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HiFYI,
No argument that the Son of God was begotten before time was [from everlasting in the beginning] but he was begotten from the Father or he is not the only begotten Son of God that scripture says he is.
So he is separate in your view but only from lesser created beings only and never from God as we would normally understand a son to be separate from his father.
Of course I disagree.
He said he had life in himself granted to him by the Father. Do you disagree with him? He did not share the life of the Father, as written in scripture.Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God who was sent from God and came in flesh-according to scripture.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 29 2005,00:29) HiFYI,
No argument that the Son of God was begotten before time was [from everlasting in the beginning] but he was begotten from the Father or he is not the only begotten Son of God that scripture says he is.
So he is separate in your view but only from lesser created beings only and never from God as we would normally understand a son to be separate from his father.
Of course I disagree.
He said he had life in himself granted to him by the Father. Do you disagree with him? He did not share the life of the Father, as written in scripture.Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God who was sent from God and came in flesh-according to scripture.
Nick,My posts are clear, Christ is ONE (ECHAD) SPIRIT with the Father.
Christ is as scripture says – eternal – the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:18 – Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Titus 3: 4 but when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, 6 which he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life.
Hi FYI,
Certainly our Saviour God appeared in Christ, not as Christ.You are making the same mistake the Pharisees made. You look at the outside of the cup and not the inside-funnily enough did he not sort of mention that to them?
If you had eyes of the Spirit you would see the contents as well as the glorious container that God did His work through.
Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 28 2005,21:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2005,20:55) Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ June 25 2005,17:10) Ahhh, I change my mind! I choose to bow out of this never ending drivel. Father Yahweh is NOT His son Yahshua and Yahshua did NOT pre-exist.
Hi F4Y,
That is one approach but we would prefer you to stay and try to substantiate your claims that Jesus Christ is not who he said he was and which scripture agrees about him-the Son of God through whom all creation, including that of Satan, was made. He is the only “only begotten” Son. You denigrate the Son who we respect.
Nick,Just out of curiosity I will check in from time to time and see if you substantiate your claims with FYI. I see you have not as of yet, (Ahhh, let me count the posts!
) and I doubt that you will in the future. I would say the same would result between you and I. I do believe that you will find the content of the link that I have posted of some value in your endeavor to substantiate your beliefs with FYI. I perceive this discussion to be quite fruitless and a waste of time. These debates have been going on now long before we ever came into existence Nick.So, you two have it and ramble on!
Hi F4Y,
Very noble of you to pop in and see how the kids are getting on. I agree progress is slow but I am being as patient as I can.2 Corinthians 5:16 – Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Nick,
Exodus 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD (YHWH) thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Matthew 4:10 – Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Matthew 6:24 – No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
John 5:18 – Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 14:1 – Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 12:26 – If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Romans 14: 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Colossians 3:24 – Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
1 Thessalonians 1:9 – For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
Hebrews 9:14 – How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hebrews 12:28 – Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Revelation 22:1 – And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Notice the singularity of the last phrase “and his servants shall serve him”. YHWH is echad! And He occupies the Throne!
Definition of “ECHAD”
One Throne, and YHWH is on it, God and the Lamb.
You can deny it all you want. You can even say it is not written and taught in the bible. But that will not change the truth that it is.
The pharisees denied it and The Lord Jesus said they were of their father the devil.
Quote (Guest @ June 29 2005,01:18) 2 Corinthians 5:16 – Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Hi FYI,
And continuing in the same chapter
2Cor 5.19
” namely that God was IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself..”
Scripture
does not say God WAS Christ.
does not say God was AS ChristIt says God was IN Christ.
Dualling verses:
Acts 20:28 – Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Hi FYI,
So you suggest you cannot serve both God and Christ or you break scripture? So you then derive that if you serve Christ it is acceptable because he is your God.
So then Christ as God would be served as God then? That is not what he said.
Mk 10.45
” For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many”Jesus said
” If anyone serves me he must follow me;and where I am, there my servant will be also; if anyone serves me, the Father will honour him”But we do serve Christ as a branch serves the vine
Coll 3.24
” It is the Lord Christ whom we serve..”Paul also had to defend himself against his accusers that following the way of Jesus he still serves God.
Acts 24.14
” But this I admit to you, that according to the way, which they call a sect, I do serve the God of our Fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the prophets;having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves that there shall certainly be a resurrection from the dead of both the righteous and the wicked”But to serve God we must obey and serve the Son. He is the only way to the Father.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 29 2005,02:08) Hi FYI,
So you suggest you cannot serve both God and Christ or you break scripture? So you then derive that if you serve Christ it is acceptable because he is your God.
So then Christ as God would be served as God then? That is not what he said.
Mk 10.45
” For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many”Jesus said
” If anyone serves me he must follow me;and where I am, there my servant will be also; if anyone serves me, the Father will honour him”But we do serve Christ as a branch serves the vine
Coll 3.24
” It is the Lord Christ whom we serve..”Paul also had to defend himself against his accusers that following the way of Jesus he still serves God.
Acts 24.14
” But this I admit to you, that according to the way, which they call a sect, I do serve the God of our Fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the prophets;having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves that there shall certainly be a resurrection from the dead of both the righteous and the wicked”But to serve God we must obey and serve the Son. He is the only way to the Father.
Nick,Again and again you try and put words in my mouth – quote me verbatum!
Jesus is Lord!
Matthew 11:28 – Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest
Hebrews 4: 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would He not afterward have spoken of another day.
Notice:
The writer of Hebrews says that it was Jesus who said this thru David:
6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker. 7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. 10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: 11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
Whose rest?
YHWH
Quote (Guest @ June 29 2005,02:12) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 29 2005,02:08) Hi FYI,
So you suggest you cannot serve both God and Christ or you break scripture? So you then derive that if you serve Christ it is acceptable because he is your God.
So then Christ as God would be served as God then? That is not what he said.
Mk 10.45
” For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many”Jesus said
” If anyone serves me he must follow me;and where I am, there my servant will be also; if anyone serves me, the Father will honour him”But we do serve Christ as a branch serves the vine
Coll 3.24
” It is the Lord Christ whom we serve..”Paul also had to defend himself against his accusers that following the way of Jesus he still serves God.
Acts 24.14
” But this I admit to you, that according to the way, which they call a sect, I do serve the God of our Fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the prophets;having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves that there shall certainly be a resurrection from the dead of both the righteous and the wicked”But to serve God we must obey and serve the Son. He is the only way to the Father.
Nick,Again and again you try and put words in my mouth – quote me verbatum!
Jesus is Lord!
Matthew 11:28 – Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest
Hebrews 4: 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would He not afterward have spoken of another day.
Hi FYI,
The problem is that you do not often stop to explain why message you are trying to give us with your bucketloads of scriptures.
The fact is, as we have discussed before you are coming from a different spirit, a different spiritual basis. So when you read all those verses you see them in the light of you particular bias. But when I look at them with my bias I see something quite different.
So I try to feed back what I think you are trying to say but you do not not answer these things but object. I am trying to clarify things from your perspective so be patient and spend a little time on 'yes' or 'no' or 'don't know' so we can move on.
Otherwise we do go round in circle while I wait for an answer.By the way do you translate “Joshua son of Nun” as “Jesus” everywhere in the bible? Or are they the same as well?
Hi FYI,
See I answer questions!The rest spoken of is that of God. All things are originally of God and go back to God. Jesus is the agent also in all things of God. The verse quoted follows a scripture in the previous chapter 3.14 quoting the OT words of God. It is God who punished the wayward Israelites.
Quote (Guest @ June 29 2005,02:00) Dualling verses: Acts 20:28 – Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Hi FYI,
You are a little behind on this matter. God is Spirit and does not bleed. His Son bleeds and His blood was shed as a member of God's family.
I suggest you check back on other manuscript versions here too.Quote (Guest @ June 29 2005,02:29) Whose rest? YHWH
Hi FYI,
Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of Yahweh. He, Jesus Christ, the Son of God came in the flesh. Do you agree FYI?Heb 4.4
“And God rested on the seventh day from all His works' and again in this passage
'They shall not enter My rest'
Therefore ,since it remains for some to enter it and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience, He again fixes a certain day.”today” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before
'Today if you hear His voice do not harden your hearts'
For if JOSHUA had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God”
That is Joshua, son of Nun.You are twisting scripture FYI.
Quote (Guest @ June 29 2005,01:22) Nick, Exodus 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD (YHWH) thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Matthew 4:10 – Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Matthew 6:24 – No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
John 5:18 – Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 14:1 – Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 12:26 – If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Romans 14: 17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Colossians 3:24 – Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
1 Thessalonians 1:9 – For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
Hebrews 9:14 – How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hebrews 12:28 – Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Revelation 22:1 – And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Notice the singularity of the last phrase “and his servants shall serve him”. YHWH is echad! And He occupies the Throne!
Definition of “ECHAD”
One Throne, and YHWH is on it, God and the Lamb.
You can deny it all you want. You can even say it is not written and taught in the bible. But that will not change the truth that it is.
The pharisees denied it and The Lord Jesus said they were of their father the devil.
Hi FYI,
Who is Yahweh to you?
Father, Son and Spirit?Funny then only Father and Son are on the throne.
Can you explain this apparent anomaly in trinity theory?
Hi B,
Will you accept Jesus Christ came in the flesh?[1Jn 4.2]Is Jesus Christ the Son of God to you?
Hi FYI,
You quote Heb 9.14. As you know the chapters 8-10 compare the Old Testament anilmal sacrifice means of obtaining forgiveness from God with that of the sacrifice of Jesus for us.” But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, he entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood. He entered the Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if all the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God”
So Jesus offered himself to God as our sacrifice. He made the choice to do so. He was not the God he offered himself to and neither was he in any way part of his Father God as a trinity.
Such doctrinal follies as trinity or oneness destroy the full meaning of the work of God on earth. It takes away all choice.
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