:7). Jesus is not called son of Yahweh nor the son of the Lord, but he is called Lord. We also know that whoever wrote the New Testament translated the name Yahweh by Kyrios, Lord. (See, for example, the quotation from Deuteronomy 6:5: “You shall love Yahweh your God . . .” which is rendered in Luke 10:27 “You shall love the Lord [Kyrios] your God.”) This suggests that the Gospel writers, in using the terms “Lord” and “Son of God Most High,” saw Jesus as [divine] and gave him their version of the sacred name Yahweh. [Barker, The Great Angel, 4-5]
Barker goes on to say that the identification of Jesus as Yahweh happened “in the very earliest period; it was in fact, what the Christians were proclaiming when they said that Jesus was Lord. Jesus was Yahweh, the second God . . . . [T]he first Christians recognized that Jesus was Yahweh, not that he was in some way equivalent but not identical.” [Ibid., 221, emphasis in original.]When christ was on the cross, he blurted out “Eloi, Eloi, …”. The literal translation is NOT “My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me?” Rather, it is “My El, My El, why has thou forsaken me?”
If this view is correct, It would immediately solve the issue, however, one would have to acknowledge that priests wished to hide the truth and tampered with scripture. However, Jesus seemed to imply that this was exactly the case.
Matthew 16:5-12
5When the disciples reached the other side, they had forgotten to bring any bread. 6Jesus said to them, “Watch and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 7And they began discussing it among themselves, saying, “We brought no bread.” 8But Jesus, aware of this, said, “O you of little faith, why are you discussing among yourselves the fact that you have no bread? 9Do you not yet perceive? Do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? 10Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many baskets you gathered? 11How is it that you fail to understand that I did not speak about bread? Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.CB,
I want to thank you for responding politely with scripture. I would like to dig deeper into the scripture you opened with, to me it was your strongest case. Below I have responded to the scriptures you posted with how I see them supporting my position. Obviously we both interpret them differently otherwise we would be in agreement. Feel free to point out why you believe I would be wrong, I will listen (though I may not agree).Quote Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Philippians 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus 6 Who being in very nature God (Jesus is the nature of God) did not consider equality with God something to be grasped (even though he had God's nature He still did not think equality was something available for Him) 7 but made himself nothing taking the very nature of a servant being made in human likeness (the previous statement about being in the nature of God must have been pre-incarnate) . 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross! 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place (He could only be exalted by someone greater) and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Some translations give a different take on it (the above was from an earlier post).
Quote Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.“and this is the name whereby he shall be called”, in today's english “and He shall be known as Yhovah our righteousness”. Yhovah was the source of the sacrifice provided by Yesua, John and James were called sons of thunder in scripture, you can be named for attributes without being the item
Quote Most, even those who deny the personality of the Holy Spirit, will admit that He is God in some way. Scripture is clear that there is a “Holy Spirit” I posted previously “In my opinion, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are “lieutenants” in a “Godhead”, manifestations of an infinite God for His interaction to His finite creations, Jesus to the corporeal creation, and the Holy Spirit to His Spiritual creation. In them is the Godhead a trinity of sorts but not of the type being taught.”
I believe there is none like Jehovah (the Father) even the Son is only an image. (2 Corinthians 4:4 “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” or Hebrew 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.) If your talking about the source of all things the Father has no equal and in my opinion this includes the Holy Spirit. Where in scripture do you find that that all three are equal?
Quote He is clearly referred to as God: Acts 5:3, 4. Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. (his ultimate lie was to God but it was done through the Holy Spirit, if you lie to the representative, you lied to the one they represent.)
Quote 2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people. It says we are the temple of the living God not we are temples of the living God. We are told elsewhere that we are the Body of Christ. I read this as “what agreement do we have with idols, together we are the temple of God who has said, “through Jesus I (God) will walk among them and be their God and they will be mine”.
Quote 1 Corinthians 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 17If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
God's Spirit lives in you, and what is God's spirit except the Spirit that belongs to GodQuote The Holy Spirit is Yahweh: Compare Jeremiah 31:33, 34 with Hebrews 10:15-17.
“ Psalm 95:7-11 with Hebrews 3:7-11.
“ Isaiah 6:9, 10 with Acts 28:25-28.
“ 2 Samuel 23:2 with 2 Samuel 23:3I have no arguments with the Son having the same attributes as the Father but it does not make Him equal to the Father and there are a number of verses I've posted earlier that are quite clear that the Father is greater then the Son.
Quote The Holy Spirit is Eternal: Hebrews 9:14 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? ( this is best explained back a few verses “9:11 for if that which is being made useless [is] through glory, much more that which is remaining [is] in glory.” if the ashes which are useless bring glory how much more the blood of Christ who remains eternally also indicated in verse above 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
Quote Remember too the baptismal formula Jesus gave at Matthew 28:19 – “baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
It is easy to see that there are Three Persons in the Heavenly Trio.
I agree but that does not make all three equal.
While driving home I believe the Holy Spirit gave me a scripture to share. I know we all have read it before and many will say that it does not apply or I'm “adding to scripture”, but I believe it is the principle behind the example given in this scripture.
Romans 14:1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to (understand more things and) eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, (understands less and) eats only vegetables. 3The man who (has more knowledge) eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who (understands less) does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
What “God” is, is definitely a “disputable matter” (over 500 pages on another thread). Why does one “eat everything”, because he has a better understanding, and why does one who is weak “not eat”, because he does not have as good of an understanding. I believe we are taking the trinity dis-agreement beyond what it should be, we are not saved by having a full understanding of what God is, but by what He did for us.
As it says later in this same chapter “13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another.” To me that would include quoting damnation verses to one another (seems like judgment to me). One side, or the other, or possible both, is wrong, let God sort it out. If you've given the truth as you believe it, you've done your job.
May all who love the truth be blessed.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 06 2007,06:40) While driving home I believe the Holy Spirit gave me a scripture to share. I know we all have read it before and many will say that it does not apply or I'm “adding to scripture”, but I believe it is the principle behind the example given in this scripture. Romans 14:1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to (understand more things and) eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, (understands less and) eats only vegetables. 3The man who (has more knowledge) eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who (understands less) does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
What “God” is, is definitely a “disputable matter” (over 500 pages on another thread). Why does one “eat everything”, because he has a better understanding, and why does one who is weak “not eat”, because he does not have as good of an understanding. I believe we are taking the trinity dis-agreement beyond what it should be, we are not saved by having a full understanding of what God is, but by what He did for us.
As it says later in this same chapter “13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another.” To me that would include quoting damnation verses to one another (seems like judgment to me). One side, or the other, or possible both, is wrong, let God sort it out. If you've given the truth as you believe it, you've done your job.
May all who love the truth be blessed.
ComfortTotal righteous thoughts seekingtruth
Not without understanding much suffering brought herecharity
Quote (Mercy @ Jan. 06 2007,09:17) Very good post, seeking truth.
Thinking this also Mercy
It is not far away when people will gather themselves to a righteous Man
For we know and have read that the Lord only hears and answers the pray of the righteous Man.
Knowing this also many shall fall at their feet according to prophecy
Understand that many have not come to the knowledge of what righteous is yet,
But truly it is a broken and contrite heart offered before the lord.
It is a heart that no longer cares that it has to be always right, a teachable spirit.
Knowing this also that Men have to do it all wrong so that they can get it right.
Grace and mercy
God bless may we make full use of the righteous walkercharity
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