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In what way have I tried to “improve” his words Nick?
When someone says: “Trinity–John 1:1–done.”
You, Nick, quickly point out the rest of the Bible. Of course the rest of the Bible doesn't “improve” John 1:1. But our understanding of John 1:1 would have to agree with the Bible as a whole? Right? Right? Wouldn't it? Of course it would.
So how is my bringing other scriptures that speak of the same things in, any different than you mentioning scriptures when someone says:
“Trinity, John 1:1, done”?Hi david,
We compare scripture with scripture to clarify what is veiled.
What Jesus said in Matt 10.28 is not veiled but quite clear.
Men can kill our body
Only God can destroy the soul in the lake of fire.Quote Hi david,
We compare scripture with scripture to clarify what is veiled.
What Jesus said in Matt 10.28 is not veiled but quite clear.
Men can kill our body
Only God can destroy the soul in the lake of fire.So, we shouldn't attempt to look at the other ways in which the word “soul” is used in the Bible? We shouldn't compare the meanings of the word “soul” with what this scripture says?
Rather, you suggest we should look at this scripture in isolation?2 TIMOTHY 3:16
“All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,”Quote We compare scripture with scripture to clarify what is veiled.
What Jesus said in Matt 10.28 is not veiled but quite clear.The problem with that, is that the trinitarians will quite strongly assert the exact same thing about each and every “trinity proof” text. It is quite clear to them what each of these trinity proof texts say, despite what the rest of the Bible says.
The souls of the saints must be alive if the next verse is taken to mean what it says. I know this isn't a shock verse because I am sure that we all know of this. But how does a JW fit that one into the picture they have?
Revelation 6:9-11
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained.
10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.Then there are the other scriptures like Lazarus, and the medium who called up the dead and they/he answered.
Perhaps the dust going back to the earth and the spirit back to God is the big picture for man. But God has decided to save man from this fate, even though not all men choose salvation.
Hi t8.
First, the book of revelation is filled with symbolisms.Those “souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained” could not be disembodied souls—like those believed in by the pagan Greeks. (Genesis 2:7)
Rather, John knows that the soul, or life, is symbolized by the blood.
LEVITICUS 17:11
“For the soul of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have put it upon the altar for YOU to make atonement for YOUR souls, because it is the blood that makes atonement by the soul [in it].”
There are primarily two uses of the word “soul” in the Bible: A person or animal or the life of a person or animal. In this scripture in Leviticus, it says the soul of the flesh is in the blood. Clearly, it doesn't mean some disembodied persona, but rather the “life” of the flesh is in the blood. This makes sense. Blood represents life.John knows that when the priests at the ancient Jewish tabernacle slaughtered a sacrificial animal, they sprinkled the blood “round about upon the altar” or poured it “at the base of the altar of burnt offering.” (Leviticus 3:2, 8, 13; 4:7; 17:6, 11, 12) Hence, the animal’s soul was closely identified with the altar of sacrifice. But why would the souls, or blood, of these particular servants of God be seen underneath a symbolic altar in heaven? Because their deaths are viewed as sacrificial. They submit to a sacrificial death in behalf of Jehovah’s sovereignty. (Philippians 3:8-11; COMPARE 2:17.)
This is true in a very real sense of those whom John saw under the altar. They are anointed ones who in their day were martyred for their zealous ministry in upholding Jehovah’s Word and sovereignty. Their “souls [were] slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work [mar·ty·ri′an] that they used to have.”
In view of what Leviticus 17:11 says about the life or soul as being in the blood, it is quite evident that John’s words here mean that he saw the blood of faithful Christians who had been slaughtered because of their faithfulness to God and his Word.
I think I'm overcomplicating this. The souls (or according to one biblical use of that word, “lives” of those were seen under the alter. The soul (life) of the flesh is in the blood, the Bible says. So for the symbolic book of revelation to say that the lives or souls of these were under the alter does not mean that disembodied souls, as believed by the Greeks, is what is meant here.
Quote Then there are the other scriptures like Lazarus, and the medium who called up the dead and they/he answered.
I have discussed both these for pages with Nick (I believe in the “soul” or “hell/hades” threads)Hi david,
Does that mean that it is not truth?
Or perhaps you would like us which bits you think are truth?
You said
“First, the book of revelation is filled with symbolisms.”Hi david,
Does the blood of Abel still cry out from the ground on which it is poured out?
By faith is he still alive according to how God defines life?Heb 11
” 4By faith (I)Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he (J)obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his (K)gifts, and through faith, though (L)he is dead, he still speaks.”Natural human life needs a spirit.
But scripture shows in Mt 10.28 that
despite the destruction of the flesh in the dust of the earth
a man is not yet destroyed.Quote Does the blood of Abel still cry out from the ground on which it is poured out?
Hi Nick. So you think this is literal and people heard and still can apparently hear Abel's blood crying out from the ground?HEBREWS 12:24
“and Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and the blood of sprinkling, which speaks in a better way than Abel’s [blood].”
Is Jesus' blood similarly literally speaking? Or does this mean something else?LUKE 11:48-51
“Certainly YOU are witnesses of the deeds of YOUR forefathers and yet YOU give consent to them, because these killed the prophets but YOU are building [their tombs]. On this account the wisdom of God also said, ‘I will send forth to them prophets and apostles, and they will kill and persecute some of them, so that the blood of all the prophets spilled from the founding of the world may be required from this generation, from the blood of Abel down to the blood of Zech·a·ri′ah, who was slain between the altar and the house.’ Yes, I tell YOU, it will be required from this generation.”Here's something that will help:
HEBREWS 11:4
“By faith Abel offered God a sacrifice of greater worth than Cain, through which [faith] he had witness borne to him that he was righteous, God bearing witness respecting his gifts; and through it he, although he died, yet speaks.”Though shed in martyrdom, Abel’s blood did not ransom or redeem anyone, any more than did the blood of his sacrificed sheep. His blood in effect cried to God for vengeance upon assassin Cain. The blood of Jesus, here presented as validating the new covenant, speaks in a better way than Abel’s in that it calls to God for mercy upon all persons of faith like Abel, and is the means by which their ransoming is possible.
It's not literally speaking Nick.
Hey Nick and Heiscomingintheclouds,
This came up in minister certification class last week. What a debate! These are the points I raised and the instructor could not refute it. I believe the Bible teaches
that our spirit or breath returns to God such as when Stephen was martyred in Acts and called for the Lord Jesus to receive his spirit.However, 1 Thessolonians 4:16 clearly teaches that upon Chirst's return, the DEAD IN CHRIST will rise first. Paul goes on to speak of a secret that we shall not all sleep in death but goes on to confirm that the final resurrection will occur in the twinkling of an eye, at the sound of the last trump. That would be the trumpet sounded at Christ's return so it dovetails with 1 Thess. 4:16.
Ezekiel 18:1 says, “The soul WHO sins is the one who will die.” Sounds like the whole person to me. Why would Christ need to resurrect someone if they were already with him in heaven in some form?
Remember how hard Paul came down on Hymeneus and Philetus, who SWERVE AS TO TRUTH, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and are subverting the faith of some” (II Tim. 2:18)
It would seem that saying that people have already been resurrected to their heavenly glory NOW would be saying the same thing as Hymeneus and Philetus. Much Greek mythology has to do with all of these concepts of souls living on elsewhere after death. We have to sift carefully.One thing I will say is that there is a void of time in death. I believe its like falling asleep and next thing you know you're high-fiving the Lord in the air! That is how Paul could say that we would be changed in a twinkling of an eye. In our concept of time, it will be instant but really not before the Lord Jesus returns to resurrect those dead in Christ.
Just my 5 cents,
What do you guys think?
Semmy
1 Samuel 28:4-20 (King James Version)
4And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa.
5And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.
6And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
7Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
8And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
9And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
10And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
11Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
16Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
17And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
18Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.
19Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
20Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night.(As a footnote, I’d like to say that the word “LORD” is in capital letters to let us know that a change has been made and that this is where God’s name should be, and used to be.)
Before saying anything, I would like to say this: GOD HATES SPIRITISTIC PRACTICES, and there is a reason for that. WHY?
Why does God Almighty so loathe those who consult spirit mediums? (Deut 18:9-12) Why does he view them as unclean? (Lev. 19:31)
If we really could talk to our dead loved ones, why would a God of love condemn it as something “detestable” and “unclean”?
Even though God had legislated strictly against spiritism, spirit mediums appeared from time to time in the land of Israel. These were probably foreigners who came into the land or some of those who had been spared from destruction by the Israelites.
King Saul removed them from the land during his reign, but evidently toward the end of his rule some spirit mediums again began their practice. SAUL DEMONSTRATED HOW FAR HE HAD REMOVED HIMSELF FROM GOD when he went to consult the “mistress of spirit mediumship in En-dor.”—1Sa 28:3, 7-10.Now, let’s look at what the account says, and what the Bible says.
In the fortieth year of his reign King Saul faces a battle with the Philistines near Mount Gilboa. Realizing that he is abandoned by Jehovah God, he turns to witchcraft,* which he had at the beginning banned from his kingdom. By night, and disguised, he visits a surviving witch at Endor and tries to communicate through her with dead Samuel for information.
*A Merriam Webster definition for “witchcraft” is: “communication with the devil or with a familiar.” So I think it applies.You said that the Bible says that Saul “knew” that it was Samuel. Interestingly, your KJV says that he “perceived” that it was Samuel. (Verse 14) Encarta says one possible meaning of “perceive” is: “to understand or interpret something in a particular way.” And yes, Saul did “perceive” or interpret things that way. But look closely at verses 13 and 14. Verses 13, 14 show that Saul himself did not see Samuel but only assumed from the description given by the spirit medium that she saw Samuel. (Please read that last line again.) Saul desperately wanted to believe that it was Samuel and so let himself be deceived. On hearing her description of an old man with a sleeveless coat, Saul assumed or “perceived” this apparition to be Samuel.
AND WHAT WAS THE MESSAGE given by this “Samuel”? Israel would be given into Philistine hands, and the next day Saul and his sons would be with “Samuel,” indicating that they would die while fighting the Philistines. (1 Samuel 28:4-19) Is that what happened?
Not “tomorrow,” as the “Samuel” INCORRECTLY says, but a number of days later King Saul and three, not all, of his sons fall in battle at Mount Gilboa. (His son Ish-bosheth survived him.)—1 Sam. 28:4-25; 31:1-13.Question: Does dying somehow give a person the ability to fortell the future? If so, why did “Samuel” do it so badly. And if not, why would “Samuel” think he could, or try to do something he couldn’t do? We know that Satan and his demons like to mislead. We know that “Samuel’s” prophecies were not from Jehovah because they were WRONG and Jehovah was not answering Saul at this time. (verse 6) As well, Jehovah hates spiritism. If Jehovah was not behind this, then who?
When Saul went to the medium, Jehovah’s spirit had for some time been removed from him, and in fact, God would not answer his inquiries by means of dreams or by the Urim (used by the high priest) or by the prophets. (1Sa 28:6) God would have no more to do with him; and God’s prophet Samuel had not seen Saul for a long period of time, from before David’s being anointed to be king. So IT IS UNREASONABLE TO THINK THAT SAMUEL, EVEN IF STILL ALIVE, WOULD NOW COME TO GIVE SAUL ADVICE. And God would certainly not cause Samuel, whom he had not sent to Saul before his death, to come back from the dead to talk to Saul.—1Sa 15:35.
We are told that“Although Saul would inquire of Jehovah, Jehovah never answered him, either by dreams or by the Úrim or by the prophets.” (28:6) Could Saul trick Jehovah by going about this another way to get some information from him through Samuel?
That JEHOVAH WOULD IN NO WAY APPROVE OF OR COOPERATE WITH SAUL’S ACTIONS is shown by his later statement through Isaiah:“And in case they should say to you people: ‘Apply to the spiritistic mediums or to those having a spirit of prediction who are chirping and making utterances in low tones,’ is it not to its God that any people should apply? Should there be application to dead persons in behalf of living persons? To the law and to the attestation!”—Isa 8:19, 20.Therefore, when the account reads: “When the woman saw ‘Samuel’ she began crying out at the top of her voice,” it obviously recounts the eventAS VIEWED BY THE M
EDIUM,who was deceived by the spirit that impersonated Samuel. (1Sa 28:12)
As for Saul himself, the principle stated by the apostle Paul applied: “Just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting . . . Although these know full well the righteous decree of God, that those practicing such things are deserving of death, they not only keep on doing them but also consent with those practicing them.”—Ro 1:28-32.The Commentary on the Old Testament, by C. F. Keil and F. Delitzsch (1973, Vol. II, First Samuel, p. 265), refers to the Greek Septuagint at 1 Chronicles 10:13, which has added the words “and Samuel the prophet answered him.” (Bagster) The Commentary supports the view that is implied by these uninspired words in the Septuagint, but it adds:“Nevertheless the fathers, reformers, and earlier Christian theologians, with very few exceptions, assumed that there was not a real appearance of Samuel, but only an imaginary one. According to the explanation given by Ephraem Syrus, an apparent image of Samuel was presented to the eye of Saul through demoniacal arts. Luther and Calvin adopted the same view, and the earlier Protestant theologians followed them in regarding the apparition as nothing but a diabolical spectre, a phantasm, or diabolical spectre in the form of Samuel, and Samuel’s announcement as nothing but a diabolical revelation made by divine permission, in which truth is mixed with falsehood.”
So even some who believe that this really was Samuel recognize that “the fathers, reformers, and earlier Christian theologians, with very few exceptions,” believed that this was not really Samuel, but that this witch was using demonical arts.
In a footnote (First Samuel, pp. 265, 266), this Commentary says: “Thus Luther says . . . ‘The raising of Samuel by a soothsayer or witch, in 1 Sam. xxviii. 11, 12, was certainly merely a spectre of the devil; not only because the Scriptures state that it was effected by a woman who was full of devils (for who could believe that the souls of believers, who are in the hand of God, . . . were under the power of the devil, and of simple men?), but also because it was evidently in opposition to the command of God that Saul and the woman inquired of the dead. The Holy Ghost cannot do anything against this himself, nor can He help those who act in opposition to it.’ Calvin also regards the apparition as only a spectre . . . : ‘It is certain,’ he says, ‘that it was not really Samuel, for God would never have allowed His prophets to be subjected to such diabolical conjuring. For here is a sorceress calling up the dead from the grave. Does any one imagine that God wished His prophet to be exposed to such ignominy; as if the devil had power over the bodies and souls of the saints which are in His keeping? The souls of the saints are said to rest . . . in God, waiting for their happy resurrection. Besides, are we to believe that Samuel took his cloak with him into the grave? For all these reasons, it appears evident that the apparition was nothing more than a spectre, and that the senses of the woman herself were so deceived, that she thought she saw Samuel, whereas it really was not he.’ The earlier orthodox theologians also disputed the reality of the appearance of the departed Samuel on just the same grounds.”
Nearly 400 years after Saul’s reign, King Manasseh of Judah “did on a large scale what was bad in Jehovah’s eyes, to offend him,” including the consulting of professional foretellers of events, who flourished under his rule. (2Ki 21:6; 2Ch 33:6) All of these had to be cleaned out of the land by Manasseh’s grandson, righteous King Josiah.—2Ki 23:24.
I think that’s pretty much it. But I’d like to add:
WAS IT PROPER FOR TO HIM TO INQUIRE OF THE DEAD? No, it was not. The Scriptures tell us: “SAUL DIED for his unfaithfulness . . . and ALSO FOR ASKING OF A SPIRIT MEDIUM to make inquiry.” (1 Chronicles 10:13)
Can we learn something from this? Yes. Saul died for asking a spirit medium to inquire of the dead. Why? Because in doing this, he disobeyed God’s explicit law:
DEUTERONOMY 18:9-12
“…You must not learn to do according to the detestable things of those nations. There should not be found in you . . . anyone who consults a spirit medium or a professional foreteller of events or anyone who inquires of the dead. For everybody doing these things is something detestable to Jehovah.”
LEVITICUS 19:31
“Do not turn yourselves to the spirit mediums, and do not consult professional foretellers of events, so as to become unclean by them.”
Why is inquiry of the dead “detestable to Jehovah”? Before answering that question, we may ask:Is It Really Possible? What does the Bible say?
If anyone is to talk with the dead, the deceased must actually be alive. They must have immortal souls. Yet the Bible says: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7) Therefore, the person himself is a soul. He does not have an immortal soul that lives on after the death of the body. In fact, the Scriptures say: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) Moreover, God’s Word says: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol,” mankind’s common grave.—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10.
Far from being more enlightened, then, the dead are unconscious. So it is impossible to speak with them. Acting in harmony with God’s law against inquiring of the dead therefore protects us from being deceived. Yet, messages from the spirit realm are possible, as King Saul’s experience shows.Is it really possible for a human to communicate with the “spirit” of a dead loved one?
Eccl. 9:5, 6, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun. All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [the grave], the place to which you are going.”
Ezek. 18:4, 20: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (So the soul is not something that survives the death of the body and with which living humans can thereafter communicate.)
Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (When the spirit is said to ‘go out’ of the body, this is merely another way of saying that the life-force has ceased to be active. Thus, after a person dies, his spirit does not exist as an immaterial being that can think and carry out plans apart from the body. It is not something with which the living can communicate after a person’s death.)But What Is the Source?
For one thing, frauds are common among those professing to contact the dead. The World Book Encyclopedia informs us: “It has been shown that mediums trick people at séances into believing that spirits can communicate with the living. Scientists offer explanations for much of what happens at séances. For example, some mediums are ventriloquists. Some use helpers and various types of trick equipment. Others use hypnosis. Many people who attend séances have a strong desire to contact a dead loved one. This desire may make them believe that any message delivered by the medium comes from the spirit world.”
But should we think only in such terms? No, for adhering to God’s decree against inquiring of the dead also protects us in a far more significant way. Messages do come from the spirit realm, but their source is powerful creatures seeking to mis
lead mankind. The Bible identifies them as “WICKED SPIRIT FORCES”—Satan the Devil and disobedient angels known as demons. (Ephesians 6:12) When King Saul visited the spirit medium in En-dor, it was a demon that impersonated the dead prophet Samuel.
As illustrated in the case of Saul, the demons have nothing beneficial to convey, and their supposed help is short-lived. Like their ruler, the Devil, they are liars. (Mark 3:22; John 8:44) In this regard, the late British psychic researcher Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote: “We have, unhappily, to deal with absolute cold-blooded lying on the part of wicked or mischievous intelligences. Every one who has investigated the matter has, I suppose, met with examples of wilful deception which occasionally are mixed up with good and true communications.” (The New Revelation, page 72)With whom are those who endeavor to speak with the dead actually communicating?
The truth about the condition of the dead is clearly stated in the Bible. But who tried to deceive the first human pair about death? Satan contradicted God’s warning that disobedience would bring death. (Gen. 3:4; Rev. 12:9) In time, of course, it became obvious that humans did die as God said they would. Reasonably, then, WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR INVENTING THE IDEA THAT HUMANS REALLY DO NOT DIE but that some spirit part of man survives the death of the body? Such a deception fits Satan the Devil, whom Jesus described as “the father of the lie.” (John 8:44; see also 2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10.) Belief that the dead are really alive in another realm and that we can communicate with them has not benefited mankind. On the contrary, REVELATION 18:23 SAYS THAT, BY MEANS OF THE SPIRITISTIC PRACTICES OF BABYLON THE GREAT, “ALL THE NATIONS WERE MISLED.” The spiritistic practice of ‘talking with the dead’ is actually a fraudulent deception that can put people in contact with the demons and often leads to a person’s hearing unwanted voices and being harassed by those wicked spirits.CONSULTING A SPIRIT MEDIUM and inquiring of the dead are LINKED WITH FORTELLING EVENTS. (Deut 18:11)
The only mention in the Christian Greek Scriptures of demonic predicting of the future is the instance in which the apostle Paul, in the city of Philippi, freed “a certain servant girl with a spirit, a DEMON OF DIVINATION.” She had furnished her masters with much gain “by practicing the art of prediction.” Manifesting the fact that such practice is truly demonic and diametrically opposed to God, the masters of the girl from whom the demon was cast out caused Paul much trouble in Philippi, bringing Paul and his companion Silas before the magistrates, who gave the command to beat them and then threw them into jail.—Ac 16:12, 16-24.
SUCH THINGS ARE NOT FROM GOD, but from Satan.David
I should state that the following was in responce to Heiscoming's statemtents:
Quote Dear David, shall we do the doctrine dance. This is your chance to prove your religion? I have to warn you thou, I am starting out with 1 Samuel 28. This debate will be if the soul ceases to exist as proclaimed by the Jehovah witnesses or if when a man dies, his soul goes to heaven or hell as according to God's Holy Word. Now, David, I don't want to hear not garbage about this not really being Samuel that was called from the dead, because scripture plainly states it was him. And this is only the beginning. I have much more.
Scripture also plainly states that Jehovah is “a Rock,” that he is “a crage.” But God also gave us the power of reason and he wants us to use it. And he definitely wants us to use the Bible as a whole and not just look at one scripture and start to believe that Jehovah is a rock. After all, the Bible says so. (ps 18:31; 95:1) But it also tells us that he is “a spirit.” Do these two scriptural thoughts disagree with each other. Not when we use the power of reason.
I'd also like to say that it's not really honest argumentation by stating that my belief is “garbage” before I state it. I have scriptures to back up my beliefs. And the power of reason to use the scriptures.
david
Hi david,
You quoted Ps 18.1f
“I love You, O LORD, (A)my strength.”
2The LORD is (B)my rock and Âmy fortress and my (D)deliverer,
My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge;”
and Ps95.10
” 1O come, let us (A)sing for joy to the LORD,
Let us shout joyfully to (B)the rock of our salvation.
2Let us Âcome before His presence (D)with thanksgiving,
Let us shout joyfully to Him (E)with psalms.
3For the LORD is a (F)great God
And a great King (G)above all gods,”You must be accurate.
Both psalms qualify the word ROCK.
One says MY rock
the other the rock of MY salvation.They relate to ME not God
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