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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2005,20:33) Hi k,
The Spirit is not divided. The same Spirit that comes from God and filled Jesus and can fill us is one. So when it speaks of “our spirit”, it means what it says-our spirit- and does not mean the Holy Spirit which is never ours but belongs to God.
Everything belongs to God, but He GAVE us His Spirit.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2005,20:33) Hi k,
The Spirit is not divided. The same Spirit that comes from God and filled Jesus and can fill us is one. So when it speaks of “our spirit”, it means what it says-our spirit- and does not mean the Holy Spirit which is never ours but belongs to God.
Hey Nick,
The spirit you were born with is evil the Spirit we recieve is good.1Co 15:45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven.
You need to just sit on it awhile and let the Holy Spirit guide you.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to comeQuote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2005,20:35) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 22 2005,20:27) Quote (david @ Oct. 22 2005,20:25) This topic has slowly shifted away from the trinity topic, hasn't it?
That's alright Ive been there.
I quite agree david. It was important to follow through at the time but should shift to a Holy Spirit and a salvation forum.
Trinity is a dead issue that belongs to intellectuals and theologians.
ooh can I play?Someone please explain John3:13 seems to say that the only ones going to heaven are the ones who came out of heaven. Which means that the apostles (for sure) had to of come down from heaven???
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2005,20:38) Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 22 2005,20:23) Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God
Carnally minded, before we recieved Jesus. The carnal mind MUST decrease and Jesus must INCREASE, see:;):
Hi k,
We do not receive Jesus to be saved. Neither do we receive the mind of Christ until we are saved. Perhaps these issues too should be debated in a salvation forum.
OK, I would love to join in but not right away. The spirit is strong but the flesh is week. I need a break
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 22 2005,21:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2005,20:33) Hi k,
The Spirit is not divided. The same Spirit that comes from God and filled Jesus and can fill us is one. So when it speaks of “our spirit”, it means what it says-our spirit- and does not mean the Holy Spirit which is never ours but belongs to God.
Hey Nick,
The spirit you were born with is evil the Spirit we recieve is good.1Co 15:45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that is not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; then that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven.
You need to just sit on it awhile and let the Holy Spirit guide you.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come
Hi k,
Acts 17.25
” … He Himself gives to all people life and breath..”
Eccles 12.7
“..and the spirit will return to God who gave it..”So the spirit in man which was given by God as the breath of God, and goes back to God is evil? How odd …that God creates evil in your view and accepts that evil back.
Our spirit gives us life[Jas 2..26]
Scripture says everything God created is good. I agree evil can live in man, spirits can live in our weak vessels, as Jesus had to spend a lot of time turfing them out. The body is condemned to death because of sin and we need to live as if we are dead to it's demands. The vessel is still good as it is from the creation of the one who is good but it needs to be washed and filled with the Spirit of Christ.
Since this is the trinity forum let ma say it is true also of Christ. His vessel[cf 1 Tim 2.20], the Word of God, was clothed with flesh such that he became truly human. Jesus Christ, and not God, came in the flesh. He lived among us just as we are learning obedience to his human and divine parents and was filled with the Spirit of God and began his ministry when he was baptised by John.
Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 22 2005,21:40) Someone please explain John3:13 seems to say that the only ones going to heaven are the ones who came out of heaven. Which means that the apostles (for sure) had to of come down from heaven???
Hi,
We will find an appropriate forum.Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 22 2005,20:13) If one is increaseing then the other has to decrease until the one increaseing over comes the one that's decreaseing.:)
Hi k,
This is what the last OT prophet said as his ministry came towards it's end. Jesus's disciples were baptising at this time. It is interesting to note that their baptising also must have been one of repentance because baptism in the name of Jesus only started after the death and resurrection of Christ as Romans 6 tells us we are baptised into the death of Christ so that could not begin until his death.
Jesus said the least in the kingdom would be greater than John because all in the kingdom are baptised into the Son of God and so are greater than all under the OT law.
Soi if we are baptised into Christ, who is the Son of God, how can we worship any so called trinity of which he is said to be a part? Naah. It is a dumb idea.Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 22 2005,20:10) Yes! The spirit agrees with our spirit that we are the children of God. But we have to decrease and let Jesus increase. Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
Hi k,
Acts 17.28
” for in him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said 'For we also are his children'”
Sadly though it also says in Lk 3.38 that Adam was a son of God, and even though we may believe in God, and perhaps 'receive him as saviour' by a 'decision' that scripture says must also repent [Lk 13.1-5]and be born again of water and the Holy Spirit to be saved.Salvation is in the Son of God. We, like the Prodigal son of Lk 15 must admit our failures and sin and walk back to God who will clothe us in the garment of His Son's righteousness and put the ring of the power and authority on our finger.
Then, in the family of God, we can enjoy eternity with the Father and the Son.
No trinity there.
Hi,
2Cor 3.17f
“Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty. But we all with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit”In the NT the Lord always refers to Jesus Christ unless it is a quote from the OT where YHWH has been substituted with “Lord”. So the Spirit is the Spirit of Christ which is from the Spirit of God. Christ is the image of God and we are being made like that image by Christ being born into us. As we grow and mature and submit to the Spirit and allow God to cleanse us from all unrighteousness and we walk in the Spirit so the graces of 2Peter 1.4-7 can be built into us such that we can “become partakers of the divine nature”
So if the Lord is the Spirit, as scripture plainly teaches here, who can say the Spirit is another person of any trinity?Hi,
1Tim 5.21
” I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Jesus Christ and of His chosen angels to maintain these priciples without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality”So Jesus Christ is not God. Her is not part of God in any trinity any more than the angels are. He is spoken of here as separate from God in the same way angels are separate from God. He is higher than the angels but under God.
I'm not even sure on what trinity thread it was stated, but someone made the comment that the Hebrew word translated “God” is often in the plural form (’Elo·him´).
SUCH ONES SEEM TO IGNORE that this word is used in the same way for individual pagan divinities, such as DAGON (1 Samuel 5:7) and MARDUK (Daniel 1:2), WHO WERE NOT TRIUNE GODS!
Commenting on this, Oxford scholar R. B. Girdlestone writes in his Synonyms of the Old Testament: “Many critics, however, of unimpeachable [Trinitarian] orthodoxy, think it wiser to rest where such divines as Cajetan [a theologian] in the Church of Rome and Calvin among Protestants were content to stand, and to take the plural form as a plural of majesty.”
Such Trinitarian theologians doubtless realized that if they took ‘Elo·him´ as a numerical plural (gods), they would become polytheists!
Quote (david @ Oct. 24 2005,23:01) I'm not even sure on what trinity thread it was stated, but someone made the comment that the Hebrew word translated “God” is often in the plural form (’Elo·him´). SUCH ONES SEEM TO IGNORE that this word is used in the same way for individual pagan divinities, such as DAGON (1 Samuel 5:7) and MARDUK (Daniel 1:2), WHO WERE NOT TRIUNE GODS!
Commenting on this, Oxford scholar R. B. Girdlestone writes in his Synonyms of the Old Testament: “Many critics, however, of unimpeachable [Trinitarian] orthodoxy, think it wiser to rest where such divines as Cajetan [a theologian] in the Church of Rome and Calvin among Protestants were content to stand, and to take the plural form as a plural of majesty.”
Such Trinitarian theologians doubtless realized that if they took ‘Elo·him´ as a numerical plural (gods), they would become polytheists!
Hi,
This is always a popular argument by those who try to justify trinity doctrine; “elohim ” means more than one. But, of course, if the meaning was as they suggested there would not be one God in three persons but three gods.This website has posted a definitive argument against the trinity. I could tear this argument down and prove it wrong on every account using the bible and theological arguments, however, this would not do good for anyone. For what good is a logical debate? It does not substantiate faith. A faith based upon an argument, on the basis of the bible, is a weak faith.
If I told you that there was a God, and you believed me, then you whole basis for that belief would be on me. You believe in God because of me. Likewise, if you believe in God because of the bible, then the whole basis of your believe is on the bible. That is a weak faith. However, if God were to come down from Heaven and meet with you in person, then your faith would be solid. You would know God personally, for you would have met Him in person. Your faith would not be based on the bible, rather, it would be based on a real experience with God.
Therefore, the bible is incomplete. It is not a complete revelation. A complete revalation would prove the existance of God. There is no proof of God. We must believe in God by faith. If you look around, every religion is based upon faith. Faith is key. Faith is important. Even the bible backs this. Even Jesus supported this. We must believe.
Believe in what? That is the question. We all have to choose what we believe in. Some people believe there is no God. Other's believe there is a God. Some believe in Gods they have been taught about. Some base thier entire belief in God on the bible. Other's on History.
The bible makes it clear that there is one God. This is essential. In fact, it is the most essential part of God. There is one. God is one. Why?
Imagine there is one God. He rules over everything. Everything in the universe does what He says. He has all authority over everything. Well, if that's the case, then God is good. All things do what that one God says. However, now imagine there are two Gods. All is fine and dandy, until they clash. Oops. Now there is war. If there is more than one God, then there is constant war. This means, there is no such thing as good.
Likewise, love is one. Love unites, comes together, and joins. People are united in love. Family, friends, and lovers all come together. The bible says God is love. If there is more than one God, then there can't be any love.
There is one God. He is good. He is love. Add this all together, and what do you have? God is Holy. This is complete.
Great, so there is one God. Even the angels and the Devil know this. Even the Devil believes there is one God. And yet, He is the prince of evil. And so, believing in God is not enough. We must believe in something more. This is where Christianity starts to enter the picture. Think of John 3:16. You know the scripture well. We must believe in Jesus. Ah yes, we must believe in Jesus.
We must believe what about Jesus? We must believe “in Him.” What does that mean? Well, if you believe in a person, then you believe in what they say and do. And what did Jesus say and do?
Jesus died for us. He gave His life for us. What does that mean? How did He die for us. Well, we are all sinners. We have all done bad things. No person is good. Not one. And God, who is Holy, needs to have Holy people in order to live eternally. God gives live to good people, not bad people. This presents a big problem. If all people are bad, then who can be saved?
All who believe in Jesus. If we believe in Jesus, then we accept that He died for us. What? It means that Jesus took your punishment for you. Because we are bad, we are supposed to be punished. The punishment for being bad is death. We are all supposed to die. However, Jesus stood in for your punishment. He saved your life by dying for you. He did this for you. Jesus died for you.
How can this be, people still die? That is true. We all still die. We must die to this world and this rotten body. However, Jesus will resurrect you. He will raise you from the dead and give you new life. You will be born again. He will give you a new Spirit and a new heart. He will make you into a new person. When this happens, Jesus will come down from Heaven to meet you in person. He will cleanse you and make you new. He will save you. You will know you are saved, not because the bible tells you, but because you will meet with Jesus. He will make a promise to renew you, and He will guarentee His promise with the Holy Spirit. He will fill you with hope and love. Here, on earth, while you are still alive, these things will happen. You will meet Jesus in Spirit. You will feel the power of His presence over you. He will solidify your faith. He will make your faith real. You will not have to depend on the bible. Rather, you will have a real faith. A faith based on an experience with Jesus.
Do you want this? Do you want this to happen?
Then you must repent of your sins and call out to Jesus for salvation. Pray to Jesus and ask Him to help you. Bow down before Him, and ask Him to save you.
When you do this, you will know Jesus is God. You will know the truth. This is the secret of the bible, the missing piece that is not revealed. Jesus is Lord. Jesus is God. He is supreme. This secret was kept from people so that they may believe it by faith.
If the bible told you that Jesus is God, then you could not believe in Him. You would be forced to believe on the basis of the bible. God does not want this. He wants you to make the choice willingly. He wants you to believe in Jesus willingly.
You see, any person can believe in God. People will believe in God just to get what they want. But not everyone can believe in Jesus. God wants people to believe in Him with love. Love is a choice we make. We willingly choose to love people. It cannot be forced. If Jesus would have said, “You must believe I am God.” Then it would have been forced.
No, you are missing the whole point. All of the bible is about love. Do you want to love God? Love is personal. It is intimate. When two people fall in love, they come together. Do you feel like something is missing? Do you feel like God is there but distance? Do your prayers go unanswered? Does it feel like no one is there?
God is love. He wants to love you and wants you to love Him. But He cannot force you. The choice is yours. You must make it on your own.
Jesus is God. This is important. He is not just any God, He can be your God. Imagine, this man whom you read about and know so much about. Imagine, He can be your God. Jesus healed people. He guided them and directed them. He submitted unto them. He love them. Jesus died for you. God died for you. He lowered Himself below the angels to our level, just so that we can be with Him. He did all this for you because He loves you.
The question is: Do you want Jesus to be YOUR God? Do you want this person you read about and know so much about to be your God?
Give your life to Jesus. Call out to Him in prayer and beg Him to save you. Then you will truly know God as a person.
Hi beenblake and welcome,
We do not devise clever speculations about salvation. We do not take lightly the death of the Son of God and brush past his words to develop a salvation for all package based on the love of God. Such theories are popular among men but does not the way of men seem right in their own eyes?
Our doctrines have to stand strong when we meet the one who was sent by God and died for us. Your hopes rest on speculation and not revelation taken in faith in my view.Quote (beenblake @ Oct. 26 2005,20:36) This website has posted a definitive argument against the trinity. I could tear this argument down and prove it wrong on every account using the bible and theological arguments, however, this would not do good for anyone. For what good is a logical debate? It does not substantiate faith. A faith based upon an argument, on the basis of the bible, is a weak faith. If I told you that there was a God, and you believed me, then you whole basis for that belief would be on me. You believe in God because of me. Likewise, if you believe in God because of the bible, then the whole basis of your believe is on the bible. That is a weak faith. However, if God were to come down from Heaven and meet with you in person, then your faith would be solid. You would know God personally, for you would have met Him in person. Your faith would not be based on the bible, rather, it would be based on a real experience with God.
Therefore, the bible is incomplete. It is not a complete revelation. A complete revalation would prove the existance of God. There is no proof of God. We must believe in God by faith. If you look around, every religion is based upon faith. Faith is key. Faith is important. Even the bible backs this. Even Jesus supported this. We must believe.
Believe in what? That is the question. We all have to choose what we believe in. Some people believe there is no God. Other's believe there is a God. Some believe in Gods they have been taught about. Some base thier entire belief in God on the bible. Other's on History.
The bible makes it clear that there is one God. This is essential. In fact, it is the most essential part of God. There is one. God is one. Why?
Imagine there is one God. He rules over everything. Everything in the universe does what He says. He has all authority over everything. Well, if that's the case, then God is good. All things do what that one God says. However, now imagine there are two Gods. All is fine and dandy, until they clash. Oops. Now there is war. If there is more than one God, then there is constant war. This means, there is no such thing as good.
Likewise, love is one. Love unites, comes together, and joins. People are united in love. Family, friends, and lovers all come together. The bible says God is love. If there is more than one God, then there can't be any love.
There is one God. He is good. He is love. Add this all together, and what do you have? God is Holy. This is complete.
Great, so there is one God. Even the angels and the Devil know this. Even the Devil believes there is one God. And yet, He is the prince of evil. And so, believing in God is not enough. We must believe in something more. This is where Christianity starts to enter the picture. Think of John 3:16. You know the scripture well. We must believe in Jesus. Ah yes, we must believe in Jesus.
We must believe what about Jesus? We must believe “in Him.” What does that mean? Well, if you believe in a person, then you believe in what they say and do. And what did Jesus say and do?
Jesus died for us. He gave His life for us. What does that mean? How did He die for us. Well, we are all sinners. We have all done bad things. No person is good. Not one. And God, who is Holy, needs to have Holy people in order to live eternally. God gives live to good people, not bad people. This presents a big problem. If all people are bad, then who can be saved?
All who believe in Jesus. If we believe in Jesus, then we accept that He died for us. What? It means that Jesus took your punishment for you. Because we are bad, we are supposed to be punished. The punishment for being bad is death. We are all supposed to die. However, Jesus stood in for your punishment. He saved your life by dying for you. He did this for you. Jesus died for you.
How can this be, people still die? That is true. We all still die. We must die to this world and this rotten body. However, Jesus will resurrect you. He will raise you from the dead and give you new life. You will be born again. He will give you a new Spirit and a new heart. He will make you into a new person. When this happens, Jesus will come down from Heaven to meet you in person. He will cleanse you and make you new. He will save you. You will know you are saved, not because the bible tells you, but because you will meet with Jesus. He will make a promise to renew you, and He will guarentee His promise with the Holy Spirit. He will fill you with hope and love. Here, on earth, while you are still alive, these things will happen. You will meet Jesus in Spirit. You will feel the power of His presence over you. He will solidify your faith. He will make your faith real. You will not have to depend on the bible. Rather, you will have a real faith. A faith based on an experience with Jesus.
Do you want this? Do you want this to happen?
Then you must repent of your sins and call out to Jesus for salvation. Pray to Jesus and ask Him to help you. Bow down before Him, and ask Him to save you.
When you do this, you will know Jesus is God. You will know the truth. This is the secret of the bible, the missing piece that is not revealed. Jesus is Lord. Jesus is God. He is supreme. This secret was kept from people so that they may believe it by faith.
If the bible told you that Jesus is God, then you could not believe in Him. You would be forced to believe on the basis of the bible. God does not want this. He wants you to make the choice willingly. He wants you to believe in Jesus willingly.
You see, any person can believe in God. People will believe in God just to get what they want. But not everyone can believe in Jesus. God wants people to believe in Him with love. Love is a choice we make. We willingly choose to love people. It cannot be forced. If Jesus would have said, “You must believe I am God.” Then it would have been forced.
No, you are missing the whole point. All of the bible is about love. Do you want to love God? Love is personal. It is intimate. When two people fall in love, they come together. Do you feel like something is missing? Do you feel like God is there but distance? Do your prayers go unanswered? Does it feel like no one is there?
God is love. He wants to love you and wants you to love Him. But He cannot force you. The choice is yours. You must make it on your own.
Jesus is God. This is important. He is not just any God, He can be your God. Imagine, this man whom you read about and know so much about. Imagine, He can be your God. Jesus healed people. He guided them and directed them. He submitted unto them. He love them. Jesus died for you. God died for you. He lowered Himself below the angels to our level, just so that we can be with Him. He did all this for you because He loves you.
The question is: Do you want Jesus to be YOUR God? Do you want this person you read about and know so much about to be your God?
Give your life to Jesus. Call out to Him in prayer and beg Him to save you. Then you will truly know God as a person.
Hello beenblake,
I know Jesus the Son of God. Jesus is my Lord, certainly way above you and I, so yes in a certain way He is my God and the Father is the Son's God.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
The Lord (Jesus) talks to me, tells me He loves me, and I love Him. We fellowship, some people call that prayer.Jesus doesn't want sacrifice He wants compassion. He doesn&
#39;t want a lot of words and lip service, He wants to get personal with His brethren that's what I am, a fellow child of God and His younger brother.
You really want to know God take off all that religon.
Do you think that Jesus wants us to genuflect in front of a cross when He died so we could go boldly to the thrown!Like it or not I'm part of the God family, His brother and God's son.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.Hi bb,
God is love. God wants all men to come to salvation. That salvation and that love is available through the Son of God. No one can come to the Father except through him. We must be born again into the Son. He is the mediator between God and man. So he cannot be that God if he mediates with God can he?Have you recieved salvation? Nick!
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