The soul

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2008,10:32)

Hi, In another thread GB said “If we conceder that the soul is composed of the will, …” Does anyone agree? Is it written?

Hmmn…can't say I've heard this before…what translation?

[gollamudi]

Quote (dirtyknections @ June 11 2008,08:41)

Nick… Honestly this is what I “believe” (still sudying/praying on this).. I believe that all “new creations”…”baptized in christ”…”baptized in holy spirit”  Christians are part of that new covenant that Christ instituted…therefore they have a heavenly hope… And all people who lived and died before that time and people who did not avail themselves of this new covenant after Christ instituted it…will be on earth.. God “did not make the earth simply for nothing, but to be inhabited” (nwt)..that was his original purpose…therefore it will not change… But Christ's new covenant with Chrstians after his death is heavenly…What will we do in heaven? As revelation says in Ch 7 and 14…be kings and priests over the earth So there you go…People in heaven..People on earth..

So DK,
we will be in heaven after our death?

[dirtyknections]

Quote (gollamudi @ June 12 2008,04:06)

Quote (dirtyknections @ June 11 2008,08:41) Nick… Honestly this is what I “believe” (still sudying/praying on this).. I believe that all “new creations”…”baptized in christ”…”baptized in holy spirit”  Christians are part of that new covenant that Christ instituted…therefore they have a heavenly hope… And all people who lived and died before that time and people who did not avail themselves of this new covenant after Christ instituted it…will be on earth.. God “did not make the earth simply for nothing, but to be inhabited” (nwt)..that was his original purpose…therefore it will not change… But Christ's new covenant with Chrstians after his death is heavenly…What will we do in heaven? As revelation says in Ch 7 and 14…be kings and priests over the earth So there you go…People in heaven..People on earth.. So DK, we will be in heaven after our death?

Hey brother GM…

Yes is my answer…but i am open to discussion and by no means am I dogmatic

[david]

Quote

Do you still believe the JW dogma that all men are saved at death? It is similar to Universalism in that way.

–Nick.

So, Nick often misrepresents what I believe. It's not on purpose….always…

Quote

Saved? NO But I do believe you have paid your “price” when you die

–Anthony

This is what JW's actually believe.

[dirtyknections]

Quote (david @ June 12 2008,12:32)

Quote Do you still believe the JW dogma that all men are saved at death? It is similar to Universalism in that way. –Nick. So, Nick often misrepresents what I believe.  It's not on purpose….always… Quote Saved? NO But I do believe you have paid your “price” when you die –Anthony This is what JW's actually believe.

I know…I was just stating what I simply believe…NIck knows we don't believe that..yet he still says it like its fact..I've seen you mention the fact that we don't believe that numerous times..

I was just avoiding the whole JW thing…Lets stick to scripture..no labels..

[NickHassan]

Hi david,
ALMOST ALL MEN PAY THE PRICE OF THE FIRST DEATH.

The body of earth has no inheritance.
But there is also a settling of accounts shown in Mt25

[Shania]

Quote (dirtyknections @ June 13 2008,03:44)

Quote (gollamudi @ June 12 2008,04:06) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 11 2008,08:41) Nick… Honestly this is what I “believe” (still sudying/praying on this).. I believe that all “new creations”…”baptized in christ”…”baptized in holy spirit”  Christians are part of that new covenant that Christ instituted…therefore they have a heavenly hope… And all people who lived and died before that time and people who did not avail themselves of this new covenant after Christ instituted it…will be on earth.. God “did not make the earth simply for nothing, but to be inhabited” (nwt)..that was his original purpose…therefore it will not change… But Christ's new covenant with Chrstians after his death is heavenly…What will we do in heaven? As revelation says in Ch 7 and 14…be kings and priests over the earth So there you go…People in heaven..People on earth.. So DK, we will be in heaven after our death? Hey brother GM… Yes is my answer…but i am open to discussion and by no means am I dogmatic

Scripture says that there will be a NEW Heaven and a NEW earth. I have some JW friends and what I understand their doctrine to be is that they will live forever on this earth; after they get new bodies and the earth is perfect again.

Seems to me that this earth will be destroyed and the Kingdom of Heaven will reside on the New Heaven and New Earth:

2 Peter 3:12-13
12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
NIV

Rev 21:1
21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
NIV

Rev 21:2-5
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!”
NIV

Seems like after the final judgement, those in Heaven and in Sheol will be relocated to new earth and Gehenna respectively.

[NickHassan]

Hi Shania,
Meek men shall inherit the earth.
? the renewed earth.

[Shania]

Why shouldn't they inherit the new earth? It would be their dwelling place…

[NickHassan]

Hi shania,
Is it new or renewed?

[gollamudi]

Hi Nick,
Where is it mentioned as 'renewed earth'?

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
If the meek are to inherit the earth
how can there be another earth?

[gollamudi]

yes, the meek will inherit the same earth during the millennial rule.
Is it OK?

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
True.
Then comes rev21
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

What makes earth,
earth?

Why does God call it earth if it is another planet

[gollamudi]

Say it will be “New Earth” that's all why to waste our time on discussing knowing things.

[Shania]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 14 2008,13:08)

Hi GM, True. Then comes rev21 1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.   What makes earth, earth?   Why does God call it earth if it is another planet

It seems as if something is destroyed or passed away, it is no longer there.  If I burn a T-shirt, I need to replace it with a new T-shirt.  This is my understanding of the new heavens and new earth.

Just a thought:

If the wages of sin is death, our bodies die.  Then we get new bodies.  [This is in scripture.]  Why is it different with the earth?  The earth was affected by sin:  the ground was cursed and did not yield crops easily, the flood (caused by sin) affected the earth.  If this earth is affected by sin, why wouldn't it “die” and be replaced?  Seems as though that's how it works with us….

[gollamudi]

You are right Shania. God is going make to New heaven and New earth where we will spend our eternity.

[NickHassan]

For shania

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
You said in another thread.
“So we both agree that souls are not immortals. But what will be their status when we die? “

Try this one

Gen35

16And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour.

17And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.

18And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

19And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.”

Souls depart at death

Leviticus 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

James 1:21
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

James 5:20
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

It is not flesh and needs to be saved.

Psalm 139:14
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Our soul understands

Mark 8:37
Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

We are soul in God's eyes.

SOUL REMAINS AFTER DEATH

[gollamudi]

Hi brother Nick,
Thanks again for bringing me to appropriate thread on “soul”.
Yes I agree that soul departs on our death because the spirit leaves to reach God. What do you mean by departing? where it is going as you think?

As I have mentioned earlier the word 'soul' can mean a person.  As “the soul that sins shall die” in Ezk 18:3 , the soul shall die you may refer it to second death I agree.
But some times in the bible soul and spirit are used interchangeably. Please see this verse in Ps 146:6
“His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish”. Another proof that only our spirit reaches God not our soul as per Eccl 12:7
“The body returns to the dust and the spirit [or breath of life] returns to God”.
Please comment on these scriptures.
Thanks
Adam

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