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Quote (Guest @ July 02 2005,11:43) Nick, Every knee will bow and confess Jesus Christ is YHWH to the glory of God the Father – that is the context of Phil 2:6-8 and the OT scriptures quoted.
Here's more:
http://reluctant-messenger.com/God-in-flesh.htm
http://www.hebraicrootsversion.com/
http://www.bible-researcher.com/syriac-isbe.html1 Corinthians 12
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. KJV1 Corinthians 12
3 Because of this, I make known to you that there is no one by the spirit of Eloah and says that Yeshua is accursed. And neither is a man able to say that YHWH is Yeshua except by Ruach HaKodesh. HRV—————————-
Romans 14 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. KJVFrom the Aramaic a much broader understanding of Lord is revealed.
Romans 14
8 Because if we live, we live to our Adon and if we die, we die to our Adon. And whether we live therefore or whether we die, we belong to our Adon.
9 Because of this also the Messiah died and is alive and is raised that he might be YHWH to the dead and to the living. 1O Now why do you judge your brother? Or why also do you treat your brother with contempt? For all of us will stand before the bema of the Messiah.
11 As it is written, I live, says YHWH. Every knee will bow to me and every tongue will confess me.
12 Therefore every man from us will give an account for his nefesh to Eloah.
13 Therefore let us not judge one another, but rather determine this: that you will not place a stumbling stone before your brother.
14 For I know and am persuaded by YHWH Yeshua that there is not a thing that is defiled from itself. But to him who thinks concerning a thing that it is unclean, to him alone it is unclean. HRV
Hi FYI,
Jesus is Lord.
Yahweh is Yahweh.Hey Nick,
I am saved, baptised, filled with the Spirit and on fire for the Lord… a daily walk with HIM — unchurched – walk in the gifts as He uses me for HIs purpose.Growing in truth daily but having a bit more challange with this one – its like I need “application”
So would you say all the songs that people sing about “we worship you Jesus, we love you Jesus” is false?
Hi cf,
If you are as a branch in the vine then whom do you worship?Jn4 tells us about true worship and true worshippers. They worship the Father.
Humm,
I posted and its nowhere to be found.Thanks Nick,
So would you say that singing songs about “we worship you Jesus” we love you Jesus” is false?
But what about us needing him as a mediator to come to the Father?
I need applicationI am saved – I am baptised, filled with the spirit, moving in the Gifts as He chooses to use me and I am a sold out lover of My Father– and may I say “not part of a church”
Quote (Guest @ July 02 2005,20:35) Hey Nick,
I am saved, baptised, filled with the Spirit and on fire for the Lord… a daily walk with HIM — unchurched – walk in the gifts as He uses me for HIs purpose.Growing in truth daily but having a bit more challange with this one – its like I need “application”
So would you say all the songs that people sing about “we worship you Jesus, we love you Jesus” is false?
Hi cf,I am posting under the thread, “WORSHIP,” see you there.
There is only ONE name above all names – that is YHWH
Paul says that God gave that name to Jesus Christ, and that every knee will bow to Jesus Christ and confess His name is YHWH.
Philippians 2
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (Gr.=kurios=YHWH), to the glory of God the Father. RSVPhilippians 2
5 And think in your nefeshot that which also Yeshua the Messiah [thought],
6 Who as he was in the likeness of Eloah did not consider it presumptuous to be an equal of Eloah?
7 But he emptied his nefesh, and took on the likeness of a servant, and was in the likeness of the sons of men and was found in fashion like a son of man.
8 And he humbled his nefesh and became obedient unto death, even the death of the gallows.
9 Because of this, Eloah also highly exalted him, and gave him a name which is greater than all names,
1O That at the name of Yeshua every knee will bow that is in heaven and on earth and that is under the earth,
11 And every tongue will confess that Yeshua the Messiah is YHWH, to the glory of Eloah his Father. HRV————————
1 Corithians 15
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord (Gr.=kurios=YHWH) from heaven. KJV1 Corithians 15
45 So it is also written, Adam, the first man, became a living nefesh; and the last Adam, a quickening spirit.
46 But the spiritual was not first but the natural and then the spiritual.
47 The first son of man* was dust that was from the earth. The second man was YHWH from heaven.————————–
All who deny are antichrist!
You MUST confess Jesus Christ is YHWH
Quote (Guest @ July 03 2005,02:13) There is only ONE name above all names – that is YHWH Paul says that God gave that name to Jesus Christ, and that every knee will bow to Jesus Christ and confess His name is YHWH.
FYI, perhaps you could choose any book in the bible that we could study online, which would help us to get into the heart of the matter. It should be worthwhile. I recommend a shorter book but it need not be. We would study it from Chapter 1 verse 1 and follow the thought of the writer. We would then use scripture to interpret scripture, and apply any scripture from elsewhere in the scriptures, to substantiate what we are reading as to leave scripture unbroken and conveying the gospel of God.It'd be perhaps easier to follow the argument you present.
If this is agreeable to you, then please start a thread by the title of the book of your choice and I'll meet you there as often as I can.
I think that you are mixing YHWH with the title lord, which is widely applied.
Anyway, have a good rest of the weekend.
Hi FYI,
Sorry but you use typical trintarian presumption.Jesus was give the name that is above every other name. What could that be? I Know. It must be YHWH!!
Well if you say that you have to say that he was not always called YHWH don't you? Because you rightly say he was given a new name. So what was his name before he was given the name of his Father???
Surely you have always said he has always been of the same substance as the Father so you cannot be suggesting he later acquired this new name are you?
You seem to take for granted that the “shared” name means equality with the Father so you are now saying he did not always had this equality but suddenly gained it as with a promotion?
When you say Jesus is the Son of God you really only mean this in some sort of cosmetic way. Because you say they share the same substance then he is a part of your original trinity God so true sonship is a myth. Thus you deny the Master just as Jesus warned.
You also must say that God as YHWH came in the flesh so that too, according to 1 Jn identifies your doctrine as antichrist. No we do not join in your folly. You deny scripture.
Hi,
2Cor 5.19
” ..God was IN Christ reconciling the world to Himself”
He was not Christ.
He was not AS Christ.He was IN CHRIST
Quote (Guest @ July 02 2005,20:42) Humm,
I posted and its nowhere to be found.Thanks Nick,
So would you say that singing songs about “we worship you Jesus” we love you Jesus” is false?
But what about us needing him as a mediator to come to the Father?
I need applicationI am saved – I am baptised, filled with the spirit, moving in the Gifts as He chooses to use me and I am a sold out lover of My Father– and may I say “not part of a church”
Hi cf,
Jesus said
” If you love me, obey my commandments”He was not talking of the ten Commandments but his own commandments such as :
“You must be born again”
“Love one another as I have loved you “
He also said
“If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love”So obedience to the word of God is the way we show our love for him. Words are cheap. Actions show commitment.
It is not that we have known of him but that he knows us that matters.
Hi,
If God is a trinity then Jn 4 was the perfect time for Jesus to tell us to worship that trinity, or even to tell us to worship God, allowing for those who manipulate the fact that Jesus has divine status shown in half a dozen scriptures of the 3000 that refer to God.Instead he said
“True worshipers will worship THE FATHER in spirit and truth”.Why, if there is equality, would he say this?
Hi FYI,
You seem convinced that the word “kurios” is a key to your theory that Jesus is Yahweh2962 Kurios;from Kuros [authority];lord ,master;
Lord[626]
lord[10]
Lord's[12]
lords[3]
master[36]
Master[2]
master's[3]
masters[8]
masters'[1]
owner[6]
owners[1]
sir[11]
sirs[1]The word is used when Jesus quoted the OT to The devil in Matt 4.10
Deut 6.13
“The Lord, your God, shall you fear; Him you shall serve, and by His name shall you swear”
and the word used for “Lord” is 3068Yhvh ; from 1933b[havah;a prim root;to become:-get[also various forms of verb 'to be']The proper neme of the God of Israel;-
GOD[315]
LORD[6399]
LORD'S[111]So the OT word is very specifically applied to God [Father]and Jesus told us his Father was the one they called their God.[Jn 8.54]
But the greek word “kurios” has a much broader use. Clearly it can be used for God, the Father. But equally it can be used for anyone in authority, anyone who are called lords. It has nothing like the specificity of the OT word.So in Matt 18 in the parable of the king settling with his slaves the word is used about that king. Again Paul said in 1 Cor 8.6 that there are many gods and many 'lords'. Now this was about other beings than God.The mere fact that God is the Lord of lords shows there are other uses for the word 'lord' than the divine in the New Testament.
So any amazing revelation you claim that 'Kurios” shows Jesus to be God, the Father is an empty, shallow and false claim. If you say it relates to Jesus you are right. But it also relates to God, the ultimate Authority, and a myriad of others in any type of authority.
So you must prove they too are not Jesus if you claim such specificity with this word.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2005,20:41) Hi cf,
If you are as a branch in the vine then whom do you worship?Jn4 tells us about true worship and true worshippers. They worship the Father.
Nick,Your errors seem to have no end.
Jesus is much more than just the “vine” – He is also owner/heir of the “vineyard' with the Father:
Matthew 21: 33 “Hear another parable. There was a householder who planted a vineyard, and set a hedge around it, and dug a wine press in it, and built a tower, and let it out to tenants, and went into another country. 34 When the season of fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants, to get his fruit; 35 and the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first; and they did the same to them. 37 Afterward he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' 38 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, 'This is the heir; come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.' 39 And they took him and cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. 40 When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” 41 They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death, and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.” 42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the scriptures: 'The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'? 43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing the fruits of it.”
Oh, and BTW, it is Jesus the Word of God that comes wielding vengance:
Revelation 19: 11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems; and he has a name inscribed which no one knows but himself. 13 He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, followed him on white horses. 15 From his mouth issues a sharp sword with which to smite the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron; he (Jesus) will tread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords.
Quote (Cubes @ July 03 2005,03:48) Quote (Guest @ July 03 2005,02:13) There is only ONE name above all names – that is YHWH Paul says that God gave that name to Jesus Christ, and that every knee will bow to Jesus Christ and confess His name is YHWH.
FYI, perhaps you could choose any book in the bible that we could study online, which would help us to get into the heart of the matter. It should be worthwhile. I recommend a shorter book but it need not be. We would study it from Chapter 1 verse 1 and follow the thought of the writer. We would then use scripture to interpret scripture, and apply any scripture from elsewhere in the scriptures, to substantiate what we are reading as to leave scripture unbroken and conveying the gospel of God.It'd be perhaps easier to follow the argument you present.
If this is agreeable to you, then please start a thread by the title of the book of your choice and I'll meet you there as often as I can.
I think that you are mixing YHWH with the title lord, which is widely applied.
Anyway, have a good rest of the weekend.
Look at the way YHWH is translated into kurios:Matthew 3
1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. KJVJohn was quoting Isaiah.
Isaiah 40
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. KJVMattitiyahu 3
3 And this is he, of whom Yesha'yahu spoke saying,
“A voice crying, 'in the wilderness
Prepare you the way of YHWH,
make straight in the desert, a path for our Elohim'” HRVQuote (Cubes @ July 03 2005,03:48) Quote (Guest @ July 03 2005,02:13) There is only ONE name above all names – that is YHWH Paul says that God gave that name to Jesus Christ, and that every knee will bow to Jesus Christ and confess His name is YHWH.
FYI, perhaps you could choose any book in the bible that we could study online, which would help us to get into the heart of the matter. It should be worthwhile. I recommend a shorter book but it need not be. We would study it from Chapter 1 verse 1 and follow the thought of the writer. We would then use scripture to interpret scripture, and apply any scripture from elsewhere in the scriptures, to substantiate what we are reading as to leave scripture unbroken and conveying the gospel of God.It'd be perhaps easier to follow the argument you present.
If this is agreeable to you, then please start a thread by the title of the book of your choice and I'll meet you there as often as I can.
I think that you are mixing YHWH with the title lord, which is widely applied.
Anyway, have a good rest of the weekend.
Cubes,Gen 5: 1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
When man and woman are married she takes his name as a memorial to the “FACT” that the first woman is of the “exact flesh and blood” of the man from which she was formed in Gen 1:27-28.
So also when children are born, do they take a “different” last name than their parents?
NO!
If their parents are Smith – the child is Smith.
If their parents are Hassan – the child is Hassan.
Does this mean they are the “same” individual?
NO!
It means they are the same “blood”!
Acts 20:28 – Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Christ is the “exact substance” of the Father:
John 14:23 – Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 14:7 – If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
John 14:9 – Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
We are in the family as children of God by being “espoused” to Christ:
2 Corinthians 11:2 – For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
John 14:20 – At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
God was not “simply” just in Christ – they are one as stated above:
John 14: 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Hi FYI,
How can you judge error in others when you cannot yet discern the differences between Jesus and his Father?Quote (Guest @ July 03 2005,14:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2005,20:41) Hi cf,
If you are as a branch in the vine then whom do you worship?Jn4 tells us about true worship and true worshippers. They worship the Father.
Nick,Your errors seem to have no end.
Jesus is much more than just the “vine” – He is also owner/heir of the “vineyard' with the Father:
Matthew 21: 33 “Hear another parable. There was a householder who planted a vineyard, and set a hedge around it, and dug a wine press in it, and built a tower, and let it out to tenants, and went into another country. 34 When the season of fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants, to get his fruit; 35 and the tenants took his servants and beat one, killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first; and they did the same to them. 37 Afterward he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' 38 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, 'This is the heir; come, let us kill him and have his inheritance.' 39 And they took him and cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. 40 When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” 41 They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death, and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.” 42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the scriptures: 'The very stone which the builders rejected has become the head of the corner; this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes'? 43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing the fruits of it.”
Oh, and BTW, it is Jesus the Word of God that comes wielding vengance:
Revelation 19: 11 Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems; and he has a name inscribed which no one knows but himself. 13 He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, followed him on white horses. 15 From his mouth issues a sharp sword with which to smite the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron; he (Jesus) will tread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords.
Hi FYI,
Do you not yet understand that when Jeus returns he will bring the vengeance of God? Surely you cannot yet see the kingdom yet you teach as if you see all. He comes in the authority of his Father to restore the kingdom for his Father.1Cor 15.20
“When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to him, so that God may be all in all”Who subjected everthing to the Son? God
Who is Jesus subject to? GodThat is the Father, the God of Jesus.
Quote (Guest @ July 03 2005,17:48) Quote (Cubes @ July 03 2005,03:48) Quote (Guest @ July 03 2005,02:13) There is only ONE name above all names – that is YHWH Paul says that God gave that name to Jesus Christ, and that every knee will bow to Jesus Christ and confess His name is YHWH.
FYI, perhaps you could choose any book in the bible that we could study online, which would help us to get into the heart of the matter. It should be worthwhile. I recommend a shorter book but it need not be. We would study it from Chapter 1 verse 1 and follow the thought of the writer. We would then use scripture to interpret scripture, and apply any scripture from elsewhere in the scriptures, to substantiate what we are reading as to leave scripture unbroken and conveying the gospel of God.It'd be perhaps easier to follow the argument you present.
If this is agreeable to you, then please start a thread by the title of the book of your choice and I'll meet you there as often as I can.
I think that you are mixing YHWH with the title lord, which is widely applied.
Anyway, have a good rest of the weekend.
Cubes,Gen 5: 1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
When man and woman are married she takes his name as a memorial to the “FACT” that the first woman is of the “exact flesh and blood” of the man from which she was formed in Gen 1:27-28.
So also when children are born, do they take a “different” last name than their parents?
NO!
If their parents are Smith – the child is Smith.
If their parents are Hassan – the child is Hassan.
Does this mean they are the “same” individual?
NO!
It means they are the same “blood”!
Acts 20:28 – Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Christ is the “exact substance” of the Father:
John 14:23 – Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 14:7 – If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
John 14:9 – Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
We are in the family as children of God by being “espoused” to Christ:
2 Corinthians 11:2 – For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
John 14:20 – At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
God was not “simply” just in Christ – they are one as stated above:
John 14: 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Hi FYI,
If Jesus is in the Father then he cannot also be the Father he is in.
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