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Hi W,
You say
“Hey Nick! You say Jesus the Word had a beginning! This is where I end this convsation. if you dont even believe in the eternal nature of Jesus never having a beginning! No need to carry on”Over to you but such teaching comes from catholic tradition and not the bible.
It is hard to shake our reliance on men for 'truth'.Hi W,
Not so.
It is you who would divide God's Spirit
from God the Father,
as another person in God.Anathema.
God is the Father and He works through His Spirit throughout all His creation.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 30 2006,20:08) Hi Oxy
You say
“Our soul is our identity, our will, our choices.
Our spirit includes our conscience, “gut feeling” instinct etc.
Our body will one day die and return to dust and we will receive a new one (can't wait for that! lol).We make choices every day based on our body's needs and the guidence of our spirit, so our identity is the “head” of us.
Why is it then so hard to see God in a similar light, not exactly the same as us obviously, but, being created in His image, we are three in one.”
God is not made in our image.
If you are to make this comparison then you must state that Jesus is only a body who died.
You must say that body was forever and not from earth.
You must say he had no spirit or soul of his own which scripture tells us he did have.
You make our God to only be a soul whereas He is a Living being who begat a son.
You make the Spirit of God to be powerless.
Nick, you make a lot of nonsense lolI said that we are made in HIS image, not the other way around. I was simply pointing out that the Father is the ultimate authority, Jesus came in the flesh and the Spirit is spirit.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 30 2006,22:39) Hi W,
You say
“Hey Nick! You say Jesus the Word had a beginning! This is where I end this convsation. if you dont even believe in the eternal nature of Jesus never having a beginning! No need to carry on”Over to you but such teaching comes from catholic tradition and not the bible.
It is hard to shake our reliance on men for 'truth'.
The Word of God was with God and was God. He is still the Word of God today. Jesus, or should i say the Word is every bit as eternal as the father. Jesus became the “begooten Son” when He was born of Mary.Hi Oxy,
If the status of Jesus as the unique monogenes Son relates to just his conception in and birth from Mary then that sonship is tainted by sinful man. No. He is the very divine image of God in his origins as a son who was sent into the world.1Jn 4
“8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.”
Hi Oxy,
And Jesus is the Son who was sent into the world.
1Jn 4
“8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.”
John 2:19 says “All right,” Jesus replied. “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
I would have expected Jesus to say that the Father, not himself, would raise it up.So why does Jesus use “I”?
Hi and welcome rk,
He was a prophet.
God spoke through him.
God raised him as many scriptures make plain, by His Spirit abiding in him, just as that Spirit will raise those in Christ.
It is interesting that the enemies of Jesus quoted this at his trial as a blasphemous statement and some now will also try to use these words now to make him an idol.Hi everyone. I haven't posted in about 3 years. (Back when there were only 15 pages on the subject!) I just wanted to say “Thanks” to those who helped me get through that time in my life. I am so thankful that Yahuweh our Elohim takes us through trials that lead us to Him. He has been maturing me into His bride, day by day.
– just a little note on the trinity- it robs us of the relationship we are to have with our Father. We are called to walk as Messiah did. This is walking in the Spirit, doing everything the Father shows us, not in slavery to sin. Trinitarians claim that Jesus was God, so that we cannot walk like Him. This is false. He is our mediator, enabaling us to have a relationship with the only true Elohim (Mightiest of Mighty Ones, “God”) Man sinned, therefore a man had to pay the price- the second Adam. The first one sinned and therefore could not walk intimately with the Father anymore. Because of our redeemer, Messiah Yahushua (Jesus), we can have this relationship. This is salvation. It is not to be saved from hell, rather we are saved from our nasty, sinful selves that we may know him In John 17:3, Jesus reveals that the purpose of His sacrifice was to give us the relationship that He had with the Father. How beautiful is this! That we may know Him! I am so thankful.Quote He has been maturing me into His bride, day by day.
– just a little note on the trinity- it robs us of the relationship we are to have with our Father. We are called to walk as Messiah did. This is walking in the Spirit, doing everything the Father shows us, not in slavery to sin. Trinitarians claim that Jesus was God, so that we cannot walk like Him. This is false. He is our mediator, enabaling us to have a relationship with the only true Elohim (Mightiest of Mighty Ones, “God”) Man sinned, therefore a man had to pay theHello Shania!
Glad to meet you!
I’m Troubled at your statement!
Why do you pass judgment and make little of a person’s relationship with God because his doctrine may differ from yours!
Because a person believes in the deity of Christ he cannot walk like him?
Jesus said himself……
Mt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Are we not also to walk like the Father?
You say “We are called to walk as Messiah did.”
Did not the Messiah walk perfectly?
I thought the key to being a child of God was Believing That Jesus was the Savior and confessing our sins, being washed by the blood of Jesus and being born again by his Spirit was the prerequisite to knowing and developing a relationship with God the Father!
I don’t know any Trinitarians that don’t believe Rom 10:8,9.
8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.Do you know any that doesn’t believe the above? Is there more that we have to do to be saved or to develop a deep relationship with the Father!
When I hear blanket judgments like this against true believers by anyone claiming to be a Son of God, I have to question the sincerity of their own doctrine!
Blessings Keith
Quote This is salvation. It is not to be saved from hell, rather we are saved from our nasty, sinful selves that we may know him In John 17:3, Jesus reveals that the purpose of His sacrifice was to give us the relationship that He had with the Father. How beautiful is this! That we may know Him! I am so thankful. Shania
How true! Im reminded of ….Phil 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
[8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
[9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
[10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
[11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
[12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
[13] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
[14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
[15] Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.How beautiful is his Word!
Phil 4:23 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you!
Keith
Hi W,
You say
“Do you know any that doesn’t believe the above? Is there more that we have to do to be saved or to develop a deep relationship with the Father!:”
Romans was written to the saved not the unsaved-check Ch 1- and thus this is not a new way of salvation shown in Rom 10 but a living response to that salvation. That salvation is shown in Jn 3 and the Acts of the apostles. Paul asks this of the new jewish converts who were tempted to try to go back to Judaism.You must be born again.
“John 2:19 says “All right,” Jesus replied. “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
I would have expected Jesus to say that the Father, not himself, would raise it up.So why does Jesus use “I”?”
Hello dk. This is a good question.
By what he here said, did Jesus mean that he would resurrect himself from the dead?
Using a similar mode of expression, at Luke 8:48 Jesus is quoted as saying to a woman: “Your faith has made you well.” Did she heal herself? No; it was power from God through Christ that healed her because she had faith. (Luke 8:46; Acts 10:38) Likewise, by his perfect obedience as a human, Jesus provided the moral basis for the Father to raise him from the dead, thus acknowledging Jesus as God’s Son. Because of Jesus’ faithful course of life, it could properly be said that Jesus himself was responsible for his resurrection.
Says A. T. Robertson in Word Pictures in the New Testament: “Recall [John] 2:19 where Jesus said: ‘And in three days I will raise it up.’ He did not mean that he will raise himself from the dead independently of the Father as the active agent (Rom. 8:11).”—(New York, 1932), Vol. V, p. 183.
Quote Quote
He has been maturing me into His bride, day by day.
– just a little note on the trinity- it robs us of the relationship we are to have with our Father. We are called to walk as Messiah did. This is walking in the Spirit, doing everything the Father shows us, not in slavery to sin. Trinitarians claim that Jesus was God, so that we cannot walk like Him. This is false. He is our mediator, enabaling us to have a relationship with the only true Elohim (Mightiest of Mighty Ones, “God”) Man sinned, therefore a man had to pay theHello Shania!
Glad to meet you!
I’m Troubled at your statement!
Why do you pass judgment and make little of a person’s relationship with God because his doctrine may differ from yours!
Because a person believes in the deity of Christ he cannot walk like him?
Jesus said himself……
Mt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Are we not also to walk like the Father?
You say “We are called to walk as Messiah did.”
Did not the Messiah walk perfectly?
I thought the key to being a child of God was Believing That Jesus was the Savior and confessing our sins, being washed by the blood of Jesus and being born again by his Spirit was the prerequisite to knowing and developing a relationship with God the Father!
I don’t know any Trinitarians that don’t believe Rom 10:8,9.
8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.Do you know any that doesn’t believe the above? Is there more that we have to do to be saved or to develop a deep relationship with the Father!
When I hear blanket judgments like this against true believers by anyone claiming to be a Son of God, I have to question the sincerity of their own doctrine!
Blessings Keith
————–
Hi Shania!
Just so there isnt any confusion, I did say that you must be born again to be saved!
Some may want to be contentious! So just trying to be Pithy!
Blessings!
Quote Quote
Quote
He has been maturing me into His bride, day by day.
– just a little note on the trinity- it robs us of the relationship we are to have with our Father. We are called to walk as Messiah did. This is walking in the Spirit, doing everything the Father shows us, not in slavery to sin. Trinitarians claim that Jesus was God, so that we cannot walk like Him. This is false. He is our mediator, enabaling us to have a relationship with the only true Elohim (Mightiest of Mighty Ones, “God”) Man sinned, therefore a man had to pay theHello Shania!
Glad to meet you!
I’m Troubled at your statement!
Why do you pass judgment and make little of a person’s relationship with God because his doctrine may differ from yours!
Because a person believes in the deity of Christ he cannot walk like him?
Jesus said himself……
Mt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Are we not also to walk like the Father?
You say “We are called to walk as Messiah did.”
Did not the Messiah walk perfectly?
I thought the key to being a child of God was Believing That Jesus was the Savior and confessing our sins, being washed by the blood of Jesus and being born again by his Spirit was the prerequisite to knowing and developing a relationship with God the Father!
I don’t know any Trinitarians that don’t believe Rom 10:8,9.
8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.Do you know any that doesn’t believe the above? Is there more that we have to do to be saved or to develop a deep relationship with the Father!
When I hear blanket judgments like this against true believers by anyone claiming to be a Son of God, I have to question the sincerity of their own doctrine!
Blessings Keith
HMM wrong color!
Hi Shania!
Just so there isnt any confusion, I did say that you must be born again to be saved!
Some may want to be contentious! So just trying to be Pithy!
Blessings!
Quote Posted: Nov. 01 2006,00:01 ——————————————————————————–
“John 2:19 says “All right,” Jesus replied. “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
I would have expected Jesus to say that the Father, not himself, would raise it up.So why does Jesus use “I”?”
Hello dk. This is a good question.
By what he here said, did Jesus mean that he would resurrect himself from the dead?
Using a similar mode of expression, at Luke 8:48 Jesus is quoted as saying to a woman: “Your faith has made you well.” Did she heal herself? No; it was power from God through Christ that healed her because she had faith. (Luke 8:46; Acts 10:38) Likewise, by his perfect obedience as a human, Jesus provided the moral basis for the Father to raise him from the dead, thus acknowledging Jesus as God’s Son. Because of Jesus’ faithful course of life, it could properly be said that Jesus himself was responsible for his resurrection.
Says A. T. Robertson in Word Pictures in the New Testament: “Recall [John] 2:19 where Jesus said: ‘And in three days I will raise it up.’ He did not mean that he will raise himself from the dead independently of the Father as the active agent (Rom. 8:11).”—(New York, 1932), Vol. V, p. 183.
Hey David!
What did Jesus mean then in this scripture?
Jn 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
[18] No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.Blessings
Hi W,
Jn 15 is similar.
John 15:13
“Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.”
This does not mean Jesus killed himself though does it?Quote (Shania @ Nov. 01 2006,16:31) Hi everyone. I haven't posted in about 3 years. (Back when there were only 15 pages on the subject!) I just wanted to say “Thanks” to those who helped me get through that time in my life. I am so thankful that Yahuweh our Elohim takes us through trials that lead us to Him. He has been maturing me into His bride, day by day.
– just a little note on the trinity- it robs us of the relationship we are to have with our Father. We are called to walk as Messiah did. This is walking in the Spirit, doing everything the Father shows us, not in slavery to sin. Trinitarians claim that Jesus was God, so that we cannot walk like Him. This is false. He is our mediator, enabaling us to have a relationship with the only true Elohim (Mightiest of Mighty Ones, “God”) Man sinned, therefore a man had to pay the price- the second Adam. The first one sinned and therefore could not walk intimately with the Father anymore. Because of our redeemer, Messiah Yahushua (Jesus), we can have this relationship. This is salvation. It is not to be saved from hell, rather we are saved from our nasty, sinful selves that we may know him In John 17:3, Jesus reveals that the purpose of His sacrifice was to give us the relationship that He had with the Father. How beautiful is this! That we may know Him! I am so thankful.
Amen.Hi again Shania.
I remember when you posted last time. Doesn't seem like 3 years ago.
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