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Hi W,
When?
The Son of God has divine origins as the image of Almighty God and through him God created all things, including the archangels.
He emptied and humbled himself and partook of flesh to become just like us in every way but sin, and less than the angels for a time.
Now he is at the right hand of God and about to return still infilled by the deity of God to restore the kingdom given him by the Father and he will return that kingdom to God when it is restored.Hi W,
You say
“Yet the Father has spoken through the Holy Ghost that He is the Express Image Of God.The Image of the invisible God! “
Yet somehow you also say he is the God of whom he is an image??1Jn 5
” 21Little children, keep yourselves from idols.”Yes to say that Jesus is God (himself) you are denying that Jesus is the “image of that God”. You cannot be the source and image. Surely we are MADE in the image of God, and yet we are not the Almighty either.
The Father is the source of all good. Jesus is the image. We are MADE in the image.
That is what scripture teaches. Plain and simple.
The head of the woman is the man, the head of the man is Christ, the head of Christ is God.
We don't need the crutches of creeds to hold us up in faith. God gave us solid ground on which to stand. We stand on the truth.
Matthew 28:20
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 30 2006,03:19) Quote (Oxy @ Oct. 27 2006,04:53) Quote (Oxy @ Oct. 27 2006,03:29) Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come. Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.
John 14:26 is interesting. It kinda sums up that the Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son, but is a “whom” being recognised by Jesus as an identity.Time to give up Nick and t8 and all you others who don't believe.
Hi Oxy,
We are not meant to read with eyes of faith in what is not written. What is written must suffice.
So are you telling me Nick, that there is no further revelation other than what is written?Hi Oxy,
A man is unwise to teach anything beyond scripture on matters relating to God and His relationship with His creation. Many claim special personal revelations but they prove the reality of that danger and the gullibility and vulnerability of men.Col 2
” 18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,19And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.”
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Oct. 26 2006,19:44) I don't think that there is anything in the immediate textual context of the John 20:28 passage that indicates a dual address. However, I do think that the cultural context of Thomas' statement casts a great shadow of doubt that he was identifying Yeshua as “God, the second person of the Trinity”. Thomas as a 1st century Jew was familiar with the Hebrew scriptures and Hebrew thinking, which, as Adam Pastor demonstrated in his post about “agency”, can be very different from modern day thinking. For example, he was clearly aware that “lord” was the proper appellation for YHWH's annointed one, (i.e. the king).
Quote
Look, this day your eyes have seen that [YHWH] delivered you today into my hand in the cave, and someone urged me to kill you. But my eye spared you, and I[David] said, ‘I will not stretch out my hand against my lord, for he is YHWH’s anointed, (1 Samuel 24:10).’Then Saul knew David’s voice, and said, “Is that your voice, my son David?” David said, “It is my voice, my lord, O king, (1 Samuel 26:17).”
And he was also aware that judges in Israel, who were supposed to represent YHWH, were called by the same Hebrew word for “god”, elohim.
Quote So he shall be your spokesman to the people. And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God, (Exodus 4:16). You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High, (Psalm 82:6).
Accordingly, Yeshua was both Thomas' lord, (i.e. the king, YHWH's annointed), and his god, (i.e. the divinely appointed judge over Israel). But, ultimately, any recognition of Yeshua as the divinely appointed judge of Israel was a recognition of YHWH himself as the Judge of all.
Beautifully said … Truly this is What Is True !!!Hi Oxy
You say
“Our soul is our identity, our will, our choices.
Our spirit includes our conscience, “gut feeling” instinct etc.
Our body will one day die and return to dust and we will receive a new one (can't wait for that! lol).We make choices every day based on our body's needs and the guidence of our spirit, so our identity is the “head” of us.
Why is it then so hard to see God in a similar light, not exactly the same as us obviously, but, being created in His image, we are three in one.”
God is not made in our image.
If you are to make this comparison then you must state that Jesus is only a body who died.
You must say that body was forever and not from earth.
You must say he had no spirit or soul of his own which scripture tells us he did have.
You make our God to only be a soul whereas He is a Living being who begat a son.
You make the Spirit of God to be powerless.Quote Hi W,
You say
“Yet the Father has spoken through the Holy Ghost that He is the Express Image Of God.The Image of the invisible God! “
Yet somehow you also say he is the God of whom he is an image??1Jn 5
” 21Little children, keep yourselves from idols.”
Hey Nick!How do you separate an image from the source? The Image exist because of the source. However, without the image there is no source!
When you look in the mirror do you say “Oh look its an image of Nick!” If what you see it is not Nick then what is it! Its an image of Nick to be sure!
But , If you take away the mirror does the image of Nick still exist?
If I slap you in the face I suppose Im just slapping your body and not you. Unless you believe that you are not a Spirit who lives in a body. Your flesh is as much Nick as your Spirit. If you separate them then Nick “the man” dosn’t exist. Why is this so hard to see!
You guys deny the laws of metaphysics!
Fish beget fish! Monkeys beget monkeys! Birds beget birds! Deity begets deity! Is the baby chic any less a chicken than its mother hen? Only in its status as a Mother hen. Power and authority, position. But the baby chicken is a chicken! Is it the same chicken as its Mother? No. But never the less its still a chicken with a different personality!
However, when it comes to the God Head, Paul tells us this is a Great Mystery!
Jesus the Eternal Spirit unlike the little chic had no beginning. His Spirit was not born like ours! He was the Only Begotten, (monogenes {mon-og-en-ace' Only one of its kind} of the Father. He was always with the Father!
We share the devine nature of God through being born again from above. Jesus was not born again.
Jesus “Was” the divine nature taking on the form of a man!
We are men taking on the form of divine nature! Therefore he is the first and the last!
I Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
[3] And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.John is referring to the Father God here but yet he is referring to the Son! Who shall appear here?
Pss 102: 5 So the heathen shall fear the name of the LORD, and all the kings of the earth thy glory.
[16] When the LORD shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory.I Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
Shall we be like him? Yes. Shall we be as he is the “Only Begotten” of the Father sharing his place as God? No!
There is no need to continue this discussion because you have closed your eyes to the truth! We have acknowledged the Father and The Son and the Holy Spirit!
We believe in One God found in the Father The Son and Holy Spirit! We have not denied any of them! We have not denied any of the scriptures that you give!
However you have denied that the Holy Spirit is even a person, which is another subject in its self!
We simply say that if you take ALL the scriptures in Question, then it leaves you with no other explanation!
However this is a mystery which can only be seen by the Spirit of revelation in the knowledge of him!
In Christ! keith
Hi W,
You say
“How do you separate an image from the source? The Image exist because of the source. However, without the image there is no source!”
You can have a source without an image . Only the image needs a source.God is the Original.
Images are not of the same glory any more than the moon is equal to the Sun in Glory.The moon has no glory except from the Son. The Son hasd no glory except what is given by the Source of glory.
1Cor 15
“40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory”
“
Hi w,
You say
“Fish beget fish! Monkeys beget monkeys! Birds beget birds! Deity begets deity! Is the baby chic any less a chicken than its mother hen? Only in its status as a Mother hen. Power and authority, position. But the baby chicken is a chicken! Is it the same chicken as its Mother? No. But never the less its still a chicken with a different personality”So Gods beget Gods that are somehow equal to the Original God??
Hi W,
You say
“We share the devine nature of God through being born again from above. Jesus was not born again.”Jesus was reborn from above in the Jordan.
He was a man with his own spirit and he was anointed with the Spirit of God.Thus we can follow him.
Hi W
You said
“Pss 102: 5 So the heathen shall fear the name of the LORD, and all the kings of the earth thy glory.
[16] When the LORD shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory”God is eternally united with the Son and, as Jesus explained to Thomas in jn 14, when he is seen so is the Father in him so when he appears so is the Father manifest too.
Hi w,
You said
“He was always with the Father!”We should not go beyond scripture.
Scripture says he was WITH the Father in the beginning but that makes no statement that he had no beginning himself. He is a son and sons have beginnings.Hi W,
You said.
“We believe in One God found in the Father The Son and Holy Spirit! We have not denied any of them! We have not denied any of the scriptures that you give! “
God is one.
God has a son.Hi W
You say
“However you have denied that the Holy Spirit is even a person, which is another subject in its self!”As soon as you show me from scripture
that the Spirit of God is a separate person
from the God of Whom He is the Spirit
I will believe you.Hi w,
You say
“There is no need to continue this discussion because you have closed your eyes to the truth!”It is you who has brought unscriptural teaching here and is unwilling to allow those traditions to be realigned according to the Word of God. I suggest you be brave and allow God to teach you rather than the traditions and CREEDS OF MEN.
That is what God wants
Prov 25
” 2It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. “1Thess 5
” 21Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. “Quote Hi W,
You say
“How do you separate an image from the source? The Image exist because of the source. However, without the image there is no source!”
You can have a source without an image . Only the image needs a source.God is the Original.
Hey Nick. So are you saying without Christ God has no Image?.
Quote Hi W,
You say
“We share the devine nature of God through being born again from above. Jesus was not born again.”Jesus was reborn from above in the Jordan.
He was a man with his own spirit and he was anointed with the Spirit of God.Thus we can follow him.
Hi w,
You said
“He was always with the Father!”We should not go beyond scripture.
Scripture says he was WITH the Father in the beginning but that makes no statement that he had no beginning himself. He is a son and sons have beginnings.Hey Nick! You say Jesus the Word had a beginning! This is where I end this convsation. if you dont even believe in the eternal nature of Jesus never having a beginning! No need to carry on!
Bless you!
Keith
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