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Look at what happens at the last Trumpet:
I Corinthians 15:51 – Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed – in a flash, in the twinkling of an eve, at the LAST trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.”
Rev. 11:15 – “The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “”the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever.””
Here is the promise the Father made to the Son:
Psalms 2:7 “”You are my Son: Today I have begotten thee. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession.”
Here Daniel sees into the future to the promise fulfillment:
Daniel 7:13,14 – “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”
The opening of the Seals is the reception and possession of the Title Deed to all of Creation being handed to Yeshua by Yahweh.
With each seal broken, judgement comes upon a rebellious people and cursed earth due to the fall of man. The last seal broken represents total possession now in the power of Yeshua. The bowl judgements are the culmination of judgement ending in Christ's kingdom established and the curse removed.
We are Christ's harvest unto the Father and will be delivered unto the Father by Him. Notice how many times the New Testament refers to those given to the Father by Christ as the “firstfruits”.
One must study the harvest to understand how it all ties together. I'm still learning this, but, The Church of God in Christ is the Barley harvest, the Jews represent the Wheat Harvest, the Grapes represent the rest of the nations. In each harvest, “firstfruits” are presented prior to the main harvest. So it will be with mankind.
Quote (Guest @ April 17 2005,12:29) Here is another thought on King Davids view of death: Psalms 6:5: No one remembers you when he is dead. Who praises you from the grave?
Hi greg,
So we live but our memory and ability to praise God are no longer? It sounds like sleep to me.
It also reminds us to keep the praise of God ringing now in our living temples while we can. That is the acceptable sacrifice.Today I am non-denominational, and I humbly and sincerely would like to address a concern with you that, as a former Roman Catholic, I have been deeply burdened with. It is a serious Roman Church error that was passionately addressed by both Martin Luther and William Tyndale during the Reformation. Today most evangelicals are still holding to Rome's teaching, and no one seems to be addressing it.
My concern, as was Luther's and Tyndale's concern, is the Greek philosophy that was mixed in with Christianity by the Roman Church. This philosophy of the Greeks is still widely accepted by evangelical Christians, and I really don't understand why evangelicals, who teach 'Scripture alone', would make an exception by allowing the pagan Greek philosophy to be preached in Christian Churches.
The Apostle Paul taught that, to the Greeks, the cross of Christ was 'foolishness'.
I Corinthians 1:22-23
“For Jews ask for signs, Greeks seek after wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified; a stumbling block to Jews, and foolishness to Greeks,”Why was the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ 'foolishness' to the 'wise' Greeks?
While Paul preached to the Greeks in Athens, it is written:
Acts 17:32
“Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked; but others said, “We want to hear you again concerning this.”Why did some of the Greeks 'mock' Paul's preaching of the resurrection of the dead?
Let me share with you just what exactly the Greeks of Paul's day believed:
I would like to quote from a book called “Plato-The Last days of Socrates”:
_
Socrates is speaking, “Do we believe that there is such a thing as death?”
“Most certainly,” said Simmias, taking up the role of answering.
“Is it simply the release of the soul from the body? Is death nothing more or less than this, the separate condition of the body by itself when it is released from the soul, and the separate condition by itself of the soul when released from the body? Is death anything else than this?” (Socrates)
“No, just that.” (Simmias) Page 108
Again, Socrates is speaking, with Cebes answering. “So now in the case of the immortal, if it is conceded that this is also imperishable, soul will be imperishable as well as immortal. Otherwise we shall need another argument”
“There is no need on that account,” said Cebes. “If what is immortal and eternal cannot avoid destruction, it is hard to see how anything else can.”
“Then since what is immortal is also indestructible, if soul is really immortal, surely it must be imperishable too. (Socrates)
“Quite inevitably.” said Cebes.
“So it appears that when death comes to a man, the mortal part of him dies, but the immortal part retires at the approach of death and escapes unharmed and indestructable.”
“Evidently”
“Then it is as certain as anything can be, Cebes, that soul is immortal and imperishable, and that our souls will really exist in the next world.” pages 168-9
_What we have just read above is the 'wise' teaching of the Greeks.
Now, here is the Gospel the Apostle Paul tells us he was sent to preach to them:
2 Timothy 1:8-11
“Don't be ashamed therefore of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me, his prisoner; but suffer hardship with the gospel according to the power of God, who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before times eternal, but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. For this, I was appointed as a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.”Paul preached to the Greeks that Jesus Christ 'abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel'.
This is the reason Paul tells us he was appointed as an Apostle — this was his message.
This is foolishness to the Greeks, because Paul taught Christ 'abolished death'.
The Greeks did not believe death was a reality. The Greeks did not believe death was real. The Greeks did not believe there was such a thing as the ending of a man's life. The Greeks believed that man continued to 'live' after his mortal shell was shed.
Teaching 'Christ abolished death' was utter foolishness to the Greeks — for they did not believe in death to begin with.
Paul also preached that Christ brought 'life and immortality' to light through the Gospel.
The Greeks already believed they possessed 'life and immortality'. The Greeks believed they already possessed eternal life. The Greeks believed they were 'immortal', 'incorruptible' creatures already.
To the Greeks, receiving 'life and immortality' as a gift from the Son of God was 'foolishness' — to the Greeks, Jesus Christ was not needed to possess immortality. The Greeks, in their 'wisdom', believed they already possessed life and immortality, and did not need Christ to attain it.
The Roman Church adopted precisely what the Greek's believed, and most protestant evangelicals are still believing precisely what is written in the Roman Catechism.
It is a known fact that the early Roman church fathers were highly influenced by the philosophy of the Greeks (Rome freely admits this fact), and read the Scriptures in light of it. Thus, much paganism has been mixed in with Christianity by the Roman Church. This paganism has become 'cemented' in Christian 'tradition', and has corrupted the Scriptures. The only way out of it is the method of Martin Luther, which I believe is the method taught by our Lord Jesus Christ — Scripture Alone (and in context). There is no such thing as 'infallible human tradition', as Luther discovered. I have come to understand that we cannot serve two masters. We cannot serve both Scripture and Human Tradition and expect to know the pure Biblical teaching of God.
Here are two quotes from two of the most famous reformers, who uncovered this horrible paganism that Rome mixed together with the Scriptures — paganism that soon became 'cemented' in protestant tradition, as well as Roman:
Martin Luther:
“Now, if one would say that Abraham's soul lives with God but his body is dead, this distinction is rubbish. I will attack it. One must say, “The whole Abraham, the whole man shall live. The other way you tear off a part of Abraham and say, “It lives.” This is the way the philosophers speak: “Afterward the soul departed from its domicile,” etc. That would be a silly soul if it were in heaven and desired its body!”William Tyndale:
“The true faith putteth [teaches] the resurrection, which we be warned to look for every hour. The heathen philosophers, denying that, did put [teach] that the souls did ever live. And the Pope joineth the spiritual doctrine of Christ and the fleshly doctrine of philosophers together … therefore he corrupteth the Scripture … And again, if the souls be in heaven … what cause is there of the resurrection?”Both Luther and Tyndale both spoke out harshly against this pagan Roman doctrine. It was obviously considered to be seriously grave error by both Luther and Tyndale. It did not seem to be an insignificant side issue to these men.
Again, here is the Gospel of the Apostle Paul:
“Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. For this, I was appointed as a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.”
There is no immortality apart from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus died, so we may live.
Think of the animal sacrifices of the Jews — the very sacrifices that demonstrated the sacrifice of the Messiah. The pure animal without blemi
sh was 'killed' to take the penalty of the guilty sinner. The animal was killed — it was killed dead — the innocent animal's life ended — the innocent life in exchange for the guilty. Jesus Christ died on the cross — His life was ended, just as the animals lives were ended. The wages of sin is death. Christ paid the wages for us, and now we need not die, but may live — the death penalty that hung over us has now been abolished by Christ — Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel.Christ died to offer eternal life as a 'gift' to all those who would repent and believe.
Life and immortality is a gift — and none can posses it without Jesus Christ.
This is foolishness to the world, because the majority of the world already believes they posses immortality — just as the Greeks.
What was the Devil's first lie?
“You won't surely die.”
This first lie of Satan is being believed by the whole world.
Satan contradicted God's punishment for sin. God said the punishment was death — Satan lied and said it was not true. Today, the whole world is believing there is no such thing as death — the whole world is believing they “won't surely die”. In fact, it was in believing this very lie of Satan, “You shall not surely die”, that brought death into the world. As the Apostle Paul tells us in Romans 5:12:
“Therefore, as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; and so death passed to all men, because all sinned.”The Egyptians — the Greeks — oriental religions — American Indians — Muslims — practically all of the pagan world religions believe that they are immortal and there is no such thing as death, making the cross of Christ to be 'foolishness'.
Will we, Disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, persist in holding onto the philosophy of the 'wise' heathen philosophers? Will we persist in believing man-made myths and fables?
Paul warned that men would no longer hold to the pure teaching that he gave us, but would turn aside to fables:
II Timothy 4:1-5
“I charge you therefore before God and the Lord, Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be urgent in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with all patience and teaching. For the time will come when they will not listen to the sound doctrine, but, having itching ears, will heap up for themselves teachers after their own lusts; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside to fables. But you be sober in all things, suffer hardship, do the work of an evangelist, and fulfill your ministry.”It is not right that we continue to mix together the pagan philosophy of the Greeks with Scripture.
By a Christian Church teaching that 'everyone already has immortality' makes the cross of Christ foolishness.
By a Christian Church teaching 'man does not need Jesus Christ to posses immortality' makes the death and resurrection of Christ foolishness.
The very reason Christ died was to 'abolish death', and bring 'life and immortality' to all who would believe in His name.
Please study the Scriptures and see whether or not you are indeed preaching the 'wisdom' of the Greeks, thus making the cross of Christ to be 'foolishness'.
John 6:40
“This is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son, and believes in him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”John 11:25-26
“Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me, though he die, yet will he live. Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”Do we believe this? Or will we 'twist' the Master's words around to make His words 'fit' with the 'tradition of men' that has been handed down to us?
Let us heed the warning of the Apostle Paul:
Colossians 2:8
“Be careful that you don't let anyone rob you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the elements of the world, and not after Christ.”With much love as a brother in Christ,
Berean2005
[/B]
Hi B,
If the “soul” does not exist why does the word appear about 300 times in the Word of God? What part of us sleeps in the earth if our body rots and our spirit returns to God? Why did Jesus warn to fear Him who is able to destoy BOTH BODY AND SOUL in Hell in Matt 10?Hi B,
If “soul” just means “life” then how do you expound Lk 16 about the rich man and Lazarus, or Matt 16.26? What is the “tent” Paul speaks of in 2 Cor 5? What is the “inner man” and ” outer man” Paul speaks of?Hi,
Ps 131.2
“.. my soul is like a weaned child WITHIN ME”
Ps31.9
” ..I am in distress;my eye is wasted away from grief, my SOUL AND MY BODY ALSO”
Ps 42.4f
” These things I remember , and I pour out my SOUL WITHIN ME…
Why are you in despair, O my SOUL? Why have you become disturbed WITHIN ME?..
O my God my SOUL is in despair WITHIN ME:…
Why are you in despair,O my SOUL? And why have you become disturbed WITHIN ME?”So there is separation between outer man and inner man, who is soul within us.
Hi,
Many have denied the soul because of unreasoned fear of Greek influence. Scriptural truth stands on it's own foundation and you do not need to sanitise it of these things.Those who have tried to do so have finished up doing something worse-denying scriptural truth itself.
Those who deny the soul cannot then see us or Jesus as anything but a body and a spirit given at conception. Thus they deny the glorious preexistence of the Son of God.It is all based on a misunderstanding of Genesis 2
Man is created from dust. God reminds him in the next chapter he is but dust. That dust remains as an earthly influence on men drawing them to earthly, selfish, thoughtless, lustful behaviours.That is the outer man and Jesus was like to us fully in these ways.But Man has the breath of God blown into that dust to give it life and personality, feelings and the capacity to understand. These make up the inner man.The life comes from the spirit of man.
James 2.26
” For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.”
So also the knowledge of the thoughts of man come from the spirit.
1Cor 2.11
” For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him”But the personality and the emotions come from the soul. Read the psalms and almost half of them refer to the nature of the soul. The sadness, grieving, joy and understanding itself rest in it and do not die at death though the soul sleeps till the resurrection. The soul goes to Sheol under the OT, a place of waiting that includes Hades as shown in Lk 16. That is why Paul, the tentmaker, wanted to leave his tent as he described his body. He knew he would still live to be with the Lord.
Hi,
Saul spoke with the prophet Samuel after the death of the prophet in 1Sam 28. How is this possible? Jesus said in Mt 22.32 God was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and said God was the God of the living and not the dead-sayng, in effect, they were still alive. Again he said Abraham rejoiced to see his day, and that Lazarus, his friend who died, was not dead but asleep.Men who see death of the body as extinguishing of all life do not agree with the words of Jesus Christ.
Remember, a Disciple must become like a tiny little 'infant' to understand the mysteries of the Kingdom. Infants understand things in very simple ways. Infants are not 'wise and learned' philosophers with deep, complex understandings. Infants have very simple understandings.
Is death a reality?
Of course it is.
Does a man's days end at death?
Of course they do.
However, God says, in His Word, that He is going to raise all men who have died back to life again at the Resurrection Day.
To God, no one is dead. All are still alive to Him, because it is just a matter of time before He raises all the dead back to life again.
If God see's a dead man, He can simply say, “Man, arise!” and the man would be alive again.
If God see's a dead child, He can simply say, “Little child, arise!” and the little child would be alive again.
To God, those who are dead are just 'sleeping'.
Understanding the 'language' of the Scriptures is very important. Rome does not understand the langauge of Scripture. They are more familiar with the language of Plato.
Remember, much paganism was mixed in with Christianity through the Roman Church.
To God, death is a 'sleep'.
The Old Testament says death is a 'sleep'.
The Gospels say death is a 'sleep'
The Apostle Peter says death is a 'sleep'
The Apostle Paul says death is a 'sleep'
But Rome says, “NO! Death is not a sleep!”
Who is contradicting the Words of Jesus?
Someone who says death 'is a sleep' is contradicting Jesus ?
Or someone who says 'death is not a sleep' is contradicting Jesus?
The first death is considered a 'sleep'.
The second death is not.
There is no resurrection from the second death.
Jesus Christ died to ABOLISH DEATH and bring LIFE AND IMMORTALITY to all who would believe in His name. This is the Gospel of the Apostle Paul.
II Timothy Chapter 1:
“Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. For this, I was appointed as a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.”The above Gospel is NOT the Gospel of Rome, but it IS the Gospel of the Apostle Paul.
Also, both animals and men are both called 'souls' in Scripture. Both animals and men have God's breath of life in their nostrills according to Scripture.
According to Scripture, man is nothing but dust and ashes, and according to Scripture, man has no advantage over the animals — both die and become dust.
Ecclesiastes 9:4-6
4For to him who is joined with all the living there is hope; for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5For the living know that they will die, but the dead don't know anything, neither do they have any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6Also their love, their hatred, and their envy has perished long ago; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun.Job 7:9
9As the cloud is consumed and vanishes away, so he who goes down to Sheol shall come up no more.Scripture teaches us that death is the end of life. The pagans teach that death is the beginning of higher life. The pagans teach that death is the doorway to new life. The pagan religions, therefore, believe there is no such thing as death. But according to the Scriptures, death is a reality. Just ask Job if death was a reality or not. The Scriptures teach that a man who dies is like a cloud that is consumed and vanishes away. He dies, returns to dust, and lives no more.
Job 10:9
9Remember, I beg you, that you have fashioned me as clay. Will you bring me into dust again?Job 14:19
19The waters wear the stones; the torrents of it wash away the dust of the earth: So you destroy the hope of man.Job 17:1
1″My spirit is consumed, my days are extinct, and the grave is ready for me.Job 20:7
7Yet he shall perish forever like his own dung, Those who have seen him shall say, 'Where is he?'Job 24:19
19Drought and heat consume the snow waters; So does Sheol those who have sinned.Job 27:3
3(For the length of my life is still in me, And the spirit of God is in my nostrils);Job 34:14-15
14If he set his heart on himself, If he gathered to himself his spirit and his breath; 15All flesh would perish together, And man would turn again to dust.Job 17:13-16
13If I look for Sheol as my house, If I have spread my couch in the darkness, 14If I have said to corruption, 'You are my father;' to the worm, 'My mother,' and 'my sister;' 15Where then is my hope? As for my hope, who shall see it? 16Shall it go down with me to the gates of Sheol, Or descend together into the dust?”The Apostle Paul writes in I Corinthians 15:53: “For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
Paul teaches in his letters that man is now only mortal, but those in Christ will put on immortality on the Resurrection Day. Job was only mortal, and he knew it. Job did not believe the pagan teaching that man is immortal. No, Job was only a man made out of clay, and he knew it well. Job was only a temporary creature, like a cloud that vanishes away is temporary, and he knew it well. Job knew that death was a hard reality. Job did not believe the Devil's first lie. The Devil's first lie, which is, “You shall not surely die.” This lie of the father of lies is the foundation of all the pagan teachings that deny man is mortal, and deny man dies because of sin, and deny man needs Jesus Christ, the Prince of Life, to be given immortality as a gift. Job did not deny the teaching of Scripture. Job knew exactly what he was, and what he was not.
Abraham also knew exactly what he was:
Genesis 18:27:
27Abraham answered, “See now, I have taken it on myself to speak to the Lord, who am but dust and ashes.And of course, the first man, Adam, knew exactly what he was:
Genesis 3:19
19By the sweat of your face will you eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”God told Adam, “YOU are dust.”
Who will add to what God told Adam? Who will say, “No! Adam is NOT dust, Adam is immortal, only his useless body is dust!”
Who will say Adam is 'far greater than dust and ashes', after God had told Adam, flat out, “YOU ARE DUST”.
Scripture Alone means taking what is written ONLY, and NEVER adding or injecting our own personal thoughts, theories and opinions together with what is written.
Body and Life: A man can kill your body, but he cannot kill your life. A man can simply put you to 'sleep' for a little while. Only God has the power to destroy a man's life — forever.
If you shot and killed a man 10 years ago, you have indeed killed the man's body. But if God looks upon the man you had killed 10 years ago, is this man's life destroyed in God's eyes? In God's eyes, the man is still alive, only 'sleeping'. All God has to do is say, “arise!” and behold, the man you shot will be alive once more.
Luke 17:33
33Whoever seeks to gain his life loses it, but whoever loses his life preserves it.Matthew 16:25-26
25For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, and whoever will lose his life for my sake will find it. 26For what will it profit a man, if he will gain the whole world, and forfeit his life? Or what will a man give in exchange for his life?Mark 8:35-37
35For whoever wants to save his life will lose it; and whoever will lose his life for my sake and the Gospel's will save it. 36For what does it profit a man, to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life? 37For what should a man give in exchange for his life?Jo
hn 12:25
25He who loves his life will lose it. He who hates his life in this world will keep it to eternal life.There is no immortality apart from the Lord Jesus Christ.
In Jesus,
Berean2005
Hi B,
Jn 5.24
” Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes Him who sent me, has eternal life, and does not come under judgement, but has passed out of death into life”
Do you believe this?Hi B,
To interpret all scriptures as through the eyes of God and as in the future is Romish Mysticism surely? Eternal life is given now in Jesus Christ and completely fulfilled at his return.
Rom 8.10
” If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you”Jesus said
“I will never leave you or forsake you “and that includes after physical death.I have a question:
What would happen if there was NO RESURRECTION DAY for those who have died believing in Christ?
What IF, and I do say IF, there were NO RESURRECTION DAY?
What would come of those who have died belieiving in Christ?
In Jesus,
Berean2005
Hi b,
1Cor 15.12-19Matt 10.28
” Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the SOUL;but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both body and SOUL in Hell”[geena]So death of the body as occurs when someone is murdered, is not the same as death of the soul. Potential destruction of body and soul is the second death after the resurrections. It does not say God, who is the one to be feared, does destroy the body and soul but is able to. No ordinary body can withstand fire but the qualities of the soul is not known except that we know the soul survives the first death and sleeps in the nether world, Sheol or the pit[Ez 32].
Hades is described in Lk 16 and the rich man is able to converse with the living Abraham in the resting place of the righteous. Jesus ,of course holds the key to Hades and it is destroyed by being thrown into the lke of fire at the end.
The book of Revelation is scripture and cannot be discarded but must be grasped as well. The end of the book is often more revealing than the beginning in that we know the final state of those who do not find salvation in Jesus.
psB,
If you translate “soul” as “life” in this verse then do you accept “death of life” is a separate concept from “death of the body”?Hi,
It looks as though this forum should be resurrected to discuss the soul. Speaking of resurrection it is the body that is resurrected in an immortal form, at least in the first resurrection[1Cor 15].The scriptures tell us we are body, soul and spirit.[1Thess.5].The psalms are full of references to the soul and it's resting place in sheol\hades for those who died prior to the coming of the Son of God.Hi,
Speaking to those anointed by the Spirit Paul said of the first resurrection in Romans 8.10f
“And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you”
Indeed they have passed from death to life[jn 5.24]
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