The Trinity Doctrine

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18
Jn 12
” 34The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?

35Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

36While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

37But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

38That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. “

THEN

“41These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of HIM. “

HIM-God, not Jesus.
Isaiah saw the glory of God, the Lord of Hosts.
Jesus is never called the Lord of hosts and it is very commonly used of God, his God and Father.

Is 6
” 1In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

2Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

3And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.”

Jesus was the mouthpiece for God
not God himself.
He came in the flesh and died.
God did not.

[Is 1:18]

You haven't given me a reason why:

a) your assertion that the “Him” in John 12:41 is a reference to the Father is correct, or

b) my assertion that the “Him” in John 12:41 is the pre-incarnate Yahshua is incorrect.

Just postulating an interpretation doesn't make it true, you need to produce evidence….

Lets have some specifics….

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2006,09:58)

HIM-God, not Jesus. Isaiah saw the glory of God, the Lord of Hosts. Jesus is never called the Lord of hosts and it is very commonly used of God, his God and Father.

That is incorrect Yahshua is ascribed this title no less than four times in Zechariah 14:

Zechariah 14
1Behold, the day of the LORD [YHWH] cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD [YHWH] go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD [YHWH] my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD [YHWH], not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9And the LORD [YHWH] shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD [YHWH], and his name one.
10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD [YHWH] will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD [YHWH] shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD [YHWH] of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD [YHWH] of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD [YHWH] will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD [YHWH] of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD [YHWH] of hosts.

The person described as YHWH in Zechariah chapter 14, below, could only be Yahshua. Here is why:

In Acts 1:11 we are told that Yahshua will return in “just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven”.

Acts 1:9-11
9And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.” 12Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey away.

Yahshua ascended from the Mt of Olives and He will return there, as described in Zechariah 14:4. The Father is not going to stand on the Mt of Olives, Yahshua is. As I understand the Bible (and I welcome correction on this):

1.Nowhere in NT Scripture are we told that the Father will come to Earth in the role of punisher, sit on the throne of David in Jerusalem and sovereignly reign from Jerusalem.

2.The NT and OT categorically affirm that Yahshua will come to Earth in the role of punisher, defeat His enemies, Judge the nations and sit on the throne of David in Jerusalem and sovereignly reign from Jerusalem.

Here is my evidence for those assertions:

Yahshua declared He is coming again:

Matthew 24:30
30″And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. (cf. Matt 16:27, 24:37; Mark 8:38, 13:26; Luke 21:27)

And;

Revelation 3:11
11I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

And;

Revelation 22:7
7″And behold, I am coming quickly Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book.”

And;

Revelation 22:12
“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

And;

Revelation 22:20
He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly ” Amen Come, Lord Jesus.

The apostles, of course, were expecting and prophesied Yahshua’s return:

Matthew 24:3
3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

And;

1 Thessalonians 3:13
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

And;

1 Timothy 6:14
That you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ

And;

2 Timothy 1:10
10but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

And;

2 Timothy 4:1
1I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

And;

2 Timothy 4:8
8in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing

And;

Titus 2:13-14
13looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

And;

Revelation 1:7
 7BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

When Yahshua does come He will come in the role as punisher/averger:

Zechariah 14:12
12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD [YHWH] will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Cf.

2 Thessalonians 2:8
8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

And;

Revelation 2:16
16'Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth.

And;

Revelation 17:14
14″These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.”

And;

Revelation 19:15
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

(Compare Rev 2:16 and 19:15 with Isa 11:4)

He (YHWH = Yahshua) will come with His saints:

Zechariah 14:5
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD [YHWH] my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Cf;

1 Thessalonians 3:13
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

And;

Jude 1
14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints

And;

Revelation 19:13-14
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

After which Yahshua that will rule the nations from Jerusalem:

Zechariah 14:9, 16-17
9And the LORD [YHWH] shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD [YHWH], and his name one….16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD [YHWH] of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD [YHWH] of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Cf.

Isaiah 24:23
 23Then the moon will be abashed and the sun ashamed, For the LORD of hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, And His glory will be before His elders.

And;

Daniel 7:13-14
13″I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven one like a Son of Man was coming, and He came up to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him. 14″And to Him was given dominion, glory and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations and men of every language might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which will not pass away; and His kingdom is one which will not be destroyed.

And;

Daniel 7:27
27'Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.'

(Yahshua is designated Elyon in several times in the Daniel 7 passage, this is unmistakably a divine name and means the supreme:

From Strongs:
H5946
Elyon
(Chaldee); corresponding to H5945; the supreme: – Most high.)

And;

Joel 3:17
17Then you will know that I am the LORD your God, Dwelling in Zion, My holy mountain so Jerusalem will be holy, And strangers will pass through it no more.

And;

Micah 4:7
 7″I will make the lame a remnant; And the outcasts a strong nation, And the LORD will reign over them in Mount Zion; From now on and forever.

And;

2 Timothy 2:10-12
10For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory. 11It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; 12If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

And;

Revelation 12:5
5And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

And;

Revelation 20:4
4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

He will do this from the throne of David (an earthly throne), which His Father will establish:

2 Samuel 7:12-13
12″When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.13″He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

And;

Isaiah 9:6-7
6For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness

And;

Isaiah 16:5
5 A throne will even be established in lovingkindness, And a judge will sit on it in faithfulness in the tent of David; Moreover, he will seek justice And be prompt in righteousness

And;

Luke 1:32
32″He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.”

And;

Matthew 19:28
28And Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

(We know that the Judgement will occur on Earth – 'Let the nations be roused; let them advance into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side – Joel 3:1, 9-12)

So, the summation says: The Zechariah 14 narrative could only be prophetic of Yahshua’s second coming, battle, and sovereign reign from the throne of David in Jerusalem. This is entirely consistent with the eschatological data relevant to these events. Yahshua is explicitly called YHWH in Zechariah 14: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21, and identified as “YHWH of Hosts” in vss 16, 17 and 21 (twice). The Bible would not ascribe this divine name to someone who is not YHWH. Yahshua is YHWH.

Blessings

[NickHassan]

Hi Is,
Yahshua is eternally a vessel for His Father from the Jordan.
Thus he said those who saw him saw the Father.
The vessel is not the contents.

IN HIM was the fullness of Deity eternally so that where he stands on his return stands the Father.

[Ray Foster]

Great topic – great discussion

I believe:
1.God says what He means and means what He says in Scripture.
2. Jesus is the Son of God; Jesus had a beginning being begotten of God before anything was created.
3. Jesus is both fully man (being born of a virgin, Mary by name) and fully God (being begotten of God and inheriting the life of God – eternal, underived, unborrowed life).
4. There is salvation through faith in no other name than Jesus, the Son of God.

Thanks for a great forum

Ray Foster

[NickHassan]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 22 2006,10:07)

You haven't given me a reason why: a) your assertion that the “Him” in John 12:41 is a reference to the Father is correct, or b) my assertion that the “Him” in John 12:41 is the pre-incarnate Yahshua is incorrect. Just postulating an interpretation doesn't make it true, you need to produce evidence…. Lets have some specifics….

Hi Is 1.18,
God is the Lord of Hosts.
God has a son.

Prov 30
” 3I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy.

4Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? “
Heaven is God's throne and earth, where the throne of the Son is, His footstool.
Isaiah 66:1
This is what the LORD says: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be?
Jeremiah 33:17
For this is what the LORD says: 'David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,
Ps 2
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
Psalm 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple; the LORD is on his heavenly throne. He observes the sons of men; his eyes examine them.
Psalm 47:8
God reigns over the nations; God is seated on his holy throne
Psalm 103:19
The LORD has established his throne in heaven, and his kingdom rules over all.

The gospel is the gospel of the kingdom and the anointed King rules his kingdom on earth because he is the meek Son of Man and earth is his inheritance. God in Him dwells among men and the throne is the throne of God and the lamb.

Rev 22
” 1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

6And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. “

[NickHassan]

Hi and welcome Ray,
Saying Jesus is
“fully God (being begotten of God and inheriting the life of God – eternal, underived, unborrowed life).”
suggests one can be partially God?
Of what did the Word empty himself to become alike to us in all ways except sin as we are not
“fully God” ?

Is it not rather that God was IN the emptied vessel of divine origins?

2Cor 5
” 19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.”
Col 2.19
” 9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

Else we cannot follow him.

[Oxy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2006,04:21)

Hi Oxy, If you were presented with a bible which you never knew of and read it would you find a trinity expressed there? Or do you grasp this concept because it has been presented to you and seems logical. We have no right to teach what the bible does not teach, and it does not TEACH of a trinity. A lot of the logic aligned with trinity theory is about as flawed as going to a port to travel by sea to another country and finding no boat waiting for us we accept the offer of buying some train tickets.  If something is not written and we cannot quite grasp it we must wait till that understanding comes and not built our own constructs from outside the bible to explain it lest they be found offensive by Him that they concern.

Hi Nick, your argument would probably stack up if the Bible contained all there was to know about God, but it doesn't.

Joh 21:25 And there are also many things, whatever Jesus did, which, if they should be written singly, I suppose the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

Why would we need the Holy Spirit to teach us and guide us into ALL truth if the Bible contained it all?

The Bible is indeed given to us by God, but as you well know, it is interpreted differently by different people, hence the need for the Holy Spirit, because as it says in Scripture Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.

He is the Holy Spirit. Not God the Father, not Jesus, He is the person of the Holy Spirit. He will make known whatever He hears. This is NOT limited to what is contained in Scripture!

[Is 1:18]

Quote

I did. You are welcome to address the key points, which are. 1. In Isaiah 6:1-10 the prophet Isaiah recorded an experience where he saw, heard and interacted with the YHWH of Hosts, sitting on His throne. 2. John tells us, in John 12:37-41, that it was in fact the pre-incarnate Yahshua that Isaiah saw, heard and interacted with. 3. Yahshua is clearly identified at the subject of John's passage, in v37. 4. Isaiah had seen the glory of YHWH, but John wites that Isaiah had seen the glory of the pre-incarnate Logos, therefore logically Yahshua is YHWH. Dealing strictly with the two narratives, which of these points are wrong?, and why?

still waiting….

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18

“3. Yahshua is clearly identified at the subject of John's passage, in v37.”

Not so IMHO

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2006,18:26)

Hi Is, Yahshua is eternally a vessel for His Father from the Jordan. Thus he said those who saw him saw the Father. The vessel is not the contents. IN HIM was the fullness of Deity eternally so that where he stands on his return stands the Father.

Colossians 2:9
For in Him all the fullness of Deity [Gr. theotes] dwells in bodily form

– How would you define “theotes”?
– Why is this Greek word only ever used of Yahshua?

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2006,21:05)

Hi Is 1.18 “3. Yahshua is clearly identified at the subject of John's passage, in v37.” Not so IMHO

Quote

Dealing strictly with the two narratives, which of these points are wrong?, and why?

[NickHassan]

Hi Oxy
You say
“Why would we need the Holy Spirit to teach us and guide us into ALL truth if the Bible contained it all?”
So there is no limit to the truth that we can know,
and no measure for the veracity of that information
except our opinion?

This has led to men following men into the swamps of vain speculation.

Jn 16
” 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”

The Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but reveals the Word.

“15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. “

He will testify of Jesus
Jn 15
“26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: “

Reminding us of scripture
Jn 14
” 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

Therein is safety.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2006,18:44)

The gospel is the gospel of the kingdom and the anointed King rules his kingdom on earth because he is the meek Son of Man and earth is his inheritance. God in Him dwells among men and the throne is the throne of God and the lamb.

Yes, and the Spirit of God indwells all saved men, YET no man other than Yahshua is ascribed the divine name YHWH in the Bible. Why is Peter not called YHWH – he was indwelt by God, or Paul…..

Puts a very big hole in your theory….

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18
“Yes, and the Spirit of God indwells all saved men, YET no man other than Yahshua is ascribed the divine name YHWH in the Bible. Why is Peter not called YHWH – he was indwelt by God, or Paul…..”

Jesus is never called by His Father's name.
He is Yahshua, not Yah

[Is 1:18]

Quote

Jesus is never called by His Father's name. He is Yahshua, not Yah

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 22 2006,10:32)

That is incorrect Yahshua is ascribed this title no less than four times in Zechariah 14: Zechariah 14 1Behold, the day of the LORD [YHWH] cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3Then shall the LORD [YHWH] go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD [YHWH] my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD [YHWH], not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9And the LORD [YHWH] shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD [YHWH], and his name one. 10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. 11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. 12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD [YHWH] will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD [YHWH] shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague. 16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD [YHWH] of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD [YHWH] of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD [YHWH] will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD [YHWH] of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD [YHWH] of hosts.

Jesus is called YHWH, YHWH of Hosts, I AM, First and Last, Alpha and Omega, Most High, God, Mighty God, Great God, God and Savior…..etc etc

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18
“Jesus is called YHWH, YHWH of Hosts, “
No that is his Father.
He is the Son of God.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2006,21:32)

Hi Is 1.18 “Jesus is called YHWH, YHWH of Hosts, “ No that is his Father.

Scripture disagrees with you. I'll stick with scripture….

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18.
God is not a God of confusion such that both He and His Son have the same name.
You confuse the glorious vessel with the even more glorious contents.

[Scripture Seeker]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 22 2006,21:22)

Quote Jesus is never called by His Father's name. He is Yahshua, not Yah Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 22 2006,10:32) That is incorrect Yahshua is ascribed this title no less than four times in Zechariah 14: Zechariah 14 1Behold, the day of the LORD [YHWH] cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3Then shall the LORD [YHWH] go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD [YHWH] my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. 6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD [YHWH], not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9And the LORD [YHWH] shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD [YHWH], and his name one. 10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. 11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. 12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD [YHWH] will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD [YHWH] shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague. 16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD [YHWH] of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD [YHWH] of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD [YHWH] will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD [YHWH] of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD [YHWH] of hosts. Jesus is called YHWH, YHWH of Hosts, I AM, First and Last, Alpha and Omega, Most High, God, Mighty God, Great God, God and Savior…..etc etc

Amen

 

[Author]

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