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Hi,
There are some who say that man does not have a soul. They say man is body and spirit only thus denying 1Thess 5.23. They also say that the existence of Jesus Christ began at his conception only.If this is your position do you accept that Jesus is now in heaven-that he ascended to heaven?
The claim that Jesus ascended to heaven is only as strong as the one that he descended from heaven. He said he descended and would ascend. Why would you only accept his word on one of these matters? Is it because men only witnessed his ascension?
What was the first lie ever told?
Hey Nick. Since you seem genuinly interested in what I believe, even though you've probably heard it all before, I'll share.
'You will positively not die,' said the Devil. He was lying. People do die. The immortal soul is one of his lies.
In the Bible, “soul” is translated from the Hebrew néphesh and the Greek psykhé. Bible usage shows the soul to be a PERSON or an ANIMAL or THE LIFE THAT A PERSON OR AN ANIMAL ENJOYS.
WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT HELPS US TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE SOUL IS?
Gen. 2:7: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.”
(Notice that this does not say that man was given a soul but that he became a soul, a living person.)
(The part of the Hebrew word here rendered “soul” is néphesh. KJ, AS, and Dy agree with that rendering. RS, JB, NAB read “being.” NE says “creature.” Kx reads “person.”)1 Cor. 15:45: “It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.”
(So the Christian Greek Scriptures agree with the Hebrew Scriptures as to what the soul is.)
(The Greek word here translated “soul” is the accusative case of psykhé. KJ, AS, Dy, JB, NAB, and Kx also read “soul.” RS, NE, and TEV say “being.”)1 Pet. 3:20: “In Noah’s days . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.”
(The Greek word here translated “souls” is psykhaí, the plural form of psykhé. KJ, AS, Dy, and Kx also read “souls.” JB and TEV say “people”; RS, NE, and NAB use “persons.”)Gen. 9:5: “Besides that, your blood of your souls [or, “lives”; Hebrew, from néphesh] shall I ask back.”
(Here the soul is said to have blood.)Josh. 11:11: “They went striking every soul [Hebrew, néphesh] that was in it with the edge of the sword.” (The soul is here shown to be something that can be touched by the sword, so these souls could not have been spirits.)
WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT ANIMALS ARE SOULS?
Gen. 1:20, 21, 24, 25: “God went on to say: ‘Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls* . . . ’ And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. . . . And God went on to say: ‘Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds . . . ’ And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind.”
(*In Hebrew the word here is néphesh. Ro reads “soul.” Some translations use the rendering “creature.”)Lev. 24:17, 18: “In case a man strikes any soul [Hebrew, néphesh] of mankind fatally, he should be put to death without fail. And the fatal striker of the soul [Hebrew, néphesh] of a domestic animal should make compensation for it, soul for soul.” (Notice that the same Hebrew word for soul is applied to both mankind and animals.)
Rev. 16:3: “It became blood as of a dead man, and every living soul* died, yes, the things in the sea.”
(Thus the Christian Greek Scriptures also show animals to be souls.)
(*In Greek the word here is psykhé. KJ, AS, and Dy render it “soul.” Some translators use the term “creature” or “thing.”)SOME ENCYCLOPEDIAS
A CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA
“There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [néphesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person. . . . The term [psykhé] is the N[ew] T[estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450.ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA
“The Hebrew term for ‘soul’ (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an ‘animated being’ and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psyche (‘soul’) was comparable to nefesh.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152.JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA
“The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.”—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564.CAN THE HUMAN SOUL DIE?
Ezek. 18:4: “Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.”
(*Hebrew reads “the néphesh.” KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy render it “the soul.” Some translations say “the man” or “the person.”)Matt. 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul [or, “life”]; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul* and body in Gehenna.”
(*Greek has the accusative case of psykhé. KJ, AS, RS, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, and NAB all render it “soul.”)Acts 3:23: “Indeed, any soul [Greek, psykhé] that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.”
IS THE SOUL THE SAME AS THE SPIRIT?
Eccl. 12:7: “Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit [or, life-force; Hebrew, rúach] itself returns to the true God who gave it.”
(Notice that the Hebrew word for spirit is rúach; but the word translated soul is néphesh. The text does not mean that at death the spirit travels all the way to the personal presence of God; rather, any prospect for the person to live again rests with God. In similar usage, we may say that, if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property, the property “returns” to its owner.)
(KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy all here render rúach as “spirit.” NAB reads “life breath.”)Eccl. 3:19: “There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit [Hebrew, rúach].”
(Thus both mankind and beasts are shown to have the same rúach, or spirit.)Heb. 4:12: “The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul [Greek, psykheś; “life,” NE] and spirit [Greek, pneúmatos], and of joints and their marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.”
(Observe that the Greek word for “spirit” is not the same as the word for “soul.”)DOES CONSCIOUS LIFE CONTINUE FOR A PERSON AFTER THE SPIRIT LEAVES THE BODY?
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit [Hebrew, from rúach] goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.”
(NAB, Ro, Yg, and Dy [145:4] here render rúach as “spirit.” Some translations say “breath.”) (Also Psalm 104:29)WHAT IS THE ORIGIN OF CHRISTENDOM'S BELIEF IN AN IMMATERIAL, IMMORTAL SOUL?
“The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy. Only with Origen [died c. 254 C
.E.] in the East and St. Augustine [died 430 C.E.] in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . His [Augustine’s] doctrine . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 452, 454.“The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”—Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557.
“Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”—Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35.
“Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? . . . Is it not the separation of soul and body? And to be dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists in herself, and is released from the body and the body is released from the soul, what is this but death? . . . And does the soul admit of death? No. Then the soul is immortal? Yes.”—Plato’s “Phaedo,” Secs. 64, 105, as published in Great Books of the Western World (1952), edited by R. M. Hutchins, Vol. 7, pp. 223, 245, 246.
“The problem of immortality, we have seen, engaged the serious attention of the Babylonian theologians. . . . Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., p. 556.
Much like the trinity, which was taken from pagan religions, the idea of the immortal soul was taken from Greek philosophy and goes back much further than that. This lie goes all the way back to Satan's comforting words: 'You will not die.' The immortal soul belief was part of the apostasy fortold by Jesus and Bible writers.
david
Hi david,
Who said immortal soul?
Matt 10 28
” Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell”The second death in geena is indeed to be feared.
What do you make of 2 Cor 4 16 and 5 1-8 where Paul speaks of putting off the earthly tent, the body?
Oh, then what is the question?
Bible usage shows the soul to be a PERSON or an ANIMAL or THE LIFE THAT A PERSON OR AN ANIMAL ENJOYS. Do you agree at all?The scritpures you asked about:
2 CORINTHIANS 4:16
“Therefore we do not give up, but even if the man we are outside is wasting away, certainly the man we are inside is being renewed from day to day.”Compare:
ROMANS 7:22
“I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within,”
COLOSSIANS 3:10
“and clothe yourselves with the new [personality], which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it,”*****
2 CORINTHIANS 5:1-8
“For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God, a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens. For in this dwelling house we do indeed groan, earnestly desiring to put on the one for us from heaven, so that, having really put it on, we shall not be found naked. In fact, we who are in this tent groan, being weighed down; because we want, not to put it off, but to put on the other, that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now he that produced us for this very thing is God, who gave us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit. We are therefore always of good courage and know that, while we have our home in the body, we are absent from the Lord, for we are walking by faith, not by sight. But we are of good courage and are well pleased rather to become absent from the body and to make our home with the Lord.”Some scriptures to consider:
1 CORINTHIANS 15:50
“However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.”
PHILIPPIANS 3:21
“who will refashion our humiliated body to be conformed to his glorious body according to the operation of the power that he has, even to subject all things to himself.”
ROMANS 6:4
“Therefore we were buried with him through our baptism into his death, in order that, just as Christ was raised up from the dead through the glory of the Father, we also should likewise walk in a newness of life.”
1 CORINTHIANS 15:48
“As the one made of dust [is], so those made of dust [are] also; and as the heavenly one [is], so those who are heavenly [are] also.
1 CORINTHIANS 15:43
“It is sown in dishonor, it is raised up in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised up in power.”
1 CORINTHIANS 15:53
“For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality.”
1 PETER 1:4
“to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is reserved in the heavens for YOU,”
JOHN 14:3
“Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for YOU, I am coming again and will receive YOU home to myself, that where I am YOU also may be.”The soul, is it separate? Is that the question? Meaning separate from the body?
The confusion lies in the fact that in the Bible, “soul” can be a person or an animal OR the life that a person or an animal enjoys. That word can be either.
The first reference to soul, for instance, talks of Adam 'becoming a living soul.' Here, it's the person himself. He wasn't given a soul. He WAS a soul.
However, in some places, soul refers to the life of a person, not the person or animal himself. So certainly when a person (soul) dies, his life (soul) can be said to be separated from him at death. His soul or life is taken.It's mixing up or not understanding these two meanings that has caused great trouble in the minds of many.
Since the term ne´phesh refers to the creature itself, we should expect to find the normal physical functions or characteristics of fleshly creatures attributed to it. This is exactly the case.
Ne´phesh (soul) is spoken of as eating flesh, fat, blood, or similar material things (Le 7:18, 20, 25, 27; 17:10, 12, 15; De 23:24);
being hungry for or craving food and drink (De 12:15, 20, 21; Ps 107:9; Pr 19:15; 27:7; Isa 29:8; 32:6; Mic 7:1);
being made fat (Pr 11:25);
fasting (Ps 35:13);
touching unclean things, such as a dead body (Le 5:2; 7:21; 17:15; 22:6; Nu 19:13);
being ‘seized as a pledge’ or being ‘kidnapped’ (De 24:6, 7);
doing work (Le 23:30);
being refreshed by cold water when tired (Pr 25:25);
being purchased (Le 22:11; Eze 27:13);
being given as a vow offering (Le 27:2);
being put in irons (Ps 105:18);
being sleepless (Ps 119:28);
and struggling for breath (Jer 15:9).Examples of the use of the Greek psy·khe´ to mean “life as a creature” may be found at Matthew 6:25; 10:39; 16:25, 26; Luke 12:20; John 10:11, 15; 13:37, 38; 15:13; Acts 20:10. Since God’s servants have the hope of a resurrection in the event of death, they have the hope of living again as “souls,” or living creatures. For that reason Jesus could say that “whoever loses his soul [his life as a creature] for the sake of me and the good news will save it. Really, of what benefit is it for a man to gain the whole world and to forfeit his soul? What, really, would a man give in exchange for his soul?” (Mr 8:35-37) Similarly, he stated: “He that is fond of his soul destroys it, but he that hates his soul in this world will safeguard it for everlasting life.” (Joh 12:25) These texts, and others like them, show the correct understanding of Jesus’ words at Matthew 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.” While men can kill the body, they cannot kill the person for all time, inasmuch as he lives in God’s purpose (compare Lu 20:37, 38) and God can and will restore such faithful one to life as a creature by means of a resurrection. For God’s servants, the loss of their “soul,” or life as a creature, is only temporary, not permanent.—Compare Re 12:11.
Mortal and destructible.
Matthew 10:28 states that God “can destroy both soul [psy·khen´] and body in Gehenna.” This shows that psy·khe´ does not refer to something immortal or indestructible. There is, in fact, not one case in the entire Scriptures, Hebrew and Greek, in which the words ne´phesh or psy·khe´ are modified by terms such as immortal, indestructible, imperishable, deathless, or the like.
On the other hand, there are scores of texts in the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures that speak of the ne´phesh or psy·khe´ (soul) as mortal and subject to death (Ge 19:19, 20; Nu 23:10; Jos 2:13, 14; Jg 5:18; 16:16, 30; 1Ki 20:31, 32; Ps 22:29; Eze 18:4, 20; Mt 2:20; 26:38; Mr 3:4; Heb 10:39; Jas 5:20);
as dying, being “cut off” or destroyed (Ge 17:14; Ex 12:15; Le 7:20; 23:29; Jos 10:28-39; Ps 78:50; Eze 13:19; 22:27; Ac 3:23; Re 8:9; 16:3),
whether by sword (Jos 10:37; Eze 33:6)
or by suffocation (Job 7:15),
or being in danger of death due to drowning (Jon 2:5);
and also as going down into the pit or into Sheol (Job 33:22; Ps 89:48)
or being delivered therefrom (Ps 16:10; 30:3; 49:15; Pr 23:14).The expression ‘deceased or dead soul’ also appears a number of times, meaning simply “a dead person.”—Le 19:28; 21:1, 11; 22:4; Nu 5:2; 6:6; Hag 2:13; compare Nu 19:11, 13.
Bible usage shows the soul to be a PERSON or an ANIMAL or THE LIFE THAT A PERSON OR AN ANIMAL ENJOYS.
However, as a side point, at times the word ne´phesh is used to express the desire of the individual, one that fills him and then occupies him in achieving its goal. Proverbs 13:2, for example, says of those dealing treacherously that ‘their very soul is violence,’ that is, that they are ‘all out’ for violence, in effect, become violence personified. (Compare Ge 34:3, ftn; Ps 27:12; 35:25; 41:2.) Israel’s false shepherds are called “dogs strong in soul[ful desire],” who have known no satisfaction.—Isa 56:11, 12; compare Pr 23:1-3; Hab 2:5.Hi david,
Expound to us then if you would the teaching parable given by Jesus Christ of the rich man in Hades and Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham in Lk 16.19f.Hi david,
Are you saying that soul is equivalent to spirit?You agree that the body is just a tent so our life is within that body and not of that body . You also agree that after physical death there is a form of life that remains with making our bed in Sheol [Ps 139. Ez 32 Psalms etc]or Hades, perhaps Paradise, becoming the temporary home for that life. Scripture is full of references to Sheol as a place of sleep after death where men are held. They are shown in Lk 16.This life cannot then be the spirit which Eccles 12 tells us goes back to God. It applies to all so cannot be the Holy Spirit. So what is this life that is not of the spirit or of the body that exists after death?
Jesus said Abraham was alive and not dead also expressing this truth.Mt 22.29f
” But Jesus answered and said to them
'You are mistaken , not understanding the scriptures or the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God;
'I am the God of Abraham , and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?''
He is not the God of the dead but of the living'”Lazarus of Bethany was sleeping. Abraham is ever alive.
Hi david,
So is the body our only nature? Genesis tells us man was formed from the dust of the ground so it is a perfectly reasonable assertion that man is dust. God told him he was dust and unto dust he would return.
What of the breath of God that made man a living being? Is that another real view of man? It would appear so. Does God also relate to men as souls, living beings enlivened by spirit? Yes I think many of your scriptures show that and that is how God usually relates to us.Paul spoke of an inner man and an outer man. Outer as tent with us living inside that tent. We can live acciording to the insatiable demands of our flesh or according to the Spirit transformed inner man who grows into Christ. We live in a body just as the Son of God partook of flesh to be like us.
“Soul”–A Living Creature, Human or Animal; Life as an Intelligent Person; Other Uses
Hebrew nephesh
Greek psykheHebrew word nephesh occurs 754 times, first in Genesis 1:20. (Notice how it is used here.)
Greek word pyckhe occurs by itself 102 times, first in Matthew 2:20. (Notice how it is used here, and contrast to Gen 1:20.)Soul, as the Bible writers used it, namely, that of a person, an individual, or a lower creature; or, the life that a person or an animal enjoys as such, is totally different from what the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Greeks and Romans religiously and philosophically called a soul.
ANIMALS ARE SOULS
Ge 1:20,21,24; 2:19; 9:10,12,15; Le 11:10,46; 24:18; Nu 31:28; Job 41:21; Eze 47:9A LIVING PERSON OR INDIVIDUAL IS A SOUL
Ge 2:7; 12:15; 14:21; 36:6; 46:15,18,22,25,26,27; Ex 1:5; 12:4,16; 16:16; Le 2:1; 4:2,27; 5:1,2,4,15,17; 6:2; 7:18,20,21,25,27; 17:10,12,1518:29; 20:6; 22:6,11; 23:29,30; 27:2; Nu 5:6; 15:27,28,30; 19:18,22; 31:35,40,46; 35:30; De10:22; 24:6,7; 1Sa 22:22; 2Sa 14:14; 2Ki 12:4; 1Ch 5:21; Ps 19:7; Pr 11:25,30; 16:24; 19:2,15; 25:25; 27:7,9; Jer 43:6; 52:29; La 3:25; Eze 27:13; Ac 2:41,43; 7:14; 27:37; Ro 13:1; 1Co 15:45; 1Pe 3:20; 2Pe 2:14THE CREATURE SOUL IS MORTAL, DESTRUCTIBLE
Ge 12:13; 17:14; 19:19,20; 37:21; Ex 12:15,19; 31:14; Le 7:20,21,27; 19:8; 22:3; 23:30; 24:17; Nu 9:13; 15:30,31; 19:13,20; 23:10; 31:19; 35:11,15,30; De 19:6,11; 22:26; 27:25; Jos 2:13,14; 10:28,30,32,35,37,39; 11:11; 20:3,9; Jg 5:18; 16:16,30; 1Ki 19:4; 20:31; Job 7:15; 11:20; 18:4; 33:22; 36:14; Ps 7:2; 22:29; 66:9; 69:1; 78:50; 94:17; 106:15; 124:4; Pr 28:17; Isa 55:3; Jer 2:34; 4:10; 18:20; 38:17; 40:14; Eze 13:19; 17:17; 18:4; 22:25,27; 33:6; Mt 2:20; 10:28; 26:38; Mr 3:4; 14:34; Lu 6:9; 17:33; Joh 12:25; Ac 3:23: Ro 11:3; Heb 10:39; Jas 5:20; Re 8:9; 12:11; 16:3LIFE AS AN INTELLIGENT PERSON
Ge 35:18; Ex 4:19; 21:23; 30:12; Jos 9:24; Jg 9:17; 12:3; 18:25; 2Ki 7:7; 2Ch 1:11; Job 2:4; 6:11; Pr 1:18; 7:23; 22:23; 25:13:Mt 6:25; 10:39; 16:25; Lu 12:20; Joh 10:15; 13:38; 15:13; Ac 20:10; Ro 16:4; Php 2:30; 1Th 2:8; Jas 1:21; 1Pe 1:22,25; 1Jo 3:16SOUL DELIVERD FROM SHEOL OR HADES
Ps 16:10; 30:3; 49:15; 86:13; 89:48; Pr 23:14; Ac 2:27DEAD SOUL, OR CORPSE
Le 19:28; 21:1,11; 22:4; Nu 5:2; 6:6,11; 9:6,7,10; 19:11,13; Hag 4:12SOUL DISTINGUISHED FROM SPIRIT
Php 1:27; 1Th 5:23; Heb 4:12GOD HAS SOUL
1Sa 2:35; Ps 11:5; 24:4; Pr 6:16; Isa 1:14; 42:1; Jer 5:9; 6:8; 12:7; 14:19; 15:1; 32:41; 51:14; La 3:20; Eze 23:18; Am 6:8; Mt 12:18; Heb 10:38HOW DOES JESUS’ PARABLE COMPARE WITH WHAT WE KNOW THE REST OF THE BIBLE TEACHES US ABOUT THE WORD “SOUL”? Is that the question?
I have to be somewhere right now. But I would like to discuss this much more at a later time.
david.
Hi david,
The parable in Lk 16 stands on it's own feet as truth. There is no suggestion in it that anything described is anything but truth. So if it does not fit with our doctrine then surely our doctrines are wrong?Quote (david @ Oct. 25 2005,23:43) “Soul”–A Living Creature, Human or Animal; Life as an Intelligent Person; Other Uses
Hebrew nephesh
Greek psykheHebrew word nephesh occurs 754 times, first in Genesis 1:20. (Notice how it is used here.)
Greek word pyckhe occurs by itself 102 times, first in Matthew 2:20. (Notice how it is used here, and contrast to Gen 1:20.)Soul, as the Bible writers used it, namely, that of a person, an individual, or a lower creature; or, the life that a person or an animal enjoys as such, is totally different from what the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Greeks and Romans religiously and philosophically called a soul.
ANIMALS ARE SOULS
Ge 1:20,21,24; 2:19; 9:10,12,15; Le 11:10,46; 24:18; Nu 31:28; Job 41:21; Eze 47:9A LIVING PERSON OR INDIVIDUAL IS A SOUL
Ge 2:7; 12:15; 14:21; 36:6; 46:15,18,22,25,26,27; Ex 1:5; 12:4,16; 16:16; Le 2:1; 4:2,27; 5:1,2,4,15,17; 6:2; 7:18,20,21,25,27; 17:10,12,1518:29; 20:6; 22:6,11; 23:29,30; 27:2; Nu 5:6; 15:27,28,30; 19:18,22; 31:35,40,46; 35:30; De10:22; 24:6,7; 1Sa 22:22; 2Sa 14:14; 2Ki 12:4; 1Ch 5:21; Ps 19:7; Pr 11:25,30; 16:24; 19:2,15; 25:25; 27:7,9; Jer 43:6; 52:29; La 3:25; Eze 27:13; Ac 2:41,43; 7:14; 27:37; Ro 13:1; 1Co 15:45; 1Pe 3:20; 2Pe 2:14THE CREATURE SOUL IS MORTAL, DESTRUCTIBLE
Ge 12:13; 17:14; 19:19,20; 37:21; Ex 12:15,19; 31:14; Le 7:20,21,27; 19:8; 22:3; 23:30; 24:17; Nu 9:13; 15:30,31; 19:13,20; 23:10; 31:19; 35:11,15,30; De 19:6,11; 22:26; 27:25; Jos 2:13,14; 10:28,30,32,35,37,39; 11:11; 20:3,9; Jg 5:18; 16:16,30; 1Ki 19:4; 20:31; Job 7:15; 11:20; 18:4; 33:22; 36:14; Ps 7:2; 22:29; 66:9; 69:1; 78:50; 94:17; 106:15; 124:4; Pr 28:17; Isa 55:3; Jer 2:34; 4:10; 18:20; 38:17; 40:14; Eze 13:19; 17:17; 18:4; 22:25,27; 33:6; Mt 2:20; 10:28; 26:38; Mr 3:4; 14:34; Lu 6:9; 17:33; Joh 12:25; Ac 3:23: Ro 11:3; Heb 10:39; Jas 5:20; Re 8:9; 12:11; 16:3LIFE AS AN INTELLIGENT PERSON
Ge 35:18; Ex 4:19; 21:23; 30:12; Jos 9:24; Jg 9:17; 12:3; 18:25; 2Ki 7:7; 2Ch 1:11; Job 2:4; 6:11; Pr 1:18; 7:23; 22:23; 25:13:Mt 6:25; 10:39; 16:25; Lu 12:20; Joh 10:15; 13:38; 15:13; Ac 20:10; Ro 16:4; Php 2:30; 1Th 2:8; Jas 1:21; 1Pe 1:22,25; 1Jo 3:16SOUL DELIVERD FROM SHEOL OR HADES
Ps 16:10; 30:3; 49:15; 86:13; 89:48; Pr 23:14; Ac 2:27DEAD SOUL, OR CORPSE
Le 19:28; 21:1,11; 22:4; Nu 5:2; 6:6,11; 9:6,7,10; 19:11,13; Hag 4:12SOUL DISTINGUISHED FROM SPIRIT
Php 1:27; 1Th 5:23; Heb 4:12GOD HAS SOUL
1Sa 2:35; Ps 11:5; 24:4; Pr 6:16; Isa 1:14; 42:1; Jer 5:9; 6:8; 12:7; 14:19; 15:1; 32:41; 51:14; La 3:20; Eze 23:18; Am 6:8; Mt 12:18; Heb 10:38HOW DOES JESUS’ PARABLE COMPARE WITH WHAT WE KNOW THE REST OF THE BIBLE TEACHES US ABOUT THE WORD “SOUL”? Is that the question?
I have to be somewhere right now. But I would like to discuss this much more at a later time.
david.
Hi david,
I agree most of the characteristics we would normally relate to bodily functions seem also to relate to soul functions in scripture.
The rich man in Lk 16 can think, see and feel and yet he is undoubtedly dead. Interesting is it not? Yet God himself also is said to hjave similar abilities and God is spirit.Perhaps it is our worldly and “scientific”, body centred view of man that is incorrect after all?
Hi david,
The more specific soul attributes I would say are Mind and Heart. A body does not have this capacity to feel and sense and understand and relate. These functions can be inflenced by damage to the body but a dead body certainly does not have any of these capacities.
All scripture says about spirit as far as I remember is to give life[Jas 2,26]
Indeed Genesis says that by the breath of God;Man[body]
became a living[spirit]
soul[soul].Makes sense to me.
Besides david,
Who did the witch of Endor speak with when she was approached by Saul to contact Samuel? The being spoke and prophesied as Samuel. How can this be? Can witches resurrect or was it just the soul of Samuel awakened?Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 11 2005,20:34) Hi WIT,
Good to see you back though we still have to meet on the bridge.
Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.That sums it up for me! Lazarus was a sleep, a very deep sleep a sleep so deep he could not think or love or dream.
Yes, death is often compared to sleep, because just as in a deep sleep, we are conscious of nothing, exactly as the Bible says of death. And, like death, we can be woken up, or resurrected (literally, a standing up again.)
Anyway, let's look at this talking to the dead for a moment. I was hoping to talk about that parable and the other hundreds of scriptures that talk about the soul, but we'll save that for another day. I have to leave again in about 10 minutes, so I'll be brief:
Nick, perhaps there is a reason such things are condemned in the Bible. Think about this: Why would a loving Father forbid us from speaking to our loved ones, if that truly were possible? Another question: Does not Satan want people to believe it doesn't matter what they do? Would promoting the belief that you have an immortal soul do this?
What Happened in Saul’s Case?
Consider this real-life experience recorded in the Bible: Fearful of the enemy Philistines, King Saul of ancient Israel sought out a spirit medium in En-dor. He asked her to contact the dead prophet Samuel. On hearing her description of an old man with a sleeveless coat, Saul assumed this apparition to be Samuel. And what was the message? Israel would be given into Philistine hands, and the next day Saul and his sons would be with “Samuel,” indicating that they would die while fighting the Philistines. (1 Samuel 28:4-19) Is that what happened?
Not exactly. Saul was severely wounded in battle with the Philistines, but he died a suicide. (1 Samuel 31:1-4) And contrary to the prediction suggesting that all Saul’s sons would die with him, his son Ish-bosheth survived him.
But was it proper to inquire of the dead in the first place? No, it was not. The Scriptures tell us: “Saul died for his unfaithfulness . . . and also for asking of a spirit medium to make inquiry.” (1 Chronicles 10:13) Can we learn something from this? Yes. Saul died for asking a spirit medium to inquire of the dead. Why? Because in doing this, he disobeyed God’s explicit law: “There should not be found in you . . . anyone who consults a spirit medium or a professional foreteller of events or anyone who inquires of the dead. For everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah.” (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) Why is inquiry of the dead detestable to God? Before answering that question, we may ask:
Is It Really Possible?
If anyone is to talk with the dead, the deceased must actually be alive. They must have immortal souls. Yet the Bible says: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7) Therefore, the person himself is a soul. He does not have an immortal soul that lives on after the death of the body. In fact, the Scriptures say: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) Moreover, God’s Word says: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,” mankind’s common grave.—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10.
Far from being more enlightened, then, the dead are unconscious. So it is impossible to speak with them. Acting in harmony with God’s law against inquiring of the dead therefore protects us from being deceived. Yet, messages from the spirit realm are possible, as King Saul’s experience shows.
But What Is the Source?
For one thing, frauds are common among those professing to contact the dead. The World Book Encyclopedia informs us: “It has been shown that mediums trick people at séances into believing that spirits can communicate with the living. Scientists offer explanations for much of what happens at séances. For example, some mediums are ventriloquists. Some use helpers and various types of trick equipment. Others use hypnosis. Many people who attend séances have a strong desire to contact a dead loved one. This desire may make them believe that any message delivered by the medium comes from the spirit world.”
But should we think only in such terms? No, for adhering to God’s decree against inquiring of the dead also protects us in a far more significant way. Messages do come from the spirit realm, but their source is powerful creatures seeking to mislead mankind. The Bible identifies them as “wicked spirit forces”—Satan the Devil and disobedient angels known as demons. (Ephesians 6:12) When King Saul visited the spirit medium in En-dor, it was a demon that impersonated the dead prophet Samuel.
As illustrated in the case of Saul, the demons have nothing beneficial to convey, and their supposed help is short-lived. Like their ruler, the Devil, they are liars. (Mark 3:22; John 8:44) In this regard, the late British psychic researcher Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote: “We have, unhappily, to deal with absolute cold-blooded lying on the part of wicked or mischievous intelligences. Every one who has investigated the matter has, I suppose, met with examples of wilful deception which occasionally are mixed up with good and true communications.” (The New Revelation, page 72) Of course, you do not want to be deceived, do you?Is it really possible for a human to communicate with the “spirit” of a dead loved one?
Eccl. 9:5, 6, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun. All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [the grave], the place to which you are going.”
Ezek. 18:4, 20: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (So the soul is not something that survives the death of the body and with which living humans can thereafter communicate.)
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (When the spirit is said to ‘go out’ of the body, this is merely another way of saying that the life-force has ceased to be active. Thus, after a person dies, his spirit does not exist as an immaterial being that can think and carry out plans apart from the body. It is not something with which the living can communicate after a person’s death.)Does not the Bible indicate that King Saul communicated with the prophet Samuel after Samuel’s death?
The account is found at 1 Samuel 28:3-20. Verses 13, 14 show that Saul himself did not see Samuel but only assumed from the description given by the spirit medium that she saw Samuel. Saul desperately wanted to believe that it was Samuel and so let himself be deceived. Verse 3 says that Samuel was dead and buried. The scriptures quoted above make clear that there was no part of Samuel that was alive in another realm and able to communicate with Saul. Or are these scriptures wrong? The voice that pretended to be that of Samuel was that of an impostor.“In case they should say to you people: ‘Apply to the spiritistic mediums or to those having a spirit of prediction who are chirping and making utterances in low tones,’ is it not to its God that any people should apply? Should there be application to dead persons in behalf of living persons?” (Isaiah 8:19)
Spirit mediums can trick people, “chirping and making utterances in low tones.” Such sound effects, attributed to the spirits of dead ones, can be worked through ventriloquism by a living medium. At times, though, the demons may get directly involved and impersonate the dead, as apparently happened when Saul inquired of the witch of Endor.—1 Samuel 28:8-19.With whom are those who endeavor to speak with the dead actually communicating?
The truth about the condition of the dead is clearly stated in the Bible. But who tried to deceive the first human pair about deat
h? Satan contradicted God’s warning that disobedience would bring death. (Gen. 3:4; Rev. 12:9) In time, of course, it became obvious that humans did die as God said they would. Reasonably, then, who was responsible for inventing the idea that humans really do not die but that some spirit part of man survives the death of the body? Such a deception fits Satan the Devil, whom Jesus described as “the father of the lie.” (John 8:44; see also 2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10.) Belief that the dead are really alive in another realm and that we can communicate with them has not benefited mankind. On the contrary, Revelation 18:23 says that, by means of the spiritistic practices of Babylon the Great, “all the nations were misled.” The spiritistic practice of ‘talking with the dead’ is actually a fraudulent deception that can put people in contact with the demons (angels that became selfish rebels against God) and often leads to a person’s hearing unwanted voices and being harassed by those wicked spirits.
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