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Quote (david @ Oct. 15 2008,14:42) Quote Moses gave the written law on tablets but there was an oral law given in Leviticus that spoke to incest. David, if I had to give a prize to the best debater here – it would be you! That's a compliment, by the way.
Well thankyou mandy.
I don't really consider myself a debater, just someone who recognizes truth. Speaking of which—Moses, the oral law, the written law, all were given to the Israelites. The Israelites where the offspring of Israel (Jacob) who was the offspring of Isaac, who was of Abraham, who was Lot's Uncle.We're told at Gen 25:7 that Abraham lived to a good old age of 175.
Abraham was 100 when he had Isaac (gen 17:17). (Maybe Lot was already dead by this time.)
Then, Isaac had to have Jacob, and then Jacob had to have THE NATION OF ISRAEL, to which the law was given.
So, some time passed.Lot knew of no law, written or oral.
But, like david, he could have thought about what he was told orally about God, what was passed down. But this was no law.
David….David….Just because Lot couldn't read the fine print (the law) doesn't mean he wasn't accountable. Boy, you really are giving him a lot of room here.
Of course he could have remembered what he was told about God and what God thought about certain actions. Did Lot get off the hook because it wasn't written in stone yet?
Quote Just because Lot couldn't read the fine print (the law) doesn't mean he wasn't accountable. I'm just saying that the law, leviticus etc, came later, after Lot's time.
Quote (david @ Oct. 16 2008,03:00) Quote Just because Lot couldn't read the fine print (the law) doesn't mean he wasn't accountable. I'm just saying that the law, leviticus etc, came later, after Lot's time.
How did Noah know which animals were clean and unclean if the law came later?Quote (david @ Oct. 16 2008,20:00) Quote Just because Lot couldn't read the fine print (the law) doesn't mean he wasn't accountable. I'm just saying that the law, leviticus etc, came later, after Lot's time.
Oh, gotcha. Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes I'm not sure which came first – the oral or the written law. I know some stone was involved somewhere. 😉Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 16 2008,23:08) Quote (david @ Oct. 16 2008,03:00) Quote Just because Lot couldn't read the fine print (the law) doesn't mean he wasn't accountable. I'm just saying that the law, leviticus etc, came later, after Lot's time.
How did Noah know which animals were clean and unclean if the law came later?
Hi KevinHow did the animals know to come to Noah?
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 17 2008,04:06) Hi Kevin How did the animals know to come to Noah?
Blessings WJ
Noah called ” here turkeyturkeyturkey, here donkey donkey donkey, here Cryolophosaurus Cryolophosaurus Cryolophosaurus.”
Tim
Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 16 2008,23:08) Quote (david @ Oct. 16 2008,03:00) Quote Just because Lot couldn't read the fine print (the law) doesn't mean he wasn't accountable. I'm just saying that the law, leviticus etc, came later, after Lot's time.
How did Noah know which animals were clean and unclean if the law came later?
Greetings KJ……Excellent point !! Lots' behavior is why God was compelled to give us the Law and in his mercy he followed through and gave us a savior…Quote (theodorej @ Oct. 17 2008,22:34) Lots' behavior is why God was compelled to give us the Law
What did man gain from eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, if no one seemed to know the difference until after God gave us the law?Tim
Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 17 2008,04:06) Quote (david @ Oct. 16 2008,20:00) Quote Just because Lot couldn't read the fine print (the law) doesn't mean he wasn't accountable. I'm just saying that the law, leviticus etc, came later, after Lot's time.
Oh, gotcha. Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes I'm not sure which came first – the oral or the written law. I know some stone was involved somewhere. 😉
Greetings Mandy…….That was Humarabis' code written on the rosetta stone…Quote (david @ Oct. 16 2008,11:16) Quote And you accuse me of being deluded?! It wasn't an accusation so much as a statement of fact.
Contradictions are different than not knowing the answer. There have been numerous times where we don't know the answer to something, only to learn the answer upon further research or further time.
Yet, you seem to think not having the answer at this time equals being wrong. That is what I am talking about when I accurately used the word. I am sorry for being unclear.
David have a look athttp://www.strangehorizons.com/2002/20020325/excavating.shtml
especially under the heading “What We Can Learn From Bones”. Consider also the fact I learned from my dentist at my last visit that root canals get narrower with age due to mineralisation. At 950 years old you might imagine that root canals would be closed up altogether, and cranial sutures would be completely smooth.
Of course there is no scientific theory of how humans might life to an order of magnitude older than we do today, so there is nothing to refute scientifically. I am not aware of any reports of ancient human remains being aged at vastly greater lifespans.
When I claim people are deluded I put up evidence. How about you put up some evidence for your claim, or withdraw the 'deluded' accusation?
Stuart
Quote When I claim people are deluded I put up evidence. How about you put up some evidence for your claim, or withdraw the 'deluded' accusation? I have proved it. This thread exists. If you could actually disprove anything in the Bible, that would be the end of it. You'd say: Here, look. And you'd only need on thing, one actual true solid thing.
When Einstein proved that even light is effected by gravity (it bends), did he have to prove it over and over and over?
Instead you have many things, none of which disprove anything. All you have are questions without answers.
My statement about you being deluded was largely the fact that you take questions without answers yet, to mean there is no answer.
It seems, this is what you believe regarding the Bible. It certainly isn't what you believe regarding science I hope.
I say deluded because it seems delusional to me to keep making statements that you have proved anything. What you do is you take one possible definition of a word (the one you choose) and you apply it to another part of the Bible and make what seems to be a contradiction–if not for the other more general definitions. The most you really could say on such things, is, that it is not clear.
To me, it seems delusional to look through thousands of pages and thousands of years of history and not find anything concrete, anything you can actually say: “Look, this proves it.”
And so you keep giving us non-proofs, things that don't as of yet have answers, but also things that don't actually contradict anything we absolutely know.In science there have been many things that seemed contradictory, until we learned just a little bit more. Yet, you ignore this and look to your non-proofs and expect us to suddenly say: “oh right.”
If I hurt your feelings or something, I did not expect to. I will withdraw my claim that you're deluded, not on grounds of inaccuracy, but on grounds of me not wanting to make you feel bad. I'm sorry.
david.
David
As you insist, lets play by the rules of science then. I will only make truth claims based on evidence. Everything else I will label as hypothesis or speculation. Of course I do that anyway. Now to play your part, you will have to concede the possibility that the bible is wrong. If there are 'only questions' then there is only hypothesis anyway.
Can you yourself keep to that which you demand from me?
Stuart
Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 18 2008,03:00) Quote (theodorej @ Oct. 17 2008,22:34) Lots' behavior is why God was compelled to give us the Law
What did man gain from eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, if no one seemed to know the difference until after God gave us the law?Tim
Greetings Tim……Man in effect became responsible for actions and in assuming that responsibility he was able to chose between right and wrong….good/evil…Man in a sense was forced to stand for something and in a sense had developed character….
Definition of character……To know the difference between right and wrong and deciding to do right…Hi Theodore,
But didn't you say that God was compelled to give us the law so that we knew what was right and what was wrong?
Why was God compelled to do that if man already knew what was right and what was wrong from eating the fruit?Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 19 2008,03:31) Hi Theodore, But didn't you say that God was compelled to give us the law so that we knew what was right and what was wrong?
Why was God compelled to do that if man already knew what was right and what was wrong from eating the fruit?Tim
Greetings Tim…..The eating of the apple was an act of disobedience that was driven by vanity and pride…I would think that there was no knowledge of good and evil until the man realized his shame and decided to cover his body…It became neccessary for the written law because post deluvian society was caught up in a multitude of pagen religions and worship of Idols….Hi theodorej
This is the miserable (and I conclude untrue) view of humanity that is a factor turning people away from mainstream christianity. 'Vanity and pride' gives no sensible insight to human motivation. What use is this, except into the minds of those political masters who wrote the doctrines? Human 'knowledge of good and evil' is such an unbelievably banal trivialisation of moral philosophy I think most people who have thought about it must reject it as at best a story of goat-herding tribes with little time for contemplation and reasoning.
Stuart
Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 17 2008,08:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 17 2008,04:06) Hi Kevin How did the animals know to come to Noah?
Blessings WJ
Noah called ” here turkeyturkeyturkey, here donkey donkey donkey, here Cryolophosaurus Cryolophosaurus Cryolophosaurus.” Tim
In reviewing the thread….This still made me laugh!!! I love your humor, Tim.
Goodnight all. My love to every one of you!
MandyHay Stu……………I liked you other monkey Picture better .
love and peace to you and yours………………………………..gene
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