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Quote (Oxy @ Oct. 24 2006,17:48)
Personally I think that there are several different interpretations of the word trinity. As far as some are concerned, it seems to mean that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are co-equal etc. I do not buy into this.To me, trinity is just a word that means 3 united.
The Father is YHWH God Almighty.
The Son is Yashua, The Word of God, restored to His former glory ie with God and is God.
The Holy Spirit is the power and revelation of God in our lives.The three are one. There is a word to describe this concept. The word is trinity. Get over it.
But God is one and scripture says that there is one God the Father. It never says that God is triune. That interpretation was added centuries later.Can you get over the fact that God is one and not triune, or is it a stumbling block for you?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2006,23:42) When you cant explain a thing, this is how you respond!.God forbid that I should boast but in my defence , I have been a believer in Christ since 1974 and have Been to 3 Bible colleges! Pioneered and Pastored 2 Churches and have been in involved in Evangelism for 32 years! And spent thousands of hours studying the word! What kind of training or experience do you have Nick? What is your back ground My friend!
Hi WMe? I am an ignorant, untrained, self taught lover and student of, the bible. I have never been to bible college or begun or pastored any churches.
It has maybe helped to keep my mind uncluttered by the babble of men's voices, and to focus on what God teaches through His Word.
But you may disagree and that is your perogative.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 24 2006,00:57) Quote (Oxy @ Oct. 24 2006,17:48)
Personally I think that there are several different interpretations of the word trinity. As far as some are concerned, it seems to mean that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are co-equal etc. I do not buy into this.To me, trinity is just a word that means 3 united.
The Father is YHWH God Almighty.
The Son is Yashua, The Word of God, restored to His former glory ie with God and is God.
The Holy Spirit is the power and revelation of God in our lives.The three are one. There is a word to describe this concept. The word is trinity. Get over it.
But God is one and scripture says that there is one God the Father. It never says that God is triune. That interpretation was added centuries later.Can you get over the fact that God is one and not triune, or is it a stumbling block for you?
Yep, God is one, but Jesus said that He and the Father were one.Quote (Oxy @ Oct. 24 2006,02:16) Yep, God is one, but Jesus said that He and the Father were one. Hi Oxy,
Yes and we too are to be one as they are,
but that does not make us God too does it?Jn 17
“21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 23 2006,23:16) Hi w,
You say
“You insult my intelligence..”
Sorry but the Word of God often does that because it was written for the simple and so that mere children could come to Christ. The wiser we are the more difficult it is to become as a child but that is the way of Christ, the stumbling stone.
Nick, once again you call Scripture the Word of God, but Scripture clearly points out that there is only ONE Word (logos) of God. He is called Jesus!If you call the Bible the Word of God, Scripture points to itself, but if Jesus is the Word of God, then Scripture points to Him. This makes a HUGE difference!
Foe example, Scripture says the the Word dwells richly within us. Is that the Bible or Jesus? The obvious answer is that it is Jesus.
The Word of God is LIVING and POWERFUL. Is this the Bible or Jesus? Obviously the Bible isn't living, so it must be Jesus.
God said My Word will not return unto me void. Was He talking about the Bible or Jesus? Obviously Jesus, because only Jesus gives us salvation.
I could go on…….
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 23 2006,22:58) Hi W,
Well for us there is One God.1Cor 8
“6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”So no confusion FOR US.
How can you be in Christ and yet worshiping Christ?
Does a branch worship the vine or together do they serve the Gardener?
Does the toe worship the head?
Do you not see that to worship the Son honours God the Father? Hasn't the Father honoured the Son above all?The relationship I have with YHWH is that of a son to a Father.
The relationship I have with Yashua is that He is my Saviour and Lord of all.
It is right to honour and worship both, because to deny one is to deny the other also.
Hi Oxy,
And how do you do it?
Walking along the street you sometimes see church signs like“Come and worship Jesus here”
How do you feel about this ?
Is this what God wants?If men hold to trinity belief should not someone, somewhere say
“Come and worship the trinity here”
Quote (Oxy @ Oct. 24 2006,21:16) Yep, God is one, but Jesus said that He and the Father were one.
Oh so that makes Jesus God?Given that reasoning we are God too because Jesus prayed that just as he was one with the Father, that we would also be one and one with them.
In addition, Paul says that we will participate in divine nature.So now we have not 3 but millions.
The doctrine of the Millinity?
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 24 2006,03:46) Quote (Oxy @ Oct. 24 2006,21:16) Yep, God is one, but Jesus said that He and the Father were one.
Oh so that makes Jesus God?Given that reasoning we are God too because Jesus prayed that just as he was one with the Father, that we would also be one and one with them.
In addition, Paul says that we will participate in divine nature.So now we have not 3 but millions.
The doctrine of the Millinity?
You're starting to catch onQuote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 24 2006,02:36) Hi Oxy,
And how do you do it?
Walking along the street you sometimes see church signs like“Come and worship Jesus here”
How do you feel about this ?
Is this what God wants?If men hold to trinity belief should not someone, somewhere say
“Come and worship the trinity here”
Your arguments are kinda thin and pointless Nick.Guy who worships Jesus, i would recommend you worship God. This is what Jesus said to do. At the very least, you could change your name to WorshipGod. Because we know we are to worship God.
Quote proskuneo {pros-koo-neh'-o} Greek Means to:
1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2) among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3) in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
a) used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
1) to the Jewish high priests
2) to God
3) to Christ
4) to heavenly beings
5) to demonsNick the same Greek word is used wherever the word worship is found including the worship of the beast!
However you can not find one scripture where this word was used toward a man or a man of God where it was not corrected! Jesus only received this kind of worship and honor!
Can't you?
MATTHEW 18:26
“Therefore the slave fell down and began to do obeisance [proskyneo] to him, saying, ‘Be patient with me and I will pay back everything to you.’”In Jesus illustration, was Jesus saying that the slave worshipped the king?
If we look in the Septuagint (Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures) at 1 Kings 1:23 we see “proskyneo” used of the prophet Nathan’s action on approaching King David.
King David was a man of God, as you say. There was no correction.
When looking at this subject, we really do have to wipe away pre-conceived ideas and not look at what our Bible says but look at what the original language said at all the places where that word and it's Hebrew equivalent were used.
Quote Jesus only received this kind of worship and honor!
Well, no, there are scriptures that speak of God alone being rendered sacred service. We are told to worship the Father. As well, that word is applied in Jesus illustration to a human king and it's equivalent is applied to all kinds of people.
There is no question that Jehovah God is worthy of worship. And that word is applied to Him. But the question is of Jesus. When that word comes in connection with Jesus, how should it be translated?Based soley on what Jesus said, I think the answer is clear:
“Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship [form of Gr. pro·sky·ne′o or, in the Deuteronomy account that Jesus was quoting, Heb. hish·ta·chawah′], and it is to him alone you must render sacred service [form of Gr. la·treu′o or Heb. ‛a·vadh′].’” (Mt 4:10; De 5:9; 6:13)
Quote (Oxy @ Oct. 23 2006,09:32) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 23 2006,08:54) I haven't been here for a while. But I can see at first glance that Oxy is still believing and teaching the false doctrine of the Trinity. We will all come out of her eventually, but if we are led by the Spirit, I am sure that we would be led out of her before she is judged.
God warns his people before judgement and in the Book of Revelation he gave a warning to his people.
Revelation 18:4
Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;The original Babylon was judged for her false gods. The Babylonian Trinity included.
lol nice to see you t8. You haven't changed a bit! Actually, I've just arrived back after being at a more truthful forum.
Hi Oxy, nice to see you again (or at least your written words). Im curious, what's the URL for the forum that you came from?Blessings
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 24 2006,03:46) Quote (Oxy @ Oct. 24 2006,21:16) Yep, God is one, but Jesus said that He and the Father were one.
Oh so that makes Jesus God?Given that reasoning we are God too because Jesus prayed that just as he was one with the Father, that we would also be one and one with them.
In addition, Paul says that we will participate in divine nature.So now we have not 3 but millions.
The doctrine of the Millinity?
Hi t8, most christians believe in the existence of only ONE divine being….Mormons, hindus and pagans believe in more than one…but, in contrast, christians are monotheistic. Monotheism is a clearly taught biblical precept and a fundamental tenet of the faith…and not a difficult one to understand…Only one God t8…one.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 24 2006,05:56) Hi Oxy,
That is one kind of response but all I can do is hope to make people think more deeply.
Ahhh, so now I don't think deeply!Nick, I have told you before that I am no theologian, but I do have the Holy Spirit who teaches me and guides me. He has revealed truths to me by revelation and through Scripture over the last 28 years. As the Holy Spirit has revealed truth to me He has backed up the revelation I have been given by taking me into Scripture time and time again to reaffirm that which He (the Holy Spirit) has shown me.
I am totally satisfied with the understanding I have and unless the Holy Spirit teaches me otherwise (and I am very open to this) I will stand by what I believe whole heartedly.
When I have asked the Lord about the doctrine you teach He has reaffirmed to me the truth as I know it, using your arguments to highlight this truth.
You blatantly insist that everyone that does not adhere to your doctrine is deceived, which I suppose is natural, but you notoriously fail to respond to positive argument supporting the fact that God consists of Almighty God, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit.
You have most likely noticed that I have changed my comment at the bottom of my posts. I have done this because I (as written) embrace and enjoy my relationship with Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Each relationship is meaningful and purposeful to me and one without the other would be incomplete. If this were not the case, why does Scripture show us, along with experience, that this is so??
Can I suggest that if you are wrong (and I don't expect you to admit or even consider this for one moment) then you will be held accountable for the deception you embrace.
Many people have tried to show you the Way more correctly, but you consistently twist what people tell you into something that was not said at all and fail to respond to Scriptural evidence that does not agree with your doctrine.
I pray that you will carefully consider that which I have said, because it comes from the heart, not in such a way as to put you down, but in hope that you will seek God rather than the wisdom of man to find answers that God can show you, rather than those that are contrary to the teaching of the Holy Spirit.
Hi Oxy,
Your views do not match any others I have heard here so what is this unity you claim? Your doctrines are unique to you and thus you are the only one right or???Quote (Adam Pastor @ Oct. 23 2006,14:59) Is 1:18, I hope the above helps to clarify things.
It helps clarify your position, yes. I'm also familiar with the Law of agency too, but thanks anyway for the detailed explanation. A question for you Adam Pastor: Can you show me verse in scripture where a person other than the Father, Son or Spirit is explicitly (not inferentially) assigned the tetragammaton, YHWH, to identify them?….
Blessings
Is 1:18Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 24 2006,07:48) Quote (Adam Pastor @ Oct. 23 2006,14:59) Is 1:18, I hope the above helps to clarify things.
It helps clarify your position, yes. I'm also familiar with the Law of agency too, but thanks anyway for the detailed explanation. A question for you Adam Pastor: Can you show me verse in scripture where a person other than the Father, Son or Spirit is explicitly (not inferentially) assigned the tetragammaton, YHWH, to identify them?…. Blessings
Is 1:18
….because if you could produce one, then you theory would have to be taken seriously….Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 24 2006,07:43) Hi Oxy,
Your views do not match any others I have heard here so what is this unity you claim? Your doctrines are unique to you and thus you are the only one right or???
It seems you haven't been around much Nick, if you haven't heard the things I am saying before.My “doctrine” as you call it is not mine at all, but rather that which has been revealed to me by the Holy Spirit. He has, as I said before, taken me into Scripture to reaffirm that which He has shown me.
The funny thing is, when I became a Christian 28 years ago, the Lord led me to a church to fellowship in. It was a thriving Pentecostal church. I had never seen or heard of the Pentecostal movement before, so I saw demons everywhere and was convinced that they were in error.
When I got home I was determined in my heart to use the very Bible that they professed to live by, to show them the error of their ways.
As I started looking at Scripture the Holy Spirit said to me “Look, speaking in tongues” and then “Look, prophesying” and then continued to show me that Scripture was in fact being followed in that place. I could not argue with that, but aligned myself to the things the Lord had revealed to me. I continue to live that way.
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