The Trinity Doctrine

Participant

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD (Yhovah) our God (Elohiym-Plural) is one (heiz) LORD (Yhovah):

'ĕlôhîym
gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God;

One (heiz) Lord means that Elohym (plural) is the only one or certain

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord (Kurios) our God (Theos) is one Lord (Kurios):

Jesus here in Mark 12:29 is obviously referring to Deut 6:4
Note that Theos is used in the place of Elohym which is plural.

Therefore Theos can be used in the context of the Godhead by Jesus’ own use of the phrase.

Consider:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God (Elohiym) created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 1:26 And God (Elohiym) said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness:

In these two verses Elohiym is the Godhead.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

The above passage must mean

there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ is also God. See Hebrews 1:8.

By omitting the comma after God, the whole meaning changes. Remember that there were no commas in the original Greek.

We cannot use 1Co 8:6 to deny the truth of other statements of Paul which confirms that Christ is fully God.

People often confuse the nature of the Godhead with Their work.

In nature each One is fully divine, fully God, self existent, and totally eternal-both past and future.

TEXTS CONTAINING ALL THREE PERSONS OF THE GODHEAD
Following are just some texts showing the understanding of the Three separate Divine Beings / Persons in One Godhead.

Matt. 28:19 Baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit

11 Cor. 13:14 Grace of Christ, the love of God and the communion of the Holy Spirit.

11 Cor. 1:21,22 He Who establishes in Christ, anointed us is God, and given us the Spirit
Ephesians 4:4-6 There is ONE SPIRIT, ONE LORD, ONE FATHER AND GOD OF ALL.

1 Thess. 5:18-19 Will of God in Christ Jesus…quench not the Spirit.
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Jude 20-21 Praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of Jesus Christ.

Notice also that ALL THREE MEMBERS were present at creation

Genesis 1:1,2 In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth…And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the the waters. And God said, …..

Genesis 1:26 “Let US make man in OUR image…so God created man in His image..male and female He created THEM.
Col. 1:15 “By Him [Christ] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, …all things were created through Him and for Him.”
All three were present at the incarnation!

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt. 28:19 Baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit

December 25, 2006 at 10:45 am#35193

Participant

Because Christ and The Holy Spirit each being God and part of the Godhead along with The Father, let's look closely at each.

Jesus is God

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily

Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus
Phi 2:6 Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God

Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came who is over all God blessed for ever Amen

Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness God was manifest in the flesh

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding that we may know him that is true and we are in him that is true even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,..

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mat 26:65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy;

(The high priest understood Jesus’ claim to be God and wrongly accused Him of blasphemy.)
Blasphemy can only be committed against God.

Mat 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mat 9:3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth. (They knew that only God can forgive sins.)
Mat 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God,…

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image,

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Mar 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mar 2:6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
Mar 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Joh 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Mar 5:6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him:
Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him,.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God (Theos).
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Deu 32:3 Because I will
publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD (yhovah), I change not;
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: (because Jesus claimed the name of God)

Joh 10:9 I am the door:
Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd:
Joh 11:25 … I am the resurrection,
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
Joh 15:1 I am the true vine,

Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

Acts 7:59, “And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

December 25, 2006 at 10:50 am#35194

Participant

Because Christ and The Holy Spirit each being God and part of the Godhead along with The Father, let's look closely at each.

The Holy Spirit is God

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?
5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Mathew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. (Blasphemy can only be committed against God)

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God (the Holy Ghost) in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God (the Holy Spirit) , and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord (God) is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.

9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit (only God hath immortality) offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The HOLY SPIRIT (a Person) is endowed with very “personal” characteristics like:
Intelligence and knowledge, feelings and teaching ability.

(John 14:26) “for He will teach you all things”.
1 Cor. 2:13,14 He teaches us spiritual things, helping us to discern spiritual things
(1 Cor. 12:11),He makes decisions –deciding who gets what spiritual gift
He has emotions and can be grieved (Eph. 4:30)
Romans 8:26 “The Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

(John 16:8) He convicts of sin, of righteousness and judgment
Rev. 22:17
He invites people to “come” (Matt. 12:31, Mark 3:29) He can be sinned and blasphemed against, which can lead to the unpardonable sin
“The Spirit Himself bears witness…. that we are children of God (Romans 8:16
He speaks (Acts 8:29)
teaches (Luke 12:12)
reveals (Luke 2:26)
testifies (Acts 20:23)
searches (1 Cor. 2:10,11)
He sets people apart for service and sends them on their way (Acts 13:2,4)
He commands and guides (Acts 8:29)
He declares things to come (John 16:13)
In John chapters 14-16 Christ referred to the Holy Spirit 24 times with personal PRONOUNS. HE, HIM. He addresses the Holy Spirit as a person, and treats Him as a person. In John 14:16 He calls Him the Comforter (Parakletos), which is a title which could only be held by a person.

December 25, 2006 at 3:05 pm#35198

Participant

Thanks CB this seemed a very good verse (chapter) to start with. I've added notes for the items I thought significant (as they relate to trinity), what have I missed and do others have comments we should consider?

Hebrews 1In the past God (has to be the Father) spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe (the Son pre-existed as a powerful being). 3The Son is the radiance of God's glory (indicates the Father is the source) and the exact representation (my take is that the Son is just like the Father but in a way we can comprehend) of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty (Supreme authority)in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
5For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”? (seems to indicate a start) Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son” (“will be” speaks of a future event) ? 6And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God's angels worship him.”[d] 7In speaking of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels winds,
his servants flames of fire.”[e] 8But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God (the Father calls the Son, God), will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God (the Father is God to the Son), has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”[f] 10He also says,
“In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
12You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”[g] 13To which of the angels did God ever say (the Son was never an angel),
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”[h]? 14Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

December 25, 2006 at 5:14 pm#35203

Participant

Hi CB,
” Therefore Theos can be used in the context of the Godhead by Jesus’ own use of the phrase.”
Or theos clarifies Eloyim as meaning our God, the Father.

“In these two verses Elohiym is the Godhead.”
You are on your own here with no scriptural backing.

“The above passage must mean”
Presumption.

“there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ is also God.”
What ever God calls Jesus does not alter the fact that FOR US there is one God.

“We cannot use 1Co 8:6 to deny the truth of other statements of Paul which confirms that Christ is fully God.”
Is it possible to be partially GOD?
So you say that the other angelic Eloyim as shown for example in Ps 97 must also be FULLY GOD?

“In nature each One is fully divine, fully God, self existent, and totally eternal-both past and future.”
Again you are separate from scripture bringing man's doctrine to be joined with God's-unwise.

December 25, 2006 at 5:19 pm#35204

Participant

Hi CB,
“In John chapters 14-16 Christ referred to the Holy Spirit 24 times with personal PRONOUNS. HE, HIM. He addresses the Holy Spirit as a person, and treats Him as a person. In John 14:16 He calls Him the Comforter (Parakletos), which is a title which could only be held by a person.”

You must not confuse inference with actual scriptural teaching.
Teach from facts, not implications.

December 25, 2006 at 5:21 pm#35205

Participant

Hi CB,
“Jesus is God”

The God calls Jesus God
But he is not the God that calls him God
And he is not the God of whom he is the SON

December 26, 2006 at 4:29 am#35241

Participant

Quote

The God calls Jesus God
But he is not the God that calls him God
And he is not the God of whom he is the SON

There are Three separate Beings, each God and equal with one another. Though they hold different offices, they are nevertherless each God.

Three Divine beings within the Godhead with three different offices they choose to perform,

H2O can exist in three different realities, yet remain H20
•Ice
•Liquid
•or Steam

Each Person of the Godhead can choose a different office within the plan of salvation, yet remain God.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Isaiah 6:3 says, “And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.” Did you catch that? That's one “holy” for each person of the Godhead!

All praise to God the Father… God the Son Jesus Christ… and God the Holy Spirit! ALL Three merit perfect praise. Holy, Holy, Holy! If there is only one God they would not have repeated the worshipful praise three times.

Holy! Holy! Holy!

December 26, 2006 at 4:37 am#35243

Participant

Hi CB,
I know that is what you teach.
But it is not the teaching of Scripture.
“Lord to whom else shall we go? You have the words of eternal life”

December 26, 2006 at 4:40 am#35244

Participant

Quote

Is it possible to be partially GOD?

Did you get that from the Watchtower? because it's not in the Bible.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Holy! Holy! Holy!

Come out of her ye sons and daughters of Arius.

December 26, 2006 at 4:58 am#35246

Participant

Hi CB,
No from you
“In nature each One is fully divine, fully God, self existent, and totally eternal-both past and future.”

If you state we have three deities that are FULLY DIVINE you imply there are deities that are partially so. If not why bother to say FULLY?

However it is all useless philosophy for
“For us there is ONE GOD..”

The God that is ONE.

Your human masters do not deserve the adulation you pay them by teaching their doctrines. They are merely men.

The Emperor is wearing no clothes Cult Buster and even children could tell you.

Serve not Constantine but Jesus

December 26, 2006 at 5:48 am#35249

Participant

This also seemed to be good verse.

Philippians 2:5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus 6 Who being in very nature God (Jesus was the nature of God) did not consider equality with God something to be grasped (even though he had God's nature He still did not think equality was something available for Him) 7 but made himself nothing taking the very nature of a servant being made in human likeness (the previous statement about being in the nature of God must have been pre-incarnate) . 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross! 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place (He could only be exalted by someone greater) and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

December 26, 2006 at 6:14 am#35251

Participant

Another good verse:

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him (Jesus is worthy of worship); but some doubted. (doubted what?) 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. (highest position) 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (seems clear but does this mean they're all equal?) 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

December 26, 2006 at 6:42 am#35252