The soul

[kenrch]

Hi, David
I know you have an answer for this scriptures.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus

[kenrch]

You are saying that the body and soul are the same, right?

If so then how can you kill the body and not the soul.

Again Paul speaks of “destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be asved..”

[kenrch]

Too much light!!

[kenrch]

destruction of the flesh, that the spirit might be saved

[kenrch]

Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 26 2005,03:35)

destruction of the flesh, that the spirit might be saved

I have a JWs FRIEND at work we enjoy talking about what we agree on. When I gave him 1Cor 5:5 he said that he'd have to serch that one. There's not a doubt in my mind that he spoke to an elder. Do you want to know his and/or the elder's answer?

[kenrch]

First Christmas in the bible?

[kenrch]

Ah! come on guys, I wanta play too!  Well please let me know if I need to be in a click or something.  If not just tell me to get lost, and I will!!!

[kenrch]

You can't know it all! May be I shouldn't have shined so much light. But Jesus said not to hide your light. If I'm wrong please tell me.

[NickHassan]

Hi david,
Ez18.4f
” Behold all souls are mine;the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine. The soul who sins will die… if he walks in my statutes and My ordinances so as to deal faithfully-he is righteous and shall sureley live”

So in context in the OT the meaning of these verses is not simply life and death of the body. If so then the righteous would never physically die, which is nonsense for those times. So life and death here is spoken of as the second death and not the first. The righteous under the Old Covenant can inherit the kingdom[ just as the faithful son, the brother of the prodigal son does], but under the OT sinners do not 'live”and they inherit the second death.

[NickHassan]

Hi david,
Ps 146.3
” Do not trust in princes, in mortal man in whom there is no salvation.
His spirit departs[spirit]
He returns to the earth[body]
in that very day his thoughts perish”[soul sleep]

It seems clear to me.

[NickHassan]

Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 26 2005,03:24)

Hi, David I know you have an answer for this scriptures. Mat 10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 1Co 5:5  To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus

Hi kenrch,
Absolutely right on 1Cor 5.5

I have seen Matt 10.28 translating 'soul' as 'life' but those who do still face the same problem that after the destruction of the body there is still a form of life that exists that can be destroyed in the second death after the second resurrection. They will often say it is “the future potential life” to try and wriggle out of the problem.

[NickHassan]

Hi ,
Scripture even shows the inner man can “converse” with the outer man and that to physically die is for God to require your soul.
Lk 12.17f
“And he began reasoning to himself…And I will say to my soul
'Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years to come;take your ease, eat, drink and be merry'
But God said to him
'You fool! This very night your soul is required of you'”

[NickHassan]

Quote (david @ Oct. 25 2005,06:57)

What was the first lie ever told? Hey Nick.  Since you seem genuinly interested in what I believe, even though you've probably heard it all before, I'll share. 'You will positively not die,' said the Devil.  He was lying.  People do die.  The immortal soul is one of his lies. In the Bible, “soul” is translated from the Hebrew néphesh and the Greek psykhé. Bible usage shows the soul to be a PERSON or an ANIMAL or THE LIFE THAT A PERSON OR AN ANIMAL ENJOYS. WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT HELPS US TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE SOUL IS? Gen. 2:7: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” (Notice that this does not say that man was given a soul but that he became a soul, a living person.) (The part of the Hebrew word here rendered “soul” is néphesh. KJ, AS, and Dy agree with that rendering. RS, JB, NAB read “being.” NE says “creature.” Kx reads “person.”) 1 Cor. 15:45: “It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (So the Christian Greek Scriptures agree with the Hebrew Scriptures as to what the soul is.) (The Greek word here translated “soul” is the accusative case of psykhé. KJ, AS, Dy, JB, NAB, and Kx also read “soul.” RS, NE, and TEV say “being.”) 1 Pet. 3:20: “In Noah’s days . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.” (The Greek word here translated “souls” is psykhaí, the plural form of psykhé. KJ, AS, Dy, and Kx also read “souls.” JB and TEV say “people”; RS, NE, and NAB use “persons.”) Gen. 9:5: “Besides that, your blood of your souls [or, “lives”; Hebrew, from néphesh] shall I ask back.” (Here the soul is said to have blood.) Josh. 11:11: “They went striking every soul [Hebrew, néphesh] that was in it with the edge of the sword.” (The soul is here shown to be something that can be touched by the sword, so these souls could not have been spirits.) WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT ANIMALS ARE SOULS? Gen. 1:20, 21, 24, 25: “God went on to say: ‘Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls* . . . ’ And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. . . . And God went on to say: ‘Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds . . . ’ And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind.” (*In Hebrew the word here is néphesh. Ro reads “soul.” Some translations use the rendering “creature.”) Lev. 24:17, 18: “In case a man strikes any soul [Hebrew, néphesh] of mankind fatally, he should be put to death without fail. And the fatal striker of the soul [Hebrew, néphesh] of a domestic animal should make compensation for it, soul for soul.” (Notice that the same Hebrew word for soul is applied to both mankind and animals.) Rev. 16:3: “It became blood as of a dead man, and every living soul* died, yes, the things in the sea.” (Thus the Christian Greek Scriptures also show animals to be souls.) (*In Greek the word here is psykhé. KJ, AS, and Dy render it “soul.” Some translators use the term “creature” or “thing.”)                             SOME ENCYCLOPEDIAS A CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA “There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [néphesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person. . . . The term [psykhé] is the N[ew] T[estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450. ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA “The Hebrew term for ‘soul’ (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an ‘animated being’ and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psyche (‘soul’) was comparable to nefesh.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152. JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA “The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.”—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564.                        CAN THE HUMAN SOUL DIE? Ezek. 18:4: “Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.” (*Hebrew reads “the néphesh.” KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy render it “the soul.” Some translations say “the man” or “the person.”) Matt. 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul [or, “life”]; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul* and body in Gehenna.” (*Greek has the accusative case of psykhé. KJ, AS, RS, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, and NAB all render it “soul.”) Acts 3:23: “Indeed, any soul [Greek, psykhé] that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.” IS THE SOUL THE SAME AS THE SPIRIT? Eccl. 12:7: “Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit [or, life-force; Hebrew, rúach] itself returns to the true God who gave it.” (Notice that the Hebrew word for spirit is rúach; but the word translated soul is néphesh. The text does not mean that at death the spirit travels all the way to the personal presence of God; rather, any prospect for the person to live again rests with God. In similar usage, we may say that, if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property, the property “returns” to its owner.) (KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy all here render rúach as “spirit.” NAB reads “life breath.”) Eccl. 3:19: “There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit [Hebrew, rúach].” (Thus both mankind and beasts are shown to have the same rúach, or spirit.) Heb. 4:12: “The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul [Greek, psykheś; “life,” NE] and spirit [Greek, pneúmatos], and of joints and their marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” (Observe that the Greek word for “spirit” is not the same as the word for “soul.”) DOES CONSCIOUS LIFE CONTINUE FOR A PERSON AFTER THE SPIRIT LEAVES THE BODY? Ps. 146:4: “His spirit [Hebrew, from rúach] goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (NAB, Ro, Yg, and Dy [145:4] here render rúach as “spirit.” Some translations say “breath.”) (Also Psalm 104:29) WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF CHRISTENDOM'S BELIEF IN AN IMMATE RIAL, IMMORTAL SOUL? “The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy. Only with Origen [died c. 254 C.E.] in the East and St. Augustine [died 430 C.E.] in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . His [Augustine’s] doctrine . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 452, 454. “The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”—Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557. “Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”—Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35. “Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? . . . Is it not the separation of soul and body? And to be dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists in herself, and is released from the body and the body is released from the soul, what is this but death? . . . And does the soul admit of death? No. Then the soul is immortal? Yes.”—Plato’s “Phaedo,” Secs. 64, 105, as published in Great Books of the Western World (1952), edited by R. M. Hutchins, Vol. 7, pp. 223, 245, 246. “The problem of immortality, we have seen, engaged the serious attention of the Babylonian theologians. . . . Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., p. 556. Much like the trinity, which was taken from pagan religions, the idea of the immortal soul was taken from Greek philosophy and goes back much further than that.  This lie goes all the way back to Satan's comforting words: 'You will not die.'  The immortal soul belief was part of the apostasy fortold by Jesus and Bible writers. david

Hi david,
I was unaware these were your beliefs but thanks for sharing.

Eccles 3.18
“I said to myself concerning the sons of men.
'God has surely tested them to see that they are but beasts.'
For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust. Who knows that the breath of man ascends upward and the breath of descends downwards to the earth?”

OK . Man is from dust[outer man] Animals are from dust. thus they are similar in body origin and nature.

The breath of God animated man and made him a living soul[inner man]. The breath of God animated animals.The source of their life is identical.

A hint is made of a difference but it is not stated.

But Ecclesiates is an interesting book. It always looks from the earthly perspective and not the heavenly. It makes no statement about Man and his relationship to God. It has an amazingly human, almost philosophical viewpoint. It too is truth but is focussed on man's perspective.

It makes no statement about the nature of the soul. It does not speak of the transformation of the inner man to the likeness of the son of God , or the resurrection for some into a body also similar to that of the man from heaven.

[NickHassan]

Hi david and kenrch,
Acts 17.25f
“…since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth..”

So Adam was given life from the breath of God and all men since derive life through Adam?

[NickHassan]

Quote (david @ Oct. 25 2005,07:34)

Oh, then what is the question? Bible usage shows the soul to be a PERSON or an ANIMAL or THE LIFE THAT A PERSON OR AN ANIMAL ENJOYS.   Do you agree at all? The scritpures you asked about: 2 CORINTHIANS 4:16 “Therefore we do not give up, but even if the man we are outside is wasting away, certainly the man we are inside is being renewed from day to day.” Compare: ROMANS 7:22 “I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within,” COLOSSIANS 3:10 “and clothe yourselves with the new [personality], which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it,” ***** 2 CORINTHIANS 5:1-8 “For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God, a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens. For in this dwelling house we do indeed groan, earnestly desiring to put on the one for us from heaven, so that, having really put it on, we shall not be found naked. In fact, we who are in this tent groan, being weighed down; because we want, not to put it off, but to put on the other, that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now he that produced us for this very thing is God, who gave us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit. We are therefore always of good courage and know that, while we have our home in the body, we are absent from the Lord, for we are walking by faith, not by sight. But we are of good courage and are well pleased rather to become absent from the body and to make our home with the Lord.” Some scriptures to consider: 1 CORINTHIANS 15:50 “However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.” PHILIPPIANS 3:21 “who will refashion our humiliated body to be conformed to his glorious body according to the operation of the power that he has, even to subject all things to himself.” ROMANS 6:4 “Therefore we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that, just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, we also should likewise walk in a newness of life.” 1 CORINTHIANS 15:48 “As the one made of dust [is], so those made of dust [are] also; and as the heavenly one [is], so those who are heavenly [are] also. 1 CORINTHIANS 15:43 “It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power.” 1 CORINTHIANS 15:53 “For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality.” 1 PETER 1:4 “to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is reserved in the heavens for YOU,” JOHN 14:3 “Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for YOU, I am coming again and will receive YOU home to myself, that where I am YOU also may be.”

Hi david,
Rom 7.21f fully expresses the conflict between the body and soul nature of renewed man. Christ is born into us renewing our hearts and minds but just as Moses and Joshua had to fight for the territory God had given them likewise we have to battle with the law of sin in our body.
” I find the principle that evil is in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body[outer man] waging war against the law of my mind[inner man] and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members[outer man] Wretched man that I am[inner man] Who will set me free from the body[outer man] of this death. Thanks be toGod, through Jesus Christ our Lord! for then on the one hand I myself [inner man] with my mind am serving the Law of God, but on the other, with my flesh[outer man] the law of sin”
1Cor 15.20f is all about the replacement of the old body similar to Adam's by the imperishable one similar to the man from heaven, Jesus Christ, at the first resurrection or rapture.

[david]

Kenrch, you asked about two scriptures. Here's the first. And no, I'm not ingoring you. There is no click. I'm just not on here all the time, and prefer to have one conversation at a time, to discuss one scripture at a time. So, here is one:

MATTHEW 10:28
“And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Geheńna.”

This scripture must agree with the other hundreds of scriptures that make use of the word “soul.” All scripture is true. If a hundred scriptures give as one meaning of soul: ‘the person or animal’ and another hundred scriptures say that that person or animal (soul) can be can be ‘killed,’ ‘destoyed,’ ‘die,’ etc, then it is so. And if another hundred scriptures give another meaning of soul, namely, ‘the life that the person or animal has,’ then that cannot really be disputed either.
So how does this one scripture compare to those other very clear scriptures that cannot be nullified? It compares perfectly, as it should. It doesn’t go against or conflict with any of them.

First, what is the ‘fiery Gehenna’ to which Jesus referred?

Reference to Gehenna appears 12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Five times it is directly associated with fire. Translators have rendered the Greek expression géennan tou pyroś as “hell fire” (KJ, Dy), “fires of hell” (NE), “fiery pit” (AT), and “fires of Gehenna” (NAB).

Historical background: The Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) was outside the walls of Jerusalem. For a time it was the site of idolatrous worship, including child sacrifice. In the first century Gehenna was being used as the incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consumed in the fires, to which sulfur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown into Gehenna. Thus, at Matthew 5:29, 30, Jesus spoke of the casting of one’s “whole body” into Gehenna. If the body fell into the constantly burning fire it was consumed, but if it landed on a ledge of the deep ravine its putrefying flesh became infested with the ever-present worms, or maggots. (Mark 9:47, 48) Living humans were not pitched into Gehenna; so it was not a place of conscious torment.

At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to “be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ‘fear him that can DESTROY in Gehenna.’ By referring to the “soul” separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the ‘fiery Gehenna’ have the same meaning as ‘the lake of fire’ of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, “second death.”

NICK, considering the “soul” mentioned in that verse to mean a person’s life prospects is not really “wiggling out of the problem,” as you say in a previous post. “The problem” as I see it, is we have a truckload of scriptures that say one thing about the soul and this scripture which people want to take to mean something else. The problem is what do you do with all those other scriptures? How do you refashion each of them to fit in with your understanding of Matthew 10:28? That is indeed a problem.

I say this again: Since numerous times, the word “soul” is used to mean the life of a person (Some examples: Ge 35:18; Ex 4:19; 21:23; 30:12; Jos 9:24; Jg 9:17; 12:3; 18:25; 2Ki 7:7; 2Ch 1:11; Job 2:4; 6:11; Pr 1:18; 7:23; 22:23; 25:13:Mt 6:25; 10:39; 16:25; Lu 12:20; Joh 10:15; 13:38; 15:13; Ac 20:10; Ro 16:4; Php 2:30; 1Th 2:8; Jas 1:21; 1Pe 1:22,25; 1Jo 3:16), then why is it such a leap for you to understand this verse to mean the future life of a person? It’s true, this is the only place in the Bible that it is used in exactly that way, but it is so frequently used to mean the life of a person that it should not be a hard thing to understand it to mean the life prospects of a person.
Such a view is the only one that has ‘no problems.’ Such a view is the only one that doesn’t contradict many many other scriptures. Such a view is the only one that fits the rest of the Bible.

After saying the words in Mat 10:28, Jesus next encourages his disciples with an illustration that highlights Jehovah’s loving care for them. “Do not two sparrows sell for a coin of small value?” he asks. “Yet not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s knowledge. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Therefore have no fear: you are worth more than many sparrows.”
I think this very nicely highlights where our hope should be placed. Not in the “immortal soul” teaching, or any teaching that contradicts the rest of the Bible. Where is the safest place in the universe, dead or alive? It's Jehovah’s memory. He knows the stars by name. The hairs on your head are numbered. As the creator of the universe we should put our trust in him to bring us back to life, to resurrect us, rather than trusting Greek philosophy or Babylonish teachings.

David.

[david]

Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 26 2005,03:24)
Hi, David
I know you have an answer for this scriptures.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus

Hi kenrch,
Absolutely right on 1Cor 5.5

Absolutely right on what Nick? Any scripture can be put down and the statement can be made: Absolutely right, because all scripture is absolutely right. There are no “wrong” scriptures. So I can only presume that when Nick said: Abolutely right on 1Cor5:5, that he was referring to Kenrch's remark to me about that scripture, saying: “I know you have an answer for this scripture.” And indeed, that is absolutely right, and Nick is absolutely right in saying Kenrch was absolutely right.
OK, I have to go to work now. This post is mostly to lighten the mood a little. Not to be taken too seriously. I have to work now.
Hey, guess what I was doing yesterday? I and my wife were walking down a road with a Bible in my hand and a few kids started yelling out: “Hey, are you Jehovah's Witnesses? Are you Jehovah's? Are you Jehovah Witnesses?”
I wonder how they knew? (Mat 24:14)

[NickHassan]

Hi david,
The whole of the OT perspective in fact is from outer man. The psalms in particular speak of the soul and aspects of the soul such as “heart” and “mind” very frequently. But it speaks of it being “within me”. A search on these words in the OT will show very frequent use of this term, but the term itself shows that the “me” spoken of is the body;
2 Kings 4.27
“for her soul is troubled within her”
Jb 30.16
'now my soul is poured out within me”
Ps 42.4f
” and I pour out my soul within me……God, my soul is in despair within me”
Ps 55.4
” My heart is in anguish within me”
Is 15.4
” His soul trembles within him”

But also “spirit” is used in a similar way interchangeably;
Ps 143.3f
” my spirit is overwhelmed within me;my heart is appalled within me”
Dan7.15
” my spirit was distressed within me”etc

Jesus Christ is the light of the world. But he came to shine that light within man. He knew men's hearts and revealed their inner man to them. He came to clean the inside of the cup and show men that their efforts to change only the externals was not enough. Now the perspective changes in those who are saved to the view from the Spirit of God within man.

Now man is shown to have two characters but salvation is of the inner man. God condemned man as flesh due to sin but brought salvation from Christ within, and promised new flesh to those who obey him.

Even in the NT there are times when soul and spirit are used seemingly interchangeably such as 1 Cor 5.5. But there is “soul” and “spirit” as shown in 1Thess and Heb 4 . However only now, through the work of the discernment by the Spirit of Christ can that separation be more deeply revealed.

” For the word of God is alive and active and sharper than any two edged sword and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart”

[NickHassan]

Quote (david @ Oct. 26 2005,18:24)

Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 26 2005,03:24) Hi, David I know you have an answer for this scriptures. Mat 10:28  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 1Co 5:5  To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Hi kenrch, Absolutely right on 1Cor 5.5 Absolutely right on what Nick?  Any scripture can be put down and the statement can be made: Absolutely right, because all scripture is absolutely right.  There are no “wrong” scriptures.  So I can only presume that when Nick said: Abolutely right on 1Cor5:5, that he was referring to Kenrch's remark to me about that scripture, saying: “I know you have an answer for this scripture.”  And indeed, that is absolutely right, and Nick is absolutely right in saying Kenrch was absolutely right. OK, I have to go to work now.  This post is mostly to lighten the mood a little.  Not to be taken too seriously.  I have to work now. Hey, guess what I was doing yesterday?  I and my wife were walking down a road with a Bible in my hand and a few kids started yelling out: “Hey, are you Jehovah's Witnesses?  Are you Jehovah's?  Are you Jehovah Witnesses?” I wonder how they knew?  (Mat 24:14)

Hi david,
How do you think they knew? Could it have been the your tidy and formal attire and your serious visage and the fact that you carry similar looking bibles? I know this is not the answer you may want but it may be the truth.

The man saved in 1Cor 5.5 is the inner man and not the condemned outer flesh.

The second death or lake of fire seems to do the job of destruction slowly if the beast and the false prophet are still there after the 1000 yr reign. Do you agree?

[david]

They were 8 or 10 year olds Nick. Yes, they could recognize us by our appearance and serious visage and the fact that we have Bibles. That is true. Or part of it.
But my point was this: Why didn't they ask if we were Catholics? Or Protestants, or Nick Hassen, etc?
Because there is really only one group that goes to people everywhere with the good news of the kingdom.
It was obvious to 8 or 10 year olds, who were on the other side of the street.

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