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Quote (WhatIsTrue @ June 22 2005,15:22) kenosis, Quote Hi Nick Hassan.
I have to assume that you have decided to decline my challenge. That is a shame because i thought you might see it as a good opportunity to “expose” the faultiness of the doctrine. Since you did not 'front up', any future attacks on the veracity of the trinity doctine by you will, to me, appear somewhat hollow.Will you accept my challenge?
WHATISTRUE:A blessing is conferred from one individual to another individual in the name of God, the only one in authority who could perform it.
Yet I prove that these blessings are conferred in the New Testament from the Apostles to the hearers of the message from God (Father, Son, & Holy Spirit) and yet seeing and hearing you deny the truth.
Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary:
Bless – (1.) God blesses his people when he bestows on them some gift temporal or spiritual (Gen. 1:22; 24:35; Job 42:12; Ps. 45:2; 104:24, 35).
(2.) We bless God when we thank him for his mercies (Ps. 103:1, 2; 145:1, 2).
(3.) A man blesses himself when he invokes God's blessing (Isa. 65:16), or rejoices in God's goodness to him (Deut. 29:19; Ps. 49:18).
(4.) One blesses another when he expresses good wishes or offers prayer to God for his welfare (Gen. 24:60; 31:55; 1 Sam. 2:20). Sometimes blessings were uttered under divine inspiration, as in the case of Noah, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses (Gen. 9:26, 27; 27:28, 29, 40; 48:15-20; 49:1-28; Deut. 33). The priests were divinely authorized to bless the people (Deut. 10:8; Num. 6:22-27). We have many examples of apostolic benediction (2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 6:23, 24; 2 Thess. 3:16, 18; Heb. 13:20, 21; 1 Pet. 5:10, 11).
(5.) Among the Jews in their thank-offerings the master of the feast took a cup of wine in his hand, and after having blessed God for it and for other mercies then enjoyed, handed it to his guests, who all partook of it. Ps. 116:13 refers to this custom. It is also alluded to in 1 Cor. 10:16, where the apostle speaks of the “cup of blessing.”
Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words:
lit., “to speak well of” (eu, “well,” logos, “a word”), signifies, (a) “to praise, to celebrate with praises,” of that which is addressed to God, acknowledging His goodness, with desire for His glory, Luke 1:64; 2:28; 24:51,53; Jas. 3:9; (b) “to invoke blessings upon a person,” e.g., Luke 6:28; Rom. 12:14. The present participle Passive, “blessed, praised,” is especially used of Christ in Matt. 21:9; 23:39, and the parallel passages; also in John 12:13; Â “to consecrate a thing with solemn prayers, to ask God's blessing on a thing,” e.g., Luke 9:16; 1 Cor. 10:16; (d) “to cause to prosper, to make happy, to bestow blessings on,” said of God, e.g., in Acts 3:26; Gal. 3:9; Eph. 1:3. Cp. the synonym aineo, “to praise.” See PRAISE.
“to bless,” is used in the Passive Voice, Acts 3:25; Gal. 3:8. The prefix en apparently indicates the person on whom the blessing is conferred.
from a root mak—, meaning “large, lengthy,” found also in makros, “long,” mekos, “length,” hence denotes “to pronounce happy, blessed,” Luke 1:48; Jas. 5:11. See HAPPY.
akin to A, 1, means “blessed, praised;” it is applied only to God, Mark 14:61; Luke 1:68; Rom. 1:25; 9:5; 2 Cor. 1:3; 11:31; Eph. 1:3; 1 Pet. 1:3. In the Sept. it is also applied to man, e.g., in Gen. 24:31; 26:29; Deut. 7:14; Judg. 17:2; Ruth 2:20; 1 Sam. 15:13.
akin to A, No. 3, is used in the beatitudes in Matt. 5 and Luke 6, is especially frequent in the Gospel of Luke, and is found seven times in Revelation, 1:3; 14:13; 16:15; 19:9; 20:6; 22:7,14. It is said of God twice, 1 Tim. 1:11; 6:15. In the beatitudes the Lord indicates not only the characters that are “blessed,” but the nature of that which is the highest good.akin to A, 1, lit., “good speaking, praise,” is used of (a) God and Christ, Rev. 5:12,13; 7:12; (b) the invocation of blessings, benediction, Heb. 12:17; Jas. 3:10; Â the giving of thanks, 1 Cor. 10:16; (d) a blessing, a benefit bestowed, Rom. 15:29; Gal. 3:14; Eph. 1:3; Heb. 6:7; of a monetary gift sent to needy believers, 2 Cor. 9:5,6; (e) in a bad sense, of fair speech, Rom. 16:18, RV, where it is joined with chrestologia, “smooth speech,” the latter relating to the substance, eulogia to the expression. See BOUNTY.
akin to A, 3, “blessedness,” indicates an ascription of blessing rather than a state; hence in Rom. 4:6, where the AV renders it as a noun, “(describeth) the blessedness;” the RV rightly puts “(pronounceth) blessing.” So Rom. 4:9. In Gal. 4:15 the AV has “blessedness,” RV, “gratulation.” The Galatian believers had counted themselves happy when they heard and received the Gospel. Had they lost that opinion? See GRATULATION.
Note: In Acts 13:34, hosia, lit., “holy things,” is translated “mercies” (AV), “blessings” (RV).
I previously wrote:This is easy, but i doubt you will believe – without eyes to see you cannot see even if you stare right at it.
We are to incur blessings from one source in heaven. Funny how those blessings change from YHWH ALONE (echad) in the OT to 2 & 3 in the New:
I'll do it with doxology alone:
OT doxology:
May God be gracious to us and bless us and make his face shine upon us, (Ps 67.1)
Say to them: “The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you; the LORD turn his face toward you and give you peace.” (Num 6.23f)
Eli would bless Elkanah and his wife, saying, “May the LORD give you children by this woman (I Sam 2.20)
The benediction/prayer of Jacob in Gen 48: “Then he blessed Joseph and said, 'May the God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, the God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day, the Angel who has delivered me from all harm — may he bless these boys.
NT doxology:
2 Cor 13.14: May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. (2 Cor 13.14)
Rom 1.7 (and 2 Cor 1.2, 1 Cor 1.3, Eph 1.2, Phil 1.2): Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom 16.20: The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
I Cor 16.23: The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you.
Rev 1.4: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
Eph 6.23: Peace to the brothers, and love with faith from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Cor 1.3-4: Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort
Gal 1.3: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ June 22 2005,17:29) FYI, Do you understand the question I am asking you?
I gave you scripture.From my first post on this subject:
Quote
Construct a definition of the Trinity using scripture alone – no interjections of your interpretations, just the scriptures themselves, arranged in whatever order you like, in such a way as to explain the Trinity doctrine.FYI,
Do you understand what I am asking here? If so, you will recognize that neither of your responses fits this description.
FYI,
By the way, you never answered my other question either.
Quote Do you believe that scripture alone should establish the fundamental doctrines of the faith, or do you believe that we inherit our fundamental beliefs from tradition? *bump*
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ June 22 2005,17:45) From my first post on this subject: Quote
Construct a definition of the Trinity using scripture alone – no interjections of your interpretations, just the scriptures themselves, arranged in whatever order you like, in such a way as to explain the Trinity doctrine.FYI,
Do you understand what I am asking here? If so, you will recognize that neither of your responses fits this description.
WIT,I did that, but you apparently don't like the way I did it 'cause it doesn't fit your false definition.
I used the scriptures I wanted and explained the Trinity.
Otherwise I would have to post the entire bible which I will not do, you can go buy one at your local store.
Quote (Guest @ June 22 2005,11:15) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 22 2005,09:51) Quote (Guest @ June 22 2005,09:37) ““The beginning and the creation of God.” The word “beginning” is the Greek word arch meaning (a) first in time or (b) first in place, cause, or origin. The point is Jesus Christ is the origin, the cause, the Creator of all things (John 1:3; Col. 1:16-17; Rev. 1:8; 21:6). He is the Creator of this earth, now fallen under the curse of sin through rebellion to Him. But He is also the Creator of the coming kingdom and the eternal state of a new heavens and earth in which dwells perfect righteousness (cf. Isa. 65:17f).”
Hi R,
Jesu is not the source of all things but the means through which the source, his Father, created all things. He is not the Father but was with the Father in the beginning.
WOW Nick,You quote no scripture, you only say a statement and we are to take your word?
Not on your life! We quote scripture and you make smug comments!
Hi FYI,
You surprise me. I did not think you would need to have the scriptural basis always shown to you but that you would recognise what comes from scripture.FYI,
OK. Let me spell it out for you:
Do the scriptures you used say there is one God?
Do the scriptures you used say that God is three persons?
Do the scriptures you used say that each of the three persons is fully God?
Do the scriptures you used say that each of the three persons is co-equal?
Do the scriptures you used say that each of the three persons is co-eternal?
And finally, did you use scripture alone in your reply, or did you first set up a premise, list scriptures that you think support that premise, and then add a bunch of extra junk at the end that you cut and paste from a website rather than from the actual Word of God?
If you can't comply with my challenge, just say so, but don't pretend that you are complying with my request when you haven't even come close.
By the way, you still haven't answered my first question:
Do you believe that scripture alone should establish the fundamental doctrines of the faith, or do you believe that we inherit our fundamental beliefs from tradition?
Hi,
God is one.
One in person.
Not one in multiple persons.“Echad” does not change not change this truth.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ June 22 2005,19:42) FYI, OK. Let me spell it out for you:
Do the scriptures you used say there is one God?
Do the scriptures you used say that God is three persons?
Do the scriptures you used say that each of the three persons is fully God?
Do the scriptures you used say that each of the three persons is co-equal?
Do the scriptures you used say that each of the three persons is co-eternal?
And finally, did you use scripture alone in your reply, or did you first set up a premise, list scriptures that you think support that premise, and then add a bunch of extra junk at the end that you cut and paste from a website rather than from the actual Word of God?
If you can't comply with my challenge, just say so, but don't pretend that you are complying with my request when you haven't even come close.
By the way, you still haven't answered my first question:
Do you believe that scripture alone should establish the fundamental doctrines of the faith, or do you believe that we inherit our fundamental beliefs from tradition?
WIT,I cut and pasted the definition of the word “doxology” only for those that may not have been familiar with the word, your not the only one that reads these you know.
No, scripture alone is not enough to establish sound doctrine.
The things of God are spriitually discerned. Know man knows the things of God except the spirit – the saved have the ming of Christ because it has been revealed by the spirit.
Acts 8: 27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me?
But, all things are still NOT revealed to all people, Paul spoke of revelations not lawful for him to utter.
Quote (Guest @ June 22 2005,20:46) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ June 22 2005,19:42) FYI, OK. Let me spell it out for you:
Do the scriptures you used say there is one God?
Do the scriptures you used say that God is three persons?
Do the scriptures you used say that each of the three persons is fully God?
Do the scriptures you used say that each of the three persons is co-equal?
Do the scriptures you used say that each of the three persons is co-eternal?
And finally, did you use scripture alone in your reply, or did you first set up a premise, list scriptures that you think support that premise, and then add a bunch of extra junk at the end that you cut and paste from a website rather than from the actual Word of God?
If you can't comply with my challenge, just say so, but don't pretend that you are complying with my request when you haven't even come close.
By the way, you still haven't answered my first question:
Do you believe that scripture alone should establish the fundamental doctrines of the faith, or do you believe that we inherit our fundamental beliefs from tradition?
WIT,I cut and pasted the definition of the word “doxology” only for those that may not have been familiar with the word, your not the only one that reads these you know.
No, scripture alone is not enough to establish sound doctrine.
The things of God are spriitually discerned. Know man knows the things of God except the spirit – the saved have the ming of Christ because it has been revealed by the spirit.
Acts 8: 27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me?
Hi FYI,
Thank you for confessing that the basis of what you teach is not scripture alone. That should be very revealing for your readers. This forum is for those who search the scriptures for truth and not the doctrines of men. Why do you expect us to take notice of all the scriptures you post if you do not yourself only rely on them?Jesus admonished the Pharisees for holding their traditions in higher regard than scripture.
Jesus said a wise man will dig deep and lay his foundation on his teachings.2Tim 3.16
“All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness ; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work”Nick,
Thank you for your thoughtful response, it says volumes in that you believe that the scriptures can be interpretted by man without the Spirit of God, that is precisely the error that others got into over the years.
For example, Hitler used a scriptural basis to “prove” that the Jews should be exterminated as a race.
It is God who opens our hearts to recieve His word and be born-again.
“The natural man receveth not the things of God for they are foolishness to him.”
You and others here fit this scripture perfectly, always asking questions of others rather than seeking the truth form the “true” teacher – The Comforter, the Holy Ghost.
Therefore you have erred greatly!
Quote (Guest @ June 22 2005,21:31) Nick, Thank you for your thoughtful response, it says volumes in that you believe that the scriptures can be interpretted by man without the Spirit of God, that is precisely the error that others got into over the years.
For example, Hitler used a scriptural basis to “prove” that the Jews should be exterminated as a race.
It is God who opens our hearts to recieve His word and be born-again.
“The natural man receveth not the things of God for they are foolishness to him.”
You and others here fit this scripture perfectly, always asking questions of others rather than seeking the truth form the “true” teacher – The Comforter, the Holy Ghost.
Therefore you have erred greatly!
Hi FYI,
The Spirit who wrote the scriptures through men is essential for men to understand them. The Spirit teaches us and reminds us of the teaching of Jesus, not of the ideas of men.So where does your inspiration come from? If it was the Spirit you would uphold the teaching of the bible, not man made doctrines?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 22 2005,21:39) Quote (Guest @ June 22 2005,21:31) Nick, Thank you for your thoughtful response, it says volumes in that you believe that the scriptures can be interpretted by man without the Spirit of God, that is precisely the error that others got into over the years.
For example, Hitler used a scriptural basis to “prove” that the Jews should be exterminated as a race.
It is God who opens our hearts to recieve His word and be born-again.
“The natural man receveth not the things of God for they are foolishness to him.”
You and others here fit this scripture perfectly, always asking questions of others rather than seeking the truth form the “true” teacher – The Comforter, the Holy Ghost.
Therefore you have erred greatly!
Hi FYI,
The Spirit who wrote the scriptures through men is essential for men to understand them. The Spirit teaches us and reminds us of the teaching of Jesus, not of the ideas of men.So where does your inspiration come from? If it was the Spirit you would uphold the teaching of the bible, not man made doctrines?
Nick,I know you want to make me look bad but you are making yourself look rediculous.
Quote me verbatum, I never said we should follow the traditions of men.
You assumed it and have shown your arrogance and pride.
Hi FYI,
Do you interpret the Word according you traditional doctrines or are your doctrines your own, developed from the Word?Hi FYI,
It explains a lot to know scripture alone is not the foundation of your faith. I would urge you to reconsider this approach as all we need to know is to be found in the beautiful and powerful Word of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 22 2005,21:54) Hi FYI,
Do you interpret the Word according you traditional doctrines or are your doctrines your own, developed from the Word?
Nick,You obviously have no intention of hearing what I have to say, everything I have said has been proven with scripture.
Why would you think I would continue to answer your questions when it is obvious that the intent is to belittle others in the vain attempt to exalt yourself.
You MUST humble yourself before the Lord and ask to be taught of Him rather than being taught the doctrines of men. That is precisely what happened to the Pharisees. They left the Spirit of the Law for pride and arrogant self exaltation.
They rejected their Lord and Saviour not accepting the hour of their visitation.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 22 2005,21:56) Hi FYI,
It explains a lot to know scripture alone is not the foundation of your faith. I would urge you to reconsider this approach as all we need to know is to be found in the beautiful and powerful Word of God.
My teacher is the Holy Spirit, He reveals the truth in the scriptures – not man.Who is teaching you the scriptures? Is it not the one who wrote the documents on this website? I submit it is and that you are being deceptive for you and others here are preaching your own doctrines not those of our Lord.
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