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Hey Keith!
So sorry you misunderstood me; I was very excited and writing very fast. I do not judge anyone's walk based on if they believe in the trinity or not, for YHWH judges the heart. Do I believe that one can believe in the trinity and have a deep walk with Him? Absolutely! My only point is that the doctrine itself encourages the belief that if Jesus was God, we cannot walk as He did. This has nothing to do with individual hearts. A trinitarian can disagree with the above statement, and rightly so . Yes, we are called to be perfect as YHWH is perfect, then later called to walk as Jesus did. How beautiful the way scripture lines up!
1 John 2:6
6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did .
NIVWe are the body of Messiah. I will never be “against” my brothers and sisters. So sorry for the misunderstanding. I do not claim to have all knowledge, nor will I ever feel as if I have “arrived.” Yahuweh judges the heart, this is not my job. It sounds like you have an earnest heart for Him and His ways. So do I! I am your sister, and I love you, my brother!
John 17:21-23
21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23 I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
NIV– This is true unity that we are called to. There is major power in this unity. Again, I will say that I love my brothers and sisters and will not fight against them!
– Just a little FYI- You all may not see me posting extremely regularly because I want to be careful not to get into intellectual, theological battles. It is so easy to do this, and for motives to get foggy. Please note that this is my personal decision, and by saying this, I pass no judgement on anyone.
Quote My only point is that the doctrine itself encourages the belief that if Jesus was God, we cannot walk as He did. Hi Shania!
Thanks for your response! I still dont quiet understand the above statement!
But I will accept your explanation without debate, and out of respect for your desire not to get into theological debate!
You seem to have a different Spirit than what I have experinced Here!
I would leave you with this! I have given my life to Jesus and the Father and his Holy Spirit is my Guide! I have repented of my sins and seek first the kingdom of God in my life! I know that I am a long way from being perfect but I do press for the mark of the High calling of God in Christ!
From what I know of scripture I believe that as long as I do these these things than there is no end to how much I or anyone else can mature and grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord!
Sorry for misunderstanding you and Passing quick Judgment!
The lord Bless you and His!
Keith
Hi W,
It is important we be found wearing the correct wedding garment.Gal 3
” 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. “Many have been infant baptised, or baptised in another name but that of Jesus, and if Paul was here he would correct these matters with each person he came into contact with so we share this information with you to enable you to decide what you should do.
Quote Posted: Nov. 02 2006,00:30 ——————————————————————————–
Quote
My only point is that the doctrine itself encourages the belief that if Jesus was God, we cannot walk as He did.Hi Shania!
Thanks for your response! I still dont quiet understand the above statement!
But I will accept your explanation without debate, and out of respect for your desire not to get into theological debate!
You seem to have a different Spirit than what I have experinced Here!
I would leave you with this! I have given my life to Jesus and the Father and his Holy Spirit is my Guide! I have repented of my sins and seek first the kingdom of God in my life! I know that I am a long way from being perfect but I do press for the mark of the High calling of God in Christ!
Hi Shania!
Also I have been baptised in the Holy Ghost and fire as well as Baptised in full submersion in the Name of The Lord Jesus Christ!
Blessings!
Hi W,
If we have followed Jesus into his death and resurrection then as true servants we must abide in the teachings of Christ and abhor what is not of him. We show our faithfulness to our Master by teaching only what he taught. And we must be careful to preach the true way of salvation to others lest we cause them to stumble.We must abide in Christ and his words
that we may abide in the love of the Father and the Son
and they will dwell in us and God will answer our prayers.Salvation by faith alone or other means, trinity doctrine and many other things are taught that are not found in the mouths of the approved servants of God and we must abhor them and expose them as of the whore and her master, the evil one.
1Cor 10
” 1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”
Jn 14
“
21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. “
Jn 15
” 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.”
2Jn
” 6And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
8Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.”
Quote Salvation by faith alone or other means, trinity doctrine and many other things are taught that are not found in the mouths of the approved servants of God and we must abhor them and expose them as of the whore and her master, the evil one. Hey Nick!
So does your group believe like the JWs that if you don’t accept everything that you teach that a person would be somehow not in a relationship with God the Father or the Lord Jesus or in his kingdom or in his group?Does every born again believer in the body of Christ the true Church have to swallow your definition of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in order to be saved or have a deep relationship with God?
The word doctrine is: didache {did-akh-ay'}, teaching, that which is taught!
Has your group arrived in the full understanding of the teachings of the doctrines of Christ?
Is your doctrine perfect?
So if someone has an understanding of the scriptures different from yours then they are imphatically wrong and you are right?
So are you always right?
If the answer to the above is yes, sounds like elitism to me!
I think God hates elitism!But you know I won’t and never have said that you didn’t know Christ or made judgment as to your personal relationship with God, and I won’t start now! If I have implied it, then I’m sorry!
And I pray that you will continue to grow in his grace and in his knowledge and that Jesus would bless you beyond measure!
In Christ Love my Brother!
Hi W,
We do not have a group except our unity in Christ, the scriptures and the Spirit. We are not always right but we know where truth is to be found and we do not mine unprofitable areas such as the doctrines of men.We are walking while we are in the light and not basking in the weak glow of fossilised tradition. Many are offended by the message that we preach just as that message has always caused offence. Is it scripture that offends you or just the poor servants who tell you what is written?
Does a wrong knowledge of the nature of God that is offensive to Him infringe on your relationship with Him? Only you can know that but discarding falsehood will certainly improve things as that is what He wants us to do.
Quote Hi W,
We do not have a group except our unity in Christ, the scriptures and the Spirit. We are not always right but we know where truth is to be found and we do not mine unprofitable areas such as the doctrines of men.We are walking while we are in the light and not basking in the weak glow of fossilised tradition. Many are offended by the message that we preach just as that message has always caused offence. Is it scripture that offends you or just the poor servants who tell you what is written?
Does a wrong knowledge of the nature of God that is offensive to Him infringe on your relationship with Him? Only you can know that but discarding falsehood will certainly improve things as that is what He wants us to do.
Hey Nick
Offended? No.
But this is my heart.
Eph. 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
[2] With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
[3] Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.Once I have done this part then I can teach this part!
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
[5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
[6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
[7] But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.Blessings!
Hi W,
It is false doctrines we attack as they raise themselves up against the truth of God.Eph 6
“5Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;6Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
9And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
2Cor 10
“We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,'We try to rescue those entrapped by falsehood.
Jas 5
” 19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.'
Jude
” 21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.22And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,”
Quote Hi W,
It is false doctrines we attack as they raise themselves up against the truth of God.Eph 6
“5Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;6Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
9And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
2Cor 10
“We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,'We try to rescue those entrapped by falsehood.
Jas 5
” 19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.'
Jude
” 21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.22And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,”
Amen Nick!
Amen.
We should out of love rescue those caught up in false doctrine. It is just a pity that some attack those who are caught up in false doctrines, while others even attack those who preach true doctrine. I hope that people who come here learn how to distinguish between false doctrine and people who are made in the image of God.
We need to learn how to respect one another even when we disagree. Yes if we can crucify a false doctrine then do it, but we shouldn't crucify people.
The only exception is that we crucify ourselves. If we did that, there would be less clashing of egos here.
Quote Amen. We should out of love rescue those caught up in false doctrine. It is just a pity that some attack those who are caught up in false doctrines, while others even attack those who preach true doctrine. I hope that people who come here learn how to distinguish between false doctrine and people who are made in the image of God.
We need to learn how to respect one another even when we disagree. Yes if we can crucify a false doctrine then do it, but we shouldn't crucify people.
The only exception is that we crucify ourselves. If we did that, there would be less clashing of egos here.
Once again Amen! Nick!
“This is my commandment that you Love one another”.
Hi W,
Should we tolerate what God does not?
Should we say all views of God are valid and not defend scriptural truth?
Are we pleasers of men or God?Eph 6
' 5Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ;6not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. '
For there are many deceivers and false prophets who have gone into the world.
2Jn
'2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.'The antichrist spirit teaches that Christ did not come in the flesh but rather God did.
1Jn 4
” 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. “
Quote Hi W,
Should we tolerate what God does not?
Should we say all views of God are valid and not defend scriptural truth?
Are we pleasers of men or God?Eph 6
' 5Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ;6not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. '
For there are many deceivers and false prophets who have gone into the world.
2Jn
'2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.'The antichrist spirit teaches that Christ did not come in the flesh but rather God did.
1Jn 4
” 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. ”
Hey Nick!
I sence a little frustration in your words!
Do you think that you are the only defender of the truth on this sight?
Do you not see that there are others that may not agree with everythiing you say or believe like you do, but still have a relationship with God the Father and his Son Jesus?
What really bothers me about some on this site is that there is an elitist spirit as if they have all the truth and they cannot be wrong in what they say or believe!
But worse than that its the lack of meekness and fear before the Lord.
I am also guilty of this. I ask his forgiveness!
Having room to hear what someone is saying and seriously considering that it might be valid!
The unity of the Spirit is something that we Endeavour to do.
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
But my friend it will not come by useless debates about words and symantics. Sure we should be able to have open and friendly debate.
But when the debate gets over into a proud or mean or haughty spirit, then it no longer is useful.
I will be the first to admit that I have been blessed by coming here.
I will tell you Nick that I have learned from you! I still hold to what I believe God has shown me just as you do.
I have heard you discuss so much Nick. But why dont we say that we will pray for one another. Jesus rebuked the disciples heavily when they disputed among themselves.
Jesus KNOWING WHO he was gird himself and washed the disciples feet!
Nick everone here that I have heard defend the trinity has not denied the Father or the Son!
So why would we cast judgment on them as if they dont know the Father or the Son?
Anyway I pray that God through his Spirit will enlighten our hearts and minds that we may know him more intimatly. This is why I have stayed here. This has been a tool for me to search the scriptures.
I praise God for what he is showing me and he will continue to lead me.
I pray for you also Nick that the God and Father of our Lord Jesus may give unto you the Spirit of revelation.. and I hope you do the same for me!
God Bless Keith
Hi W,
The work and the results are God's so no frustration.
His messages have never met a pleasant welcome but often a murderous response.
The problem is with the handling of sacred scripture.
God has plainly taught the simple things he wants His little children to hear and understand.
However experts have dredged deeper and found what they believe are hidden truths that are equal in validity.
Now these are taught as orthodoxy and simple believers are looked down upon as ill informed.2Cor 11
“1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him”
As soon as I see the trinity God, which so many proclaim as their God, being worshiped and prayed to as people do to their gods then their message may have some strength.
Instead they worship and pray to persons within that trinity as if they were separate deities, though everyone ignores the Spirit.
Words are fine but without consistent actions are they not proven to be vain speculations?Quote As soon as I see the trinity God, which so many proclaim as their God, being worshiped and prayed to as people do to their gods then their message may have some strength.
Instead they worship and pray to persons within that trinity as if they were separate deities, though everyone ignores the Spirit.
Words are fine but without consistent actions are they not proven to be vain speculations?Nick!
And so it goes on. The thing is Nick I Do believe in One God! God the Father in Jesus the Son By the Holy Spirit. They are one!
And we dont ignore the Spirit! But we have no basis to discuss the Spirit because you dont believe the Spirit Is God who is the Father and the Son dwelling in us! The Spirit that lives in me IS Christ and the Father. The Spirit was poured out from the Father through the Son! It is not A Spirit of God as if God and Jesus sits up in heaven somewhere and A spirit is at work in his place in me! It is The Father and the Son that lives in my Body by the Spirit! He has again come to tabernacle among us! The Spirit of the Son is In me crying Abba Father!
I dont know how else to tell you that I believe as you do but I see that the Word is and was eternally in the bosum of the Father.
Blessings
Hi W,
God is in heaven where Jesus told us to pray to Him, and the Son of God is at His right hand.Acts 7
” 55But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. “
And Christ is here within his body with the Father as Spirit.
Hi w,
We know scripture is true.
So looking at these verses
Phil 2
” 13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”Eph 3
” 19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.”Applying these verses to you I ask;
Should I come and worship God in you?
If not why not.How about this one
Eph 2
20″And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
Should we go and worship God in the assembly?
If not why not.Because God is in heaven and we can each worship Him in our own spirit temples in which His Spirit dwells connecting us with God. And together we make up a larger temple, the body of Christ, the new Jerusalem.
Eph 2
” 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.”Quote God is in heaven where Jesus told us to pray to Him, and the Son of God is at His right hand. Acts 7
” 55But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,56And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. “
And Christ is here within his body with the Father as Spirit.
Hey Nick!
Oh thats right you dont believe that God is everywhere!
Nick my Bible says that all the fullness of God dwells in Jesus and his Spirit (God is Spirit) dwells in me. Not his agent..A Spirit of God! Agency..Talk to JWs.
Romans 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Interesting Nick… Spirit of Christ,Spirit of God = One Spirit! God is a Spirit”Ring any bells yet Nick?
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
One Spirit NicK!
II Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.
Hi w,
We know scripture is true.
So looking at these verses
Phil 2
” 13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”Eph 3
” 19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.”Applying these verses to you I ask;
Should I come and worship God in you?
If not why not.How about this one
Eph 2
20″And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
Should we go and worship God in the assembly?
If not why not.Because God is in heaven and we can each worship Him in our own spirit temples in which His Spirit dwells connecting us with God. And together we make up a larger temple, the body of Christ, the new Jerusalem.
Eph 2
” 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father
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