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The SPIRIT of GOD will only produce what GOD had in HIS perfect will when it is used in a surrendered vessel.
When we are obedient to the SPIRIT of GOD our minds are conformed to the WORD of GOD as it is expressed by HIS SPIRIT.
When the same spirit of GOD is received by the disobedient, it is conformed to what is in their mind, it becomes a perversion
of the WORD and does not reflect HIS will, rather it projects human will.
Power without character is satanic and produces a false Christ.
GOD's SPIRIT is the power HE gives for us to surrender to and be led by, yet some by the same SPIRIT can recieve blessings, then
by their own spirit turn around and pervert the WORD to a lie. (i.e. Balaam – the false prophet)
The mind of Christ was to obey the WORD of GOD even to death – total obedience, that is the character GOD is looking for and we are
to strive for.
The ability to achieve it this and thereby be the over comer is only attainable by HIS SPIRIT in obedience to the WORD.
IMOmalcom ferris….I some what disagree with you on what you have said in the above , You are presenting a case of obedience through a surrender vessel, as if this surrender is predicated on us. Like a person by himself surrenders and therefore is worthy to be saved. Fact is we are (CAUSED) to obey GOD, by GOD HIMSELF, our “surrendering” is a result of GRACE, of GOD, not something we ourselves have done. If that we the case we have somewhat to boast. Jesus put himself to death, thought the operation of GOD , He plainly said he could do nothing of himself. To have the mind of Christ is to have the same mind Christ had in him, GOD's mind through GOD's Spirit. Jesus said he that overcomes even (AS) i have. the question here is (how) did he overcome, was it by his own power to surrender to GOD, or By the GRACE of GOD that was in him.
One way places the surrendering on the man himself, while the other places it on the work of God causing a person to surrender. One gives credit to the man the other to GOD. Which is it to you?
peace……….gene
Hi Gene
Surrender as you say is not an act that one commits in an ideal situation.
Ideal here meaning we can do what we like (which the carnal man would consider Heaven I'm sure)
Surrender is a yielding to a greater power as you say.
We do not usually surrender to an enemy willingly.
We become the overcomer when we allow the spirit of the overcomer to preside in our lives.
Yet our will does come into play, we have the choice in wanting to yield and obey or insisting on refusing.
If it was simply a matter of GOD having HIS way then why wouldn't all be saved?
In the case of our surrendering to GOD, it is not as to an enemy, it is as a servant and in love.
As love slaves is how Paul put it.
Love cannot be a forced thing and be genuine, it takes two parties both willing…(IMO)Blessings
Malcolm … the carnal could never be will to surrender to God, “for the carnal mind is enmity with GOD, is not subject to the laws of GOD neither (CAN) be. Our surrendering to GOD is GOD caused, “for He (GOD) works in us to (BOTH) WILL and to do of HIS good Pleasure.” If God causes us to do His WILL then it (NOT US), doing it. Even the love you say can not be forced is given to us, “For the LOVE of God is shed around in our hearts, it's GOD'S love that He puts into us that causes our responses to Him. “for i will take out of you the stony heart and give you a heart of flesh and I (GOD) will write my laws in you inward parts and you shall be my people and I shall be your God”, where in this is our contribution toward our salvation at. Most can not stand the ABSOLUTE SOVEREIGNTY of GOD. Man is the receptor of God SAVING GRACE, and add nothing to the process “for you are saved by GRACE and that (NOT) of thyself , it (SALVATION) is a (GIFT) of GOD. We should not add or subtract from these words. God alone is the savior of all of man kind as does it in his own time and in his own power. You or I could not in a billion years save ourselves by any choices we would ever make on our own. IMO
GB,
You say
“Our surrendering to GOD is GOD caused, “for He (GOD) works in us to (BOTH) WILL and to do of HIS good Pleasure.”The second part is from a letter to the SAVED
Phil2
13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Phil1
1Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:God is not at work in those in whom He does not live.
He does not live in the heathen.
Context is importantQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 01 2008,09:38) Malcolm … the carnal could never be will to surrender to God, “for the carnal mind is enmity with GOD, is not subject to the laws of GOD neither (CAN) be. Our surrendering to GOD is GOD caused, “for He (GOD) works in us to (BOTH) WILL and to do of HIS good Pleasure.” If God causes us to do His WILL then it (NOT US), doing it. Even the love you say can not be forced is given to us, “For the LOVE of God is shed around in our hearts, it's GOD'S love that He puts into us that causes our responses to Him. “for i will take out of you the stony heart and give you a heart of flesh and I (GOD) will write my laws in you inward parts and you shall be my people and I shall be your God”, where in this is our contribution toward our salvation at. Most can not stand the ABSOLUTE SOVEREIGNTY of GOD. Man is the receptor of God SAVING GRACE, and add nothing to the process “for you are saved by GRACE and that (NOT) of thyself , it (SALVATION) is a (GIFT) of GOD. We should not add or subtract from these words. God alone is the savior of all of man kind as does it in his own time and in his own power. You or I could not in a billion years save ourselves by any choices we would ever make on our own. IMO
Amen to that post brother Gene,
I always like those words on God's sovereignity on our lives.Thanks and love to you
AdamIf GOD causes us against/despite our will to surrender – why then do all not surrender.
Is HE unable to cause all to surrender? or does HE choose to omit some from HIS plans? and if so why?
I agree we are saved by GRACE and GRACE alone, GOD truly is SOVEREIGN and does according to HIS own will and pleasure.
I believe it is part of HIS will and pleasure to give us free will. As I said before love is a two way street, it is pointless unless
both parties willingly reciprocate.
Don't get me wrong it takes GOD to initiate the whole process, none of us come to HIM or 'find' HIM, HE finds us.
He is Sovereign in the way HE provides for our salvation, there is no other way that will be accepted.
He is absolute in HIS commitment to the promises HE makes, and just as it is absolutely certain that if we accept HIS provided
way we will benefit.
It is as absolutely certain that if we reject HIS provided way we will suffer for it.
We love HIM because HE first loved us, if HE had not initiated it we could not love HIM.
IMOmalcom …………only the ELECT of GOD surrender, those he has predestined for this present age of salvation are , caused by His Spirit working in us to chose His ways and surrender our Wills. Malcom not all are now called or chosen, a time will come when they to will have their minds and hearts changed and the will be saved also. GOD success is not dependent on man kind. He saves man despite themselves this totally eliminates boasting, pride is then crushed . Malcom it really helps to understand Salvation is a (CREATION) man can not merit salvation, he is created unto salvation, it all and only a work of GOD the FATHER ALONE>Even our FAITH is given by the FATHER, The carnal mind is a (THIEF) it wants to steal glory from GOD by thinking by it FREE WILL choices it saves itself. There is NO SAVIOR but GOD ALONE. imo
peace to you and yours……………..gene
I accept that GOD has predestined HIS Elect,
these Elect are HIS chosen which HE cannot lose,
indeed will not lose, not even one of them.In this HE is absolutely sovereign I agree.
I do not see however how predestination interferes in any way with the fact that GOD gave man free will.
If no free will then what of Adam and Eve?
was this a forced act of GOD – to cause man to fall?
HE caused them to disobey?
Then is HE not the author of sin?Also what of Jesus in the garden who prayed “not my will but your will be done.”
If this was merely GOD having HIS own way and Jesus' submission was a mute point
why would GOD as a result highly exalt him?When Moses gave the children of Israel their ultimatum “choose this day who you will serve” why didn't he just come straight and say
“you don't have any choice really, GOD will save whom HE will and there is nothing you can or should do about it…I believe GOD requires us to acquiesce, HE calls but HE requires an answer,
how we answer is in our hands and our outcome is affected by that answer.True it is GOD in us that wills and works towards our own wellbeing and for our benefit.
That is – when GOD is received by us into our hearts in order for this to be enacted.In my opinion
Grace is what GOD does for us,
WORKS is what we do in appreciation.We cannot change our fate by a decision alone, GOD is sovereign in HIS chosing.
However we cannot be saved without making a choice.
Now if that is a forced affair then it is not choice,
language has lost its meaning and words become useless let alone the interpretation of them.True, we do not merit any part of God's act of grace towards us in saving us.
My point is that we are required to choose.
Our choice is not what merits our reward, it is merely an acceptance or rejection of it.
If we accept we receive if not we lose out.
If that choice is a sham then it is not a choice.Jn 3:17-19 says it well – we are condemned if we do not
believe on the name of the only begotten son of GOD.
How do we believe? do we believe? or is it GOD believing HIS own WORD in us?
By believing we are not doing any work of merit,
we are simply acknowledging our acceptance of HIS work of grace.Like I said
Grace is what GOD did for us
Works is what we do in appreciation
Its what GOD did for us that makes the difference though
IMOAgain you both are leaning on Mans works as a saving factor. While the Fruit of God's Spirit will be apparent in the life of a true Christan , the fruit is a work from the Spirit of GOD, Not from the mans (own self). “it is God who works in us (BOTH) to will and do of (HIS) good pleasure. WE are supposed to put (OURSELVES) to death remember, So how could a dead person produce anything himself. 1 Cor 15:10 …but by the grace of God I am what i am: and His Grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all. YET NOT I , BUT THE GRACE OF GOD WHICH WAS WITH ME. Nick you present the talent as if it's the persons own talent , when in fact it is not his talent , but the masters talent So what ever use that talent does it is the masters doing , the servant merely places it in the proper place to give an increase to the master, not himself.
Nick….prove it then show is where the talent belongs to the man then. He only had temporary custody of it, it lever belonged to the servants it belonged to the master, it was the masters money not theirs, or how could the master require something of them that was not his in the first place. The talent was never given to them, it was put in their custody. It's you who is misinterpreting scripture not me.
GB,
You misinterpret.
No man owns the gifts of GodMt25
20And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.21His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Quote Again you both are leaning on Mans works as a saving factor.
as a saving factor? I don't believe I said that Gene.
You may have understood it that way.
What I said was it was the Grace of GOD alone that saves us.
Salvation (which is a gift) is not even available unless GOD by HIS Grace makes a way.
But even a gift can be refused. If we refuse the gift we do not affect in any way salvation.
We do not even affect GOD or HIS purpose. That grace is given to be received by the Elect
and refused by the rest. GOD foreknew this and we are predestined upon that basis.
IMO
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