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Hi T8,
Sorry but I find your response to be another lie.
You said –
“I do not have an opinion nor understand the meanings of these words”
That is obviously a lie, do you expect anyone here to believe that you do not understand the meaning of monotheism or polytheism?
That is ridiculous.
If you don’t have an opinion about it why are you so adamant that you are not a polytheist.?
You say that you are not interested in the meanings of words, how convenient for you to say that now when it is becoming embarrassing for you, but before you were very much interested in the meanings of words.
Page 4 of your document about the trinity is in fact titled “True meaning of the word god”
On that page we find –
“Below are the possible meanings of the word ‘theos’.
1)a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2) the Godhead
3) spoken of the only and true God
3a) refers to the things of God
3b) his counsels, interests, things due to him
4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
4a) God’s representative or viceregent
4a1) of magistrates and judges “But of course you are not interested in the meanings of words.
On page 5 we find –
“"In the beginning was the Word" is "arche" and this word means the following:
1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons “and –
“The word in the Hebrew used here is "El" and this word means the following:
1)god, godlike one, mighty one
1a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
1b) angels
1c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
1d) God, the one true God, Jehovah
2) mighty things in nature
3) strength, power “and –
“Now the word Godhead or Deity means "divinity" according to the Strong’s Concordance. The word "divinity" has a different meaning to the phrase "The Divine". One refers to a person the other is an adjective and refers to a quality/nature”
and-
“"According to Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, theotes (the nominative form, from which theotetos is derived) means "divinity, divine nature. Being truly "divinity," or "divine nature,"”
and –
“The word "equal" in this verse is the Greek word "isos" which can mean
·similar in amount Or kind
·agree
·equal
·like “But no, you are not interested in meanings of words.
And on page 23 of this thread you stated in a reply –
“So I think the answer is in the difference in meanings of the words "yeild/give" and the word "share".”
And you are happy to provide a definition of the word Apostacy –
“Apostasy: apostasia {ap-os-tas-ee’-ah}
to forsake, falling away, a falling away, defection, apostasy
feminine version of the word apostasion.Apostasion: divorce, repudiation, a bill of divorce .”
and on page 28 you are happy to provide a definition of the word “head” –
“The word HEAD means source/master and this is consistent with the Man being the source of the Woman (Eve from Adam) and with Christ being our source”
and on page 32 you are happy to give a meaning to the word “equal” –
“To be equal to something means that you are not that thing, rather you are like it.”
And on page 33 you accept that examining the meanings of words is a good thing –
“Your advice on discovering what the Logos means seems good to me.”
And on page 34 when you incorrectly tried to assert that God is not a class of being you discussed the meaning of the word class –
“The word class is classification and we use it to group together likeness within created things.”
I could go on but the point is made.
Everyone can see that your reasons for not giving the meanings of these words are false.
Why then should we respect your reason on this?
Your assumption that it is “reasonable” is laughable.
I also find it amusing that although you claim not to have had time to answer any of my Biblical arguments on the Trinity, you have had time to comprehensively update your anti Trinitarian document, even including information which I have proven to be false in my previous posts.
And although you accepted before that the information contained in that document about the Council of Nicea was inaccurate and said you would update it none of it has been updated.
I am doubting whether you are really interested in a genuine search for the truth, it seems to me that you are only interested in promoting your own agenda.
Anyway, since you refuse to continue discussing your polytheism, I will start another thread on that topic to leave you free to answering my many unanswered Biblical Arguments on the Trinity in this thread, but I do not have much hope that you will actually do so.
Be Well.
(Edited by global at 1:36 pm on Nov. 20, 2003)
Global,
Your quotes are in gray.
Of course I am interested in the meaning of words, but I repeat that I am not interested in the labels that man made religion uses to classify men. E.g heresy is not a biblical word and yet those who adhere to the meaning of that word and it's prejudice are often wrong. I am wise to steer clear of such things, but you have the choice to accept them if you want, but you cannot force feed others with what you have taken on board.
You quote scriptures and show that I have shown meanings to certain words. Well Global that just proves that I stuck to scripture and studied it. This is what I am promoting; studying scripture, not creed nor labels.
Yes it is true that I said that I am not a Polytheist as I thought it meant that it acknowledged multiple Gods, not multiple gods as you say. So if you are correct in your meaning which I do not know, then it is better for me to stop using such words. In fact I had a conviction at the time that I shouldn't have used it when I did, so I believe that the Spirit was guiding me to not get involved in such things. Turned out that I should have listened. Better late than never however.
And although you accepted before that the information contained in that document about the Council of Nicea was inaccurate and said you would update it none of it has been updated.
So I am not perfect and anyway I never said when I would do it. I get the feeling that you are attacking me on this personal front because you have run out of ammo on the trinity debate regarding the questions I asked you earlier.
I am doubting whether you are really interested in a genuine search for the truth, it seems to me that you are only interested in promoting your own agenda.
Who is the one trying to stick to scripture and the subject of the Trinity in the bible. You are the one steering the conversation away. The one who wants truth is the one who will trust scripture over the traditions and labels of men.
Anyway, since you refuse to continue discussing your polytheism, I will start another thread on that topic to leave you free to answering my many unanswered Biblical Arguments on the Trinity in this thread, but I do not have much hope that you will actually do so.
You are free to start another thread on that subject, in fact that is more appropriate. Also you complain that I haven't answered your earlier threads. Well I said to you earlier that I can do 1 thing at a time and for that reason I was not going to defend the truth that the Father is the one true God on 2 fronts as it would lessen my focus and impact. I even made a few requests that we stop and concentrate on your biblical posts and you concentrate on the 2 questions I asked.
Now calling me a liar is very unfair, but you will be judged to the same measure you have judged me and for the reason that you condemn me as a liar, I have defended that accusation with the truth, so where does that leave you if you are judged with the same measure?
E.g you say that I am not interested in the meanings of words when I made it clear that I was not interested in the meanings of certain words that are not scriptural, rather they have their root in the traditions of the organised so called churches. You misquoted me. So you either got it genuinely wrong of which I forgive you or you are the liar.
I would like to finish with a valuable lesson to all who read these posts.
We should never as true believers in God and followers of Christ, force anything onto anyone. If a man believes that eating meat is sin, then it is sin for him and as a believer we should respect that decision and not force that person to eat meat, so that person will not sin and have a clear conscience before God. For if we believe that something is sin, then it is sin for that person.
Now I as a person who values my faith in God, would rather not be too familiar with denominational church doctrine, so as to remain as pure and untainted as I can in order to read scripture without bias. Yet Global with no consideration to this truth is trying to get me to sin when I stated to him clearly my reasons for not participating. In addition he falsely accuses me and calls me a liar.
The same thing happened to Christ and will happen to all those who follow him. He was falsely accused because they could not find fault in him and so it will also be with those who choose a godly life in Christ.
1 Peter 3
16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.Ok Global,
I make another request that I debate your earlier posts and you answer my 2 questions to you. You said in your last post that you want me to answer your earlier posts, so I ask that we stop here and free me up to do that.
My 2 questions were as follows:
1) Please show me all or some scriptures that speak of the Most High God and then identifies that God as Jesus Christ.
2) What will be the future of redeemed men. We currently have human nature and we will be perfect in the next age. So will we still be men in the age to come, i.e partakers of human nature or will we be something else such as angels or gods? Remember we will be given a new body that cannot sin. Will it be flesh/human nature? Please explain if you know? If you do not know the answer then simply say so. I won’t condemn you for it. I just want to see how you understand human and divine nature. If you can back up your reasoning with scripture then that is good.Dear, Dear brothers T8 & Global,
Definition of Polytheist, let’s see, Poly means more than one and theos means god So Polytheist is one who believes in more than one God. How hard is this to humor a bloke and give the definition to him? But my word, Global, T8 is saying that he DOESN"T CARE FOR MEANINGS OF MAN’S WORDS, HE IS CONSTANTLY SEARCHING MEANING TO SCRIPTURAL WORDS. WHERE IS "POLYTHEIST" IN SCRIPTURE, OBVIOUSLY HE DOESN’T CARE WHAT OTHERS CALL HIM AND HE SURELY IS NOT WASTING HIS TIME DEFENDING HIMSELF TO MAN, HE ANSWERS TO GOD. (I.E. IF ONE WANTS TO CALL HIM A POLYTHEIST, HE LOOKS AT HIMSELF AND DECIDES WHETHER THAT’S TRUE, AND ANSWERS TO GOD FOR IT IF IT IS). who THE heck CARES?
??? YOU KNOW DARN WELL THAT T8 worships Yahweh and that is it!! QUIT BEING RIDICULOUS!! (both of you). Never, ever, ever has T8 said that in our restored state of SONSHIP (i.e. divine nature) that any of us will ever be worthy of worship. He worships one.You, dear Global, on the other hand, can’t get off of your kick of avoiding questions by distracting the conversations back to "are you a polytheist? Hm, are you are you are you." Goodness, NOOOOOOOOOO, he’s not. There. Now answer my questions as to "WHERE DO YOU EXPLAIN HOW YOU GET YOUR THEORY THAT JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE DIFFERENT PERSONS, BUT SAME GOD" AND I PRAY THERE IS SCRIPTURE TO BACK THIS UP!
HARUMPH TO BOTH OF YOU.
~~Sandi~~
"The pursuit of this spiritual birth is the only endeavor worthy of your time on this planet. Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you."
Thx for your post Sandi,
Your question: How hard is this to humor a bloke and give the definition to him?
I actually do not have the answer. I think as you do that it is a person that believes in many Gods as the word seems to be self explanitory, but Global hinted earlier that it means many gods. I am not sure if he is right or wrong, but I really do not care either and as you have said, I have stated what I believe, so if Global calls me a Heretic or a Vulcan I couldn't care. If Global uses scripture to either back up or show my beliefs to be error, then I do care.
If I start arguing using a word that was established by traditions of men, then I risk debating denominational church history and the ways that such a word was applied by certain scholars etc. A useless excercise and I can see the Devil in the details. (Sometimes the Devil gets us to run after white rabbits when more pressing needs are at hand). In addition certain words will invoke in the reader a positive or negative feeling due to it's incorrect or correct usage over the centuries by the traditions of men.
At least the scriptures provide a platform of truth to work from and we can all equally prove rightly or wrongly how certain words were used and how certain doctrine was reinforced, condemned or not taught.
Even Jesus faught the Devil with scripture. He didn't once (as far as I know) argue truth using tradition or the labels of men when establishing truth.
E.g. “The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
At that time there were suppose to be 2 schools of thought about divorce. One school said that you can divorce for any reason and the other said that you could divorce only under the death or fornication of one of the partners.
Jesus answer was not to say which one was right. Even Jesus avoided the labels and thoughts of men. Jesus used scripture as his answer and left it up to the hearers to judge for themselves which of the schools of thought were right, if any.
Now if Jesus had backed up one particular view and not used scripture in establishing truth, this could have lead to all kinds of undesirable consequences, such as endorsement for other things that this school of thinking teaches or even the endorsement for the reasoning for the development of this school of thinking, which could have been wrong.
I think that it was wise of Jesus not to use these schools of though or labels to reinforce truth and I myself wanting to be like him in every way can see his wisdom and I will follow his example. That is why I say “It is written”.
I do believe in Divine revelation, but it must agree with scripture.
Colossians 2
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.BTW Global,
Do I have your agreement on you giving me time to anwser your earlier posts and you answering my 2 questions?
Thank you, T8, I agree. The scripture "seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you., Matthew 6:33" Is very profound. It is saying if all you do, is put the pursuit of His kingdom and His righteousness as your only pursuit, all of your needs will be met. "there is no other endeavor worthy of our time."
Take care, Sandi
To T8 and Sandi,
T8: I said that I would answer your questions if you explained why you thought your beliefs differ from polytheism, and you have refused to do so.
Also if I answer them it will encourage you to reply and further distract you from answering my Biblical arguments.
I will start a new thread enitled "How many divinities are there?". If you wish to participate in the new thread, I may answer your questions there if I feel you are going to fairly reciprocate with answers of your own.
To Sandi:
Hi, the information you are looking for is contained in all my answers to T8 contained in this thread, starting I believe around page 26.
Regarding the definition of polytheism I do not believe it was ridiculous for me to ask for it since T8 seems to have a different definition of the word than the normal meaning. He does indeed believe in many Gods since he has stated his belief in many true divinities.
The uncapitalised word gods in the Bible is used to denote non-divine beings so it is not true to say that T8 believes in many gods, but many Gods (as stated previously how many of these he worships is irrelevant).
Please look out for my new thread on this which I will start shortly.
Be Well.
Global,
I have just read your scriptures that you believe enforce that the Father, Son, and Holy spirit as being one God. Indeed, each scripture you gave, and each account of Christians A.D. until 100 A.D. (Barnabas, Hermas) ALL, every single scripture, actually SEPARATES the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It is so blatant. I am not sure where you got your belief that Isaiah 48:16 translates "me" as YHWH. EVERY SINGLE COMMENTARY I"VE READ, calls the sender YHWH, and me as either the giver of the prophesy or indeed the Messiah. Either way, it does NOT translate to YHWH!! That is a false translation! (refer to Hebrew word for me in that passage. Also, Barne’s, Adam Clarke’s, Wycliffe, Holman’s, Jameisson faucet and brown, etc. commentary’s).
I really need to know where the Son or Spirit are ever referred to as YHWH? That is basically what I"m looking for. I.E., scriptural proof that the Son and Spirit are YHWH?? When I say, "By witness of T8, Global, and Sandi" I am clearly speaking of three separate witnesses (where 2 or 3 are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them, Matthew 2:18) and this is the reason for the pattern throughout the New Testament (58 that you list) of the three, Father Son Holy spirit, as a whole witness to Jesus Christ and what and who he is and represents. If these were indeed one, it wouldn’t be a whole witness (where 2 or 3 are gathered).
You also kept referring to the "Arians" dis-belief of Jesus being YHWH, as similar to the Jews dis-belief. Like I said before, God is calling me to search this out and this is all new to me. But what an insult. The Jews do not believe that Jesus was God’s Son, or that salvation comes through Jesus, how can you compare the two?
(Acts 16:31 "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and ye shall be saved." 1Corinthians 16:22 "if any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema marantha[excommunicated from divine judgment]." Acts 15:11 "but we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved, even as they." 1 cor 10:17 "for we being many, are one bread and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread." John 15:7 "if ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will and it shall be done unto you." etc. etc.) So you are, indeed, our brother whether you like it or not. But to compare a brother, to one who denounces your Lord, Jesus Christ, is not a good thing!Scripture definitely separates God, Son, Spirit, but you say that this verifies them being one? That’s what I need scripture for.
I once told someone on this site, that Jn 1:14 is a description of the Word (God) becoming flesh (in Jesus) and dwelling among us. To say that would be the same as saying that the ten commandments (the word written in stone) was God, and we should be worshipping those tablets. The old testament is a witness of the word’s nature through oral representation, the new testament is a witness of the word’s nature by living (flesh) representation…all a witness of the divine nature…NOT!! the divine One Himself (but His NATURE, through His law and then His Son).
Hope this helps understanding.
God Speed.
SandiP.S. In the last above paragraph I forgot to add a sentence in between "became flesh (through Jesus) and dwealt among us." and "to say that would be the same as saying the ten commandments…."
The missing line is: " Most translate this as Jn 1:14 says that Jesus is God but,……."
Hi Sandi, I think you are reading the wrong posts, I dont recognise those comments as being mine.
Look for my posts headed Biblical arguments.
By the way, I havent dealt much with the Holy Spirit yet, but this of course raises a whole new set of problems for T8 as he hasnt said at all how he reconciles the divinity of the Holy Spirit in his scheme of things, but I will refrain from posting about that until he responds to the previous points.
I read your thesis on the Trinity. If Yahsua is not God
then who is He? Is He Deity? Did He pre-exist before
His birth? You quote scipture that says no man has seen God at any time. Yet you also quote scripure
that Yahshua has seen the Father. If He were just a
man how could the scripture that No man has ever seen God be true? He must be more than a man for it to be
true.Hi Clemam,
is your question addressed to T8?
T8 believes that Jesus is Divine, but is not the same Divinity as the Father.
He also believes that Jesus did not exist before being begat by God.
I have already pointed out to T8 that –
1) belief in more than one divinity is polytheism. T8 denies he is a polytheist, but has refused to explain why. Therefore we have abandoned that topic in this thread.
2)I have made T8 aware of several scriptures which indicate Jesus is eternal and had no starting point to his existence. So far T8 has been unable to explain this.
Be Well.
Proverbs:8,20 onward gives Christs acount of his being
Gods son and seperate as an entity,as being a witness
to gods creation of the Earth,also note that posessed is likely owened,by god as he is at his feet and before him as a child growing and learning.also Rev:22,8 on Jesus tells John to worship God. if i choose to worship jesus i will if i choose to worship Jehovah i will,if i choose to worship Gabrill i will it is all the matter in what i say i put my individual faith in.some worship Satan but as for me Exo 20:1Quote Quote: from clemam on 11:02 am on Dec. 6, 2003
I read your thesis on the Trinity. If Yahsua is not God
then who is He? Is He Deity? Did He pre-exist before
His birth? You quote scipture that says no man has seen God at any time. Yet you also quote scripure
that Yahshua has seen the Father. If He were just a
man how could the scripture that No man has ever seen God be true? He must be more than a man for it to be
true.Hi clemam,
Yeshua/Jesus is the Logos. He was also known as the Son before he came to earth as a man. The Logos came from God. The Logos was in the beginning with God.
Many also believe that Jesus is the Wisdom of God and if so, then he was given birth. This makes a lot of sense because Jesus must be called the Son of God for a reason and Jesus always preached that his Father was greater than himself. Never once did he dishonor his God by saying that he was God.
At the end of the day it is up to us who we choose to believe and what we believe. I choose to believe that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God. I have built my faith on this foundation. I believe it is the central truth to all the scripture.
Other philosophies come from the Father of Lies and he tries to hide that truth because it is the foundation of the Church and is a necessary belief in order to be set free.
Quote Quote: from global on 6:53 am on Dec. 10, 2003
Hi Clemam,is your question addressed to T8?
T8 believes that Jesus is Divine, but is not the same Divinity as the Father.
He also believes that Jesus did not exist before being begat by God.
I have already pointed out to T8 that –
1) belief in more than one divinity is polytheism. T8 denies he is a polytheist, but has refused to explain why. Therefore we have abandoned that topic in this thread.
2)I have made T8 aware of several scriptures which indicate Jesus is eternal and had no starting point to his existence. So far T8 has been unable to explain this.
Be Well.
Um Global,
1) What part of there is one God in identity and many others who share in the nature of God do you not understand? You have a big problem with understanding the difference between identity and nature as most Trinitarians do. This is where you trip yourself up.
2) Show me 3 verses that prove that Christ has lived as long as the Father and we can examine what those scriptures really mean. I will start with 3 that show that he isn't as old as his Father.
Hebrews 1:5-6 (English-NIV)
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”Proverbs 8:22-30 (English-NIV)
22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, {[22] Or ; or } {[22] Or ; or } before his deeds of old;
23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,Colossians 1:12-16 (English-NIV)
12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light.
13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.You know if it wasn't such a serious subject it would actually be funny, because the word 'Son' by it's very definition means that there must be a 'Father' or originator. If the Father and Son were equal and existed together for all eternity, then you would surely have 2 Fathers or at least 2 Gods. The Father-Son idea would be the wrong model to use in describing the relationship between God and the Word/Logos if they were equal and existed for eternity together.
We must acknowledge that there is one God not 2 or 3, yet the Trinity doctrine is an insult to the simplistic meaning and idea behind the Father and Son concept. Instead many have been brainwashed into not asking or questioning the obvious.
It is usually young children or young Christians who question the Trinity Doctrine while trying to reconcile their understanding of the Father and Son concept.
I have even heard many times from their mouths the following:
How can God take a human body and be the Son of God and then the Son of God prays to God and yet be that God as well. Or how can the Son pray to God and be God as well…
The young are usually innocent and can think clearer because they are not yet immersed in the distortion of false doctrine. To them (and to all who are not brainwashed into that doctrine or under the Babylonian Spirit); they can see how clearly silly it really is. They can see that the Emperor has no clothes on.
A similar situation is found with the Theory of Evolution. Many so-called enlightened people believe that their ancestors were apes. When many first hear of the theory though, their first thought is that the doctrine is very weird and almost silly, but after a while and through constant teaching whilst looking at the acceptance of that doctrine by others, many just accept it. Then later when they are challenged on the doctrine, it is usual that they defend it with all their pride. Of course not all of us are under that particular Spirit, but many are.
I think that the Trinity Doctrine is a deception and curse for those who believe in God, but do not seek after the truth with all their hearts. In the same way, the Theory of Evolution is a deception for those who do not believe in God.
Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:Hi Sigma,
Welcome to this discussion. I hope and pray that it will assist in your search for truth in all things.
To Global,
I will reply your earlier posts soon.
My girlfriend is JW — I am Mennonite. I’ve been raised to believe in the trinity — she has been raised to reject the notion of the trinity. After careful review of the scriptures, I’ve not found any requirement that my (or her) salvation is dependant on belief or disbelief in the trinity. However, belief that Jesus died for our sins and is the perfect sacrifice and our "ticket" so to speak to be with God forever is critically important. Why then do we argue about something which has little or no significance in the whole scheme of things??? Just thought I’d ask.
Hi Agritrak,
thx for your post.
Yes I agree that the Trinity doctrine has nothing to do with Salvation or lack of it, but the problem is that many Trinitarians make it a problem by insisting that it is the foundation of the Christian Faith when it is clear from scripture that it is not. They also insist for some strange reason that a person who does not believe that Jesus is God is AntiChrist and a Deceiver.This sad state of affairs goes back to the days of Athanasius and Arius and the decree of the Roman Emperor to kill anyone who was found with Arius's writings or taught his teaching.
In addition to this, I would have to say that it is also important to establish the true foundation of the Church which is the truth that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Messiah.
We are told in 2 Corinthians 10:5 the following:
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.The Devil is called the Father of Lies and exposing his lies brings down his strongholds over the people.
When Jesus faught with the Devil after fasting for 40 days, his defence was scripture. “It is written…..”.
To Global,
Your quote “T8 believes that Jesus is Divine, but is not the same Divinity as the Father.” is incorrect.
I believe that Jesus has the same divine nature as his Father, but Jesus is not the Divine in identity. In other words Jesus is not the source of that nature, rather the Father is, as the Father is the Divine in identity and shares his nature with his Son and also to the Sons of God.
In addition to that, I also believe that God became a Father when he begat a Son. So Jesus is called the Son because he has an origin and that origin is his Father. This should be easy to understand as the words son and Father today have the same meaning.
I hope this is clear enough.
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