The Trinity Doctrine

[kenrch]

It was not christ that did the miracles, but the Father working through Him. You know that. You just want to argue, I'm disappointed.

Joh 5:19 Jesus therefore answered them, “Most certainly, I tell you, “THE SON OF MAN CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF”, but what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things he does, these the Son also does likewise.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 13 2006,03:26)

Although Jesus is the greater, here are some of the similarities that I think they shared, off the top of my head.  I welcome others' insights and thoughts as well. God called and sent out both Both were prophets of the Most High and were equipped by God with power and authority Both were bearers of the righteous covenants of God (law and spirit) Both were used as deliverers Each bore witness of the other (Moses of Christ in Deut 18:15f) Dealing w/ the people cost Moses the promised land in terms of personal sacrifice; Moses pleaded with God at his own expense that God might not destroy the people, if it meant blotting out his own name…so in that regard, like Jesus, he was willing to lay down his life for the sheep Both appeared with Elijah at the Mount of ?Transfiguration Both wrote the song in Rev 15:3f to the Eternal God whom they worship.

Hey Cubes,
You make some interesting points and yes I agree that there are some similarities in their roles. I also agree that Jesus is indeed greater. Interestingly, the writer of Hebrews addressed this very point in Chapter 3 of that book:

HEBREWS 3:1-6
1Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession;
2He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house.
3For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house.
4For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.
5Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later;
6but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house–whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

I really like the house/builder analogy the writer uses here. Moses, as venerated as he is, is still a creature. Jesus, by comparison is his Creator. Moreover, He sustains His creation by the word of His power (Heb 1:3). He is the master builder, we are His house. Yes, I think Yahshua is  greater than Moses, incomprehensively so.

[Sultan]

Quote (kenrch @ Mar. 13 2006,21:54)

It was not christ that did the miracles, but the Father working through Him. You know that. You just want to argue, I'm disappointed. Joh 5:19 Jesus therefore answered them, “Most certainly, I tell you, “THE SON OF MAN CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF”, but what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things he does, these the Son also does likewise.

So you are saying the scriptures are false? Address the scriptures and not me. I gave you two. Please address them are they fasle? Are you saying God was not in Christ as the scripture says? Are you saying power did not go out of Christ to heal the woman with the issue of blood?

[Cubes]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 14 2006,07:52)

Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 13 2006,03:26) Although Jesus is the greater, here are some of the similarities that I think they shared, off the top of my head.  I welcome others' insights and thoughts as well. God called and sent out both Both were prophets of the Most High and were equipped by God with power and authority Both were bearers of the righteous covenants of God (law and spirit) Both were used as deliverers Each bore witness of the other (Moses of Christ in Deut 18:15f) Dealing w/ the people cost Moses the promised land in terms of personal sacrifice; Moses pleaded with God at his own expense that God might not destroy the people, if it meant blotting out his own name…so in that regard, like Jesus, he was willing to lay down his life for the sheep Both appeared with Elijah at the Mount of ?Transfiguration Both wrote the song in Rev 15:3f to the Eternal God whom they worship. Hey Cubes, You make some interesting points and yes I agree that there are some similarities in their roles. I also agree that Jesus is indeed greater. Interestingly, the writer of Hebrews addressed this very point in Chapter 3 of that book: HEBREWS 3:1-6 1Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession; 2He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house. 3For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house. 4For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God. 5Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; 6but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house–whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. I really like the house/builder analogy the writer uses here. Moses, as venerated as he is, is still a creature. Jesus, by comparison is his Creator. Moreover, He sustains His creation by the word of His power (Heb 1:3). He is the master builder, we are His house. Yes, I think Yahshua is  greater than Moses, incomprehensively so.

Hbr 3:1  Hbr 3:1   Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Hbr 3:2   Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses [was faithful] in all his house.
Hbr 3:3   For this [man] was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
Hbr 3:4   For every house is builded by some [man]; but he that built all things [is] God.
Hbr 3:5   And Moses verily [was] faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
Hbr 3:6   But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

True that, Is.  Great reference and addition!

As relates to the subject of the Trinity, however, I feel our conclusions still differ and so I would like to note why:

[OneoftheLordsGenerals]

Go on some of the sites and it may make things clearer. Remember that the mysteries of God are for him, yet what is revealed is for us. Don't put God in this box where you think you have him completely figured out.
Also read the forum under Worship and that may help also. I do not have time to waste arguing this point. I will give tidbits here and there when i have time. I am unable to sift thruogh the pages to answer all, so those that send a pm will most likely be the ones i converse with. So if you truly wanna chat, pm me. thank you. And thanks for those that have pm'd me. It gives a chance for us to communite one on one, without everyone throwing their cents in and confusing the matter.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Mar. 11 2006,00:13)

I believe the above to show that the “angel of God” was the pre-incarnate Jesus. While I do not embrace the traditional teaching of a trinity. I do see the usage of “God” in the OT as a title which refers to the Almighty Father, his begotten Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Son and the Holy Spirit are subject to YHWH, who is the One without beginning or end, and while Jesus was not created He did have a beginning. Jesus is less then the Father but when we've seen Jesus we've seen the Father (at least all we can see of God).

Hi seekingtruth,

Yes that could be the case.
Another possibility is that the angel is another but represents Christ, and Christ represents God as Revelations seems to point to.

Revelation 1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

[Proclaimer]

Quote (OneoftheLordsGenerals @ Mar. 12 2006,16:52)

I agree but we also see that Jesus was called Everlasting Father. (Isaiah 9:6) Yet we know Jesus is the Son. Father here in Ephesians denoting one God(Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) and Father(to whom we are sons and he has ownership over all things as does 'the father of the household') New Testament shows Christ's exaple of always pointing to the Father. The Father points to the Spirit and Son, The Son points to the Father and Spirit, The Spirit points to the Father and The Son. So the Godhead may be glorified. The three personas glorify each other through-out scripture. I won't be able to explain or show the relevance of each scripture you pointed out, just remember that Jesus was man and God. Never seperate the two parts, but know in which some cases it speaks of one part and not the other doesn't mean they are seperate. Matthew 27:46-Jesus as man crying to the Father. Again pointing to the Father. Jesus Christ is a mortal example of how we should live our life.(Being the Word-John 1:1-is God) Mark 1:24-Again talking about Jesus-Holy One of God. Mark 10:18- Never says he isn't good. Gotta read the verse, he never answers there question with an answer, but another question. To see what they would say. When Peter called Jesus the Son of God, Jesus said that the Father had revealed this to him and no man did. That is what Jesus wanted from his questions, to see who truly seeked out God. Where there answer would come from, God or a man made answer. Mark 15:34-same as answer for Matthew 27:46 Mark16:19- Jesus went and sat at the right hand of God, never says on a different throne.(You and two friends can share the same chair, who is at your right hand, the one friend. Even though you share the same chair.) Luke 2:52-Jesus was still a man, he ate, drank, slept and grew in wisdom. Jesus was a mortal example. Luke 6:12-Mortal example Luke 18:19-same answer as Mark 10:18 John 3:2- to Jesus(mortal example) sent by God the Father, which the Jews din't realize the Tri-unity of God. They only knew him as Father. John 8:42-Jesus was sent by God(The Father), Jesus went when he was sent by God-mortal example. God sends us were we should go, we are to go. John 8:54-Jesus humbles himself to the lowly stature, God glorifies him.(Matthew 23:12,Luke 14:11,Luke 18:14,) Also Jesus being the Son-Phillipians 2:5-11. John 9:3-Jesus(mortal example talking about God as His Father-Phillipians 2:5-11) John 13:31-Without seperating The Word(Son of God/God the Son[of does not consist of ownership only but a part of something]) and Jesus(Son of Man) into two different people. They are a union. John 14:1-a good example of Jesus showing him-self to be God in the Flesh. Emmanuel/Immanuel however ya spell it meaning God with us. (literally) John 17:3-The Only true God(Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ-(Mortal example). John 20:17-Mortal example, he humbled himself and being in a different position(as man) he showed the example to follow. Acts 2:22- The man Jesus Acts 2:32- The man Jesus Acts 2:36- God made The man Jesus, Lord and Christ. Lord-stature over all things and Christ being the Annoited One(Savior of man). Acts 3:13- The Word became flesh- then seeing his form as a man, he humbled himself to that of a servant. Phillipians 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. Acts 5:30- Jesus- the mortal example Acts 7:55- Ok same as before, they share same throne. Acts 10:36-Acts 20:21 talk about Jesus(mortal example) Romans 1:7-God(Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) our Father(not God the Father but the Trinity[our Tri-une God]) and from the Lord Jesus Christ(mortal example) Romans 1:8 God(Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)-Jesus(mortal example) Romans 2:16-God(our Tri-une God) will judge by Jesus Christ(mortal example of how we should live, that is what we are judged by) Romans 3:22-Remeber Jesus is a mortal example. I have to stop here because the Library is closing. So here are some scriptures in the NIV i have for you- John 5(whole chapter-mostly towards the end.) Jesus says Moses wrote about him, Well we know Moses only wrote about God. How can this be? Collosians 2:9 Hebrews 1:8 (I would put more but i have to go they are pushing me out.)

To OneoftheLordsGenerals,

Jesus is the everlasting father, not our Heavenly Father. Also Abraham was their father and Jesus was greater than Abraham.

If read correctly, scripture always shows that the glory originates from the Father to the son then to man and the woman. It is however reflected back too. God praises Christ, just as God and Christ can praise man for example.

Revelation 3:4
Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are WORTHY.

But such thinking is not promoting that we are God just as it is not promoting that Christ is God.

What the scriptures teach is a divine or certain order. God » Christ » Man » Woman. For Christ came from God, man came from God but created through Christ, and same with the woman except she also came from man.

This scripture shows us how we are to think about the order of divine and created.

1 Corinthians 11:3 (English-NIV)
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Paul actually wanted us to realise this. But the Trinity doctrine actually blocks one's understanding pertaining to this teaching. First off it doesn't say as the Trinity doctrine does, that Christ is God. Nor is it teaching or setting an example for us to teach that Christ is also the head of God and that they are co-equal.

It actually shows us that the woman came from man and Christ came from God. Just as the woman is not the man, Christ is not God. But the woman is mankind (of man), and Christ is godkind/divine (of God).

John 16:27 (English-NIV)
No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came FROM God.

The conclusion that one should draw from scripture is that Christ is good. But this goodness is not of himself, but comes from God, for all that Christ has is given to him by God. God is the originator and Christ the recipient. That is why Christ has first place in all things. God gives it to him.

John 5:30
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Acts 2:36
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

Colossians 1:15-19
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,

God even gave the same life that he has to Christ:

John 5:26
For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have lif
e in himself;

Again:
God » Christ » Man » Woman

Each is different, and the one preceeding is the head of the one proceeding.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (jbl @ Mar. 12 2006,23:34)

I don't know if I'd consider it fair for me to respond, as I read far more than I contribute to these discussions. However, from reading I think it's a bit of an unfair question to disprove the belief that Jesus had a beginning. God's thoughts are infinite, while ours are finite, time is just a subject human minds cannot fully comprehend, and never will. How can God have always existed, having no beginning and having no end? It blows our minds to try to understand. Jesus I believe was begotten (had a beginning) perhaps even before time. Does that make sense to us? Not really. But, obviously before God created time he wasn't in a frozen state. Time didn't exist but his thoughts must have existed. If he thought of things, perhaps planning his creation of the universe, wouldn't time still progress? We would think so, but we can't comprehend it not existing. God must be beyond time. I dont think “the beginning” really signifies anything, but more or less the beginning of the creation of Earth (as seen in Genesis 1). I believe God must have created Heaven and angels before he created Earth and beast. Am I correct? I can't say, this is just theology trying to answer questions we were never meant to know. A more worrisome question (not to attack anyones beliefs but it really should be a simple question) for those who enter Heaven, what will God look like (if He's a trinity) when they see him? One being, who is three persons. Does God have three bodies bound together? Does he have three heads? Or does he just have multiple personalities? No one has ever seen God. But, we should know what God looks like, as Jesus is image of God, he who was seen Jesus has seen the Father, and we were made in His image. Understanding time is not a topic we were meant to know, the God we worship is something we should know, as it is written: God is not a God of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33). I think God has perfectly displayed what we should know of Him, our sinful behaviour has twisted it dramatically, however. These are just my views. Take care.

Thanks for your post jbl.

I think you were very honest in what you wrote.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Sultan @ Mar. 13 2006,23:17)

Cubes, Thanks for the confirmation. I found Exo. 7:1 an interesting scripture, and beleive that it shows that because someone is called God does not make him the Father, or co-equal. There is only one Father and one Lord Jesus. All the rest is speculatioin based on pre-conceived ideas.

Amen to that Sultan.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (OneoftheLordsGenerals @ Mar. 16 2006,14:42)

Go on some of the sites and it may make things clearer. Remember that the mysteries of God are for him, yet what is revealed is for us. Don't put God in this box where you think you have him completely figured out. Also read the forum under Worship and that may help also. I do not have time to waste arguing this point. I will give tidbits here and there when i have time. I am unable to sift thruogh the pages to answer all, so those that send a pm will most likely be the ones i converse with. So if you truly wanna chat, pm me. thank you. And thanks for those that have pm'd me. It gives a chance for us to communite one on one, without everyone throwing their cents in and confusing the matter.

To OneoftheLordsGenerals

This is exactly what the Trinity doctrine is.

Man's attempt to explain God in a scientific way. But the theory like evolution is full of holes and contradicitions. However like evolution, the majority have fallen for it.

As it is written: “He deceived the whole world”.

You are right. We cannot put God in a box. But we also cannot put him in a triangle.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 17 2006,04:50)

1 Corinthians 11:3 (English-NIV) Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. Paul actually wanted us to realise this. But the Trinity doctrine actually blocks one's understanding pertaining to this teaching. First off it doesn't say as the Trinity doctrine does, that Christ is God. Nor is it teaching or setting an example for us to teach that Christ is also the head of God and that they are co-equal.

Hello t8,

1 CORINTHIANS 11
3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

I'm very glad you raised this verse. This is far from a proof text that disproves the doctrine of the trinity, or even one that challenges it on any level. Can you guess why…….?

The head of a woman is man, yet they are both 100% human, woman is not any LESS human than man. It's solely a matter of authority – NOT ontology.

Quote

It actually shows us that the woman came from man and Christ came from God. Just as the woman is not the man, Christ is not God. But the woman is mankind (of man), and Christ is godkind/divine (of God).

I assume you mean Christ came from God pre-incarnation. Can I have the verse please?

[Proclaimer]

To Is 1:18,

In response to your post above:

You see what you want to see Is 1:18, and what you see is correct, I will give you that. But here is what you do not see by reason of the doctrine you hold to.

1) God and Christ are spoken of as 2 different identities. Not 1.
2) The woman and the man are both man in nature, not identity. i.e., the woman is not a man, she is mankind.
3) That God is the head of Christ, i.e., that God has authority over Christ.
4) That there are 4 identities being spoken not 3. If the Trinity were correct it would say that God is the head of man etc. But the fact that God is the head of Christ actually flies in the face of your doctrine that Christ is God.

Remember this Is 1:18,

1) It is not saying the Father is the head of Christ (which is correct), rather it is saying that GOD is the head of Christ.
2) It is the Father who is God.
3) Jesus Christ is the Lord. All will confess this to the glory of the Father, so you might as well start now rather than later.
4) God made Jesus Lord over his kingdom.

There is no room in scripture for the false doctrine of the Trinity. All who hold to that doctrine need to repent of their idolatory and deception. They need to come out of this Babylonian doctrine and embrace the truth. THERE IS ONE GOD and this God has a son.

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

The Trinity doctrine is not scriptural. Therefore it is not of God. If it is not of God, then who is it of?

[OneoftheLordsGenerals]

I wipe my hands of it. You did not win, for you to have won i would agree. But this is a waste of time. Neither of us are going to change our veiw points. And when i said a box i meant that you can't contain him in a small area. With the trinity doctrine there is no limit. God is still a mystery to us. The triangle represents what we see . But he is not limited to a triangle. As men we try to define him so we can understand him. See we all technically put God in a box, but my box has no lid. What i can grasp i can grasp and what i can't i can't. I am finished with the discussion. I will be leaving this heaven net all together. adious

[truebelief4u]

A review of the following might help…..the Roman Church invented the Trinity. It is not a Biblical Doctrine, it is a doctrine/dogma purely fabricated by the early Roman Church.

http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/matt2819-willis.htm

Please note the Catholics themselves admit this….read the statement of former Cardinal Ratzinger (who is now the POPE), and read what the Catholic Encyclopedia has to say as well.

QUOTE: “Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger:
He makes this confession as to the origin of the chief Trinity text of Matthew 28:19. “The basic form of our (Matthew 28:19 Trinitarian) profession of faith took shape during the course of the second and third centuries in connection with the ceremony of baptism. So far as its place of origin is concerned, the text (Matthew 28:19) came from the city of Rome.” The Trinity baptism and text of Matthew 28:19 therefore did not originate from the original Church that started in Jerusalem around AD 33. It was rather as the evidence proves a later invention of Roman Catholicism completely fabricated. Very few know about these historical facts. END QUOTE.

QUOTE: “The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263:
“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.” END QUOTE

Also note: QUOTE: “The Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge:
“Jesus, however, cannot have given His disciples this Trinitarian order of baptism after His resurrection; for the New Testament knows only one baptism in the name of Jesus (Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:43; 19:5; Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:3; 1 Cor. 1:13-15), which still occurs even in the second and third centuries, while the Trinitarian formula occurs only in Matt. 28:19, and then only again (in the) Didache 7:1 and Justin, Apol. 1:61…Finally, the distinctly liturgical character of the formula…is strange; it was not the way of Jesus to make such formulas… the formal authenticity of Matt. 28:19 must be disputed…” page 435.

The Jerusalem Bible, a scholarly Catholic work, states:
“It may be that this formula, (Triune Matthew 28:19) so far as the fullness of its expression is concerned, is a reflection of the (Man-made) liturgical usage established later in the primitive (Catholic) community. It will be remembered that Acts speaks of baptizing “in the name of Jesus,”…”

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 4, page 2637, Under “Baptism,” says:
“Matthew 28:19 in particular only canonizes a later ecclesiastical situation, that its universalism is contrary to the facts of early Christian history, and its Trinitarian formula (is) foreign to the mouth of Jesus.” END QUOTED MATERIAL.

The reality is, the Trinity is purely an invention of the Roman Church, and there is in actuality no such thing as the “co-equal Trinity.” Biblically, the proper order of authority is the Father (God = Yahweh), the Son (Yashuah = Christ), and the “holy spirit,” which is simply the active force or will of God which He uses to accomplish His purposes (and is not a person at all).

[OneoftheLordsGenerals]

Here are some sites for JWS on this forum

http://www.watchman.org/jw/index.htm

http://www.catholic.com/library/More_Stumpers_for_Jehovah_Wit.asp

http://www.catholic.com/library/Stumpers_for_Jehovah_Witnesse.asp

I myself am not a catholic but i found it on their site, didn't get to read every arguement, but the questions are good.

HERE ARE SOME MORE SITES

http://www.macgregorministries.org/jehovah….ex.html

http://www.irr.org/English-JW/jwfacten.html

http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jwdiff.html
(some of these sites are for non-trinitarians, jw's, mormons and others/not just for jw's)

CHECK OUT SITE ABOVE, VERY GOOD SITE.

[david]

General, you have fullfilled prophecy and proved scipture beautifully. Everytime someone can't actually defend their non-biblical beliefs, they start to beat their fellow slaves. I've seen it again and again. If you can't actually proove what you've been indoctrinated with, and haven't the knowledge to find the scriptures that proove your beliefs, attack a million other half truths and slander. And whose example do you follow?

I hope one day your eyes are opened to the slander of Satan the Devil–how he has tried to confuse God in the minds of everyone, to make him a mystery, someone unknowable.

[david]

Quote

I will be leaving this heaven net all together. adious

Two hours later:

Another post: Slander.

You are from your Father.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (OneoftheLordsGenerals @ Mar. 19 2006,10:52)

I wipe my hands of it. You did not win, for you to have won i would agree. But this is a waste of time. Neither of us are going to change our veiw points. And when i said a box i meant that you can't contain him in a small area. With the trinity doctrine there is no limit. God is still a mystery to us. The triangle represents what we see . But he is not limited to a triangle. As men we try to define him so we can understand him. See we all technically put God in a box, but my box has no lid. What i can grasp i can grasp and what i can't i can't. I am finished with the discussion. I will be leaving this heaven net all together. adious

That's it right there OneoftheLordsGenerals.

It's not about winning and never has been. It is about seeking the truth and changing when the truth is presented to us. It seems to me OneoftheLordsGenerals that you are running away because you lost. But the truth is that you only lose when you fail to let truth change you. If you are wrong and you let truth change you, then you have gained. The only thing you can possibly lose is pride and that is also gain.

Once we think this is about winning and competition, then the truth is lost right there because the motive is wrong. As it is written “seek and you will find”.

It is a wise man who sees the error of his ways and repents OneoftheLordsGenerals. After all what profit can a man gain by ignoring truth and holding onto the traditions of men?

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

If scripture rebukes our belief, then what can a person gain from running away? Perhaps it is too scary to think that a general can be wrong. Would it not be better to be a humble low ranking soldier and let the truth change us. It is much better to be humble and let the LORD exhalt us.

For the first shall be last and the last shall be first.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (OneoftheLordsGenerals @ Mar. 19 2006,12:02)

Here are some sites for JWS on this forum

I think david is the only JW in this BBS.

I wonder if it would be useful to create groups that represent denominations, so that members no what each person represents.

I will start up a discussion in the Feedback & Suggestions based on this idea.

[kenrch]

Quote (Sultan @ Mar. 14 2006,12:18)

Quote (kenrch @ Mar. 13 2006,21:54) It was not christ that did the miracles, but the Father working through Him.  You know that. You just want to argue, I'm disappointed. Joh 5:19  Jesus therefore answered them, “Most certainly, I tell you, “THE SON OF MAN CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF”, but what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things he does, these the Son also does likewise. So you are saying the scriptures are false? Address the scriptures and not me. I gave you two. Please address them are they fasle? Are you saying God was not in Christ as the scripture says? Are you saying power did not go out of Christ to heal the woman with the issue of blood?

Sultan,

Joh 5:19 Jesus therefore answered them, “Most certainly, I tell you, “THE SON OF MAN CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF”, but what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things he does, these the Son also does likewise.

Does this scripture not say that the Father was in Christ and it was by the Father that Christ did the Father's work?

That's what I'm saying! So now what?

[Author]

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