- This topic has 18,300 replies, 268 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
I don't know what is the general view of the members here in the trinity because I'm a newcomer. I don't believe in the trnity but I do recognize Jesus is God. If you want my explanation, u can ask questions from me.
I don't know what is the general view of the members here in the trinity because I'm a newcomer. I don't believe in the trinity but I do recognize Jesus is God. If you want my explanation, u can ask questions from me
Hi Coldfusion,
Welcome, and glad to hear that you do not believe that God is a trinity… you said that Jesus is God and I'd like to hear your reasons for it…
JOHN 17:3
“This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”
(Note, two are mentioned here. One is the ONLY TRUE God. The other is the one whom this only true God sent forth, Jesus Christ. In my experience, the one doing the sending is usually above the one sent.)It's true, Jesus is called Mighty God, in Isaiah, but only our Heavenly Father is ever called “Almighty God.”
1 CORINTHIANS 8:5-6
“For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.”Coldfusion, I'm wondering what you think of these scriptures.
david.
Well, I don't like to debate anyone.
I just want to get the ideas of others in this site.The proposition that I want to defend is – “Jesus is God”
This is important for all to understand.Well, here are the reasons:
Without many explanations, I'll go straight to the point. There are numerous passages that directly confirms that Jesus is God.
As many knows, John 1:1 says the the “Word was God”. In verse 14, it says that the “Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us” so the Word became flesh.
In John 20:28, Thomas declared to Jesus “My Lord and my God”. Jesus didn't rebuke him for saying that he was God, but rebuked him for his unbelief that he resurrected from the dead.
In I John 5:20, it reads :
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.” (KJV)
This testifies that Jesus is God.In Hebrews 1:8, the Father acknowledged Jesus' deity.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (KJV)
In Old Testament, Isaiah prophesied that a child will be born.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (KJV)
Isaiah said that he is a “Mighty God”.
Well, this is for now. If you want to send your comments, it's fine
I believe that the Father is greater than Jesus.
John 14:28 says that the Father is greater than Jesus. He is obedient to the will of the Father. That is because in Phil. 2:5-9, Jesus, although in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God but humbled himself. This is his mission, to humble himself and to glorify the Father.
“And took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death at the cross.”
Of course, when he humbled himself, John 17:3 becomes easy to understand.
Even so, the Son is still subjected to the Father. In I Cor. 15:8,it says that in the end, the Son will deliver the kingdom to God.
“Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.” (KJV)
In the proposition “Jesus is God”, Jesus' subjection to the Father doesn't affect anyhow the proposition given.
(P.S. – May I just ask?
david are you a member of Jehovah's Witnesses?)In I Cor. 8:6, it said that there is only one God, the Father.
However, it said that there is only one Lord, who is Jesus Christ. Does this mean that the Father is not Lord?
1 Cor 8:6 –
“yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.” (NIV)Just as the Pharoah made Joseph Lord over his Kingdom, God has made Jesus Lord over all he has made.
Acts 2:36
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”Also the word LORD in the Olt Testament is YHWH and is translated as LORD. the word Lord is a completely different word. So Jesus is not LORD (YHWH), rather he is Lord.
Quote (coldfusion @ Feb. 04 2006,02:44) Without many explanations, I'll go straight to the point. There are numerous passages that directly confirms that Jesus is God. As many knows, John 1:1 says the the “Word was God”. In verse 14, it says that the “Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us” so the Word became flesh.
To coldfusion,The first scripture that we will look at is probably the most commonly used, when trying to give biblical support for the Trinity doctrine. John 1:1 (English-NIV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.
So when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.
Moving on we seee In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (the). That article is before all other instances of the word 'God' and 'Logos' in John 1:1. (E.g., the Word, The God.)
There is an understanding among Greek scholars that in Greek sentence construction, if a noun does not have a preceding article, (e.g., the) it should be considered an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this, many scholars saw the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but didn't make the difference clear regarding identity and nature.
Is Theos in John 1:1c qualitative? The most likely candidate is that the last instance of 'theos' (in John 1:1c) is qualitative. This is true both grammatically and theologically. (Also, if The Logos was God himself, then the verse would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God and no other.) So we have 2 good reasons now for reading the last word 'God' as qualitive.
An example would be when you call someone an angel. This means that we are saying you are like an angel. But if we say you are the Angel, then we are saying that you are an actual and specific angel even to the exclusion of others being that Angel.
Another example would be to say “John is the man,” which identifies John with a definite and particular person of the human race; but if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” To understand this further, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he has the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek, but most translators deem it necessary to add the “a” to complete the thought. So Judas was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn't rule out that Satan is the Devil because it is not saying that Judas was the actual Devil.
Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil (indefinite), he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, Satan. If a definite meaning were desired the word order would be, 'is the devil'; if an indefinite meaning were desired the word order would be, 'is devil'. Since the word order is, 'devil is', and a form of “I am” comes after the noun, the meaning is qualitative, as it is in John 1:1c.
This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate this passage, “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”
So what kind of being is Jesus? He is a divine being. He is a being with God's nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but the the image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time.
Quote (coldfusion @ Feb. 04 2006,02:44) In John 20:28, Thomas declared to Jesus “My Lord and my God”. Jesus didn't rebuke him for saying that he was God, but rebuked him for his unbelief that he resurrected from the dead.
To coldfusion,The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
Remember that there are many gods and even men and angels are referred to as gods. There is a big difference to having God/divine nature as apposed to being God/The Divine himself.
Quote (coldfusion @ Feb. 04 2006,02:44) In I John 5:20, it reads :
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.” (KJV)
This testifies that Jesus is God.To coldfusion,
1 John 5:20 is often used to prove that Jesus Christ is God.
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true–even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.This scripture is one of those scriptures that can be interpretted in more than one way because of it's construction. I offer you the following as an alternative and then confirm it with other scriptures.
“1 John 5:17 – And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, that we may know Him who is true (Him is referring to God and Jesus came that we may know God); and we are in Him who is true (we are in God), in His Son Jesus Christ (how about adding 'even' at the beginning of this sentence as is so often done to clarify – so, we are following the true God and also following his son, who leads us to God). This is the true God and eternal life.” (the God that Jesus teaches us about, Yahweh, is the true God who offers us eternal life).
To confirm this interpretation, please read the following scriptures:
Jeremiah 10:10
But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King.And
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.So if we read 1 John 5:17 as saying that the true God is Jesus Christ, then John 17:3 would be saying that we may know Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ who Jesus Christ sent. Of course this interpretation is rediculous, but is the only conclusion we can draw if we say that Jesus is the true God.
So the true God is the Father as John 17:3 indicates and the true God sent Jesus Christ.
I conclude this with the following scripture:
John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.I want to classify three points:
1. The Father is God. (John 6:27)
2. Christ is the “power and wisdom” of God (I Cor. 1:24)Now if Jesus is the power and wisdom of God, then he's God! For example, there is a man named Peter. Is his wisdom Peter? Is his heart Peter? Is his soul Peter? Of course!That what makes him Peter.
Now, we ask, is the power and wisdom of God God?Of course! Thats what makes him. If we say that there is only one God, then it follows that his being, his spirit, his wisdom and power is included or else we make him a powerless God. Notice that his word made the world
Heb 11:3
“Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear” (KJV)The Word of God is Christ (John 1:1, Revelation 19:13).
3. The Holy Spirit is (of course) the Spirit of God! Genesis 1:2
Now we ask again, is the Spirit of God God? Of course? John 4:24 says that God is a Spirit. Of course when we say that the Father is God, then his spirit is also included! Some say that the Spirit is Person in the Godhead but the Bible says “Spirit of God”
It is very logical. When I refer to Dan Brown, I refer not only to his hands or feet or his eyes but I refer to all he is. This includes his mind, his flesh, his wisdom, and all of his.
When I say one God, I refer to all what makes him, his wisdom (Christ) and his spirit (Holy Spirit).
Well, this may be too much. Maybe I can't reply or write messages for a few days. Feel free to ask me but maybe I can't reply in a couple of days. Please understand well what I presented above before criticizing me [if there are =) ]and again, I don't seek debates. I just answer and ask according what is written in the Bible and secondly, in my own view point.
Quote (coldfusion @ Feb. 04 2006,02:44) In Hebrews 1:8, the Father acknowledged Jesus' deity. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. (KJV)
Yes Jesus has divine nature. He is a divine being. Everything including his divine nature was GIVEN to him by God. He truly is God's son.You will find that all he has was given. Jesus also called us gods. The word God/god (elohim & theos) are used in many ways. They are not exclusive titles for YHWH only. You need to look at the context to see what God is being talked about.
The god (theos) of this age is obviously a different god to the Almighty God.
Quote (coldfusion @ Feb. 04 2006,02:44) In Old Testament, Isaiah prophesied that a child will be born. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (KJV)
Isaiah said that he is a “Mighty God”.
To coldfusion,Isaiah 9:6 is another very popular scripture that people like to think proves the Trinity.
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”'Here we can see that Jesus is called “Mighty God”. The word in the Hebrew used here is “El” and this word means the following:
1) god, godlike one, mighty one
1a) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
1b) angels
1c) god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
1d) God, the one true God, Jehovah
2) mighty things in nature
3) strength, power“So Jesus is the Mighty El and this can be interpreted to mean that Jesus is the 'Mighty God Like One' which is consistent with the overwhelming amount of scriptures that we have looked at so far. This interpretation is also in total agreement with the fact that, Jesus is the Image of God, and it must also be stressed that Isaiah 9:6 doesn't say “Almighty God”. (The term Almighty God indicates that there are Gods of a lesser position). The term “Mighty God” in Hebrew is ´El Gib·bohr´ and the term “Almighty God in Hebrew is ´El Shad·dai´ and applies uniquely to YHWH.
The other part of the scripture that mentions the term 'Everlasting Father' seems like a contradiction as it seems to indicate that Jesus is the Heavenly Father. The word Father that is used here is “Ab” and this word is the same word that is used when describing Abraham as our Father and this scripture is just a reference to say that Jesus is our Everlasting Father, in other words he is greater than Abraham, but it certainly doesn't say 'Heavenly Father'.
It is very important to read scriptures not only in context but also in agreement with other scriptures, especially since it is possible to interpret some scripture in more than one way, because of the wide varying uses and meanings of some words.
I affirm that the Father is the one true God. When I say that the Father is God, then it follows that his wisdom and power is God. (Just as your mine is T8, granting that it is your real name, your body is T8, and your soul is T8)
I will say again that Christ viewed himself not equal to God although he is (Phil.2:5-8) but humbled himself and took the form of a servant. If Jesus declared, “I am God”, he destroyed his mission on earth.
In John 17:1-3, if he declared that he is God, then he glorified himself, not the Father. That also explains why he said to Mary Magdalene, “your God and my God”
Of course, the passage is true: the Father is the only true God (In John 10:35 “I and my Father are one”) and Jesus Christ, whom you sent. There is no contradiction in this passage that Jesus is God.
Jesus is the Son of God. That's right, no doubt to that. Jesus is God, as written in I John 5:20. Notice that the antecendent of the Son is “true God and eternal life”. You can't make any interpretation for it teaches clearly the divinity of Christ. It doesn't contradict in any way John 17:3 nor I Cor. 8:6.
May I ask: If Jesus is not God, who is he? Is he “a god”? Is he a mere person only, although God created the world through him (Heb. 11:3), the world was created by him (Col. 1:16; John 1:3), pre-existed before Abraham (now that's not human!) – John 8:58, who only hath immortality (I Tim 6:15)?
How could he create a world if he is only human? How could he exist before Abraham if he is only human?In John 1:1, there is no contradiction to the notion that Jesus is God. “and the Word was with God (he is the wisdom and they are one, remember) and the Word was God”. If the translation is really wrong, how come all the versions of the Bible, except the New World Translation renders it “the Word was God” not “the Word was a god”? You mean that all of those translators are wrong? We translate the Bible what is written from the original not because we don't understand it and change it.
Is Jesus “a god”? Then it is henotheistic (the act of worshipping one god without denying the existence of other gods) and not monotheistic (Deut. 6:4)
In John 20:31, it says that Jesus is the Son of God. Correct, he is the Son of God. You mean that if he is the Son of God, he is not God?
Hehe, I'm a new member and I notice that there are many here who doesn't agree that Jesus is God. what is the religion of the most of the members here?
This website promotes the idea that we are the Church and that we do not go to Church. I myself believe that denominations are the works of mens hands and the true Church is the work of Christ. Therefore many here give no credence to denominations and Babylonian philosophies. That said there is also a good represention of people from denominations including: Christadelphians, Jehovahs Witnesses, Catholics, Yahweh only, etc.
One of the reasons for this website is for the Body of Christ to see who Christ is and what the Church really is. Many of us here dislike denominations in the same way God was not very happy when the children of Israel wanted a King. God gave them a King at a price of a tithe and perhaps God allows us to have our Kings (pastors/denominations) for the price of a tithe too. But just as God wants to be our King, we like the children of Israel have chosen to setup men and put them on pedestals instead.
But we are told in Revelation to come out of Babylon. I personally have no interest in going back. I am free and it is the truth that sets me free.
To coldfusion,
Any being that is born of God has his nature. Jesus is the begotten son of God, he has his nature. We too can have his nature.
Christ came to us as a man. Previous to that he was the Word and he is the Word. Yes he is Wisdom too. So Jesus is the Word of God. That is who he is. What he is, is a son. The Father on the otherhand is God. What he is, is the Spirit.
God is the original, Christ is God's image. Christ is the prototype (firstborn). We are images of the prototype.
So If we are begotten are we God? No we are gods. But I am T8 (so to speak). Christ is Jesus/Yeshua, and he is divine in nature. God is YHWH, he is the Divine himself and he shares his nature. God is not a name, rather a title and word that can be applied to many.
If you can understand the difference between identity and nature, then you will understand who and what Christ is. You will then realise that saying that Christ is God, is inadequate. God has many meanings and is only a title. Even Satan is a god.
If Jesus is still God to you, then please show me what the next 2 verses mean?
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.1 Corinthians 15:24-28
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27 For he has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.That was a very nice and truthful post T8, however, allow me to show your post in the correct transliteration from Hebrew to English may I ?
T8's post correctly transliterated from Hebrew to English.
Quote “”””To coldfusion,
Any being that is born of YHWH has his nature. Yahushua is the begotten son of YHWH, he has his nature. We too can have his nature.
Messiah came to us as a man( ie- human flesh ( Yn. John 1:14) Previous to that he was the Word( ie- the logos= speech for YHWH) and he is the Word. Yes he is Wisdom too. So Yahushua is the Word of YHWH. That is who he is. What he is, is a son. The Father on the otherhand is YHWH. What he is, is the( a) Spirit.
YHWH is the original, Messiah is YHWH'S image. Messiah is the prototype (firstborn). We are ( in the) image(s) of the prototype.
So If we are begotten are we YHWH? No we are ( human deities). But I am T8 (so to speak). Messiah is Yahushua, and he is divine in nature. God is YHWH, he is a Mighy One himself and he shares his nature. God( or deity) is not a name, rather a title and word that can be applied to many.
If you can understand the difference between identity and nature, then you will understand who and what Messiah is. You will then realise that saying that Messiah is ( a ) God( ie-is a deity), is inadequate. God( ie-is a deity) has many meanings and is only a title. Even Satan is a god.
If Yahushua is still God( ie- a deity) to you, then please show me what the next 2 verses mean?
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true YHWH, and Yahushua Messiah, whom you have sent.1 Corinthians 15:24-28
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to YHWH the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27 For he has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include YHWH himself, who put everything under Messiah.28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that YHWH may be all in all. “””” Unquote of correct transliteration of T8.
Also, as I have said before, those who think that Messiah's Name was “” Yeshua “” better take another look at the Hebrew language texts again.
Here below is an Article( although NOT written by me but another Person named “” EliYah “” with a ” capitol Y ” in his name), and this place does not belong to me, nor is it run by me either, also my name is ” Eliyah C.” with a lowercase ” y ” and a capitol ” C. “.
However, read this article very carefully comparing all these renderings of Hebrew name “” Yahushua “” which is the true and oldest form of the Messiah and Joshua's son of Nun's name from ” Yeshua ” or ” Yahshua ” and their differences in the Hebrew texts.
http://www.eliyah.com/yahushua.html
I have other things to write about ” gods or deities ” but I will leave that to another subject topic sometime.
Eliyah C.
Coldfusion, I again ask, what is your view of the following scripture. How do you understand it?
1 CORINTHIANS 8:5-6
“For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.”Lets look at the word “god,” as found in the Bible. The Hebrew word translated “God” basically means: Mighty one. In the Bible, it is used with reference to Jehovah, Jesus, Satan, human judges, angels, a person's belly, etc.
How many times is does the word God occur with reference to the angels? Once. To Satan? Once. To the judges of Israel? Once. To Jesus? 2 to 4 depending on how you interepret certain scriptures.
How many times is Jehovah, the Father of Jesus referred to by the word “God?” SEVERAL THOUSAND TIMES. Several thousand times we are specifically told that “Jehovah is God.”
We are told that Jesus Father, Jehovah is “the only true God,” at John 17:3, hence he truly alone fits the title: “ALMIGHTY GOD.” Yes, Jesus was called Mighty God. But only Jehovah is Almighty, and hence, he can be called the only true God. It's true, as 1 Corithians 8 says, there are many gods. But there is only one true God, and several thousands of times in the Bible, a name is attached to the word God and that name is Jehovah (Yahweh).
As the only one who is Almighty, He may truly be called “the Most High.”
PSALM 83:18
“That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.”
How many are the most high? How many can fit into that spot? Where does the Bible say Jesus is the most high, that Jesus is ALmighty? Jesus can certainly be called God, for Mighty he is. But Jehovah “alone” is the most high. He alone is the Almighty God. Thousands of times the scriptures make this abundantly clear.This is a scripure I haven't seen used in a while as proof of the trinity:
Quote In I John 5:20, it reads :
“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.” (KJV)
This testifies that Jesus is God.Jesus himself said: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”—John 17:3.
Yet, many churchgoers give the expression a different meaning. The words in the title come from 1 John 5:20, which says, in part: “We are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting.”
Believers in the Trinity doctrine hold that the demonstrative pronoun “this” (hou´tos) refers to its immediate antecedent, Jesus Christ. They assert that Jesus is “the true God and life everlasting.” This interpretation, however, is in conflict with the rest of the Scriptures. And many authoritative scholars do not accept this Trinitarian view. Cambridge University scholar B. F. Westcott wrote: “The most natural reference [of the pronoun hou´tos] is to the subject not locally nearest but dominant in the mind of the apostle.” Thus, the apostle John had in mind Jesus’ Father. German theologian Erich Haupt wrote: “It has to be determined whether the [hou´tos] of the next proposition refers to the locally and immediately preceding subject . . . or to the more distant antecedent God. . . . A testimony to the one true God seems more in harmony with the final warning against idols than a demonstration of the divinity of Christ.”
Even A Grammatical Analysis of the Greek New Testament, published by Rome’s Pontifical Biblical Institute, states: “[Hou´tos]: as a climax to [verses] 18-20 the ref[erence] is almost certainly to God the real, the true, [in] opp[osition to] paganism (v. 21).”
Often hou´tos, generally translated “this” or “this one,” does not refer to the immediately preceding subject of a phrase. Other scriptures illustrate the point. At 2 John 7, the same apostle and penman of the first letter wrote: “Many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This [hou´tos´] is the deceiver and the antichrist.” Here the pronoun cannot refer to the closest antecedent—Jesus. Obviously, “this” refers to those who denied Jesus. They collectively are “the deceiver and the antichrist.”
In his Gospel, the apostle John wrote: “Andrew the brother of Simon Peter was one of the two that heard what John said and followed Jesus. First this one [hou´tos] found his own brother, Simon.” (John 1:40, 41) It is evident that “this one” refers, not to the last person mentioned, but to Andrew. At 1 John 2:22, the apostle uses the same pronoun in a similar way.
Luke makes similar use of the pronoun, as seen at Acts 4:10, 11: “In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you impaled but whom God raised up from the dead, by this one does this man stand here sound in front of you. This [hou´tos´] is ‘the stone that was treated by you builders as of no account that has become the head of the corner.’” The pronoun “this” clearly does not refer to the man who was healed, though he is the one mentioned just before hou´tos. Certainly, “this” in verse 11 refers to Jesus Christ the Nazarene, who is the “cornerstone” on which the Christian congregation is founded.—Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:4-8.
Acts 7:18, 19 also illustrates the point: “There rose a different king over Egypt, who did not know of Joseph. This one [hou´tos] used statecraft against our race.” “This one” who oppressed the Jews was, not Joseph, but Pharaoh, the king of Egypt.
Such passages confirm the observation made by Greek scholar Daniel Wallace, who says that for Greek demonstratives, “what might be the nearest antecedent contextually might not be the nearest antecedent in the author’s mind.”
“The True One”
As the apostle John wrote, “the true One” is Jehovah, the Father of Jesus Christ. He is the only true God, the Creator. The apostle Paul acknowledged: “There is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are.” (1 Corinthians 8:6; Isaiah 42:8) Another reason that Jehovah is “the true one” referred to at 1 John 5:20 is that he is the Source of truth. The psalmist called Jehovah “the God of truth” because He is faithful in all He does and cannot lie. (Psalm 31:5; Exodus 34:6; Titus 1:2) Referring to his heavenly Father, the Son said: “Your word is truth.” And regarding his own teaching, Jesus stated: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me.”—John 7:16; 17:17.
Jehovah is also “life everlasting.” He is the Source of life, the One giving it as an undeserved gift through Christ. (Psalm 36:9; Romans 6:23) Significantly, the apostle Paul said that God is “the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him.” (Hebrews 11:6) God rewarded his Son by raising him from the dead, and the Father will give the reward of everlasting life to those who serve Him with all their heart.—Acts 26:23; 2 Corinthians 1:9.
Hence, what conclusion should we come to? That Jehovah, and no one else, is “the true God and life everlasting.” He alone is worthy to receive exclusive worship from those whom he created.—Revelation 4:11.
david
Quote 2. Christ is the “power and wisdom” of God (I Cor. 1:24) Now if Jesus is the power and wisdom of God, then he's God!
hmmm. I don't know that this scripture has ever been used as one of the proofs of the trinity before.
I'm not sure I completely understand your reasoning.
At Rom 1:16, we are told that the good news is God's power. At 1 Cor 1:18, we are told that the speech about the torture stake is God's power.Now, according to your reasoning, this would mean that these two similar scriptures reveal that the Good news or the news about Jesus ransom sacrifice is….God.
Is that correct?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
