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Hi cam,
Do not expect any replies to these questions as those who do not wish to hear become deaf to truth.i know… i havent been getting much replies from any of my posts because no one can defend them selves against what im saying lol
That's right. They simply ignore hundreds of scriptures that do not fit their theology, and then they try to argue the point outside of scripture using creeds and fancy words like “ontology'.
To me it seems pointless arguing against scripture. What reward is there in that? They don't even get money for doing it.
They only do it for prides sake.
They are to be truly pitied.
Quote (camrezaie @ Aug. 23 2006,15:30) excellent point nick, ive never thought of that my self… im definitely going to use that as one of my arguments…
Yes that is a good point.Thanks Nick.
Quote (camrezaie @ Aug. 22 2006,20:30) excellent point nick, ive never thought of that my self… im definitely going to use that as one of my arguments… everyone out there can agree that God's purpose is not for us to believe a mix of truths and lies, and everyone can also agree that you cant believe in a mix of truths and lies and ultimately deem is as being the absolute truth… that would just be foolish and naive, we can probably all agree that if there is the tiniest aspect that is false in something, then the entire thing is false all together…. well here is the TINIEST aspect of the trinity that can is proven false extremely clearly, the trinity says that jesus is all knowing…
Mark 13:32
32 Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father.lol you cant argue against that…. some of you might say well “jesus was submissive to the father”… ask yourself this question, how does this have anything to do with submission? some of you might say well that was because he was on earth, well where in the bible does it say that jesus knows all in heaven? the problem is people have their minds predetermined that the trinity is correct so they incorporate it in any way possible into the bible, the problem is you have your order of operations wrong, your using the doctrine to pave your beliefs from the bible instead of doing it the other way… enough said :/
yeah… I know what you mean carm…. I use that same argument against anti-trinitarians…. they believe a mix of lies and the truth…..secondly, Trinitarians affirm that as to touching his manhood He was limited, as to touching his godhood He is not ignorant…. simple really…. Jesus' diapers had to be changed, no doubt He spit up on His mother, He had to grow in learning and wisdom…. but all this means is that Jesus was truly human, period.
“MARK 13:32—Was Jesus ignorant of the time of His second coming?PROBLEM: The Bible teaches that Jesus is God (John 1:1) and that He knows all things (John 2:24; Col. 2:3). On the other hand, He “increased in wisdom” (Luke 2:52) and sometimes did not seem to know certain things (cf. John 11:34). Indeed, He denied knowing the time of His own second coming here, saying, “but of that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”
SOLUTION: We must distinguish between what Jesus knew as God (everything) and what He knew as man. As God, Jesus was omniscient (all-knowing), but as man He was limited in His knowledge. The situation can be schematized as follows:
JESUS AS GOD
Unlimited in knowledge
No growth in knowledge
Knew time of His comingJESUS AS MAN
Limited in knowledge
Growth in knowledge
Did not know time of His coming”
(When Critics Ask, Norm Geisler)“Jesus' ignorance of the day or hour of his parousia must be understood in terms of the NT teaching concerning the Incarnation. A real Incarnation involved such lack of knowledge. Jesus purposely laid aside temporarily the exercise of his omniscience as part of what was involved in his becoming man.” (Expositors, Mark)
“After all, the passage has no more difficulty than that in Luke 2:52, where it is said that Jesus increased in wisdom and stature. He had a human nature. He grew as a man in knowledge. As a man his knowledge must be finite, for the faculties of the human soul are not infinite. As a man he often spoke, reasoned, inquired, felt, feared, read, learned, ate, drank, and walked. Why are not all these, which imply that he was a “man” – that, “as a man,” he was not infinite-why are not these as difficult as the want of knowledge respecting the particular “time” of a future event, especially when that time must be made known by God, and when he chose that the man Christ Jesus should grow, and think, and speak “as a man?”” (Barnes)
So… yes… you can indeed “argue against that”….
And you are right… its not about Jesus' submission to the Father, rather, it has to do with the nature of the incarnation……“Who did Jesus claim to be?
Claim to be Jehovah (Yahweh) Jehovah or, more properly, Yahweh is the special name given by God for Himself.
In the Hebrew Old Testament, it is written simply as four letters (YHWH) and was considered so holy that a devout Jew would not pronounce it. Those who wrote it
would perform a special ceremony first. It is the name revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:14, when God said, “I AM WHO I AM,” and the meaning of the name has to do with God’s self-existence. While other titles for God may be used of men (adonai in Gen. 18:12) or false gods (elohim in Deut. 6:14), Yahweh is only used to refer to the one true God. Nothing else was to be worshiped or served (Ex. 20:5), and His name
and glory were not to be given to another. Isaiah wrote, “Thus saith [Yahweh] … I am the first, and I am the last; and beside Me there is no God” (44:6, KJV) and, “I am
[Yahweh], that is My name; and My glory I will not give to another, neither My praise to graven images” (42:8, KJV).In light of this, it is no wonder that the Jews picked up stones and accused Jesus of blasphemy when He claimed to be Jehovah. Jesus said, “I am the Good Shepherd” (John 10:11), but the Old Testament said, “[Yahweh] is my Shepherd” (Ps. 23:1).
Jesus claimed to be the judge of all men (Matt. 25:31ff; John 5:27ff), but the Prophet Joel quotes Yahweh as saying, “For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations” (Joel 3:12).
Jesus prayed, “Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own Self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was” (John 17:5, KJV). But Yahweh of the Old Testament said, “I will not give My glory to another” (Isa. 42:8). Likewise, Jesus spoke of Himself as the “Bridegroom” (Matt. 25:1) while the Old Testament identifies Yahweh in this way (Isa. 62:5; Hosea 2:16). The risen Christ says, “I am the first and the last” (Rev. 1:17)—precisely the words used by Yahweh in Isaiah 42:8.
While the psalmist declares, “[Yahweh] is my light” (Ps. 27:1), Jesus said, “I am the light of the world” (John 8:12).
Perhaps the strongest claim Jesus made to be Yahweh
is in verse 58, where He says, “Before Abraham was born, I AM.” This statement claims not only existence before Abraham, but equality with the “I AM” of Exodus 3:14. The Jews around Him clearly understood His meaning and picked up stones to kill Him for blaspheming (cf. John 8:58; 10:31–33). The same claim is made in Mark 14:62 and John 18:5–6.Overview of Jesus’ Claims
To be Yahweh—John 8:58
Equality with God—John 5:18
To be Messiah—Mark 14:61–64
Accepts worship—Matthew 28:17
Equal authority with God—Matthew 28:18
Prayer in His name—John 14:13–14
Claim to be equal with GodJesus claimed to be equal with God in other ways too. He not only assumed the titles of Deity, but claimed for Himself the prerogatives of God. He said to a paralytic, “My son, your sins are forgiven” (Mark 2:5ff). The scribes correctly responded, “Who can forgive sins but God alone?” So, to prove that His claim was not an empty boast He healed the man, offering direct proof that what He had said about forgiving sins was true also.
Another prerogative that Jesus claimed was the power to raise and judge the dead:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear shall live …
and shall come forth; those
who did the good deeds, to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment” (John 5:25–29). He removed all doubt about His meaning when He added, “For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes” (v. 21). But the Old Testament clearly taught that only God was the giver of life (1 Sam. 2:6; Deut. 32:39); the One to raise the dead (1 Sam. 2:6; Ps. 49:15) and the only Judge (Joel 3:12; Deut. 32:35).Jesus boldly assumed for Himself powers that only God has.
But Jesus also claimed that He should be honored as God. He said that all men should “honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father” (John 5:23). The Jews listening knew that no one should claim to be equal with God in this way, and again they sought to kill Him (v. 18).” (When Skeptics Ask, Norm Geisler)Lastly, don't think for a minute I have “predetermined” that the Trinity is true. I wasn't raised in a Christian home, all my beliefs have been come by “honestly”, they are my own, and I don't believe anything simply because someone else does. Further, I might simply say that you have predetermined that the Trinity is NOT true…. is that true about you? If not, would you want someone accusing you of having done just this? Of course not. So don't accuse anyone else of doing this unless you know for a fact it is the case. Otherwise you are just creating straw men, and that is a waste of time for everyone.
blessings
To epistemaniac.
You have made the same old arguments. We can see through them and can answer and counter all of them WITH SCRIPTURE. You cannot deceive us with these arguments, they have already passed through the fire and they have already caught alight, and what a fire it is.
Hi all,
The anti-Trinity doctrine discussion ping pongs to some degree because supporters of that doctrine come up with all kinds of accusations against us and we are simply defendeding that which we have written. We are ready to give an answer to what we believe.So we may ping and then they pong, but sometimes to such a degree that something has to be said to get rid of the smell.
Also the anti-Trinity doctrine is one of the biggest delusions in the world today and so our teaching will be questioned all the more, simply because of the importance that this doctrine holds for it is written in 1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,So giving an answer to what we teach and believe is acceptable.
Ephesians 5:11
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.It is also useful for readers who are questioning the anti-Trinity doctrine to see answers to ALL the accusations against us and our stand and also all the accusations against the anti-Trinity doctrine itself. This way they can be more sure that this doctrine isn't scriptural. We have nothing to hide.
It is true that some come here not because they are searching for truth, but to condemn us and our teaching. But let them be like Saul if that is what they want. Hopefully one day they will be converted into Paul. From approving persecution against us to becoming someone useful in the purposes of God.
blessings
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 22 2006,23:52) To epistemaniac. You have made the same old arguments. We can see through them and can answer and counter all of them WITH SCRIPTURE. You cannot deceive us with these arguments, they have already passed through the fire and they have already caught alight, and what a fire it is.
to t8,You have made the same old arguments. We can see through them and can answer and counter all of them WITH SCRIPTURE. You cannot deceive us with these arguments, they have already passed through the fire and they have already caught alight, and what a fire it is.
oh cam… meant to add “That Jesus as God knew all things is illustrated in numerous verses of Scripture. For example, Jesus knew precisely where the fish were in the water (Luke 5:4, 6; John 21:6–11), and he knew just which fish contained the coin (Matt. 17:27). He knew that his friend Lazarus had died, even though he was nowhere in the vicinity of Lazarus (John 11:11). He knew beforehand those who would reject him (John 6:64) and those who would follow him (John 10:14). He knows the Father as the Father knows him, something that requires that Jesus have the same omniscience as the Father (Matt. 11:27; John 7:29; 8:55; 10:15; 17:25).” (When Cultists Ask, Norm Geisler)
Really, it would solve an awful lot of trouble if all the cultists would just read the responses to their rather superficial objections that have already been given so many times before…… but perhaps that is too much to ask?
blessings
epistemaniac.
We have given you and others the same old scriptures.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.Ephesians 4:4-6
4 there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.John 20:17
Jesus said, Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them,
`I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.Ephesians 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.Revelation 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,Revelation 3:12
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God.
Never again will he leave it.
I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.There are hundreds more scriptures waiting in the queue.
epistemaniac why don't you also replace the word “God” with the word “Trinity” in these 100 scriptures below and watch your theology fall apart.
There are also more in the queue if that is not enough for you.
Matthew 27:46
Mark 1:24
Mark 10:18
Mark 15:34
Mark 16:19
Luke 2:52
Luke 6:12
Luke 18:19
John 3:2
John 8:42
John 8:54
John 9:3
John 13:31
John 14:1*
John 17:3
John 20:17
Acts 2:22
Acts 2:32
Acts 2:36
Acts 3:13
Acts 4:10
Acts 5:30
Acts 7:55
Acts 10:36
Acts 10:38
Acts 13:23
Acts 20:21
Romans 1:7
Romans 1:8
Romans 2:16
Romans 3:22
Romans 4:24
Romans 5:1
Romans 5:11
Romans 5:15
Romans 5:17
Romans 6:23
Romans 7:25
Romans 8:34
Romans 10:9
Romans 15:5
Romans 15:6
Romans 16:27
1 Corinthians 1:3
1 Corinthians 1:9
1 Corinthians 1:30
1 Corinthians 8:6
1 Corinthians 15:57
2 Corinthians 1:2
2 Corinthians 1:3
2 Corinthians 11:31
2 Corinthians 13:14
Galatians 1:1
Galatians 1:3
Ephesians 1:2
Ephesians 1:3
Ephesians 1:17
Ephesians 2:6
Ephesians 6:23
Philippians 1:2
Philippians 2:11
Colossians 1:3*
Colossians 3:17
1 Thessalonians 1:1
1 Thessalonians 1:3
1 Thessalonians 3:11
1 Thessalonians 3:13
1 Thessalonians 4:14
1 Thessalonians 5:9
2 Thessalonians 1:1
2 Thessalonians 1:2
2 Thessalonians 1:12
2 Thessalonians 2:16
1 Timothy 1:1
1 Timothy 1:2
1 Timothy 2:5
1 Timothy 5:21
1 Timothy 6:3
2 Timothy 1:1
2 Timothy 1:2
2 Timothy 4:1
Titus 1:4
Titus 2:13
Philemon 1:3
Hebrews 13:20
James 1:1
1 Peter 1:2
1 Peter 2:5
2 Peter 1:1
2 Peter 1:2
1 John 5:1*
1 John 5:20
2 John 1:3
Jude 1:1
Jude 1:4
Jude 1:21
Jude 1:25
Revelation 1:1
Revelation 1:2
Revelation 14:12Quote (epistemaniac @ Aug. 23 2006,00:05) oh cam… meant to add “That Jesus as God knew all things is illustrated in numerous verses of Scripture. For example, Jesus knew precisely where the fish were in the water (Luke 5:4, 6; John 21:6–11), and he knew just which fish contained the coin (Matt. 17:27). He knew that his friend Lazarus had died, even though he was nowhere in the vicinity of Lazarus (John 11:11). He knew beforehand those who would reject him (John 6:64) and those who would follow him (John 10:14). He knows the Father as the Father knows him, something that requires that Jesus have the same omniscience as the Father (Matt. 11:27; John 7:29; 8:55; 10:15; 17:25).” (When Cultists Ask, Norm Geisler) Really, it would solve an awful lot of trouble if all the cultists would just read the responses to their rather superficial objections that have already been given so many times before…… but perhaps that is too much to ask?
blessings
Hi E,
Are you unaware that Jesus was filled with the powers of God through the Spirit of God in him?Acts 10.34f
” 34So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. 36As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all), 37you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.”Did you think he was doing it all by himself?
He emptied himself to be just like you and me and the power was God in him.The Scripture plainly cxalls Jesus God:
Titus 2:13 NNAS looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,”
This one verse alone (and that is all it takes) proves conclusively, once and for all, Jesus is God. But wait.. here is another one….
2 Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:”and yet another…. 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.”
So I ask all non/anti trinitarians…. who is your only Lord? who is your only Savior? The Bible says that only God is Lord, yet Jesus is called our (true Christians) only Lord; “Jude 1:4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.”
So all of you that deny the Trinity, the Bible says that you have been marked out beforehand for condemnation, you are ungodly, and deny the only Lord we have.
The Bible also says that only God can be our Savior, yet Jesus is said to be our only Savior.
Is 43:3 “For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I have given Egypt as your ransom, Cush and Seba in your place.
Is 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.
Is 45:15 Truly, You are a God who hides Himself, O God of Israel, Savior!
Is 45:21 “Declare and set forth {your case;} Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me.
Is 49:26 “I will feed your oppressors with their own flesh, And they will become drunk with their own blood as with sweet wine; And all flesh will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.”
Is 60:16 “You will also suck the milk of nations And suck the breast of kings; Then you will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.
Hos 13:4 Yet I {have been} the LORD your God Since the land of Egypt; And you were not to know any god except Me, For there is no savior besides Me.
Luke 2:11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
John 4:42 and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.”
Phil 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;
1 Tim 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
2 Tim 1:10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
Titus 1:3 but at the proper time manifested, {even} His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior,
Titus 1:4 ¶ To Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Titus 2:10 not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect.
2 Pet 1:11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
2 Pet 3:2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior {spoken} by your apostles.
2 Pet 3:18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him {be} the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
The obvious conclusion is this… if Yahweh alone is the only Savior, and yet Jesus Christ is said to be our only Savior, it follows quite simply and necessarily that Jesus is God. If you deny this, the Bible clearly contradicts itself. God is the only Savior and Lord, Jesus is Savior and Lord, Jesus God.
So, if you deny that Jesus is God, you deny the existence of the only one who can save, God the Son.
blessings
Quote (Elidad @ Aug. 22 2006,06:13) Elidad,Aug. wrote:[/quote]
Many thanks t8. Let's indeed stick to basics an cut out all the cufuffle that goes on with this subject of the trinity. I feel certain that our Lord would have none of it.Let's look at all the cases where Jesus was subject to false accusation; adversarial comments and remarks, and it will be noted that He didn't “beat about the bush” so to speak. His responses were to the point, and understood by those who had ears to hear, but wrestled against by those who thought otherwise, and quite often were fully misunderstood. Take the case of eating his flesh and drinking his blood. How many understood and misunderstood His remarks made on that particular occasion?
It is true, that if we are not really looking for truth, but are more interested in being defensive about out standpoint, because it is entangled with so many other related notions, we will always miss hearing the intended message.
Why can't God's statement “Hear O Israel the Lord our God is one Lord” be taken for what its says, because to do so, the entire house that the other viewpoint has been built on, must come tumbling down. To many, that is asking just too much.
That is why the religious establishment in the time of Jesus rejected seeing Him as the Messiah. They realised that if such was truly the case, then their entire framework of thinking was wrong. It takes a very brave and courageous person to admit that they are totally wrong.
Perhaps, what I should say is, that it takes much humility to face up to the fact that our thinking might be askew. Loss of face is a hard matter to deal with at times.
Elidad
I agree Elidad… so many who deny the Trinity simply are not looking for the truth, they think they have the truth, and no amount of Scriptural reasoning can seem to shake them out of their stupor, one imposed on them by the god of this world no doubt. But, we can prayerfully ask the Lord Jesus to take the scales off of the eyes of those who denigrate and insult the Holy One of Israel, our only God and Savior, Jesus Christ.As it is, we Trinitarians take the shema for what it says, the ord our God is one, achad… the very same word used to describe Adam and Eve as “one” flesh in Gen. 2:24, is used of God in the shema. So just as Adam and Eve are 2, yet can be spoken of as one, so too can Yahweh be 3 in person, yet one in subsistence. Simple stuff really, basic Bible 101…. its just too bad that anti Trinitarians have to try and make things so complicated. But, to many, that is just asking too much. That is because the very foundation of their beliefs would come tumbling down, to found to have been built on a foundation of sand, that of their own human reasoning, which, to them, becomes an idol, their very own god, they themselves!
So, indeed, it is the case that humility is necessary to see this basic biblical truth as being true, for they have to be willing to sacrifice their own egos, their construction of themselves as their very own god, in order to be ready to submit themselves to the truths of God's word, not just the parts they want to accept, but the whole counsel of God. Few are willing to do this, wide is the path to destruction and many are they who find it.
blessings
Quote (epistemaniac @ Aug. 23 2006,18:07) The Scripture plainly cxalls Jesus God: Titus 2:13 NNAS looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,”
This one verse alone (and that is all it takes) proves conclusively, once and for all, Jesus is God. But wait.. here is another one….
2 Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:”and yet another…. 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.”
So I ask all non/anti trinitarians…. who is your only Lord? who is your only Savior? The Bible says that only God is Lord, yet Jesus is called our (true Christians) only Lord; “Jude 1:4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.”
So all of you that deny the Trinity, the Bible says that you have been marked out beforehand for condemnation, you are ungodly, and deny the only Lord we have.
The Bible also says that only God can be our Savior, yet Jesus is said to be our only Savior.
Is 43:3 “For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I have given Egypt as your ransom, Cush and Seba in your place.
Is 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.
Is 45:15 Truly, You are a God who hides Himself, O God of Israel, Savior!
Is 45:21 “Declare and set forth {your case;} Indeed, let them consult together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it? Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me.
Is 49:26 “I will feed your oppressors with their own flesh, And they will become drunk with their own blood as with sweet wine; And all flesh will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.”
Is 60:16 “You will also suck the milk of nations And suck the breast of kings; Then you will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.
Hos 13:4 Yet I {have been} the LORD your God Since the land of Egypt; And you were not to know any god except Me, For there is no savior besides Me.
Luke 2:11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
John 4:42 and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.”
Phil 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;
1 Tim 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
2 Tim 1:10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
Titus 1:3 but at the proper time manifested, {even} His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior,
Titus 1:4 ¶ To Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Titus 2:10 not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect.
2 Pet 1:11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
2 Pet 3:2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior {spoken} by your apostles.
2 Pet 3:18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him {be} the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
The obvious conclusion is this… if Yahweh alone is the only Savior, and yet Jesus Christ is said to be our only Savior, it follows quite simply and necessarily that Jesus is God. If you deny this, the Bible clearly contradicts itself. God is the only Savior and Lord, Jesus is Savior and Lord, Jesus God.
So, if you deny that Jesus is God, you deny the existence of the only one who can save, God the Son.
blessings
Hi E,
Is trinity doctrine written?
If it is not written then it has been added to the Scriptures by your masters.
It joins the list of false teachings that have gone beyond the teachings of Christ.
Only a brave man would challenge what the Spirit has written through men and say it has been insufficient and needs to be added to.
Let it be your path but do not seek followers for their sake.yes it is written, even if you do not have eyes to see…. but (2 Cor 4:4 NASB) in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”
Quote (epistemaniac @ Aug. 23 2006,19:31) and why try and hide from the Scriptures that plainly say that Jesus is God Nick?
Hi E,
If so then who is the Son of God?Salvation is founded on knowing him too.
Quote (epistemaniac @ Aug. 23 2006,19:30) yes it is written, even if you do not have eyes to see…. but (2 Cor 4:4 NASB) in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.”
Hi E,
What is written is written plainly for the eyes of the simple and for children.
So where is trinity written in this way or do we need the eyes of theologians?
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