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Quote (malcolm ferris @ June 10 2006,04:23) Just a thought
Does Jesus ever do anything or make any decision contrary to God's will? – I don't believe so.
So if the Son quickens whom he will, is it not that he wants to quicken all whom God wants quickened?
Are not their two wills perfectly in harmony?
I believe so.
Jesus will was sometimes different to God's will when he was in the flesh, but he always surrended his will to God.Luke 22:42
“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”
oh give it a rest, we are talking about the only begotten son of God, only begotten, You really believe that He had a seperate thought that was not given to HIM by HIs Father……..?
Hello All,
Kenrch, your reply to beenblake was poetic. I agree that religiosity will not draw you nearer to God. We can become “inflated” in our own minds. Here's the bottom line on the “Jesus is God” topic. Jesus Christ HAS A GOD (God the Father). 6 “so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Romans 15:6) God the Father DOES NOT HAVE A GOD!!! Jesus Christ is and always will be “SUBJECT” to God His Father (I Cor. 15:24-28). No sincere student of the Bible has ever even attempted to reconcile such Scriptures with a trinity theory.
HASTINGS Dictionary of the Bible by Schribners, on page 1015 under the topic: “THE TRINITY–The Christian doctrine of God as existing in three Persons & one Substance is NOT DEMONSTRABLE BY LOGIC OR BY SCRIPTURAL PROOFS…” According to Mr. Hastings, one would have to use ILLOGICAL AND UNSCRIPTURAL data in order to prove a trinity. Now I didn't need Mr. Hastings to tell me that. Beenblake, the Biblical confession of faith unto salvation is found in Romans 10:9 which says if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, (not God), and that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you must believe Jesus is God to be saved or to have a relationship with him.
I attend and serve a church with people who believe in a trinity, binity, oneness and just not sure. When asked I speak the truth in love. I can only control my walk with the Lord but have compassion on others. I have my own ministry and teach the truth, not myths. When I applied to seminary, I made it clear that I did not believe in the trinity. I was offered a scholarship in spite of that so times are changing.
I love my Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus who gave everything for me. My Father is my God and Jesus is my Lord. I rely on the finished work of Christ for my salvation as scripture teaches. A sure feature of a cult is saying people are only saved if they include your added creeds. I don't think so.
Seminarian
Hi seminiarian and welcome,
Who was the letter to the Romans addressed to?
If it was addressed to the saints[Ch1] how can it be preached as a way of salvation?Hi Nick, thanks for the welcome.
What I said is that Romans 10:9 is the Biblical confession of faith. Yes the letter was written to the saints but notice the preceding verse: 8 “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is the word of faith we are PROCLAIMING: 9 That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved.
So notice this is the word of faith that the saints are proclaiming to the unsaved. I also think it would be naive to assume that everyone in each congregation was committed to Christ. Why then would Paul need to write further instructions to the Corinthians about speaking in tongues without interpretation? Notice here:
“If for that reason, the whole assembly may come together to the same place….and there may come in UNLEARNED or UNBELIEVERS, will they not say that you are mad?” (1Corn 14:23) YLT
The unlearned and unbelievers attended meetings with believers. They needed to hear the Bible's way to salvation and the saints needed to be reminded of its proclaimatin. Hope this answers your question.
Seminarian
Quote (seminarian @ June 27 2006,05:00) Hello All, Kenrch, your reply to beenblake was poetic. I agree that religiosity will not draw you nearer to God. We can become “inflated” in our own minds. Here's the bottom line on the “Jesus is God” topic. Jesus Christ HAS A GOD (God the Father). 6 “so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Romans 15:6) God the Father DOES NOT HAVE A GOD!!! Jesus Christ is and always will be “SUBJECT” to God His Father (I Cor. 15:24-28). No sincere student of the Bible has ever even attempted to reconcile such Scriptures with a trinity theory.
HASTINGS Dictionary of the Bible by Schribners, on page 1015 under the topic: “THE TRINITY–The Christian doctrine of God as existing in three Persons & one Substance is NOT DEMONSTRABLE BY LOGIC OR BY SCRIPTURAL PROOFS…” According to Mr. Hastings, one would have to use ILLOGICAL AND UNSCRIPTURAL data in order to prove a trinity. Now I didn't need Mr. Hastings to tell me that. Beenblake, the Biblical confession of faith unto salvation is found in Romans 10:9 which says if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, (not God), and that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you must believe Jesus is God to be saved or to have a relationship with him.
I attend and serve a church with people who believe in a trinity, binity, oneness and just not sure. When asked I speak the truth in love. I can only control my walk with the Lord but have compassion on others. I have my own ministry and teach the truth, not myths. When I applied to seminary, I made it clear that I did not believe in the trinity. I was offered a scholarship in spite of that so times are changing.
I love my Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus who gave everything for me. My Father is my God and Jesus is my Lord. I rely on the finished work of Christ for my salvation as scripture teaches. A sure feature of a cult is saying people are only saved if they include your added creeds. I don't think so.
Seminarian
I agree with your post, but my one concern is the tendency of those attending seminary (from my experience) becomes one of leaning on their knowledge (provided in great part by the seminary) instead of their relationship.Just something I felt to pass on, May the Lord use you to His great pleasure.
Bless you brother
Quote (seminarian @ June 27 2006,05:00) Hello All, Kenrch, your reply to beenblake was poetic. I agree that religiosity will not draw you nearer to God. We can become “inflated” in our own minds. Here's the bottom line on the “Jesus is God” topic. Jesus Christ HAS A GOD (God the Father). 6 “so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Romans 15:6) God the Father DOES NOT HAVE A GOD!!! Jesus Christ is and always will be “SUBJECT” to God His Father (I Cor. 15:24-28). No sincere student of the Bible has ever even attempted to reconcile such Scriptures with a trinity theory.
HASTINGS Dictionary of the Bible by Schribners, on page 1015 under the topic: “THE TRINITY–The Christian doctrine of God as existing in three Persons & one Substance is NOT DEMONSTRABLE BY LOGIC OR BY SCRIPTURAL PROOFS…” According to Mr. Hastings, one would have to use ILLOGICAL AND UNSCRIPTURAL data in order to prove a trinity. Now I didn't need Mr. Hastings to tell me that. Beenblake, the Biblical confession of faith unto salvation is found in Romans 10:9 which says if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, (not God), and that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you must believe Jesus is God to be saved or to have a relationship with him.
I attend and serve a church with people who believe in a trinity, binity, oneness and just not sure. When asked I speak the truth in love. I can only control my walk with the Lord but have compassion on others. I have my own ministry and teach the truth, not myths. When I applied to seminary, I made it clear that I did not believe in the trinity. I was offered a scholarship in spite of that so times are changing.
I love my Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus who gave everything for me. My Father is my God and Jesus is my Lord. I rely on the finished work of Christ for my salvation as scripture teaches. A sure feature of a cult is saying people are only saved if they include your added creeds. I don't think so.
Seminarian
Hello Seminarian,Yes the Lord has His children all over the world in places that they are NOT so welcome. But it is here where those who truly seek God are opened to the truth. All we can do is let Crist shine through us.
They are two Kinds of people who share this forum. One who Christ has called out with the knowledge of the false teaching of the trinty. And those who are passing by and somehow (by the Holy Spirit) has caught on about the trinty but are not quite sure because of their teaching from their youth. They will kick around scripture and decide HEY! Just where does scripture SAY God is a trinty. And others decide that their fleshly teachers have to be right. After all they have been there “forever” teaching the trinty.
I talk to a Catholic who unlike most Catholics is sincere about his religion. The man knows all about the “early fathers” and the centuries that the Catholics have been around. As you might have guessed he believes in the “infallable teaching of the trinty god head”. And “other” really false doctrines.So anyway WELCOME! And hang around!
Kenrch
Quote (seminarian @ June 27 2006,05:51) Hi Nick, thanks for the welcome. What I said is that Romans 10:9 is the Biblical confession of faith. Yes the letter was written to the saints but notice the preceding verse: 8 “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is the word of faith we are PROCLAIMING: 9 That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved.
So notice this is the word of faith that the saints are proclaiming to the unsaved. I also think it would be naive to assume that everyone in each congregation was committed to Christ. Why then would Paul need to write further instructions to the Corinthians about speaking in tongues without interpretation? Notice here:
“If for that reason, the whole assembly may come together to the same place….and there may come in UNLEARNED or UNBELIEVERS, will they not say that you are mad?” (1Corn 14:23) YLT
The unlearned and unbelievers attended meetings with believers. They needed to hear the Bible's way to salvation and the saints needed to be reminded of its proclaimatin. Hope this answers your question.
Seminarian
Hi S,
The letter was written to the saved and the saved newly converted Jews in Rome who were strongly tempted to revert to legal observance and attempting their salvation through works.Paul was pleading with them in Ch 10 not to do that but instead to take their first wobbly steps in the Spirit, so near to them, in their hearts and on their lips. He wanted them to start “working out their salvation” as servants of God.
All the letters were written to the saved and most specify this in the first chapter. This is not Pauls work of preaching or establishing them in Christ, which he did when he was with them, but it was his work of parenting his babies as they peered at the strange new world of their life in Christ.
Certainly in other books Paul speaks of listeners at their gatherings who were not in Christ yet but they would be drawn to the light shining in the believers and be brought into the kingdom too through the letters but they were not primarily written to save them.
Joel too, quoted in Rom 10, has not yet come to fruition and will not fully do so till we see the changes spoken of in the sun and moon.
The way of Jesus demonstrated by the apostles in Acts has never been superceded or changed. The door is still Christ and the way is of rebirth through water and the Spirit.
Hey everybody,
Thanks for making me feel so welcome. Seeking the Truth, I agree with your point that most seminaries will want to push their dogma instead of allowing your relationship with God through Christ to teach you. This is even more of a problem in a denominational seminary. That's why I am attending a ecumenical ministry program meaning one that is non-denominational.
I am already functioning as clergy. My ministry is a chaplaincy to hospitals & rehabilitation centers, so most such facilities require that I be at least licensed. Ordination is of GOD, not men, (John 15:16 it states that the Lord chose you, not the other way around. Ordination is of God from before the foundation of the earth). I would never pursue ordination by concealing my monotheistic / unitarian beliefs.
My seminary has specific courses to support a ministry like this. So theology is only a part of my studies, (thank God!). Most of my studies deal with understanding world religions, the teachings of Christ, grief counseling, etc. It is a more progressive program to help prepare one for the nuts and bolts of the ministry. I am very interested in reading what you all have to say on various topics. I surely DO NOT know everything and I hope I don't come across as that. May God be gracious to all of you guys!
Semmy
Hi S,
1Cor says it all
“For us there is One God, the Father, …and One Lord Jesus Christ..”We are not unitarian and do not align ourselves with any human division, but we test their claims against the Word of God, and usually find them wanting.
Jesus said that you must be born again to see, and to enter the Kingdom, and that is of water and the Spirit, as also preached by Peter at Pentecost and demonstrated in Acts.
Men teach other ways that are false such as “invite Jesus into your heart” or Romans 10 .
It is safe only to go through the Gate of Jesus and to repent, believe and be baptised into his death and resurrection.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2006,21:45) Hi S,
1Cor says it all
“For us there is One God, the Father, …and One Lord Jesus Christ..”We are not unitarian and do not align ourselves with any human division, but we test their claims against the Word of God, and usually find them wanting.
Jesus said that you must be born again to see, and to enter the Kingdom, and that is of water and the Spirit, as also preached by Peter at Pentecost and demonstrated in Acts.
Men teach other ways that are false such as “invite Jesus into your heart” or Romans 10 .
It is safe only to go through the Gate of Jesus and to repent, believe and be baptised into his death and resurrection.
I won't bother with you, Nick. But I do have a question?Who are WE. You keep saying WE. “but we test their claims against the Word of God, and usually find them wanting”.
I think I have a right to know since it is WE that is always in opposition with me. Is their a secret organization. Does WE mean people on this site or a spirit you have?
Really Nick I would like to Know who are WE? Is WE you and Heaven Net (who everyone thinks is t8).
How many are WE?
Hi kenrch,
Are you ONE in Body and Spirit with the Body of Christ?
If so you will find others who grasp similar understandings at least some of the time when you are among genuine searchers for truth in the one source we share.
None of us yet have the mind of Christ but we are all in a state of rebuilding according to what we know to be truth because it is revealed by God.
We bring our own given insights and have them improved on by the reflections of others we respect.
I am sure you do not find yourself constantly opposed to others understandings but are humbly on the same shared path..Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 27 2006,23:45) Hi kenrch,
Are you ONE in Body and Spirit with the Body of Christ?
If so you will find others who grasp similar understandings at least some of the time when you are among genuine searchers for truth in the one source we share.
None of us yet have the mind of Christ but we are all in a state of rebuilding according to what we know to be truth because it is revealed by God.
We bring our own given insights and have them improved on by the reflections of others we respect.
I am sure you do not find yourself constantly opposed to others understandings but are humbly on the same shared path..
Who gave you the right to speak for ME! I joined No organization. My only leader IS and always will be the Holy Spirit and My saviour Jesus Christ.WE! You and especially you don't speak for me!!!!
You who makes his own rules then breaks them! Please LET IT BE KNOWN THAT NICK HASSAN DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ME.
Next time you say WE please add that I am not included in WE! I'll decide If I agree with a brother or not! YOU DON”T EVER, I MEAN EVER, SPEAK FOR ME.
You must think you are a teacher and leader!
YOU are a sick man, Nick! Not because WE disagree but because you disagree with yourself! Then have the GALL to say WE! You are not in the same body of Christ that I am in.
I'll have no part with your schemes.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2006,01:13) Hi S,
He hates us but we do not know why.
First and far most I don't hate nobody. There you go with the WE. You don't speak for me, Nick. If someone post something and I dissagree then I will tell the brother why I disagree. I don't need you or anyone in the world telling someone how I feel about their statement.Now you've got another “he hates “us” and “we” don't know why?
I have explained this to you Nick over and over . First I tried to speak to you in private. But you snarled and said you ain't seen nothing yet. I'll see you in the Forum. All I did was try to help you. You have been on my case ever since.
As I said you make the rules and only you can break them.If you Think that God is going to doom someone because they couldn't get to water baptism before they died Then you are serving a different god than I.
Don't worry the true colors will come out.
“He hates “us' You are the only one that doesn't know how to be humble. I have no problem with no one else.Quote (seminarian @ June 27 2006,05:51) Hi Nick, thanks for the welcome. What I said is that Romans 10:9 is the Biblical confession of faith. Yes the letter was written to the saints but notice the preceding verse: 8 “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is the word of faith we are PROCLAIMING: 9 That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved.
So notice this is the word of faith that the saints are proclaiming to the unsaved. I also think it would be naive to assume that everyone in each congregation was committed to Christ. Why then would Paul need to write further instructions to the Corinthians about speaking in tongues without interpretation? Notice here:
“If for that reason, the whole assembly may come together to the same place….and there may come in UNLEARNED or UNBELIEVERS, will they not say that you are mad?” (1Corn 14:23) YLT
The unlearned and unbelievers attended meetings with believers. They needed to hear the Bible's way to salvation and the saints needed to be reminded of its proclaimatin. Hope this answers your question.
Seminarian
Boy are you in trouble
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