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Jesus origins are old from, ancient times. His genealogy goes back to Adam.
It would be nice if I knew what I was answering. Do you believe Jesus to be God incarnate?B.
Quote (k4c @ Dec. 05 2005,01:14) If there is a co-eternal, co-equal God the Spirit then God must be a trinity Spirit. God is three co-eternal, co-equal Spirits.
John 4:24 “God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.''
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.'' The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
God the Holy Spirit.
I can find any verses that speak of God the co-eternal, co-equal Holy Spirit but who cares has long as it sounds good.
So here is how my new trinity God goes.
Since God is Spirit and eternal and the Holy Spirit is God and is eternal then that imakes two eternal God the Spirits. But now since Jesus is eternal and is a life giving Spirit then that makes three co-eternal, co-equal God the Spirits.
If anyone disagrees with my new doctrine we'll just burn them at the sake, torture them or just throw them in prison. I figure if we burn and torture enough people who disagree there will be no one left to refute my new doctrine. Behold, a new orthodox belief.
Who's up for it…
Hi k4c,
The Holy Spirit IS the Spirit of God-they are never more than one, but God is in heaven and His Spirit accomplishes His purposes everywhere.But the Son is begotten from the Father and was with the Father. So two beings here. They become one in will by the complete submission of the Son to the Father who lives in him and accomplishes His will through him.
It is the Son who was sent and came in the flesh and was filled with God as Spirit at his Baptism. That Spirit, now also known as the Spirit of Christ, is now shared among his body on earth.
Hi bastion,
Do you believe Jesus was before Abraham, David, John the baptist. Scripture says he was. How can this be?Greetings,
My name is Sultan and this is my first post. I have enjoyed all of you guys input, and look foward to helping clarify the person of Christ from the Bible, and not man's opinion.
I am writing a book on the subject of “The Logos”. I feel it is the missing link to understanding Christ. Let me give you a short explanation on my understanding of the pre-existence of the Word. I say the Word because we know that in the beginning was the Word. I believe from scripture that the Word is eternal and not created, because when you think about where words come from it becomes obvious.
Our words come from our mind. I don't believe that God's Word is any different. He comes from the very mind of God. Jesus said, “From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.” Now that does not make the Word God , but it does make Him the full expression of God. To say that God's Word had a begining is to say that there was a time when God was not thinking, or His mind was inoperable, but when we examine “Logos” it is defined as thought. I don't want to go into depth just yet because I want to know if I am making sense to you.
I agree that the trinity is false in it's assumptions, and my desire is not to rehash that, but to make sense of the “Word of God.” It will be explained in depth in my book, but I would love you guy's feedback on my thoughts.Quote (Bastian @ Dec. 07 2005,15:10) Because He was the Logos.
Hi bastion,
I agree. So his human geneology goes back to Adam but his soul-his heart and mind and personality-was from the beginning with God. He partook of flesh to be like to us.Quote (Sultan @ Dec. 07 2005,15:10) Greetings,
My name is Sultan and this is my first post. I have enjoyed all of you guys input, and look foward to helping clarify the person of Christ from the Bible, and not man's opinion.
I am writing a book on the subject of “The Logos”. I feel it is the missing link to understanding Christ. Let me give you a short explanation on my understanding of the pre-existence of the Word. I say the Word because we know that in the beginning was the Word. I believe from scripture that the Word is eternal and not created, because when you think about where words come from it becomes obvious.
Our words come from our mind. I don't believe that God's Word is any different. He comes from the very mind of God. Jesus said, “From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.” Now that does not make the Word God , but it does make Him the full expression of God. To say that God's Word had a begining is to say that there was a time when God was not thinking, or His mind was inoperable, but when we examine “Logos” it is defined as thought. I don't want to go into depth just yet because I want to know if I am making sense to you.
I agree that the trinity is false in it's assumptions, and my desire is not to rehash that, but to make sense of the “Word of God.” It will be explained in depth in my book, but I would love you guy's feedback on my thoughts.
Welcome sultan,
Does a word exist before it is spoken? No. As a thought it is not a word but it must be spoken to become a word. Likewise a breath does not exist until it is breathed and we are from the breath of God. To say the Word existed as a word when it was only a thought is not logical.Just because the Word was with God in the beginning does not mean it always existed with God. In fact the opposite is suggested surely. We do not understand the realm before time but should not assume the Word was eternal just because it was from eternity.
The term “pre-existence” is an oxymoron. What you mean is surely “existed in a form before becoming physical”. That should not surprise us that such things happen as God is spirit and angels do not have physical bodies usually and both preceded the creation of man.
Just because the Word is from God does not state that he is the “full expression of God” Scripture says he is the exact image but what image is as great as the original that it reflects? You and I are greater than our thoughts or our words, which partially express us but do not equal us and surely it is the same with God and the Word.
Scripture does not say Jesus was the fullness of deity. What it does say is that he was of divine nature and humbled [Phil 2.5-6]himself to partake of flesh. It then says that he was like to us in all ways, even less than the angels for a time. Then it says that the “Fullness of deity dwelled in him” [Coll 2.9]
So he was not that which dwelled in him was he?
No he was the pure vessel for God.
2Cor 5.19
“God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself”We too can have this privilege
2Cor 4.5f
“..Christ, who is the image of God….But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves”Nick thanks for your reply. You asked does a word exist before it is spoken? Of course it does. It exists in the mind of the speaker. I am typing words to you, but I am not speaking them. Are they still words? The term Logos is translated in english as word, but is not limited to it's english interpretation.
Hi sultan,
I disagree. A thought is not a word or none of us would need to speak. ESP would be the vogue. Something has to happen before a word appears. It takes an action to make it a word. A word has to be spoken or written before it is a word.Do you suppose though that we could be limiting the term “Logos” by only interpreting it as “Word”. Considering that the Logos also means thought,principle,reason,logic. Any Greek concordance will give Logos the definitions mentioned above. Here's the Strong's Concordance's definition:
3056 logos log'-os from 3004; something said (including the thought); by implication, a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension, a computation; specially, (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (i.e. Christ):–account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say(-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.. What do you think?Hi sultan,
You must remember that a concordance is derived from how the translator[and his bias] has translated the Word. So it is a reflection of him as well. Strong's is from the KJV and the KJV has trinitarian bias.We have many thoughts that it is just as well we do not express. If we expressed every thought the world would be in a constant state of noisy confusion and rioting. If we do express words without proper consideration we are called “thoughtless”.
Some stroke sufferers can think but not express themselves. Some sufferers of frontal lobe syndrome express all thoughts without any control.
Hi,
Getting back to the subject at hand it is amazing to me that misunderstanding of Jn 1.1 should spark an apostasy that drew most believers away after it's inventors for nearly 2000 years. Even in the light of knowledge of the divine nature of the Son of God in Phil 2.5-6 men would insist he was not that which he said he was, but his own father instead.“The road is narrow and few will choose it”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 07 2005,19:58) Hi,
Getting back to the subject at hand it is amazing to me that misunderstanding of Jn 1.1 should spark an apostasy that drew most believers away after it's inventors for nearly 2000 years. Even in the light of knowledge of the divine nature of the Son of God in Phil 2.5-6 men would insist he was not that which he said he was, but his own father instead.“The road is narrow and few will choose it”
You said a mouth full there. Thanks for your responses. It is funny how the religious organizations in Jesus' day did the same thing. They developed their own traditions in addition to the scriptures, and then declared that if you were not one of them you were a heretic. I'm glad that when Jesus came He spoke the truth and rebuked the pharisees, saducees, and scribes, and Jesus is doing the same today with His Word.
I just left a friends house and was sharing with them about how theologians will talk about a hypostatic union( two natures in Christ being inseperable, etc) in one place, and then when Jesus says,” No man knows the time not even the Son.” The same theologians will talk about how He is only talking from His humanity.All of a sudden the inseperable natures became seperable again. Some crazy stuff going on out there.Hi sultan,
One lie leads to the necessity for many more.
Prov Ch 9 compares the woman Wisdom with the seductive Whore.
Of wisdom it says
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding”Of the Whore[of Babylon]it says
“The woman of folly is boisteroous, she is naive and knows nothing. She sits at the doorway of her house on a seat by the high places of the city, calling to those who pass by, who are making their paths straight
'Whoever is naive, let him turn in here'
and to him who lacks understanding she says
'Stolen water is sweet; and bread eaten in secret is pleasant'
But he does not know the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of Sheol”So ignorance of God
and the Word of God
and the lack of fear of God
combined with the thrill of intellectual vanity
is the trap for men.Such is trinity.
Quote (Sultan @ Dec. 08 2005,09:10) Greetings,
My name is Sultan and this is my first post. I have enjoyed all of you guys input, and look foward to helping clarify the person of Christ from the Bible, and not man's opinion.
I am writing a book on the subject of “The Logos”. I feel it is the missing link to understanding Christ. Let me give you a short explanation on my understanding of the pre-existence of the Word. I say the Word because we know that in the beginning was the Word. I believe from scripture that the Word is eternal and not created, because when you think about where words come from it becomes obvious.
Our words come from our mind. I don't believe that God's Word is any different. He comes from the very mind of God. Jesus said, “From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.” Now that does not make the Word God , but it does make Him the full expression of God. To say that God's Word had a begining is to say that there was a time when God was not thinking, or His mind was inoperable, but when we examine “Logos” it is defined as thought. I don't want to go into depth just yet because I want to know if I am making sense to you.
I agree that the trinity is false in it's assumptions, and my desire is not to rehash that, but to make sense of the “Word of God.” It will be explained in depth in my book, but I would love you guy's feedback on my thoughts.
Hello Sultan,In the beginning was the word. But the beginning here is the beginning of creation not the beginning of the beginning if you know what I mean.
In the VERY beginning there was God. According to scripture God is a spirit (John 24:4). This Spirit thought, spoke, and created the Word. The Word is the beginning of all creation ( Rev.3:14 ). From that point on God used the Word to create everything. God speaks things into existence using the Word.
God said “let there be light” and there was light. Why is this so hard to believe? I think it's all in our religious upbringing some things are rooted deep.
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. That's why as a boy Jesus could speak to the Pharisee who were amazed at His knowledge of the Word.As far as I know that's it. Jesus was not eternal nor was he with the Father. From the Bible I understand that the Word was in the beginning. Their is no scripture saying that before the Word there was Jesus or Michael. But if you look it that way Michael was befoe Jesus but not the Word.
Hi kenrch,
Good stuff.Who was Jesus Christ?
Was he only in existence from his conception?
Was he only like us, flesh with the breath of God?
Mary was his mother but who was his father?
If his Father was God Himself does that not make him possibly different?If so then who CAME IN the flesh? If Christ did not exist before his birth then nobody did. But 1Jn 4.2f says
“By this you will know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God”
And again in 2 Jn 1.7 says
” For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh”
So according to John, Jesus Christ WAS before he was conceived. He said the same himself many times.So who was he known as before his cinception. John tells us again in 1Jn 1.1f” What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life-and that life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us-what we have seen and proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ”
Jesus Christ=The Word=The Son of God.
Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 07 2005,22:13) Quote (Sultan @ Dec. 08 2005,09:10) Greetings,
My name is Sultan and this is my first post. I have enjoyed all of you guys input, and look foward to helping clarify the person of Christ from the Bible, and not man's opinion.
I am writing a book on the subject of “The Logos”. I feel it is the missing link to understanding Christ. Let me give you a short explanation on my understanding of the pre-existence of the Word. I say the Word because we know that in the beginning was the Word. I believe from scripture that the Word is eternal and not created, because when you think about where words come from it becomes obvious.
Our words come from our mind. I don't believe that God's Word is any different. He comes from the very mind of God. Jesus said, “From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.” Now that does not make the Word God , but it does make Him the full expression of God. To say that God's Word had a begining is to say that there was a time when God was not thinking, or His mind was inoperable, but when we examine “Logos” it is defined as thought. I don't want to go into depth just yet because I want to know if I am making sense to you.
I agree that the trinity is false in it's assumptions, and my desire is not to rehash that, but to make sense of the “Word of God.” It will be explained in depth in my book, but I would love you guy's feedback on my thoughts.
Hello Sultan,In the beginning was the word. But the beginning here is the beginning of creation not the beginning of the beginning if you know what I mean.
In the VERY beginning there was God. According to scripture God is a spirit (John 24:4). This Spirit thought, spoke, and created the Word. The Word is the beginning of all creation ( Rev.3:14 ). From that point on God used the Word to create everything. God speaks things into existence using the Word.
God said “let there be light” and there was light. Why is this so hard to believe? I think it's all in our religious upbringing some things are rooted deep.
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. That's why as a boy Jesus could speak to the Pharisee who were amazed at His knowledge of the Word.As far as I know that's it. Jesus was not eternal nor was he with the Father. From the Bible I understand that the Word was in the beginning. Their is no scripture saying that before the Word there was Jesus or Michael. But if you look it that way Michael was befoe Jesus but not the Word.
Thanks for your response. If we stay according to the scriptures you are right the Bible only goes as far back as the begining. I think I'll stay there. In my book I'll be dealiong with the fact that Jesus was the Word before He was manifested in the flesh. Alot of people say that Jesus was “eternally begotten”. It's a big crock to try and justify the fact that Jesus was not created. Which I like the term brought forth myself, but nevertheless if we could go back to the true beginig (hypothetically speaking) we would fing Yahweh all by Himself.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 08 2005,22:03) Hi kenrch,
Good stuff.Who was Jesus Christ?
Was he only in existence from his conception?
Was he only like us, flesh with the breath of God?
Mary was his mother but who was his father?
If his Father was God Himself does that not make him possibly different?If so then who CAME IN the flesh? If Christ did not exist before his birth then nobody did. But 1Jn 4.2f says
“By this you will know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God”
And again in 2 Jn 1.7 says
” For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh”
So according to John, Jesus Christ WAS before he was conceived. He said the same himself many times.So who was he known as before his cinception. John tells us again in 1Jn 1.1f” What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life-and that life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us-what we have seen and proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ”
Jesus Christ=The Word=The Son of God.
Nick,Ok, In the beginning was Jesus and Jesus was with God and was God. Does that satisfy you?
Who is the word?
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH…..3 And GOD SAID, Let there be light: and there was light……
God spoke and the world was created. By the word of God are all things made.
God is the word. YHWH God alone is the creator.Deut 18:18-19 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put MY WORDS in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them ALL THAT I SHALL COMMAND HIM. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME, I will require it of him.
This shows that Yahshua spoke on behalf of YHWH. He was speaking God’s words to the people. If he spoke God’s words then YHWH is the word.
John 8:39-40 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. “But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has TOLD YOU THE TRUTH WHICH I HEARD FROM GOD. Abraham did not do this.
Yahshua confirms that the truth he speaks he heard from God. They are God’s words spoken by Yahshua on behalf of God. YHWH God is the word.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; BUT AS MY FATHER HATH TAUGHT ME, I SPEAK THESE THINGS.
Again he states that he speaks on behalf of God. He speaks God’s words for him as his representative here on earth. Who is the owner of the words Yahshua speaks – God. Again, the word is YHWH.
John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
And once again he states the same. Who is the word – YHWH God.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
God’s spirit dwelling in Yahshua speaks to him and he speak those words to us. Once again the God is the word.
Revelation 1:1-2 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD GAVE UNTO HIM, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the WORD OF GOD, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Once again YHWH has spoken to Yahshua who has in turn sent an angel to John to speak these things to him. YHWH is the word. Yahshua was YHWH’s representative on earth and spoke that which was given to him to speak from YHWH. Here in Revelation we see that the angel is now speaking on behalf of Yahshua to John. Nobody would consider the angel to be the word yet many consider Yahshua, who was sent into the world to speak God’s word for God, to be the word. The angel has been sent to John as Yahshua’s representative in the same way that Yahshua is YHWH God’s anointed representative.
YHWH our almighty Elohim is the word.
1 Kings 12:22 But the WORD OF GOD came unto Shemaiah the man of God, saying,
1 Chronicles 17:3 And it came to pass the same night, that the WORD OF GOD came to Nathan, saying,
Yahshua did not come to these people, YHWH God spoke to these people.
Mark 7:13 Making the WORD OF GOD of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
The word of God spoken about here is the Law. The Law was spoken by God and written down for the people.
Luke 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the WORD OF GOD came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Yahshua did not come to John in the wilderness. YHWH God spoke to John.
Luke 5:1 And it came to pass, that, as the people pressed upon him to hear the WORD OF GOD, he stood by the lake of Gennesaret,
They came to hear YHWH God’s words. These people looked upon Yahshua as the Messiah that had been promised and they new the one anointed by God spoke for YHWH God.
Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the WORD OF GOD with boldness.
In the same way that Yahshua was filled with the spirit of YHWH the disciples were also filled with the spirit of YHWH and spoke YHWH God’s words as his representatives.
Father YHWH God is the word.
FATHER = YHWH = GOD = THE WORD
The word became flesh when YHWH God's representative on earth brought his word to the people. An annointed human being was speaking God's word on his behalf.
Quote (Ramblinrose @ Dec. 09 2005,18:29) Who is the word? Genesis 1:1 In the beginning GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN AND THE EARTH…..3 And GOD SAID, Let there be light: and there was light……
God spoke and the world was created. By the word of God are all things made.
God is the word. YHWH God alone is the creator.Deut 18:18-19 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put MY WORDS in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them ALL THAT I SHALL COMMAND HIM. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto MY WORDS WHICH HE SHALL SPEAK IN MY NAME, I will require it of him.
This shows that Yahshua spoke on behalf of YHWH. He was speaking God’s words to the people. If he spoke God’s words then YHWH is the word.
John 8:39-40 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. “But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has TOLD YOU THE TRUTH WHICH I HEARD FROM GOD. Abraham did not do this.
Yahshua confirms that the truth he speaks he heard from God. They are God’s words spoken by Yahshua on behalf of God. YHWH God is the word.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; BUT AS MY FATHER HATH TAUGHT ME, I SPEAK THESE THINGS.
Again he states that he speaks on behalf of God. He speaks God’s words for him as his representative here on earth. Who is the owner of the words Yahshua speaks – God. Again, the word is YHWH.
John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
And once again he states the same. Who is the word – YHWH God.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
God’s spirit dwelling in Yahshua speaks to him and he speak those words to us. Once again the God is the word.
Revelation 1:1-2 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which GOD GAVE UNTO HIM, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the WORD OF GOD, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Once again YHWH has spoken to Yahshua who has in turn sent an angel to John to speak these things to him. YHWH is the word. Yahshua was YHWH’s representative on earth and spoke that which was given to him to speak from YHWH. Here in Revelation we see that the angel is now speaking on behalf of Yahshua to John. Nobody would consider the angel to be the word yet many consider Yahshua, who was sent into the world to speak God’s word for God, to be the word. The angel has been sent to John as Yahshua’s representative in the same way that Yahshua is YHWH God’s anointed representative.
YHWH our almighty Elohim is the word.
1 Kings 12:22 But the WORD OF GOD came unto Shemaiah the man of God, saying,
1 Chronicles 17:3 And it came to pass the same night, that the WORD OF GOD came to Nathan, saying,
Yahshua did not come to these people, YHWH God spoke to these people.
Mark 7:13 Making the WORD OF GOD of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
The word of God spoken about here is the Law. The Law was spoken by God and written down for the people.
Luke 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the WORD OF GOD came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Yahshua did not come to John in the wilderness. YHWH God spoke to John.
Luke 5:1 And it came to pass, that, as the people pressed upon him to hear the WORD OF GOD, he stood by the lake of Gennesaret,
They came to hear YHWH God’s words. These people looked upon Yahshua as the Messiah that had been promised and they new the one anointed by God spoke for YHWH God.
Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the WORD OF GOD with boldness.
In the same way that Yahshua was filled with the spirit of YHWH the disciples were also filled with the spirit of YHWH and spoke YHWH God’s words as his representatives.
Father YHWH God is the word.
FATHER = YHWH = GOD = THE WORD
The word became flesh when YHWH God's representative on earth brought his word to the people. An annointed human being was speaking God's word on his behalf.
Hi Ram, (you don't mind if I call you Ram, do you?)Scripture says In the beginning was the Word, the Word was WITH God and the Word was God.
God spoke the word. Therefore God created the Word. The Word was already part of Him (God) before God spoke. The Word was in His Mind just as you think before you type, then when you type you created the word you were thinking of.It was through the Word that God created everything. Jesus said that He is the beginnng of God's creation (Rev.3:14).
Jesus was the beginning of the creation of God. The first thing God created was the Word.
Then the Word became flesh–Jesus– and dwelt among us.
Jesus did not become Jesus and Michael, well, as you can see Michael isn't even in the picture. Michale was created by the Word which came from the Father.
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