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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 06 2006,20:29) Hi Oxy,
It is not our job to change anyone's mind. That work is of God. We do try to present accurately what is written in the scriptures and let everyone make an informed choice.I hope, for your sake, that your choice proves everlastingly resilient, and can be defended when you meet the Master.
Thanks for your concerns Nick. To be honest, I have a living and vibrant relationship with the Lord and I'm sure that if my understanding was a problem to Him, He would have told me. He has had no problem informing me of many other things that were on His mind, so I'm sure that if He was concerned about this He would mention it too.I have an open heart before God and He is able to mould me, but it is He who is the craftsman, not man.
Thanks for your concerns Nick, and I'm sorry if that offended you before. It was a heat of the moment thing and I knew as soon as I posted that I shouldn't have said what I did.
God bless.
Hi Oxy,
You say
“His name is Holy Spirit”
This is not a name but a description.Then how do you see Rom 8?
How many names does the Spirit have here?
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
Hi Oxy,
No problems bro.Abuse is part of the job description.
Does God only speak to you one way,
or is there only one way in which you are comfortable to hear Him?Hi Oxy,
You say
“How can you say He is not a He?”
Scripture says HE and I am comfortable with that.
But I do not take another step and assume from that that the Spirit is another person from God.Hi Oxy
You say
“It is not given to us to worship or pray to the Holy Spirit”
Then the Spirit is not a person in the God you worship.Quote (Oxy @ Sep. 07 2006,15:21) Nick, I want to thank you. When I first came on this site I strongly believed that God was the Father (God Almighty), The Son (The Word of God) and the Holy Spirit.
You cast a seed of doubt in my mind which made me search the Scriptures and consider all that was said in this discussion. Was I mistaken? Did I get it wrong?
Having seen all of the arguments on these discussion pages, having searched the Scriptures and the Spirit of God I have come to a conclusion.
I stand stronger than ever before in my resolve that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Oxy.In order to do that Oxy, you have do deny hundreds of scriptures. Try these 100 and replace the word “God” with your understanding of God, i.e., “Trinity”.
Then watch your doctrine nullify the word of God.
How can you say that you are even more convinced of the Trinity doctrine, knowing that it breaks 100s of scriptures.
Are you crazy?
Try reading say 10 at random. I don't expect you to read all of them. But that would be a good thing for you to do.
Matthew 27:46
Mark 1:24
Mark 10:18
Mark 15:34
Mark 16:19
Luke 2:52
Luke 6:12
Luke 18:19
John 3:2
John 8:42
John 8:54
John 9:3
John 13:31
John 14:1*
John 17:3
John 20:17
Acts 2:22
Acts 2:32
Acts 2:36
Acts 3:13
Acts 4:10
Acts 5:30
Acts 7:55
Acts 10:36
Acts 10:38
Acts 13:23
Acts 20:21
Romans 1:7
Romans 1:8
Romans 2:16
Romans 3:22
Romans 4:24
Romans 5:1
Romans 5:11
Romans 5:15
Romans 5:17
Romans 6:23
Romans 7:25
Romans 8:34
Romans 10:9
Romans 15:5
Romans 15:6
Romans 16:27
1 Corinthians 1:3
1 Corinthians 1:9
1 Corinthians 1:30
1 Corinthians 8:6
1 Corinthians 15:57
2 Corinthians 1:2
2 Corinthians 1:3
2 Corinthians 11:31
2 Corinthians 13:14
Galatians 1:1
Galatians 1:3
Ephesians 1:2
Ephesians 1:3
Ephesians 1:17
Ephesians 2:6
Ephesians 6:23
Philippians 1:2
Philippians 2:11
Colossians 1:3*
Colossians 3:17
1 Thessalonians 1:1
1 Thessalonians 1:3
1 Thessalonians 3:11
1 Thessalonians 3:13
1 Thessalonians 4:14
1 Thessalonians 5:9
2 Thessalonians 1:1
2 Thessalonians 1:2
2 Thessalonians 1:12
2 Thessalonians 2:16
1 Timothy 1:1
1 Timothy 1:2
1 Timothy 2:5
1 Timothy 5:21
1 Timothy 6:3
2 Timothy 1:1
2 Timothy 1:2
2 Timothy 4:1
Titus 1:4
Titus 2:13
Philemon 1:3
Hebrews 13:20
James 1:1
1 Peter 1:2
1 Peter 2:5
2 Peter 1:1
2 Peter 1:2
1 John 5:1*
1 John 5:20
2 John 1:3
Jude 1:1
Jude 1:4
Jude 1:21
Jude 1:25
Revelation 1:1
Revelation 1:2
Revelation 14:12The answer is really quite simple. If you are in Christ and the Spirit is in you, you are led by the Spirit. I really can't see what all the fuss is about. If Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “He” then it's good enough for me.
As for your question “Does God only speak to you one way,
or is there only one way in which you are comfortable to hear Him?”There are many ways He speaks to me. Often if I'm just going through my day He will just speak quietly to me and I know to obey His instruction or whatever.
One time when I needed reassurance He used a non-Christian to tell me exactly what I needed to hear.
If He gives me revelation, then He usually takes me into Scripture to help me understand.
I have been scolded by Him on a number of occasions.. scary stuff!
There are time when I just “know” something as the Spirit reveals it to me.
He often gives me prophetic utterances, which are heard and confirmed by our church.
He sometimes gives me a word of knowledge.
Sometimes it is His peace that guides me more than anything.
Sometimes I am convicted of things as I read Scripture.I'm sure if I gave it more thought I could think of more examples.
t8, you ask me if I'm crazy. Thanks for that bro. I love you too. The fact is, I'm not crazy. I used to be crazy as a result of years of bitterness and drug abuse, occult practises etc, so I do know what it's like to be crazy.
Praise God I also know what it is to have a very sound mind. God gave me that.
Hi Oxy,
It would be reassuring if you were to respond to scripture and then accept direction from it with joy.t8, you also say “Then watch your doctrine nullify the word of God.”
Don't you realise that it's more of an offence to call the Bible the word of God than it is to believe in God being 3?
There is only 1 Word (logos) of God, His name is Jesus, or Yashua if you prefer.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 06 2006,23:45) Hi Oxy,
It would be reassuring if you were to respond to scripture and then accept direction from it with joy.
But I do!! lolQuote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 06 2006,23:45) Hi Oxy,
It would be reassuring if you were to respond to scripture and then accept direction from it with joy.
Nick, surely you understand that if I were to only respond to Scripture I would have missed out on most of the direction God has given me over the last 28 years.Hi Oxy,
Yesterday is history.
Today we have to make choices.
Walk while the light is with you to become sons of light.Heb 3
“7Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,8Harden not your hearts,”
Quote (Oxy @ Sep. 07 2006,18:46) t8, you also say “Then watch your doctrine nullify the word of God.” Don't you realise that it's more of an offence to call the Bible the word of God than it is to believe in God being 3?
There is only 1 Word (logos) of God, His name is Jesus, or Yashua if you prefer.
First you deny the word of God by your tradition, then you even call it an offence to call it the word of God.I am not trying to trap you Oxy, I am trying to help you.
Mark 7:13
Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”Matthew 15:6
he is not to 'honor his father ' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.How do you in good conscience believe in a doctrine that nullifies the word of God? Please rather than avoid what I am saying, I would like to hear your answer as to how and why you believe in a tradition that nullifies the word of God.
Quote (Oxy @ Sep. 07 2006,18:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 06 2006,23:45) Hi Oxy,
It would be reassuring if you were to respond to scripture and then accept direction from it with joy.
Nick, surely you understand that if I were to only respond to Scripture I would have missed out on most of the direction God has given me over the last 28 years.
To Oxy.But the God of Heaven would never direct you in a way that was against his inspired scripture.
Sure I am not saying that God doesn't move in your life, God knows, but at least you should consider that if we are to be perfected, then we will change when truth is presented to us. If we do not change and become unteachable, then God has reached the limit of what he can do as far as transforming you into the image of his son while you are still in the body.
Hi Oxy,
Everyone says they love God.
Jesus has given us ways to check that we love him, and thus love the Father
Jn 14
“23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
If you cling to the teachings of Babylon ahead of his what does that say about you?
Hi Oxy, Your honest comments are appreciated. I could say much about the points you have made, but will pick up on just one, that is:“I have never said that the Holy Spirit holds equal rank with Father and Son.”
This is a very interestiing admission, because it means that you must have another version of the tri-unity of God, which is not the official and accepted version; such also being evident from some of your other remarks.
It means that you must be in disagreemet with the Athanasius Creed, which in one part states, “So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another; but the whole three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal.
Are you aware of what it says at the end of this Creed? This is what it says: “This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.“
Thus ,if, as you say, the Holy Spirit does not hold equal rank with the Father and Son, you have just rejected a major premise of trinitarian theology.
Some of your other comments also indicate that you do not see the Holy Spirit as being co-equal with the Father and the Son, as according to what you have said his “name” which is not a name in the truest sense, holds much more importance and signifigance than that of the other two parties.
From my experience Oxy, if you start expressing thoughts like you have given in your response, in 'pure' trinitarian circles, you will be considered a heretic.
I notice that you have said to Nick that you have done a lot of research on this matter, after he raised some doubts in your mind. I am wondering what sort of research you may have done, as it seems that you are not even totally familiar with trinitarian theology?
Interestingly enough, after I placed my last post, I got an email from a friend asking me if I had checked out the article on the Holy Spirit at this WEB location: http://www.creatorgod.org/2006%20….rit.pdf
Having just read it, I found it a very honest and scholarly examination of the considerations surrounding the subject of the Holy Spirit. If you go look it over, you will notice that the person who wrote it is inviting comments. You might like to give it some thought in light of what you have been saying in this Forum?
Would welcome your further thoughts after you have worked through the issues and conclusions that have been presented in this particular article.
May Proverbs 4:5-7 be kept in mind at all times.
Elidad
“Thus ,if, as you say, the Holy Spirit does not hold equal rank with the Father and Son, you have just rejected a major premise of trinitarian theology.”
hm thats interesting, i have some something for you to think about.. so Oxy you dont that the holy Spirit has equal rank with father and son and you believe in the trinity? well then obviously you see something just doesnt add up… think about this…. if you think a piece of the trinity is wrong then how can the entire idea be right? you cant have a mixture of truths and lies and ultimately deem it as one truth… that is just foolish…. therefore if you believe a piece of the trinity is wrong then the ENTIRE thing should be wrong all together to you… i hope this helps
if it were really inspired of god and really what god wants us to learn, there would be 100% truth in it, just like the bible has 100% truth in it…
Far out, that got some responses lol.
I will attempt to answer all, but I'm on lunch break now, so will continue after work.. k?
Elidad I am not Catholic and nd many of their practises to be totally anti-Scriptural. I was not aware of the trinitarian concept being more than just acknowledging Father, Son and Holy Spirit before I found this site, and from what I've seen, I do not claim to be a trinitarian at all, but I do believe in Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I will check out the site later, thanks.
I will attempt to answer that great big list of Scripture references on the previous page later.. lol.
God bless
Nick If I didn't have signs and wonders following my life, communication with God, His peace in my heart, the gift of tongues and others, then I would have to share your concern.
t8 When have I ever said God has led me in a way that is against Scripture? I appreciate your concern, but can you show me just one place in Scripture where the Bible is referred to as the Word (logos) of God? The Scripture you quoted, if you read it again placing “Jesus” in there instead of Word you will hopefully see what I mean. The Bible is Spirit inspired and is the words of God, which is different from the Word of God.
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