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Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2006,23:52) Hi,
If God is a trinity then our Father God,
Who we know as God and
Who scripture identifies specifically as God
……….. is not God.That is a major insult to God.
That also makes very many people idolaters of false gods.
Good point NickHi Woutlaw,
Satan must hate it when a little bit of his system of lies gets chipped away exposing the rotting core.I have some things I would like to add to this discussion…
Firstly, if Jesus Christ is God, and if He took our sins upon the Cross when He died, does'nt it strike anyone that God became defiled by our sins? God is too Holy to take the sins of billions upon Himself. So a Jesus Christ who is part of the Trinity who took sins upon Himself is a God who became defiled by our sins. That is clearly unbiblical.
The doctrine of the Incarnation itself, that God became man can be demonstrated to be a pagan concept.When Paul was at Lystra, after healing a cripple the crowd shouted, “The gods have come down to us in human form!” (Acts 14:11-12) Incarnation of a deity is clearly believed also by the pagan Greeks.And where in the world can u find the Hypostatic Union, or the idea that Jesus Christ is a “god-man” or “fully man and fully God”, in Scripture? Thus u have your creeds by the Babylonian Churches with all their lengthy confessions with not an ounce of Truth in them.Quote (Serapion @ April 12 2006,05:36) I have some things I would like to add to this discussion…
Firstly, if Jesus Christ is God, and if He took our sins upon the Cross when He died, does'nt it strike anyone that God became defiled by our sins? God is too Holy to take the sins of billions upon Himself. So a Jesus Christ who is part of the Trinity who took sins upon Himself is a God who became defiled by our sins. That is clearly unbiblical.
The doctrine of the Incarnation itself, that God became man can be demonstrated to be a pagan concept.When Paul was at Lystra, after healing a cripple the crowd shouted, “The gods have come down to us in human form!” (Acts 14:11-12) Incarnation of a deity is clearly believed also by the pagan Greeks.And where in the world can u find the Hypostatic Union, or the idea that Jesus Christ is a “god-man” or “fully man and fully God”, in Scripture? Thus u have your creeds by the Babylonian Churches with all their lengthy confessions with not an ounce of Truth in them.
Hi and welcome S,
Very good points.Only men who do not fear God would dare develop such bizarre doctrines about Him.
If Jesus is the lamb of God, the sacrificial lamb, then to Whom was this sacrifice offered?
If he is the scapegoat for our sins then Whose anger was the punishment taken to satisfy??himself?
No his Father.
He was who he said he was , the Son of God.God was fully revealed as Spirit in Jesus
who was the Son of God
in flesh.Quote (Serapion @ April 12 2006,05:36) I have some things I would like to add to this discussion…
Firstly, if Jesus Christ is God, and if He took our sins upon the Cross when He died, does'nt it strike anyone that God became defiled by our sins? God is too Holy to take the sins of billions upon Himself. So a Jesus Christ who is part of the Trinity who took sins upon Himself is a God who became defiled by our sins. That is clearly unbiblical.
The doctrine of the Incarnation itself, that God became man can be demonstrated to be a pagan concept.When Paul was at Lystra, after healing a cripple the crowd shouted, “The gods have come down to us in human form!” (Acts 14:11-12) Incarnation of a deity is clearly believed also by the pagan Greeks.And where in the world can u find the Hypostatic Union, or the idea that Jesus Christ is a “god-man” or “fully man and fully God”, in Scripture? Thus u have your creeds by the Babylonian Churches with all their lengthy confessions with not an ounce of Truth in them.
Excellent points brother, you stole my thunderGods Blessings
This is my first time in this forum i just got back from the kingdom hall, im not a JW but no one else ever suggested to me that God is not a trinity now I feel like I don't fit anywhere
Hi kt and welcome,
We are a biblical study site that endeavours to find truth by quality scriptural analysis comparing verse with verse. We believe the bible is the Word of God and the absolute truth. We refer to the original texts and supporting documents and take into account culture and other factors.However we have yet to find any evidence that the trinity theory, which was first proposed as a binity about 200ad, and later refined as an unequal, then an equal trinity has any scriptural support whatever.
We can only assume it is a dangerous and blasphemous attack on truth itself sourced from the father of lies.
I no longer believe in a trinity, I believe Jesus is God's son and savior. But I am still having trouble with the third entity. Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is a “person” or a force?
Quote (k.turpin @ April 13 2006,09:56) I no longer believe in a trinity, I believe Jesus is God's son and savior. But I am still having trouble with the third entity. Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is a “person” or a force?
Hi KT,
I will bring up some forums on the subject. God's Spirit is God's Spirit..what other person is there to discuss?John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your rememberance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
Just wondering what your views are on this.
This was KJV maybe you have a different translation but to me this sounds like the “Holy Ghost” is a seperate entity from God the Father, I agree that sounds silly, but what else could this mean ?
Hi kt,
Our God is too small. Scripture says heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain Him. As Paul told the Athenians He is close to us all, yet is in Heaven.Jesus said he worked by the finger of God and he revealed God in him as Spirit in all power and love. God's Spirit poured out in Christ and the apostles did the work of God on earth and this still continues today.
God is Spirit and His Spirit is amazing, so much so that John attributes person qualities to that expression of God at work among us.
Hi KT
Wlecome, this is a good place to discuss these great topics. You can gain much from here if you remain open minded. There are many keen and sensitive minds contributing to the forum.
But always bear in mind that true insight comes not from study alone, though this is certainly necessary, but in union with deep meditation through prayer you will find the answers you seek.There is no third entity, as Nick says we often have too narrow a concept of God.
I think we will continually be learning of Him, even after the resurrection.The Holy Spirit is GOD, (Jn4:24) Eternal, and it can seem therefore to be many things, for when God manifests Himself to man, He does so in differing ways (heb 1)
I believe that we as children of God by rebirth live by His Spirit as any son has the life of their Father in them. That does not make the parent more than one, it makes the life of the parent in a family.Quote (k.turpin @ April 13 2006,08:16) This is my first time in this forum i just got back from the kingdom hall, im not a JW but no one else ever suggested to me that God is not a trinity now I feel like I don't fit anywhere
Hi K.Turpin,Welcome.
What led to your change of mind regarding the Trinity? How did it happen? Look forward to hearing your testimony.
God bless you.
Meanwhile, back to John 1:1…..do not assume that this verse speaks of Jesus' pre-existence as is traditionally taught….mankind has a number of “traditions,” and they are not necessarily correct.
http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/created.htm
http://www.propheticrevelation.net/logos4.htm
http://www.bibletexts.com/versecom/joh01v01.htm
http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/showthread.php?id=171
http://72.14.203.104/search?….k&cd=14Hi,
Was not Satan so clever?Within 2 hundred years of the death of the Saviour he managed to introduce confusion as to the nature of God.
He caused godless men to change the perception of God from how he was revealed as the Father by Jesus to an amalgam God containing Father and Son along with another person derived from the Spirit of God.
Not only was he successful in getting men to formulate such a concept but even to make it become orthodox belief that many died for not accepting it. No longer was God a father and no longer was the Son even a son. These real matters of fact of the nature of God and His Son became relegated to being only titles.
Such teaching insults God Himself. God has been very patient with such nonsense and has allowed many to choose to follow these things without studying the bible for themselves and discovering it was all human folly.That patience will end.
Hi,
If trinity is true God is not a father.
Father is only a title!
He never had an only begotten son.
Jesus is not a son of God more than any other man.
Son of God is just a title!
Their titles are to distinguish their roles within God apparently!Does this not attack the heart of Christianity?
Hi,
Trinity is an intellectual speculation that leads those who accept it away from simple faith in God and salvation through the Son of God from heaven, into a mass of confusion. It is a busy and popular path but beware the pit it leads to.Hi,
Trinity denies that Jesus is the Son of God, the most vital fact in the salvation message.He is taught as only a part of a 'godhead', never separate from God as a son.
“Son of God” becomes only a title.
The Father was thus never a true father and the Son has thus also never been a son.
Neither can we be adopted as sons as our sonship is in him.
Why will none come forward to deny or explain this crucial matter?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 18 2006,23:44) Hi,
Trinity denies that Jesus is the Son of God, the most vital fact in the salvation message.He is taught as only a part of a 'godhead', never separate from God as a son.
“Son of God” becomes only a title.
The Father was thus never a true father and the Son has thus also never been a son.
Neither can we be adopted as sons as our sonship is in him.
Why will none come forward to deny or explain this crucial matter?
I would but you've already made it plain that you don't want to discuss these matters with me:Quote Pg 22, Co equal thread:
We cannot dialogue because you do not accept the God of the Old Testament……….We simply no longer have an agreed basis of discussion.
I will post you anyway, and whether or not you reply is up to you….Quote The Father was thus never a true father and the Son has thus also never been a son.
Ah well….
If I should understand “Son of God” to mean that The Father begat a Son in eternity past, then I will need at least one scripture that speaks of this begettal…..otherwise I will be holding an unscriptural belief.
- The angel Gabriel tells me that the reason Jesus is called “the son of God” is a consequence of His earthly conception and birth (Luke 1:35)….
- Paul tells me that Psalm 2:7 is a resurrection exultation (Acts 13:33, cf. Rom 1:4)….
- The writer of Hebrews tells me that the Father said TO Yahshua: “I will be a Father to Him….” and “He shall be a Son to me” (Heb 1:5)…..
I'm probably not as completely entrenced in my belief that Jesus was not always the Son of God as you might think, but I will need some solid evidence to prove to me that when the Bible calls Jesus the “Son of God” it actually MEANS He was born “before the foundations of the earth were laid”…….I need the scriptural proof.
Blessings
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