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Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 22 2005,22:11) Hi FYI,
Lets talk more when you are rightly founded in truth.
Sounds good to me….ok I'm ready!My feet are on the Solid Rock, My God is my Rock!
Quote WIT, I cut and pasted the definition of the word “doxology” only for those that may not have been familiar with the word, your not the only one that reads these you know.
No, scripture alone is not enough to establish sound doctrine.
The things of God are spriitually discerned. Know man knows the things of God except the spirit – the saved have the ming of Christ because it has been revealed by the spirit.
Acts 8: 27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me?
FYI,
I rest my case. As far as I can tell, you are admitting that the Trinity doctrine can only be “discerned” by those who have the right Spirit, and that it is not taught explicitly in scripture. Well, I respectfully disagree with your insistance that scripture alone is not good enough to establish sound doctrine. The only way for us to know if our foundation is true is for us to compare our doctrines with what is taught in scripture. Otherwise, what we may think is “the Spirit leading” could be the great deception that the apostles warned about repeatedly.
Quote Romans 16:17-18
“Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.”Quote 2 Corinthians 11:3-4
“But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted–you may well put up with it!”Quote Colossians 2:4-8
“Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with persuasive words. For though I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ.As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
And finally…
Quote But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.When you confess a different doctrine than what has been taught in scripture, you risk falling into great deceit.
Is there a Trinitarian out there who is willing to take up my challenge who does believe that the fundamental doctrines of our faith should be established by scripture alone?
liljohn?
kenosis?
DVD?
epistemaniac?
anyone?
*bump*
WIT wrote:
“FYI,
I rest my case. As far as I can tell, you are admitting that the Trinity doctrine can only be “discerned” by those who have the right Spirit, and that it is not taught explicitly in scripture. Well, I respectfully disagree with your insistance that scripture alone is not good enough to establish sound doctrine. The only way for us to know if our foundation is true is for us to compare our doctrines with what is taught in scripture. Otherwise, what we may think is “the Spirit leading” could be the great deception that the apostles warned about repeatedly.”
1 Corinthians 2:14 – But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
John 8:44 – Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
———————-
Jesus told Nicodemus:
John 3:3 – Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Please, show me a scripture in the OT that says this explicitly.
Yet Jesus EXPECTED him to know, why? Because they were supposed to be taught by the Spirit!
John 5:39 – Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
John 16:13 – 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 10:28 – And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
FYI,
Your scripture you are using states nothing of the fact on trinity. Once again please write a scripture down that defines or shows us what the trinity is.
S
Quote (callsign @ June 23 2005,00:12) FYI, Your scripture you are using states nothing of the fact on trinity. Once again please write a scripture down that defines or shows us what the trinity is.
S
Anyone who “claims” they understand God is a liar, and the truth is not in him. God is more than human vocabulary and thought can possibly describe. The human mind in arrogance alone tries to define from a finite point of view the infinite God.We are beings of His creation. We have not the resources nor the experience to describe or define our maker. If you “claim” you can, you are arrogant and egotistical.
If you want to understand God – look at Jesus. He alone is the definition of God, and no one understands Him.
John 14:9 – Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Quote (Guest @ June 23 2005,00:22) Quote (callsign @ June 23 2005,00:12) FYI, Your scripture you are using states nothing of the fact on trinity. Once again please write a scripture down that defines or shows us what the trinity is.
S
Anyone who “claims” they understand God is a liar, and the truth is not in him. God is more than human vocabulary and thought can possibly describe. The human mind in arrogance alone tries to define from a finite point of view the infinite God.We are beings of His creation. We have not the resources nor the experience to describe or define our maker. If you “claim” you can, you are arrogant and egotistical.
If you want to understand God – look at Jesus. He alone is the definition of God, and no one understands Him.
John 14:9 – Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Hi<
It had to come -the classic trinitarian defense. When they are shown that the theory is untenably confusing and totally unbiblical..Wait for it..
“Nobody can understand God”.
Actually there is a lot we can learn about God and his ways so long as you approach scripture with an open mind and let it teach you. If you approach it with a predetermined doctrine you may also find some support as God allows us to fall into pits if we do not trust Him.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 23 2005,01:45) Quote (Guest @ June 23 2005,00:22) Quote (callsign @ June 23 2005,00:12) FYI, Your scripture you are using states nothing of the fact on trinity. Once again please write a scripture down that defines or shows us what the trinity is.
S
Anyone who “claims” they understand God is a liar, and the truth is not in him. God is more than human vocabulary and thought can possibly describe. The human mind in arrogance alone tries to define from a finite point of view the infinite God.We are beings of His creation. We have not the resources nor the experience to describe or define our maker. If you “claim” you can, you are arrogant and egotistical.
If you want to understand God – look at Jesus. He alone is the definition of God, and no one understands Him.
John 14:9 – Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Hi<
It had to come -the classic trinitarian defense. When they are shown that the theory is untenably confusing and totally unbiblical..Wait for it..
“Nobody can understand God”.
Actually there is a lot we can learn about God and his ways so long as you approach scripture with an open mind and let it teach you. If you approach it with a predetermined doctrine you may also find some support as God allows us to fall into pits if we do not trust Him.
There we go,the classic response of arrogance.
Hi FYI,
If this is your way of saying you do not understand the ways of God that is fair enough. But ignorance admitted does not have to be an endpoint. I am ignorant too but I know where truth is to be found-in the Word of God and not the additions to the Word made by men.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 23 2005,02:55) Hi FYI,
If this is your way of saying you do not understand the ways of God that is fair enough. But ignorance admitted does not have to be an endpoint. I am ignorant too but I know where truth is to be found-in the Word of God and not the additions to the Word made by men.
It is found in the revelation of the written word of God by the Holy Spirit!Hi FYI,
Where is this treasure then to be found? Which denomination holds the key to this esoteric wisdom? How can we prove it to be true or should we take it in faith. Does it always agree with the Word of God? Has it stopped evolving yet?Quote (WhatIsTrue @ June 22 2005,23:03) Is there a Trinitarian out there who is willing to take up my challenge who does believe that the fundamental doctrines of our faith should be established by scripture alone? liljohn?
kenosis?
DVD?
epistemaniac?
anyone?
hey there what is true… whats happening?listen, there is really no need for me to accept your challenge…. its what I have been doing all along….
after all… you can thank trinitarians like Martin Luther and John calvin for both restoring proper hermeneutical approaches AND sola scriptura to the forefront of the development of doctrine….blessings
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 23 2005,05:20) God knows those who are His, E.
yes Nick… and this has exactly what to do with anything….? saying that God knows whose are His is a brilliantly clear statement of the obvious….Hi E,
We have told you other obvious things in the past like God is God and Jesus is His only begotten Son who was with God in the beginning.Quote (WhatIsTrue @ June 22 2005,17:45) Construct a definition of the Trinity using scripture alone – no interjections of your interpretations, just the scriptures themselves, arranged in whatever order you like, in such a way as to explain the Trinity doctrine.
Hi WIT,
I see you are recycling this one again. Does it make you feel like a big man to belittle people the way you do? For this test that you have constructed to have validity, WIT, then you first have to demonstrate to us all that every biblical doctrine you hold is explicitly revealed in the Bible and can be defined using scripture alone (no interjections please).So why dont you start with he doctrine that Christ didnt pre-exist his incarnation. I would say this particular fact has escaped the notice of about 99.5% of christians so I would like you to unambiguously lay it out for me using scripture alone please (no interjections).That way we may all see we have been decieved. And let us judge its veracity.
Also WIT, I would be interested to know if you acknowledge the existence of Satan. Do you agree with the vast majority of christians that He is a nefarious fallen cherub?? If so I would like you to apply your rules and demonstate this fact too please.
When you have done the above (assuming that you majority doctrine holder on satan) could you please outline ALL the various doctrines that comprise your theology in like manner and then (and only then) have you earned the right to ask others to do this for you.
Be well
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