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Dear Nick,
You said, “It is the Pharisees who made the false accusation that Jesus Christ was claiming to be God.”
Let us look at what the bible says about this:
Mark 14:60-64 (NLT)
60 Then the high priest stood up before the others and asked Jesus, “Well, aren't you going to answer these charges? What do you have to say for yourself?” 61 Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?” 62 Jesus said, “I am, and you will see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming back on the clouds of heaven.” F87 63 Then the high priest tore his clothing to show his horror and said, “Why do we need other witnesses? 64 You have all heard his blasphemy. What is your verdict?” And they all condemned him to death.The Pharisees did not make a false accusation. They accused Jesus. They asked Him, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?” Jesus said, “I am.” When Jesus said this, Jesus was saying, “I am God.” He said specifically the words, “I am” in order to reference God calling Himself “I am” in scripture. They accused Him of blasphemy, of saying that He is God. Jesus did not defend Himself. Jesus did not say, “You are wrong. I am not God.” Instead, Jesus said, “I am.” He agreed with them.
The accusations were not false. They were true accusations. So, they killed Jesus. However, they killed Jesus because they didn't believe Him. They did not believe Jesus is God, and so they wanted to prove Him wrong. They thought, that if they killed Him, this would prove He was not God. However, the opposite happened. When Jesus died there was an earthquake that caused the temple to collapse.
You must understand that Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are in perfect unity. That is why we say trinity, for it means “Tri-unity.” Three are one. There is one God. And the three are one.
Rom 2.11f
” For there is no partiality with God. For all who have sinned without the law WILL ALSO PERISH without the Law, and ALL WHO HAVE SINNED UNDER THE LAW WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW;”You placed emphasis on the wrong part. If you are without the law, you WILL PERISH without the law. However, if you have the law, you WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW. This means that God shows no favoritism. Whether you are gentile or Jew, you will be judged. It also means that without the law, you will die. However, if you have the law, you will be judged by the law.
Paul also said later in that chapter that everyone has the law for it is written inside of them.
Romans 2:14,15 (NLT)
14 Even when Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, instinctively follow what the law says, they show that in their hearts they know right from wrong. 15 They demonstrate that God's law is written within them, for their own consciences either accuse them or tell them they are doing what is right.It also says we will be judged for what we have done. The law is about what we do or say. The law gives details on what we should not do. It tells us what is wrong. This law is also in our conscience. We know what is right or wrong. And so, we will be judged for what we have done.
Romans 2:5b & 6 (NLT)
For there is going to come a day of judgment when God, the just judge of all the world, 6 will judge all people according to what they have done.The bible also says,
James 2:10 (NLT) And the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as the person who has broken all of God's laws.
If you break one law, you have broken them all. The point of this is to show that we are sinners. The bible says in Romans 3:10b (NLT) No one is good – not even one. Have you ever done anything wrong in your life? If you have done even one wrong thing, then you are a sinner.
If you Jesus was to come back today, and judge you, what would you say? What would you say if Jesus said, “You are no good. Why should I let you into Heaven?”
You said, “Mediators are used in all sorts of disputes. But how fair would it be if you turned up to meet with your opponent and a mediator and you found your opponent WAS your mediator? How just would that be?”
What you are saying is that your opponent is God, and Jesus is your mediator. Why is your opponent God? Why are you fighting with Him?
And how is Jesus your mediator when He is also your judge? (John 5:22)
You said, “As Peter said you must repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
This is true, you must be born again (John 3:3). To be born again, you must be baptized in Spirit. To be baptized in Spirit is to recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit. John the baptist said:
Matthew 3:11 (NLT)
“I baptize with water those who turn from their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is far greater than I am – so much greater that I am not even worthy to be his slave. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”The question is: Do you have the Holy Spirit? Have you been born again?
You said, “God did not come in the flesh. Remember, He sent his only begotten Son.”
The bible says,
Philippians 2:5-6
5 Your attitude should be the same that Christ Jesus had. 6 Though HE WAS GOD, he did not demand and cling to his rights as God. 7 He made himself nothing; F5 he took the humble position of a slave and appeared in human form.You said, “He was given ALL authority by the Father.”
God gave ALL authority to Jesus. What this means is that Jesus is equal with God. This proves that Jesus and God are one. Jesus is equal with God. They have the same authority. Why would God do that? Why would God give Jesus all His authority if Jesus was seperate from God? That defies logic. By doing that, you are saying there are two Gods. Do you believe that? Do you believe there are two Gods?
You said, “Remember, He sent his only begotten Son.”
This is true. You must understand a few things though. You must understand the word “begotten.” If I was to go out to my workshop and create a toy, this would be my creation. It would be something I created. Would I call this thing something I have “begotten”? No, because things I create are not begotten, they are created. We only use the word “begotten” in relation to children. If I were to have a child, would I say, “This is my son who I created.” No. We don't create children. They are begotten.
Why do we say this? We say “begotten” because it means, “of”. I am saying that my child is “of” me. The toy I created is not “of” me. It is seperate. It is something that I created. However, a child is “of” me. It has all my characteristics. It shares my genes. My child is a part of me.
When Jesus called Himself, the “son of God,” He was saying, “I am of God.” He was saying that He was a part of God. God was in Him, and He was in God. They are united as one.
Jesus also called Himself the “son of Man.” So, tell me, which is it? Is He the son of God or the son of Man? Did He come from God or did He come from Man? The whole point is that Jesus was both God and Man. Jesus was God in the flesh. He was God as a man. That is why He said,
John 14:8-11 (NLT)
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and we will be satisfied.” 9 Jesus replied, “Philip, don't you even yet know who I am, even after all the time I have been with you? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking to see him? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words I say are not my own, but my Father who lives in me does his work through me. 11 Just believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or at least believe because of what you have seen me do.Now, Jesus is God's Word. That is established in John chapter one. I am sure you won't argue against that. It is pretty straight forward. This is important: You cannot seperate God's Word from God. They are not two individual parts. They are one. Your word is YOURS. Everytime you speak, your words come out of your mouth. They are your words. Everytime you speak, your words are begotten. Your words are “of” you.
God's Word was begotten. Although, I prefer the way it is said in Proverbs.
Proverbs 8:24 (KJ)
When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.God's Word was always in God. It was always a part of God. God's Word was always God. And, it still is God. However, there was a time when God was silent. His Word was in Him. Then He spoke. His Word was “brought forth.” When God spoke, His Word was “begotten.”
And what happened when God spoke??
Genesis 3:1 (NLT) Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
6 And God said, “Let there be space between the waters, to separate water from water.”
9 And God said, “Let the waters beneath the sky be gathered into one place so dry ground may appear.”
14 And God said, “Let bright lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. They will be signs to mark off the seasons, the days, and the years. 15 Let their light shine down upon the earth.”
20 And God said, “Let the waters swarm with fish and other life. Let the skies be filled with birds of every kind.”
24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth every kind of animal – livestock, small animals, and wildlife.”
26 Then God said, “Let us make people F2 in our image, to be like ourselves. They will be masters over all life – the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the livestock, wild animals, F3 and small animals.”All things were created through Jesus.
Jesus is the son of God. However, this does not mean Jesus is seperate from God. They are one and the same. They are equal. They are one. That is why Jesus said, “The father and I are one.” (John 10:30)
That is also why the Pharisees killed Jesus for claiming to be the son of God. When Jesus said this, He was claiming to be God. Jesus never denied this. He never once said, “I am not God.” Instead, Jesus agreed with the Pharisees. He said, “I AM.”
Quote (beenblake @ Oct. 28 2005,03:52) Dear kenrch, You said, “Jesus doesn't want sacrifice He wants compassion.”
1 Samuel 15:22 (NLT)
But Samuel replied, “What is more pleasing to the LORD: your burnt offerings and sacrifices or your obedience to his voice? Obedience is far better than sacrifice. Listening to him is much better than offering the fat of rams.Matthew 10:38 (NLT)
If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine.John 14:15 (NLT)
“If you love me, obey my commandments.You said, “Like it or not I'm part of the God family, His brother and God's son.”
I like it. I want you to be a part of God's family. I do not think it's by mistake that you capitalized the word “His” giving diety to Christ. You also said, “His” in reference to God. You do believe Jesus is your God.
Psalms 33:20 (NLT)
We depend on the LORD alone to save us. Only he can help us, protecting us like a shieldDo you believe that Jesus is your Savior? If you do, then you believe that Jesus is your God. Only God, the LORD, can save people.
John 10:22-38 (NLT)
22 It was now winter, and Jesus was in Jerusalem at the time of Hanukkah. 23 He was at the Temple, walking through the section known as Solomon's Colonnade. 24 The Jewish leaders surrounded him and asked, “How long are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus replied, “I have already told you, and you don't believe me. The proof is what I do in the name of my Father. 26 But you don't believe me because you are not part of my flock. 27 My sheep recognize my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me, 29 for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. So no one can take them from me. 30 The Father and I are one.” 31 Once again the Jewish leaders picked up stones to kill him. 32 Jesus said, “At my Father's direction I have done many things to help the people. For which one of these good deeds are you killing me?” 33 They replied, “Not for any good work, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, have made yourself God.” 34 Jesus replied, “It is written in your own law that God said to certain leaders of the people, 'I say, you are gods!' F47 35 And you know that the Scriptures cannot be altered. So if those people, who received God's message, were called 'gods,' 36 why do you call it blasphemy when the Holy One who was sent into the world by the Father says, 'I am the Son of God'? 37 Don't believe me unless I carry out my Father's work. 38 But if I do his work, believe in what I have done, even if you don't believe me. Then you will realize that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father.”Do you not believe Jesus when He says, “The father and I are one.”
God is one. There is only one God. Jesus and God are one. They are one and the same.
Matthew 1:23 – (KJV)
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with usJesus is God. That is why they called Him, Emmanuel, which means, “God with us.” God came to earth as Jesus. God was with us.
You said, “Jesus is my Lord.” I say, “Amen!”
If Jesus is your Lord, then you worship Him. Lords and Kings alike are worshipped by thier subjects. You have willingly submitted unto Christ and you worship Him. You should. He is God.
Exodus 34:14 (KJ)
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:Matthew 4:10 (KJ)
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.God wants our worship for Himself. He said, “Do not put any God's before me.” If Jesus is your Lord, then He must also be your God, or else you are breaking the ten commandments.
There is only one God, one Lord, one King, one Messiah, and one Holy Spirit. They are all one.
This is not religion. This is the truth. Jesus is the truth. Only God can be true. Jesus is the life. Only God can give life. Jesus is the way. Only God is the way.
No one can come to the father except through Jesus. Obviously. Jesus is God. If you know Jesus, you know God. If you have seen Jesus, you have seen God. That is what Jesus was trying to say.
When you realize this truth, that Jesus is God, then you realize that He has all the power and authority of the universe. He can do anything. He is God. That is why Jesus says, “You can ask anything in my name and it will be done.” It means, Jesus has the power to save you and renew you.
Dear beenblake,
I know that you love the Lord and I love the Lord. We both or should I say that everyone on this site, including myself, thinks they have the truth.So let me say what the Spirit says to me. God the Father and God His son are one in Spirit. Once we shed this sinful flesh then we will be as Jesus, God's Son, and ONE with the Father who is God. The Holy spirit is NOT a seperate person. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and Jesus.
So the trinty theroy is not too far off base.
Two divine persons in one Spirit= three (3) but not three persons. The Father and Son agree in Spirit which makes them one. I don't know how else to explain it.I know and love the Lord. He speaks to me and LOVES me more than I love myself! When the spirit gave me the above statement i was filled with the Spirit and know, without a doubt, that God is two persons in one Spirit.
Every denonmination has it's truth and that's just how the Father wants it. God is God who is in controll! We are here to LEARN how to please Him. So how do we please Him? By worshiping Him in SPIRIT and TRUTH. How do we find truth by seeking the truth and the Spirit. You and i are influnced by the flesh because we are not FULL of the Spirit, but the Father and Son are full of the Spirit and are Spirit. God is a Spirit! Oh how wonderful He is we don't know or even see all the truth. We see through a foggy glass but when He comes a second time and we are changed to Spirit, His Spirit, then we will know all things.
It's spiritualy healthy to exchange our thoughts and share what the Lord has given us. But it's sad that WE (including me for I am flesh also) slip back into the flesh after a short time in the Spirit- thus the argument. Our lord's prayer was that we would become one just as He and the Father are one!
And we will for this is His plan that we are one with the Father through the Spirit. I believe a special time is set aside so most of us will learn MORE because the sinful flesh will be gone and we will be clean even as the first man was clean before sin.So with the flesh as weak as it is let us pray before we reason together.
Quote (beenblake @ Oct. 29 2005,00:24) Dear Nick, You said, “It is the Pharisees who made the false accusation that Jesus Christ was claiming to be God.”
Let us look at what the bible says about this:
Mark 14:60-64 (NLT)
60 Then the high priest stood up before the others and asked Jesus, “Well, aren't you going to answer these charges? What do you have to say for yourself?” 61 Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, “Are you the Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?” 62 Jesus said, “I am, and you will see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming back on the clouds of heaven.” F87 63 Then the high priest tore his clothing to show his horror and said, “Why do we need other witnesses? 64 You have all heard his blasphemy. What is your verdict?” And they all condemned him to death.The Pharisees did not make a false accusation. They accused Jesus. They asked Him, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?” Jesus said, “I am.” When Jesus said this, Jesus was saying, “I am God.” He said specifically the words, “I am” in order to reference God calling Himself “I am” in scripture. They accused Him of blasphemy, of saying that He is God. Jesus did not defend Himself. Jesus did not say, “You are wrong. I am not God.” Instead, Jesus said, “I am.” He agreed with them.
The accusations were not false. They were true accusations. So, they killed Jesus. However, they killed Jesus because they didn't believe Him. They did not believe Jesus is God, and so they wanted to prove Him wrong. They thought, that if they killed Him, this would prove He was not God. However, the opposite happened. When Jesus died there was an earthquake that caused the temple to collapse.
You must understand that Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are in perfect unity. That is why we say trinity, for it means “Tri-unity.” Three are one. There is one God. And the three are one.
Rom 2.11f
” For there is no partiality with God. For all who have sinned without the law WILL ALSO PERISH without the Law, and ALL WHO HAVE SINNED UNDER THE LAW WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW;”You placed emphasis on the wrong part. If you are without the law, you WILL PERISH without the law. However, if you have the law, you WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW. This means that God shows no favoritism. Whether you are gentile or Jew, you will be judged. It also means that without the law, you will die. However, if you have the law, you will be judged by the law.
Paul also said later in that chapter that everyone has the law for it is written inside of them.
Romans 2:14,15 (NLT)
14 Even when Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, instinctively follow what the law says, they show that in their hearts they know right from wrong. 15 They demonstrate that God's law is written within them, for their own consciences either accuse them or tell them they are doing what is right.It also says we will be judged for what we have done. The law is about what we do or say. The law gives details on what we should not do. It tells us what is wrong. This law is also in our conscience. We know what is right or wrong. And so, we will be judged for what we have done.
Romans 2:5b & 6 (NLT)
For there is going to come a day of judgment when God, the just judge of all the world, 6 will judge all people according to what they have done.The bible also says,
James 2:10 (NLT) And the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as the person who has broken all of God's laws.
If you break one law, you have broken them all. The point of this is to show that we are sinners. The bible says in Romans 3:10b (NLT) No one is good – not even one. Have you ever done anything wrong in your life? If you have done even one wrong thing, then you are a sinner.
If you Jesus was to come back today, and judge you, what would you say? What would you say if Jesus said, “You are no good. Why should I let you into Heaven?”
You said, “Mediators are used in all sorts of disputes. But how fair would it be if you turned up to meet with your opponent and a mediator and you found your opponent WAS your mediator? How just would that be?”
What you are saying is that your opponent is God, and Jesus is your mediator. Why is your opponent God? Why are you fighting with Him?
And how is Jesus your mediator when He is also your judge? (John 5:22)
You said, “As Peter said you must repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
This is true, you must be born again (John 3:3). To be born again, you must be baptized in Spirit. To be baptized in Spirit is to recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit. John the baptist said:
Matthew 3:11 (NLT)
“I baptize with water those who turn from their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is far greater than I am – so much greater that I am not even worthy to be his slave. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.”The question is: Do you have the Holy Spirit? Have you been born again?
Hi bb,
So in the trial of Jesus Christ he agreed he was“The Messiah”
and
“The Son of the Blessed God”So how can this mean to you he is saying he is
God Himself?
That's crazy.
He even said they would see him
“Standing at God's right hand in the place of power”
and
“Coming back on the clouds of heaven”
How can he both be standing at God's right hand
and
be that God as well.That is crazy.
Just because one of his enemies interprets him wrongly does not mean we should join in with him in the same folly does it?
Hi bb,
Do you fear judgement? Do you expect to be judged according to Jn 5.22?You should not if you are safe in Christ.
Jn 5.24
” Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word, and believes Him who sent me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgement, but has passed out of death into life”Tell me what being born of water means.
Hi bb,
If Jesus was not the Son of God as he said he was then you call him a liar. You call the Father a liar too by saying He is not the Father of Jesus Christ, and yet He spoke proclaiming“This is My beloved Son in whom I am well pleased”
Of course “of God” means he issued from God but he was still a Son, and every family relationship on earth is based on that relationship.[Eph 3.15]
Hi bb,
Ps 2
” Thou are My son. Today I have begotten thee”” I am in the Father, and the Father is in me”
Two beings.Only in this context can you grasp
” My Father and I are one”Is the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God?
If so then why do you say the Spirit is a separate person from God?Hi beenblake,
Quote (beenblake @ Oct. 29 2005,19:24) You must understand that Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are in perfect unity. That is why we say trinity, for it means “Tri-unity.” Three are one. There is one God. And the three are one.
You say that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one in unity.
You also say and believe that God is made up of 3 persons.
So you said the following:God = 3
Jesus = 1
Holy Spirit = 1
=============
3+1+1=5Three in unity?
You correctly pointed out God and Jesus, but then that whole Trinity thing stuffed your teaching to the point where you are now teaching a Quinity with 2 Jesus's and 2 Holy Spirits.
Just to show that you are not alone in this madness, here is a bit of history for you:
Before the Trinity doctrine matured, the Nicene Creed use to teach a Binity (the Father and Son). Decades later the Holy Spirit was added to complete the Trinity doctrine as we know it now.Perhaps this doctrine is all part of evilution and will eventually end up a Decinity. Why a Decinity, well that is how many fingers we have and these doctrines seem to be limited to the things of men and not the Spirit of God. We can always add in Mary and some saints if we get deperate.
Hi Beenblake,
My wife and I are one-in many ways and that is what was God's plan. But she has gone off to bed and I am still here. We are one but still two.That is how it is with the Father and the son though their unity as two beings is even closer. Spiritually the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son. That is what the Son of God told us and I believe him. Don't you?Hi bb,
Are you born of God you ask. Here is the test and I pass-how about you?
” 1 Jn 4.13
” by this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. We have seen and testify that God has sent the Son to be the Saviour of the World”1Jn 5.1f
” Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him”1Jn 5.11
” The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself;the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given us concerning His Son”Quote (liljon @ Oct. 28 2005,21:02) the trinity is in the bible. but people refuse to believe it.
Hi liljon,
If, however, the trinity is not in the bible the wise should surely refuse to believe it. Do you agree?Quote (t8 @ Sep. 03 2002,00:10) My opinion is that we shouldn't be looking for a denomination at all. I can appreciate that we want to fellowship with others that don't teach the trinity and that is fair enough, but I believe that God is exposing the doctrine of the trinity for a reason, so that we can come out of Babylon, and we should be careful ourselves not to perpetuate this system of control. I am currently doing a writing on Babylon, but in the meantime I want to point out that the meaning of Church and Denomination are different. First of all there is only one Church (Body) and it is called the Body of Christ. The Church is suppose to be in unity and is universal (catholic). On the other hand the word Denomination is similar to the word trinity in the respect that it is not mentioned in the scriptures and is based on mans works. There are over 33,000 different denominations and most glory in their own name, compete with other denominations and they try to build their Kingdoms up to Heaven in their own strength. This is of course similar to what happened with Babel and like Babel the result is division of language, lest men unite in this work of self glorification.
Denominations are the languages of Christianity, but Jesus prayed that we would be one with him and his Father, just before he died for our sins.
I believe that we shouldn't seek to add another denomination or even give this system any kind of credit. The reason why this system of religious division exists is due to the Mother of Denominations the Roman Catholic Church (catholic means universal and the universal church is different to the Roman universal church). The Church's foundation is Christ and the Apostles. The Roman Catholic Church's foundation is the Pope and man-made creeds. Each creed is based on the trinity doctrine in some way. Even the daughters (denominations) are based on the trinity doctrine including the Jehovahs Witnesses.
We should never base a fellowship on a doctrine whether it is for or against. All fellowships should be based on Jesus the Son of God and we should seek God the Father through his Son. It's not about doctrine. The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
Exposing the trinity doctrine is actually striking a lethal blow into the foundation of this harlot religious system that is drunk on the blood of the saints. We shouldn't seek to destroy with one hand and then build it again with the other. At the same time however we must realise that God's children are trapped inside this system and we should be careful not to destroy our brothers and sisters in whom Christ died for. We should remain in unity with all our brothers and sisters unless of course they have departed the true faith.
My advice is to first seek from God, a true vision on what the Church really is, then seek to be a part of that Church and obey the Head of the Church. We should fellowship for sure, but that fellowship is with people who believe that Jesus is the Christ and we can fellowship with our brothers and sisters anywhere and anytime. For who can know which way the wind goes and where it comes, so it should be with the Sons of God. Certainly the wind doesn't blow the same way every Sunday.
I did a writing on the meaning of Church. It is located at https://heavennet.net/answers/answer05.htm perhaps this could be a good direction to take this post.
I am happy to include this subject in the trinity post as I think that the trinity doctrine is actually just an intergral part of something bigger. I pray that God will use each one of us to shine his light into the darkness so that the darkness will be overcome.
Let me know what you think??
Hi t8,What do i think of your description of the true church? WOW!
I enjoyed reading it.I and many people I've talk to KNOW that the “protestant” denominations are the harlot's daughters. But still they belong to a daughter church. The Baptist for one, know these things as do many others. But still they believe the trinty doctrine of the mother harlot. Why?
I just thought of something. HARLOT-MARY; I have the up most respect for Mary, but she is not a goddes and I'm sure she wouldn't want to be. But the Catholic's praise her I believe above Jesus.
Do you believe that the Baptist and the other denominations because they believe in the trinty doctrine of the Catholic church are Catholic and don't know it?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 25 2005,02:45) Quote (david @ Oct. 24 2005,23:01) I'm not even sure on what trinity thread it was stated, but someone made the comment that the Hebrew word translated “God” is often in the plural form (’Elo·him´). SUCH ONES SEEM TO IGNORE that this word is used in the same way for individual pagan divinities, such as DAGON (1 Samuel 5:7) and MARDUK (Daniel 1:2), WHO WERE NOT TRIUNE GODS!
Commenting on this, Oxford scholar R. B. Girdlestone writes in his Synonyms of the Old Testament: “Many critics, however, of unimpeachable [Trinitarian] orthodoxy, think it wiser to rest where such divines as Cajetan [a theologian] in the Church of Rome and Calvin among Protestants were content to stand, and to take the plural form as a plural of majesty.”
Such Trinitarian theologians doubtless realized that if they took ‘Elo·him´ as a numerical plural (gods), they would become polytheists!
Hi,
This is always a popular argument by those who try to justify trinity doctrine; “elohim ” means more than one. But, of course, if the meaning was as they suggested there would not be one God in three persons but three gods.
Hi everyone,Why couldn't God have been talking to Jesus?
Let “us” make man in our image. After all God uses Jesus to create or am I missing something?
I propose a test. Give the Bible to someone who's never heard of the trinity or God before and have him read it. If he comes to believe in the trinity by himself just by reading the Bible (even though it took philosophical minded religionist a couple hundred years to create it) I'll eat this computer.
Much like Christmas, the easter bunny, the immortal soul, etc, the trinity is not taught in scripture.Hi liljon,
The best way to study the bible is to start by reading it and seeing which terms are used. Then to maintain that integrity we should use the words that scripture uses. Trinity is not a biblical word.Hi David,
I agree that christmas etc. are pagan holidays. I don't believe the trinty doctrine. And i don't believe man has an immortal soul .
Example: Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The word body means to protect.
Strongs root word # 4982:
to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destructionSo the body protects the soul. Weather that body be human or animal. That's right. Right?
SOUL: Root word #5594 to breathe, blow, cool by blowing ,to be made or grow cool or cold, metaph. of waning love
Soul means to breath so now the body protects breath. That's right. Right?
There is one more definition we need to look at.Mt 2:20
Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.Life, Strongs root word # 5594: to breathe, blow, cool by blowing to be made or grow cool or cold metaph. of waning love
Soul and life have the same root word both are Strongs root word #5594.
Example: Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the ARMOUR, but are not able to kill the LIFE: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both LIFE and ARMOUR in hell.
Spirit: Strong's Root word #4154:to breathe, to blow
of the wind. Same as soul/life Strongs #5594.Mat 12:43 But the unclean spirit, when he is gone out of the man, passeth through waterless places, seeking rest, and findeth it not.
The word spirit in this scripture means the same. But that couldn't be right, “BUT THE UNCLEAN BREATH, WHEN HE IS GONE…
Does that make any sence. If man has nothing, no spirit then where does his personality go. The word says we will be resurrected. How will God resurrect David if david no longer exist. If there is nothing but an empty pad then God will not turn the page, why should he there is nothing there.
Surely David is more than air, that's right, Right.
Dear Nick,
Quote Hi bb,
So in the trial of Jesus Christ he agreed he was“The Messiah”
and
“The Son of the Blessed God”So how can this mean to you he is saying he is
God Himself?
That's crazy.
He even said they would see him
“Standing at God's right hand in the place of power”
and
“Coming back on the clouds of heaven”
It is not as crazy as you think. It is the truth. How can God be omniscient? How can He be every where at once? He is God. He can do all things and more.
This is not something I can force upon you, and I do not wish to force it on you. This is something you must believe. It is a matter of faith.
Jesus came to earth as a man. And yet, Jesus was also God. While Jesus was on earth, He had all the authority and power of God because He was God. And yet He was a man.
This is important. I know you believe Jesus was a man. You have the first half of the gospel. However, you will not be saved unless you accept Him as Lord. You must accept Him as being greater than you, as being God.
Why? How can Jesus save you unless you call out to Him? How can Jesus forgive you for your sins unless you ask Him to forgive you? How can you be born again, unless you believe in Jesus?
You cannot be saved unless you pray to Jesus. And once you do, the Lord will reveal to you the truth.
I tell you these things because I used to be just like you. I fought against so many people about the trinity. I refused to believe and accept it. I was raised one of Jehovah's Witnesses and for so many years they lied to me. They told me that Jehovah is God, when in fact the word “Jehovah” is an adjective and not a noun. The word “Jehovah” is used in connection with the word “God” which means that it describes God. Jehovah is not the name of God. We say, “Jehovah God” because we are saying, “Almighty God.” If it were the name of God then it would stand alone. There was so many lies that they told me, but Jesus told me the truth. Not any person or religion. It was Jesus who told me the truth.
Jesus came down from Heaven and saved me. Yes, indeed, I am born again. I know that I am, not because of what the bible says. I know Jesus personally. I have met Him. His Spirit lives inside me. I shared with you my testimony.
You do not have to believe me. I don't expect you to, and honestly, I don't want you to. This isn't about me. I am just a lowly human. I cannot help you or save you or forgive your sins or transform you.
To be born again is to be transformed by the power of Christ. He makes us into a new person. I used to be a terrible sinner. When Jesus came down and saved me, He removed my sins. He washed my sins away.
I tell you these things my friend, because I want you to experience the same thing. I want you to know God, to know Jesus personally. I want you to know Jesus right now, while you are alive and on earth. Why wait until the tribulation? He will come to you now. And He will remove your sins, and give you new life. He will do all the things He has promised in the bible. You will know them now.
Jesus has been trying to speak to you. He sent me here to speak to you. He loves you and is calling to you. He has sent countless people to speak to you about the trinity. He has sent countless messengers in order that you would listen.
Revelation 3:20 – (NLT)
“Look! Here I stand at the door and knock. If you hear me calling and open the door, I will come in, and we will share a meal as friends.”Right now, you are an enemy of God. You said so yourself. You need Jesus to mediate. You need the bible to believe. You have quoted me tons of bible verses and scripture. That's great. I love the bible. Except, the bible won't save you. You need to experience Jesus. You need to meet Him in real life and real time. Open the door to Jesus, and you can be His friend.
I am telling you that I have experienced this. I know Jesus personally. I know Him better than I know myself.
Do you not believe Jesus died for your sin? Do you not believe that Jesus is your Lord? Do you not believe He is alive right now? Do you want Jesus?
Jesus cannot come to you unless you humbly bow down to Him. Pray to Jesus and ask Him to take your sins. Accept Him into your heart. Ask Him to be your Lord and Savior. Ask Him to tell you the truth. Ask Him to help you and guide you. Ask Him anything you want. Jesus will answer your prayers.
You have not been praying to Jesus. You have been praying to the Father. I am trying to tell you that you need to pray to Jesus. Confess your sins to Jesus.
If all you say is true, if Jesus has all the authority and power, if Jesus can forgive your sins, and if Jesus is the Messiah, then call out to Him. He is the one you need.
Jesus has been saying to you, “Come.” What is your reply? Will you come, or will you let the bible and religion and other people tell you what or who God is? What do you say? Will you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior?
Hi bb,
I am not an enemy of God but reborn into His family into his Son. Men need a mediator and I have been through the mediator, been through the gate into the presence of Father God. have you obeyed the Son. What you preach is not his message but that you have heard from false teachers.Jesus has all authority under God, not because he is God, but because it has been given it by God. that is what scripture says.
Mt 28 18
” All authority HAS BEEN GIVEN to me in heaven and on earth”
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