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Romans 8
New International Version (NIV)5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life[d] because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you.d) Romans 8:10 Or you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive
e) Romans 8:11 Some manuscripts bodies throughThose that live spiritual life live in the reign of God.
Their body is subject to death even as they live in the kingdom.
Their body that is subject to death will be given life.Hi Kerwin.
Just out of curiosity, can I ask why you added the word 'Realm' in verse 9 and elsewhere?
By adding the extra word you are changing the context of the 'location' of where such person's reside.
In effect, you are saying that those of Mankind which are 'in the Spirit' live in Heaven.
Romans 8 describes the 'Spiritual Person' and 'In the Spirit' means 'Being Spirit Led'.
Could you write the question again without the misleading added word?
Thank-you Kerwin.
Consider what it would mean if it were true that:
'Those in the Realm of the Flesh cannot please God',
In other words:
'Those on Earth cannot please God'.Hmm…Seth, Noah, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Joseph, Moses, David, Solomon, …, Jesus!!”
Toby,
It is the translators of the NIV that chose to add “realm” for their own reasons.
I took those living in the “realm of flesh” to mean those obeying the rule of their sinful nature. On the other hand, those that live in the realm of Spirit obey the rule of God.
The seed of the reign of God on earth has been sown. It was sown in Jerusalem in the First Century.
Hi KW,
Does it matter?
Yes we are warned about changing the sacred WORD in rev 22 and the curses are terrible.REALM speaks of a kingdom and so adding it changes the whole perspective of the verse.
Nowhere else is a KINGDOM OF THE FLESH spoken of in scripture. There is the dominion of darkness that includes the rule of flesh by satan's demons [sin living within] but it is not confined to flesh but exists in as wickedness in heavenly places too[Eph 6.12. rev 12.7f]. So guess whose idea it was to change it to a realm of flesh.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,03:03) Hi KW,
The NIV adds quite a lot.
dangerous stuff.
Nick,It is best to test the spirit of even the translations of Scriptures we use.
Kerwin,
Then please, use a good translation.Do you usually use that version?
It is clearly an added word, that can easily be used to give wrongful ideas.Ok, so you agree the following:
1) Jesus was raised up from the dead in the body he was buried in but that had been made Spiritual by the Holy Spirit
2) Spiritual Body means that the body is sinless, Has power and is Glorious as described by Paul
3) Jesus showed this glorious Flesh and bone body as proof to his disciples
4) The wounds in the glorious (called Heavenly) body are to serve as everlasting proof of Jesus' triumph over sin and death.Hi Toby,
Compare Jn 12.41 in the NIV with other versions
You will see the word JESUS there in the NIV which is not found in any manuscript.Quote (toby @ Mar. 25 2012,04:12) Kerwin,
Then please, use a good translation.Do you usually use that version?
It is clearly an added word, that can easily be used to give wrongful ideas.Ok, so you agree the following:
1) Jesus was raised up from the dead in the body he was buried in but that had been made Spiritual by the Holy Spirit
2) Spiritual Body means that the body is sinless, Has power and is Glorious as described by Paul
3) Jesus showed this glorious Flesh and bone body as proof to his disciples
4) The wounds in the glorious (called Heavenly) body are to serve as everlasting proof of Jesus' triumph over sin and death.
Toby,I agree with 1 and 3.
Fallen angels have what seems to be spiritual bodies.
All I know for sure about the marks on Jesus' body is they were there for some to believe he is alive.
Hi Toby,
All those who share the spirit of Christ in their mortal bodies are like Jesus.
When they die they lose their own spirit but are alive to God-just like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob [lk 20 37f].The only difference is that Jesus Christ is the firstborn from the dead.
He is the resurrection and the life.His old perishable body was more than marked but shredded and holed.
We will have new bodies just as he must have now.Nick……..Rememebr the seed does not change it's DNA even thought it is a rebirth. You must be born “AGAIN” both of Water and Spirit. This implies that we were already born of Water and Spirit a first time, becasue of the uses of the word “AGAIN”.
peace and love……………………………………..gene
Hi GB,
You are incorrect because you are inaccurate.Read Jn3
V 3 just says“Unless one are born AGAIN he cannot see the kingdom of God”
Verse 5 says
” unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter the Kingdom of God”Neither says what you say they do.
You must be born “AGAIN” both of Water and Spirit. “
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,04:32) Hi Toby,
All those who share the spirit of Christ in their mortal bodies are like Jesus.
When they die they lose their own spirit but are alive to God-just like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob [lk 20 37f].
The only difference is that Jesus Christ is the firstborn from the dead.
He is the resurrection and the life.His old perishable body was more than marked but shredded and holed.
We will have new bodies just as he must have now.
Nick,John 20:25
King James Version (KJV)25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
The word is print and from what I understand it is a synonym of mark.
John 20:25
New International Version (NIV)
25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
I myself thought it stated more but it seems those thoughts came from man and not from God.
Nick……I do notice the word “Again” has been changed it should read “FROM ABOVE” and that does make a difference , so i stand corrected brother. But i do have another question, why does it say with WATER (AND) Spirit? is that implying beings Baptized ? Meaning Holy Spirit baptism. Notice Jesus first says you must be born “again” (from above) and said in order to “SEE” the Kingdom of GOD , in the next sentence says Most assuredly I say to you unless one is born of “WATER” and SPIRIT he can not (ENTER) the Kingdom of GOD. Could this mean a person is indeed born Spiritually from above to (SEE) in his minds eye the kingdom of God, but in order for him to “ENTER” it, he must be Born of “WATER” and SPIRIT” ?
My question would be why WATER AND SPIRIT? Could it be that seeing the Kingdom of God and entering into it is quite different while one (seeing) only requires the Spirit, the other (enter) requires both WATER and SPIRIT?
Peace and Love to you and yours………………………………….gene
PS….> Nick I have another none biblical question for you something i have wondered about for some time , what kind of vineyard do you have is it wine grapes or raisins or table grapes.
Hi GB,
5 ac gewurztraminer.SEEING is understanding-without the Spirit the mind cannot do so[1Cor2]
ENTERING is by repentance, washing and filling of the cleansed vessel.
So repentance follows awareness of our hopeless sinful state-it too is according to God's call and grace.
Faith in the message leads to obedience and the Spirit infilling then enables us to see why it was all even necessary in the first place.God's ways are not ours.
We must be clothed in Christ by baptism
Many will be found naked at the wedding feast and shown the door.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,07:26) Hi KW
Jn 20.27
Reach here with your hand and put it INTO my side..
Nick,That could be a case of translator bias since the Greek word can also be translated “upon” as it is in Matthew 27:30, Matthew 26:10, and other places.
Either one is correct though one at most is true.
My source of information is concordances.org
Thank you as that explains where I obtained my previous understanding.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2012,08:03) Hi KW,
The NIV adds quite a lot.
dangerous stuff.
Hi Nick,Agreed!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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